Sh*T has hit the pan

[TheOW]

To clear up - MM wife was out on the street my husband answered the door, a this point I heard the screaming and shouting and went into the hall (we have a large hallway) she came barging through the door and my toddler was in her way (quarter way up the hall) she put her hand on her shoulder and shoved her out the way - I seen red and I went for her, at this point a neighbour came to investigate and both he and my husband stopped us before it got any worse.

 

I got a phone call from a friend last night who (the only one who has spoke to me) she said she was in the bar and MM and his wife were there too acting like nothing had happened his wife kept on kissing him but "supposidly" he looked very uncomfortable, all their friends were around them.

[Lostinlife4now]

To clear up - MM wife was out on the street my husband answered the door, a this point I heard the screaming and shouting and went into the hall (we have a large hallway) she came barging through the door and my toddler was in her way (quarter way up the hall) she put her hand on her shoulder and shoved her out the way - I seen red and I went for her, at this point a neighbour came to investigate and both he and my husband stopped us before it got any worse.

 

I got a phone call from a friend last night who (the only one who has spoke to me) she said she was in the bar and MM and his wife were there too acting like nothing had happened his wife kept on kissing him but "supposidly" he looked very uncomfortable, all their friends were around them.

 

Good Morning OW...

 

Yes, I would have seen red, black and blue if ANYONE ever touched my children. That's some of what Motherhood is all about! Protection. She is lucky your H was there...from the sounds of it if you are anything like me, I would be getting out of jail right about now. She needs to watch HER P'S & Q's. I don't care how upset she is....YA DON"T TOUCH A CHILD. No way, no how.

 

As far as her being in the bar....ha ha ha, does she understand how sad and ridiculous and desperate she looks? If I were in her shoes, he would be longgggggggggggggggggggggggg gone bye now. Don't let the outward fake facade bother you....we all know what it's really like at their house. Wartime.

 

Feel sorry for the BW though...no respect for herself. She needs to DUMP HIS ASS ASAP! Sorry, JMO....

 

You sound ok today! Am I right or wrong?

 

Love to you,

 

Lost......

[ComingInHot]

Ow how "nice" of your "friend" to offer such positive support by telling you how exMM & his Wife are out on a date making out like love crazed married people while your home w/sick heartbroken children w/a M.I.A. H who doesn't think he'll come back ever. (Not that you want him to).

 

I think you need to move & make New friends.

[ComingInHot]

Lost;

It wasn't "wartime" in my home. I was So sad and he was So sad and while I had two outbursts most of my time was spent weighing my options, getting educated on D's being happy for myself & children. H's time was spent humbly waiting for my decision, asking me if I would give him one more day then thanking me for one more day.

 

He was very affectionate in public. That never changed. It was never faked.

 

All I'm saying is there was never warring going on.

[promises]

Ow how "nice" of your "friend" to offer such positive support by telling you how exMM & his Wife are out on a date making out like love crazed married people while your home w/sick heartbroken children w/a M.I.A. H who doesn't think he'll come back ever. (Not that you want him to).

 

I think you need to move & make New friends.

 

 

I kind of think it was a good thing for her to hear that the xMM and W were out... puts it into perspective that they are not worth her time.

[Pierre]

If I were in her shoes, he would be longgggggggggggggggggggggggg gone bye now.

 

Are these the same OWs that take Bull$hit over and over again while they patiently wait for MM to leave the marriage? And then on d-day MM decides to work on the mrriage. Wishful thinking.

 

That is not how life works. Very few end the marriage on d=day. If they do the marriage was already over. This BW will need a couple of years to assimilate the affair. The affair may actually improve the marriage or end the marriage. But, that will take 2-3 years to develop. Most people cannot dissolve 25 years in an instant, there is a long process to do that.

 

Don't let the outward fake facade bother you....we all know what it's really like at their house. Wartime.

 

You are not there. They may be having hysterical bonding for all we know.

