Sh*T has hit the pan

[spice4life]

I don't feel that you got the point I (and others) were trying to make, at all. It's not about disagreeing with what you are saying, or "coddling" people. I'm sorry you see it that way, but it tells me you haven't ever been in such a situation and are not speaking from experience.

 

Anyway, let's please move on. Thanks.

 

Totally agree with this. Excellent post Tenacity!

 

No one can really say what is right or wrong until they walk down the road in that person's shoes. TheOW reached out and was told to get lost and now she is focusing her efforts where they should be - on her children. She knows herself well enough to know that if she did speak with the BS right away it would have turned confrontational and someone may have ended up getting hurt. She did the next best thing and that was saying she would talk and speak the truth when emotions calmed down. I don't see a problem with that at all. It's the best for everyone concerned in this situation. She also came completely clean with her husband and told him every last detail. She isn't backing down from her responsibility if she is willing to come completely clean with everyone involved. Remorse will happen when it happens and no one can tell another when that should be. Not much else she can do until emotions simmer down and people have had some time to process the initial shock.

Edited February 18, 2013 by spice4life

[spice4life]

I've never been an OW. I was married to a serial cheater though (cheated on three times). The way the OW acted made a HUGE difference in my pain and decisions. The first one merely hid (wish she would have told me, I could have walked before having a kid!) The second one apologized (I actually have NO resentment towards her, I LIKE her as a person!). I left after that, he came back apologizing and begging for a year (thought I owed it to my daughter like an idiot, because the first one didn't tell me, I thought it was a SINGLE lapse in judgment). The last one was a selfish, viscous, unapologetic pig! I walked, permanently.

 

Because that idiot never talked to me she doesn't know he STILL begs me, she doesn't know he still cheats, my kids HATE her, she is not accepted at all by my former in laws, and she has no idea he's secretly a bisexual who sleeps with transexuals!! Now she gets to live the hell I did, my best revenge was in letting her keep him. She could have saved herself if she merely owned up to what she did. I would have easily accepted and she could have learned what a liar he is.

 

So no, I'm not an OW, never will be. I know too well people willing to lie aren't worth getting involved with.

 

Sorry you had such a rough time in your situation. It doesn't really apply to TheOW's story though. She is willing to come clean when emotions simmer down and she can talk somewhat rationally and she has already come clean with her husband. She is facing her situation head on and taking responsibility. So she has some anger right now - that's just how she feels at the moment and at least she's honest about it.

[Spark1111]

Why is it hateful to point out that having an affair IS harmful to your children?

 

As a fellow mom I know the emotional trauma of having sick kids, as a divorcee I can relate to the pain of your life blowing up, etc.

 

But if OP is going to improve her or her children's lives than she needs to come to terms with how her actions aided in this. The longer she sits around cursing everybody the more she will alienate her husband and family, which will in turn effect her kids negatively even more!

 

Its clear OP doesn't want a divorce, and acting unapologetic/unremorseful is a HUGE reason for her husband to NOT forgive her. That won't hurt any of US, it will hurt HER. Again, "supporting" someone doesn't always mean playing their feelings, it sometimes means pointing out how they are screwing themselves over.

 

I agree with this. There is only a brief window of time to take the highroad, to exhibit integrity, to humbly be the better person....before it shuts and you, by reacting angrily and defensively, have just confirmed everyone's worst opinions of you.

 

Because of runaway emotions, which I understand, you forgot to show the very best you, you can be.

 

You only have one opportunity, usually, to make a favorable impression.

 

In life, we never get a second chance to do that.

[Spark1111]

Sorry you had such a rough time in your situation. It doesn't really apply to TheOW's story though. She is willing to come clean when emotions simmer down and she can talk somewhat rationally and she has already come clean with her husband. She is facing her situation head on and taking responsibility. So she has some anger right now - that's just how she feels at the moment and at least she's honest about it.

 

She may not get the second chance if she wants one. it may be too late. she may have already been written off.

 

that is what CAN happen when we don't control our personal feelings long enough or hard enough to assess a volatile situation and try to present our best, high road taking selves.

 

I'm not judging, just saying that opportunity may not present itself again; that ship may have sailed and now additional consequences, whether fair or unfair, seem to be appearing on the horizon.

