Sh*T has hit the pan

[Lostinlife4now]

It might be the world you live in. I don't understand this mindset of everyone is out for themselves. I guess that is the difference in the people one surrounds themselves with.

 

 

You are absolutely right bent....Gotta watch those people I surround myself with!

 

Thanks for the advice.

[Got it]

children are tangentially involved in what I do for a living now, and the latest research is the amount of acrimony in either the marriage or divorce that will have the greatest lifelong effect on them.

 

So as long as mom and dad are kind and respectful to each other ALWAYS in front of the children or within earshot of them, the kids will be fine.

 

Kids could give a hoot about how happy you are romantically, as long as you seem happy with mom or dad, whether married or divorced.

 

yes, fake it if you have to, for the mental health of your children.

 

But that is the crux of it, being able to do that day in and day out without cracks. I agree completely, if they had been happy it would have been different. My parents were never happy.

[skywriter]

But that is the crux of it, being able to do that day in and day out without cracks. I agree completely, if they had been happy it would have been different. My parents were never happy.

 

We, (all five kids), didn't even know my mother was unhappy, (adult info).

 

We never even knew growing up why my mother loaded all of us up and moved a hundred miles away.

 

She told us after we were grown and we asked. Her H was, would get paid at the end of the week, he'd stay out all weekend drinking and running around with women, and come home late Sunday with little to no paycheck left.

 

Mom worked a full time job and this is what paid the bills. So, she just made her mind up one day to leave.

 

She went and appled for jobs first, got a job, found a house and then while he was away having fun on the weekend she moved house.

[woinlove]

You will learn....that YOU have ONLY YOU to depend on.

 

I do not trust ANYONE at ALL! The older I get the more I do not trust and are very cynical of people. That is the World we live in. Everyone is out for themselves. Trust Me, I know what I speak of.

 

This is simply not true. I am surrounded by people who care about others, care about me, and who I know I can count on when I need them. They also know I care about them and that they can count on me. I think many others are in this situation as well.

 

Your statement is not true and I think it is the wrong message for TheOW. I think TheOW can be surrounded by people who love and care for her, but it doesn't just happen. It takes work to get there, but that work can start in small steps now. Perhaps in seeing all of the affair and its aftermath in a different light.

 

TheOW, it is sad that you were left alone without friends and family to lean on when the aftermath of your A came crashing down on you. But this can change. It does start with you though. While the aftermath of your A seems horrid and has caused a lot of pain for yourself and others, that doesn't mean that ultimately some positive cannot be the end result.

 

I'm struck by the fact that you had no one to lean on and your earlier comments before d-day: how you sought out this A, you said it was you who wanted the A from the start, you said you seduced xMM, you used your youth and attractiveness to keep him involved, your A was affecting your time with your children, you described how you felt no guilt for either BS, even how you wished for a d-day. I think these two are related. You were focussed on yourself and when you needed it, others did not focus positively on you.

 

You deserve people to focus on you, to support you when you need it, and they also deserve you to do the same for them. I think you can get to a place where you will be surrounded by love and support and people who care about others, by getting to that place yourself. It's a place that is worth working hard to get to.

[Coward]

Dear TheOW,

 

You probably don't want to hear this but you need to...First of all, by you "confessing" every detail to your husband.. every date, place, etc... you only transferred your guiltful feelings to him.. and basically selfishly relieved your mind, your conscience but put pain on to your husband. That was a dumb move. I don't advocate confessing every detail. It's absolutely unnecessary and very selfish. I'm not saying you shouldnt have admit to the affair, but to give details to either husband or wife is awful. You are not required to do this. I recommend you do some reading about affairs, by Dr. Joy Browne. And see what she has to say about "confessing".

 

What I get from most of this thread is your life is like a bad episode of Jerry Springer. Way too much drama and absolutely not a one of you acting like a responsible adult. You need to STOP. Stop with the communication with her especially. I think its totally sick that you're even communicating with her and that she is with you. What in the world does that accomplish other than you're getting off on it.. you have some power over her.. you were with her husband and you hold the answers.. She is getting off by thinking she is going to somehow feel like she was there with you both while you betrayed her.. she is thinking that if she knows every detail she can put herself there with you both and not feel like the betrayed spouse..WRONG. This will make her even worse in the end as she will never be able to heal from all those details.

 

Honey, it's time to grow up. This is about YOU. Not about MM or your H or the BS..or even your kids. Think about what YOU want and what you need. Your other man was just a bandaid that was put on a wound very deep within you. He's not going to heal you in the end.. neither is your husband. You have to find out what is going on with YOU and what you ultimately want. I say this with real compassion and genuine care. I wouldnt even have joined here but only to answer this thread which really struck a cord with me. I feel I can relate to you and what you are going through, but please please stop the drama. Be the adult and look within.