 

Feel sorry for the BW though...no respect for herself. She needs to DUMP HIS ASS ASAP! Sorry, JMO....

 

You sound ok today! Am I right or wrong?

 

Love to you,

 

Lost......

 

No respect for herself?????????????????? Are you kidding????????? How can you talk about respect??

[Pierre]

 

No, but it certainly does showcase that perhaps if the MM ever said she was self centered, or ignorant or rude or nasty or irrational or anything else that maybe he wasn't lying doesn't it?

 

I don't care who you are, I don't care what your motivation or how red you see, placing your hands on a toddler and shoving them out of the way because YOU WANT to is wrong, and unlike affairs, is actually a crime.

 

 

 

This is a festival of ethical fallacies.

 

1. "If it isn't illegal, it's ethical."

2. Bad or unethical behavior justifies, the current unethical behavior.

 

No. 1 is self explanatory.

 

No.2: That BW brushed by the kid does not justify the betrayal by MM which was done before he knew BW would pay a visit to TOW.

 

 

Fuzzy logic.

[LFH]

This is a festival of ethical fallacies.

 

1. "If it isn't illegal, it's ethical."

2. Bad or unethical behavior justifies, the current unethical behavior.

 

No. 1 is self explanatory.

 

No.2: That BW brushed by the kid does not justify the betrayal by MM which was done before he knew BW would pay a visit to TOW.

 

 

Fuzzy logic.

 

Nope. Not fuzzy logic.

 

EMA's are enacted by 2 consenting adults.

I never said it was ethical to have an affair.

 

I did say that NOTHING justifies placing your hands on a child, particularly one that is not yours, especially if you are so angry you are not in control of your behavior. Period.

 

And she didn't brush past, she touched that child with PURPOSE to move the child out of the way.

[Lostinlife4now]

It wasn't war time in my house either. I knew what my plan was and I was very calm in executing that plan.....like a viper.

 

 

I am glad to hear that bent....

 

But that's why God made APPLES and ORANGES....

 

Everyone reacts differently! Get my drift!

[Pierre]

Nope. Not fuzzy logic.

 

EMA's are enacted by 2 consenting adults.

I never said it was ethical to have an affair.

 

I did say that NOTHING justifies placing your hands on a child, particularly one that is not yours, especially if you are so angry you are not in control of your behavior. Period.

 

And she didn't brush past, she touched that child with PURPOSE to move the child out of the way.

 

It does not matter.

 

Lets say I have an affair with my neighbor MW. The H discovers the affair and then he goes to the post office and murders 40 people because he is in shock.

 

That he murdered 40 people does not justify my affair with his wife.

 

This is not rocket science.

 

Demonizing the BW does not change past actions. It is what it is.

 

 

You are using a very old debate technique that only works with those that use fuzzy logic.

 

 

Changing the subject:

 

debater is losing so he tries to redirect the attention of the audience to another subject area where he thinks he can look better relative to the person he is debating, but admits to no change of subject and pretends to be refuting the original on-subject statement of his opponent.

[Lostinlife4now]

MFH, I share your views on infidelity..I think it is utterly and completely wrong and selfish..but you are being cruel. There's no reason to kick someone when they're down. The OP is being punished fairly severely in her real life. She doesn't need you pouring salt in her wounds..she seems to know that she screwed up and she is paying for it dearly. Save your wrath for the ones who aren't sorry. Or better yet, for whomever is hurting you in your own life. You come off as unhealthily bitter and angry so I can only assume someone is abusing you and you are unable to direct your anger towards them, so you choose to take it out on total strangers online instead. LS does not have to be your own personal crusade.

 

I truly hope that you are getting help to deal with whatever it is that happened or is happening to you. Good luck.

 

 

Wow....sista...that was a mouthful!!!! Me like.....

 

I agree, why kick someone when they are down?

 

I do feel sorry for the OW....she made a terrible mistake, but no reason to throw stones at her now. She is doing that all my herself....