 

The ripple effect....

[spice4life]

She may not get the second chance if she wants one. it may be too late. she may have already been written off.

 

that is what CAN happen when we don't control our personal feelings long enough or hard enough to assess a volatile situation and try to present our best, high road taking selves.

 

I'm not judging, just saying that opportunity may not present itself again; that ship may have sailed and now additional consequences, whether fair or unfair, seem to be appearing on the horizon.

 

The ripple effect....

 

I totally get what you are saying Spark and I don't disagree at all. The opportunity probably has passed and now she will have to deal the ripple effect.

[Spark1111]

This is pretty much the biggest differential we have in my opinion. I don't think someone has to screw up two families before they can figure out its wrong...

 

I think that's probably the biggest part for most people who haven't been an AP to swallow, they just can't get their heads around how anyone could seriously wonder about the morality of cheating. It should be painfully obvious why its a wrong thing to do.

 

love me, don't love me, then tell the truth and separate. live with your OW or OM....just be honest and truthful folks.

 

But if you don't think of how that act of infidelity and it's consequences will affect your children for the rest of their lives, then start reading.

[spice4life]

This is pretty much the biggest differential we have in my opinion. I don't think someone has to screw up two families before they can figure out its wrong...

 

I think that's probably the biggest part for most people who haven't been an AP to swallow, they just can't get their heads around how anyone could seriously wonder about the morality of cheating. It should be painfully obvious why its a wrong thing to do.

 

Yes, I too felt the same as you and never thought in a million years it would happen to me. It was a huge wake up call and I can honestly say that I used it as catalyst to deal with my inner demons once and for all. I've learned that you never know what life is going to throw at you and if you make a mistake and make a bad choice then it's your responsiblity to turn that around and learn from it. And that is the form of support I try to offer here. I know that people have the ability to change and make better healthier choices for themselves. Unfortunately, the pain an affair can cause a person also presents an opportunity for them to dig deep within themselves and start asking the hard questions of why THEY let this happen. If I see a person in the forum startng to ask those questions I try to support them in those discoveries because I've been there myself.

 

You may find that hard to understand and call it a cop-out and that's fine. I don't think helping someone dig deep to find answers is a cop-out at all. But that's just how I see it and understand why you may disagree. That's cool and your right.

[Tenacity]

This is pretty much the biggest differential we have in my opinion. I don't think someone has to screw up two families before they can figure out its wrong...

 

I think that's probably the biggest part for most people who haven't been an AP to swallow, they just can't get their heads around how anyone could seriously wonder about the morality of cheating. It should be painfully obvious why its a wrong thing to do.

 

After reading your background, I understand why you have the perspective that you do.

 

Life isn't always as black and white as it seems right now to you. There are situations, including mine, where the MM lied to the OW about the real situation and things weren't always as obvious as they should have been.

 

I still believe that OW are not necessarily bad people because they made bad choices. And I believe they can learn from bad choices. But it is clear that some people are just not willing to accept that.

 

Agree to disagree.

[Got it]

I recall the most humble thing the OP said was that her "husband deserves better". Outside of that its been mostly "f off" and screaming about how unfair it is that she is being treated in the way she garnished for herself... (I was actually relieved and saddened to see what she said about her husband. We all know here that the ONLY way reconciliation REALLY can work is if the WS first owns up to and is very apologetic for what they did as well as begin to atone).

 

As far as what the MM is surviving: how does anyone know? If his BW fully believed him she wouldn't have wanted to meet OP, but because OP didn't give her full disclosure immediately, she only helped MM in throwing herself under the bus! Many posters here told OP to not meet BW (in their tendency to coddle it was said she should worry about her own feelings first.) and then some of those same posters were shocked that BW after days of no contact told her to forget it!

 

By OP refusing to own up to BW, the ONLY information she now has is from her lying MM, and even MORE distrust/loathing for the OP (which may be her only hope for having any kind of truth in this scenario!) Now the OP will never have the satisfaction of doing the second best thing in this scenario: being honest and in doing such making herself look better, establishing trust with wounded parties, making up for at least some of the hurt she cause BW, and sticking it to that MM.