 

I wish you the very best!

xo

[Decorative]

Decorative, shockingly knowing my life a little better I can safely say I disagree. Do you not think that other things may share similar dynamics?

 

My childhood was not affected by infidelity. My childhood was affected by two people marrying while both on the rebound, by a father with mom issues and a KISA with a very bad temper and low self esteem, a mother with very low self esteem, a yo yo dieter, lifetime depression and victim mentality.

 

These two personalities and their partnership are my issues. The affair was just one of the many issues from it but the affair is not part and parcel for the issues. Can you even tell which parent had the affair?

 

I grew up in a household where two people could not get along, where one more than the other used the kids as sounding boards, and support and put them in the middle of fights, another parent with a hair trigger and many emotional triggers so every holiday was a blow up due to his lack of acknowledgement from his mother. Oh, and a parent who is an animal hoarder because they give unconditional love.

 

Trust me the affair was not the issue. I would actually have LOVED for the affair to be the issue as it is an event that doesn't mean the foundation is broken. Unfortunately with them not only was the foundation broken it was never in place to begin with.

 

Like most things affairs are not events of themselves. Like all other lovely family moments, it is the personalities involved that are the issue and the affair is a byproduct of it.

 

The affair is not the specific reason. The specific reason was the decided union of these two people who should never have been more than just a short term rebound and never should have partnered up to bring children into this world without extensive therapy first.

 

Of course there are other factors.

 

But there's no denying a dysfunctional home with an affair as a factor is a factor in your choices.

 

I'm sorry your childhood was rough. My mother was a piece of work growing up. She was loving towards my father and brother- but me, not as much.

 

It very much influenced certain parts of who I am- an overachiever, a perfectionist, and before the mess in my marriage- absolutely being the rock of everyone around me.

 

It's good to own and recognize the past. It's how you move forward in a healthy manner.

[awkward]

If you were a smoker, and your house caught on fire because of a stupid mistake such as falling asleep smoking, wouldn't you use the fire extinguisher to put it out? I doubt that you would pour gasoline on the fire. I use the word mistake as in, you knew it was dangerous and could happen, but you didn't think it would happen to you type mistake.

 

I get that you don't want others to see you weak. But right now your house is on fire. Your evacuating your kids. Grab the fire extinguisher. Call the Fire Department. Don't tell them to f*ck off. Tell them that you love them. That you did something stupid.

 

Transfer your prescriptions to another pharmacy. Protect your children.

 

If your husband decides to reconcile, will you tell him that you are ready to move on and divorce?

[Got it]

Of course there are other factors.

 

But there's no denying a dysfunctional home with an affair as a factor is a factor in your choices.

 

I'm sorry your childhood was rough. My mother was a piece of work growing up. She was loving towards my father and brother- but me, not as much.

 

It very much influenced certain parts of who I am- an overachiever, a perfectionist, and before the mess in my marriage- absolutely being the rock of everyone around me.

 

It's good to own and recognize the past. It's how you move forward in a healthy manner.

 

Decorative, the affair didn't. I am sorry to break it to you. Even my father didn't put a lot of stock in the affair. It just didn't warrant the level of impact that others may have felt in their situation. If you ask my dad, what hurt him the most was my mom's lack of support and caring of his interests and feelings. That is what he would tell you. Not the affair. Now maybe you are going to argue you know better than him and he just isn't recognizing it.

 

Why the need to continue to tell me I don't know my own family and myself better than you? You know so little about me/us and only through what has been posted through my words which are subjective at best and a very small microcosm of everything. Why the driving need to have to be right on this? What is that about?

[Owl]

So you believe that it's entirely, completely co-incidental that your father had an affair, and you had one later on in your life?

[Got it]

So you believe that it's entirely, completely co-incidental that your father had an affair, and you had one later on in your life?

 

Yes. And my father didn't have an affair. But nice gender assumption.

 

Like my earlier posts said I think the other issues were the bigger contributing factor than they had an affair, I had an affair. I can break down for you why I had one if you'd like. I know the good, the bad, and the ugly on it. I know "why". And I know the coping mechanisms for it.

 

The affair is not the issue. The affair is a byproduct of the real issues. Those issues are the reasons for the affairs. Though my reasoning for an affair is different than my mother's reasons but it was for different purposes.

[Owl]

Yes. And my father didn't have an affair. But nice gender assumption.

 

Like my earlier posts said I think the other issues were the bigger contributing factor than they had an affair, I had an affair. I can break down for you why I had one if you'd like. I know the good, the bad, and the ugly on it. I know "why". And I know the coping mechanisms for it.

 

The affair is not the issue. The affair is a byproduct of the real issues. Those issues are the reasons for the affairs. Though my reasoning for an affair is different than my mother's reasons but it was for different purposes.