[Journee]

The children in this situation are going to be deeply impacted as it is. They do not need to be a party to being "moved" by a stranger in their own home. What a mess. These babes are in for some very significant life changes. Watching a stranger storm in after your mother had to be so scary and confusing. These are defining moments in a child's life. A snap shot of could play out generationaly in their future. Setting the stage for extremely unhealthy relationship building.

 

This should not be minimized simply because the child belongs to TOW. Are toddlers guilty by association these days? They will be impacted enough as is.

 

Unacceptable.

 

BW isn't some uncontrollable whirlwind that can blow around where she pleases. I was and am devastated but can keep hold of myself. My own children have seen too much as a result of my H's affair. It turns a home upside down. I was and am emotional and angry. Shoot I was the epitome of emotional. I was six months pregnant. My son watched me cry and writhe in hurt. He wiped my tears and hugged me. That is not the job of a two year old. I feel awful that he was witness to that. I can only imagine the pain and guilt OW will feel.

 

TOW is paying a high price. No one should be taxing her children anymore than they already will be....and for certain they will be.

[ComingInHot]

It's these last few comments that just tear me up inside?

 

No One (I rarely use all encompassing words!) But No One knows what will happen when, as the topic states, the Sh*t has hit the pan.

 

OW slinks off never heard of

OW struts arrogantly away not changing an un-empathic thing

OW stalks & harrasses WS/BS

OW _____________________ (insert one of many scenarios...)

 

Meanwhile the,

 

BS goes numb curls up in a ball and temporarily carted off to a "special place" w/special pills to get over shock

BS kicks WS to curb refusing to R

BS gives in to H's pleas for a second chance Refuses communication w/OW

BS goes off the hook and after OW/OM

BS____________________ (insert scenario here*)

 

I think from reading here, I've learned that when in an A whether as WS, OW/OM & BS, anything can happen and should be expected to happen .

 

Unfortantely there can be collateral damage that isn't considered as I think most people assume everyone else that isn't the WS,BS & AP are off limits. People cry foul when involving other innocents besides the BS when that happens but again, From the many stories I've read here including my own experience this should actually be expected.

:(

[Eggplant]

Kudos to you for restraint. I'd be in jail right now for how I would have reacted to that.

 

That would be very irresponsible as a mother to go to jail simply after somebody gave your child a push. You would be abandoning your child, which would be worse.

[promises]

Meanwhile the,

 

 

:(

 

 

 

you forgot:

 

BS gives in to H's pleas for a second chance and although WH claims he refuses communication w/OW, he still is or will again.

 

(Which is what I believe this WS will do.. just like my xMM does.)

[ComingInHot]

promises;

Good ____________ insert here scenario.

 

And isn't that SOOOOOO SAD?!?!?!!!

[TheOW]

I never asked anyone for sympathy actually so let's get that clear, I do feel remorse maybe not as much as you would like but tbh it's been pretty hectic and I honestly have not had time to reflect on things as yet .... And it will hit me, hard.

All I care about at the moment is nursing my toddlers out of their chest infections so yeah everyone can F off until they are better, they are the most important things to me.

 

If I'm honest with myself though I've blocked everything out its like I'm not even me anymore, no emotions, nothing ! I know what I've done but my mind won't accept it.

[ComingInHot]

Survival & defense mechanisms I think.

 

Been there too Ow.

[Got it]

((((((TheOW)))))))

[ThatJustHappened]

I never asked anyone for sympathy actually so let's get that clear, I do feel remorse maybe not as much as you would like but tbh it's been pretty hectic and I honestly have not had time to reflect on things as yet .... And it will hit me, hard.

All I care about at the moment is nursing my toddlers out of their chest infections so yeah everyone can F off until they are better, they are the most important things to me.

 

If I'm honest with myself though I've blocked everything out its like I'm not even me anymore, no emotions, nothing ! I know what I've done but my mind won't accept it.