 

As a fellow self described "hot head", that crap is gonna smart a little for a while... Oh well, what's done is what's done, but at least she can start fixing her reputation in town for the sake of her kids and fixing her marriage too (which IS the best for those children).

 

How do you know? How do you know the full story here? Do you think that the OP has posted everything? Did you after each dday? Or were there elements, conversations, thought process that stayed in real life and never made it here?

 

How do you know the OP wants to reconcile? You continue to hammer on that but where have you seen any evidence that she wants to? How do you know the OP wouldn't answer the BW's questions? At what point in the last encounter do you think it was proposed? It doesn't sound like the BW came in curious for information but with a set idea. I disagree that the BW wouldn't have wanted to meet with the OP if she didn't have the answers. How do you know this? Can you speak for all BWs? Is it not possible that there is at least one, ONE, BW out there that will have an encounter with the AP with no questions posed but accusations and declarations to deliver?

 

And I think if you read other infidelity boards you will see the general consensus for BS is not to believe the AP. I am sorry but in what fantasy land does the OP build trust with the BS? In one or two encounters? Really? Or is that the BS, at best, will try and look for flaws in their own spouse's statements, at best do a story comparison and best walk away having two people will everything to lie over and a confused person in the middle trying to muddle through the potential lies.

 

The best thing for children is two healthy and happy parents, marital status is less important. Marriage beyond all costs is a foolish and futile endeavor.

[Heather1]

Yikes!! I haven't read through this whole thing, but tried to read most of your posts. This is what I'm most afraid of, so thanks for posting & being honest.

 

I think all of us w/ kids get the sick kids stress, plus the dday stress. Is there any way you can leave your kids w/ your mom & get away for a few days to clear your head & think of a better game plan then lashing out?? I have to admit, if this happened to my sister & the OW came into my work I would completely flip out too....& I'm in your shoes! Don't make things worse than they have to be.

[BetrayedH]

AtheistScholar is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Well said. The sooner we own up to our mistakes, the better.

[Tenacity]

AtheistScholar is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Well said. The sooner we own up to our mistakes, the better.

 

Of course that is true. No one disputed that at all.

 

Point again missed.

[spice4life]

AtheistScholar is quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. Well said. The sooner we own up to our mistakes, the better.

 

Tenacity is right, no one is disputing that at all. I personally don't see how TheOW is not owning up...she is. She didn't confront immediately due to her own fears that she might have gotten physical. She knows her emotional reactions better than the rest of us. Will she have to face bigger problems because she didn't? Yes.

[Owl]

I'm hoping that the OP has had some time and opportunity to calm down over the weekend.

 

Time to start acting, not reacting.

 

One way for her to deal with the pain of her current situation is to take positive action to control her own destiny. In this case, she needs to focus on taking action to ensuring that her and her children have a secure place to live, while proceeding with the seperation efforts that it appears that both her and her H seek.

 

Focus on implementing those changes...and that should help keep your mind off the negatives.

[TheOW]

I'm calm, I havent had time to reflect on much my little ones are finally on the mend and we are moving house (H kicked me out) which is understandable he wanted to take kids but was told "over my dead body" so we are busy packing things up and waiting to move into new accomodation.

 

New beginning and all

[Summer Breeze]

I'm calm, I havent had time to reflect on much my little ones are finally on the mend and we are moving house (H kicked me out) which is understandable he wanted to take kids but was told "over my dead body" so we are busy packing things up and waiting to move into new accomodation.

 

New beginning and all

 

I'm sorry it's come to this for you TOW but I'm glad you're looking at it that way -- new beginning. I hope you're taking care of yourself and that your kids are coping with things ok. It sounds like you have a healthy understanding of your Hs actions and your allowing him to do what he needs to heal. I'm sure some people won't see that as enough but I think for right now you're doing really well.

[TheOW]

Thanks SB

 

Yeah I am looking at it as new beginnings, ive been in a loveless/sexless marriage for so long and pretending to be someone im not I suddenly feel like i can breathe again.

 

I'm still in defensive mode and until i get out this stage i wont fully understand or come to terms with whats happened.