 

No "gender assumption"...simply misread the previous posts. Reign it in a little bit.

 

OK...you think it's a coincidence. I'm not going to derail this thread any further on discussing your personal situation.

 

Most folks who have been on the other side of the coin will disagree with you strongly that the affair "is not the issue". Frankly, it BECOMES the issue at it's inception. It's a bigger, greater issue than whatever led to it. It needs to be dealt with first before any other issue can possibly be addressed...in the terms of reconciling a marriage at least.

[anne1707]

As someone whose parents divorced when I was in my teens, I have to say it was a tremendous relief when they finally split. Whilst they tried to struggle through an unhappy marriage, it made for an unhappy home.

 

My father had an affair and yes, both my brother and I stayed with him. He provided us with a far more stable, solid life than my mother could have (and not because of money and not because of evential alcoholism which was not a problem when these decisions were made). My father provided a loving yet disciplined household where we were actively encouraged with our studies and interests. My mother would not have been able to do that.

 

Hence to suggest that only the BS is capable of properly raising children is offensive and judgemental.

 

I shall now wait for someone to throw back in my face "well look what you did in your marriage....". Some of you will think that may be partly because of my childhood and whilst I don't disagree that my parents divorce and my father's affair caused a lot of pain, that absolutely never affected his ability to be a good parent. Those problems would have been there whether I stayed with my mother or my father.

 

It frustrates the hell out of me that there are so many armchair psychologists on this site who think they know best.

[Owl]

 

It frustrates the hell out of me that there are so many armchair psychologists on this site who think they know best.

 

Anne...that's all this site is here for. Any 'advice' or 'support' given on this site is specifically from that angle...my own included.

 

We all post based on our experiences, viewpoints, and opinions.

[anne1707]

Anne...that's all this site is here for. Any 'advice' or 'support' given on this site is specifically from that angle...my own included.

 

We all post based on our experiences, viewpoints, and opinions.

 

Owl

 

The majority of posters are great but there are just a few who think they are real experts and will try to analyse others when they have never met them and never spoken to them. Or those who are absolutely convinced that their way of thinking is the only way. That is what I object to. Those who say well all OW/WS do this/think this, etc. Those who say anybody in an affair is evil/damaged/not a good person.

 

Rant over (for now )

[wisernow]

As someone whose parents divorced when I was in my teens, I have to say it was a tremendous relief when they finally split. Whilst they tried to struggle through an unhappy marriage, it made for an unhappy home.

 

My father had an affair and yes, both my brother and I stayed with him. He provided us with a far more stable, solid life than my mother could have (and not because of money and not because of evential alcoholism which was not a problem when these decisions were made). My father provided a loving yet disciplined household where we were actively encouraged with our studies and interests. My mother would not have been able to do that.

 

Hence to suggest that only the BS is capable of properly raising children is offensive and judgemental.

 

I shall now wait for someone to throw back in my face "well look what you did in your marriage....". Some of you will think that may be partly because of my childhood and whilst I don't disagree that my parents divorce and my father's affair caused a lot of pain, that absolutely never affected his ability to be a good parent. Those problems would have been there whether I stayed with my mother or my father.

 

It frustrates the hell out of me that there are so many armchair psychologists on this site who think they know best.

 

I 100% agree.

 

Thing is, some people whose parents had affairs will cheat, some wont. Some people who came from a happily grounded family will cheat, some wont. I think it's human nature to want to put everyone in a box and try to explain things away. Sometimes (most times, maybe) people just make bad decisions because they want to. It needn't be so scientific.

 

And for the record, I came from an intact, happy family and (shocker) had an affair.

 

I don't need to spend years and $$ in therapy to try and assign my behavior choices to my parents or childhood. No, I take full responsibility for my choices. To me, this is a huge problem in our society. Not accepting responsibility for your actions and looking for some other reason, i.e., divorced parents, unhappy childhood, abusive husband/wife, etc. To me, its all psychobabble hooey.

[Finally Settled]

I 100% agree.

 

Thing is, some people whose parents had affairs will cheat, some wont. Some people who came from a happily grounded family will cheat, some wont. I think it's human nature to want to put everyone in a box and try to explain things away. Sometimes (most times, maybe) people just make bad decisions because they want to. It needn't be so scientific.

 

And for the record, I came from an intact, happy family and (shocker) had an affair.

 

I don't need to spend years and $$ in therapy to try and assign my behavior choices to my parents or childhood. No, I take full responsibility for my choices. To me, this is a huge problem in our society. Not accepting responsibility for your actions and looking for some other reason, i.e., divorced parents, unhappy childhood, abusive husband/wife, etc. To me, its all psychobabble hooey.