 

I really hope your kids feel better soon.

[Pierre]

Hello TOW:

 

Hope you are doing well among the acrimonious remarks in your thread.

 

The good news is that this situation shall pass and time heals all wounds. Just hang tight and try to do your best.

 

The affair is water down the drain; it is gone and the past is the past.

 

The only thing that matters is what you do now. The past cannot be changed, but your future can be shaped by your actions. You are in control of your destiny and at this time you need heavy duty introspection. You need to practice something similar to cognitive behavioral therapy to avoid the same pitfalls. Otherwise the story repeats itself.

 

I had asked you before to seek counseling and you said your H controls the money and you could not come up with an excuse to ask for IC. This is your golden opportunity! Next time you chat with your H try to see if you could have IC. In fact your H may also benefit from this regardless of the outcome of your marriage.

 

Whatever people say to you is about them and their own issues. But, remember, whatever you did and will do is also about you and your own issues. Make the best out of this mess and reach for the stars!

[Tenacity]

Why is it hateful to point out that having an affair IS harmful to your children?

 

As a fellow mom I know the emotional trauma of having sick kids, as a divorcee I can relate to the pain of your life blowing up, etc.

 

But if OP is going to improve her or her children's lives than she needs to come to terms with how her actions aided in this. The longer she sits around cursing everybody the more she will alienate her husband and family, which will in turn effect her kids negatively even more!

 

Its clear OP doesn't want a divorce, and acting unapologetic/unremorseful is a HUGE reason for her husband to NOT forgive her. That won't hurt any of US, it will hurt HER. Again, "supporting" someone doesn't always mean playing their feelings, it sometimes means pointing out how they are screwing themselves over.

 

I don't disagree with any of this. I'm a fellow mom and a divorcee too, and can certainly relate to the pain of my life blowing up. The kids should be the first priority.

 

I'm sorry if offended you somehow - that's the feeling I get from your posts directed at me. None of mine were directed at you, so to be honest, I'm a little confused, but okay.

 

I think it was clear to most everyone else that I was not just referring to that one post by MFH, but to all her posts in general.

 

When I went through my YEARS of pain and almost being suicidal from the crap of the A I was in, I came here. Years ago, the first time. I wish I could express how much people here - not just OW but many, many BS's too - helped me. I wallowed in self-pity and pain for a very long time, and they saw through it and supported me. Over and over, because it took me a VERY long time to get over myself and my situation and my pain and start to build my life and self-confidence back up again.

 

Honestly, only now do I realize how hard that must have been to do for some people. Yet they did it.

 

If not for the people here, I truly don't know if I would still be walking around. The pain I was in - whether I 'deserved' it or not - was like nothing I can describe.

 

Being a decent person at heart, I worked through it. It took me a lot longer than it should have, but I was beaten down to a point below where I ever thought I could recover. Yes - because it was my fault. But the fact is that I was still there! And still had to get through it.

 

And again, being a decent person at heart, I know know how wrong it was to make the choices I did, and I know that it hurt innocent people. My ex-MM was a complete narcissistic, lying jerk to both of us, but I was guilty in hurting the BS. So am I guilty because it took me awhile to pry myself out of the extreme, suicidal level of depression, to see that?

 

Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. The proverbial sh*t has just hit the fan in this situation, emotions are raw, and a ton of things need to be sorted out. Much healing and thinking needs to be done. I don't understand why MFH - and you, it seems - think it should all happen overnight. None of this destruction happened overnight, did it?

[Got it]

Why is it hateful to point out that having an affair IS harmful to your children?

 

As a fellow mom I know the emotional trauma of having sick kids, as a divorcee I can relate to the pain of your life blowing up, etc.

 

But if OP is going to improve her or her children's lives than she needs to come to terms with how her actions aided in this. The longer she sits around cursing everybody the more she will alienate her husband and family, which will in turn effect her kids negatively even more!