[Mint Sauce]

he wanted to take kids but was told "over my dead body" so we are busy packing things up and waiting to move into new accomodation.

New beginning and all

 

Wow...

 

I usually try to be diplomatic on here, but this just blows my mind. I can understand falling for someone else, I can understand an EMR, but the level of aggression and lack of compassion you display vis-a-vis your betrayed H (and towards the OW, but that's been discussed enough already) is so far out of my world that I'm fully perplexed....

 

A smiley after you just stated you took the kids away from your betrayed husband...

 

A humble position that is not.

[Summer Breeze]

Wow...

 

I usually try to be diplomatic on here, but this just blows my mind. I can understand falling for someone else, I can understand an EMR, but the level of aggression and lack of compassion you display vis-a-vis your betrayed H (and towards the OW, but that's been discussed enough already) is so far out of my world that I'm fully perplexed....

 

A smiley after you just stated you took the kids away from your betrayed husband...

 

A humble position that is not.

 

I disagree with you Mint Sauce. The smiley to me was about the new beginnings and trying to make the most of a really awful situation. As far as taking the kids I agree the OP. My kids would have been taken away from me over my dead body too.

[TheOW]

If I dont smile Mint I will fall apart and I cannot do that for my childrens benefit, what do you all want to hear ? that i cry myself to sleep everynight ? I do. I'm so disgusted with myself right now I cant even eat and when i do im sick, I feel so dirty and guilty at what i have done to my H. But i have to put my "i dont care" face on everyday otherwise my children will lose their mother.

[TheOW]

why do you even put yourself in such a mess?

 

you are married yourself?

so why would you mess with others husband.

 

if you have a issue you need to work on it with your husband.

 

be honest let him know what kind of woman you have been.

 

stop messing with people husband. if your marriage is a mess its your own fault.

dont take it on destroying other peoples marriage

 

 

The mess of my marriage was both mines and my husbands fault.

 

MM destroyed his own marriage, he could have walked away but he never.

[Summer Breeze]

Thanks SB

 

Yeah I am looking at it as new beginnings, ive been in a loveless/sexless marriage for so long and pretending to be someone im not I suddenly feel like i can breathe again.

 

I'm still in defensive mode and until i get out this stage i wont fully understand or come to terms with whats happened.

 

Take the posts here and use what's helpful for you. Listen to everything because there may be a day when some of the words will be effective and ring true for you but right now you protect your kids and you keep working on you.

[Mint Sauce]

If I dont smile Mint I will fall apart and I cannot do that for my childrens benefit, what do you all want to hear ? that i cry myself to sleep everynight ? I do. I'm so disgusted with myself right now I cant even eat and when i do im sick, I feel so dirty and guilty at what i have done to my H. But i have to put my "i dont care" face on everyday otherwise my children will lose their mother.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. You will find that people are more compassionate and understanding if you do express the feelings you describe above. But still, these are just words, not actions. I would have expected your H to offer you the possibility to have the kids 50% (or more) of the time, when you humbly asked for that. The "over my dead body" towards him sounds like unwarranted aggression.

[Mint Sauce]

My kids would have been taken away from me over my dead body too.

 

What a sexist view on parenthood. They are not yours to be taken away. Was your (ex)H not more than a sperm donor? (Don't know your story)

 

In today's society, the father has just as much right to his children, while both of you seem to suggest they are the primarily the mother's children.

[TheOW]

Thanks for clarifying that. You will find that people are more compassionate and understanding if you do express the feelings you describe above. But still, these are just words, not actions. I would have expected your H to offer you the possibility to have the kids 50% (or more) of the time, when you humbly asked for that. The "over my dead body" towards him sounds like unwarranted aggression.

 

No Mint he said he was taking them full stop, he works 10 hours a day and when i questioned him where they would go he said his sisters house .... thats when i said over my dead body, he can have them anytime he wants, i told him he can come round every night if he wants to, anytime he wants to see them he can, i will never stop him from seeing them.

 

I look after the kids from morning till dusk with little input from him, he comes home, gets his dinner then bed and at the weekends he spent little time with them because he wants some "peace" from working all week. I do appreciate how hard he works but sometimes I would have liked to be appreciated which i never was.

Edited February 19, 2013 by TheOW