 

Its clear OP doesn't want a divorce, and acting unapologetic/unremorseful is a HUGE reason for her husband to NOT forgive her. That won't hurt any of US, it will hurt HER. Again, "supporting" someone doesn't always mean playing their feelings, it sometimes means pointing out how they are screwing themselves over.

 

It is much more than just pointing that fact out. It has been beaten over her head and bludgeoned with it. The whole time she is saying she understands and well aware.

 

She is coming to terms with things but as any BS knows as well this doesn't happen in a day. For all parties of the triangle the impact after a dday takes months and years to fully absorb and understand and learn from. It has to be done in steps and can't be absorbed and learned all in a day. That is unrealistic.

 

I think her anger is directed at the unfairness of it hitting her more than MM. I think it is anger at herself, anger at him, and just anger at life. Whether or not anyone agrees or approves this is a normal part of the process.

 

I don't agree it is clear that she doesn't want to divorce, she hasn't said that and I think she is still trying to figure out what she wants. I think it is close to impossible for anyone to be hit with a dday and fully understand the emotional impact. Even if someone is looking to divorce, the emotional tidal wave makes inertia very plausible for the immediate future.

 

None of this is right or wrong, it is just the norm.

[Lostinlife4now]

Does she cut a break for the woman she has deeply hurt? The one who isn't even here to say so? Hmmmm

 

 

And you are doing it again! Relax....

 

While I am happy that you get your voice here at LS....but say something nice for a change. You might earn some credibility.

 

GIVE HER A CHANCE TO breathe.....

 

Like some of the other posters have stated...it takes, days, months, years for things to sort themselves out.

 

If I could I would tweak my nose and make it all better for everyone involved. Like...do you remember Bewitched? I don't know if you are old enough to remember her...but I am....(cough cough)

[Tenacity]

1) nothing I post here is truly personal. I'm on a tiny cell phone, most of the time I don't even look at the poster, rather read the sentiments and quote those and respond.

 

2) I find MFH's posts to be very direct, but I don't find them exceptionally rude. Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow, that doesn't mean who is feeding it to you is trying to poison you (speaking generally).

 

I've been reading around here for sometime and I noticed something to better convey what I mean. Obviously, I'm am atheist and the denial mechanism of the cheat reminds me of what I see with the religious. In the part when I have criticized a particular verse or dogma the religionists who reads it gets VERY sensitive and hurt, they internalize my commentary as a personal attack, but that's not MY fault, if the truth hurts than its because the person has made an ignorant stance part of their identity (I used to be religious, I know the mechanism). APs employ a similar mechanism (we all do on some level about something). They are so caught up in their BELIEF, not bothering to research the evidence, not able to let go of what they want long enough to analyze the reality) that when someone points out how they are being ignorant they scream the person is insulting them. That kind of defensive behavior doesn't aid growth, it becomes a hurdle...

 

3) I'm sure in many ways these APs are not entirely bad, just like fundamentalists are not entirely bad. But their failure to recognize how they are contributing to pain in this world has to be addressed if they are truly to stop it.

 

I think the way you and I if MFH are as people and the thickness of our skins or what we interpret as "support" is different. If I'm hurting myself I don't want people to coddle me, I want them to point out what I'm doing and suggest how to stop it.

 

The current OP is hurting herself, children, extended family, friends and spouse by coming off as a selfish, angry, I remorseful person. Who will tell her: "own up to the pain, be humble, apologize, work in atonement?" Because: "oh so sorry for you", or "oh that terrible BS pushed past your kid", or "poor OW get more punished than MM" is not addressing how she can fix this. It's coddling her ignorant position, making her LESS humble and apt to see how she is contributing to these issues.

 

I don't feel that you got the point I (and others) were trying to make, at all. It's not about disagreeing with what you are saying, or "coddling" people. I'm sorry you see it that way, but it tells me you haven't ever been in such a situation and are not speaking from experience.

 

Anyway, let's please move on. Thanks.