 

My grandfather was a physician, my father was a surgeon, and my mother was a nurse. I run several companies and have a portfolio of properties. My life was all about medicine and it didn't have any bearing on my choices for my life. My parents were never unfaithful and I was when I was older than I care to admit. My life and my choices.

 

I will not be so silly as to say no one follows the examples of their parents, but it would be equally silly for someone to say that everyone does.

[Decorative]

Owl

 

The majority of posters are great but there are just a few who think they are real experts and will try to analyse others when they have never met them and never spoken to them. Or those who are absolutely convinced that their way of thinking is the only way. That is what I object to. Those who say well all OW/WS do this/think this, etc. Those who say anybody in an affair is evil/damaged/not a good person.

 

Rant over (for now )

 

Take what resonates with you, and leave the rest.

 

That's all any of us can do.

 

And sometimes it helps to look at the things that really upset you- and figure out why that is.

 

I know there have been some posts that I initially reacted to with some degree of hostility- but the more I looked at them- I saw a different issue, a reason for my reaction, and it became an opportunity for growth.

 

And I am not sure it's so much armchair psychologists- as much as life experiences and different perspectives.

 

Again- take what you need, and leave the rest.

[Decorative]

I 100% agree.

 

Thing is, some people whose parents had affairs will cheat, some wont. Some people who came from a happily grounded family will cheat, some wont. I think it's human nature to want to put everyone in a box and try to explain things away. Sometimes (most times, maybe) people just make bad decisions because they want to. It needn't be so scientific.

 

And for the record, I came from an intact, happy family and (shocker) had an affair.

 

I don't need to spend years and $$ in therapy to try and assign my behavior choices to my parents or childhood. No, I take full responsibility for my choices. To me, this is a huge problem in our society. Not accepting responsibility for your actions and looking for some other reason, i.e., divorced parents, unhappy childhood, abusive husband/wife, etc. To me, its all psychobabble hooey.

 

Past harms and childhoods are never a reason to make choices to choose to harm someone else.

 

But I think healthy and whole people are able to look at their whole life- and understand causation- whether it be in childhood or elsewhere- and learn from it.

 

Otherwise- people just tend to repeat their mistakes.

 

I never suggest using the past as an excuse. But in my experience- to march forward in life- you have to strip it down and look hard at your past choices, to learn from what's gone wrong and truly press forward.

[BetrayedH]

TheOW,

 

I'm curious about how you will handle child custody. I don't think it was right that your H planned to just kick you out and keep the kids but I become equally disturbed by mothers that talk about being willing to give "access" and "visitation." The man has a right to equal "custody" of his children.

 

Are you working towards a 50/50 custody arrangement? I will admit that this is a touchy subject for me. I had to fight vigorously to get my wayward wife to agree to 50/50 custody. After what she had done, I was shocked that she would think I would be ok with losing my kids any more than 50% of the time and that I had to fight so hard to get to 50/50. I find it agitating that some women think they are the default choice and it's like they're doing their betrayed husbands a favor by letting them come over and see or visit with the kids.

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth (and I completely understand not being ok with your H and his sister having the kids full-time); I'm very curious about your perspective. If he wants 50/50 custody (not visitation), will you fight him on it?

[TheOW]

TheOW,

 

I'm curious about how you will handle child custody. I don't think it was right that your H planned to just kick you out and keep the kids but I become equally disturbed by mothers that talk about being willing to give "access" and "visitation." The man has a right to equal "custody" of his children.

 

Are you working towards a 50/50 custody arrangement? I will admit that this is a touchy subject for me. I had to fight vigorously to get my wayward wife to agree to 50/50 custody. After what she had done, I was shocked that she would think I would be ok with losing my kids any more than 50% of the time and that I had to fight so hard to get to 50/50. I find it agitating that some women think they are the default choice and it's like they're doing their betrayed husbands a favor by letting them come over and see or visit with the kids.

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth (and I completely understand not being ok with your H and his sister having the kids full-time); I'm very curious about your perspective. If he wants 50/50 custody (not visitation), will you fight him on it?

 

 

I would definitely not fight him for 50/50 with the kids no way they are his children as well and he is a good father and his family are also loving to them so I would never be wary of leaving them. I have told him already that anytime he wants them he can, wknds, holidays etc He could have them during the week also but he has work and it would not be beneficial for the kids to have to come to me at 6am each morning.

 

But if things change ie he re-marries or has a long term partner then yeah he can have them during the week on a complete 50/50 basis

Edited February 19, 2013 by TheOW

[BetrayedH]

I would definitely not fight him for 50/50 with the kids no way they are his children as well and he is a good father and his family are also loving to them so I would never be wary of leaving them. I have told him already that anytime he wants them he can, wknds, holidays etc He could have them during the week also but he has work and it would not be beneficial for the kids to have to come to me at 6am each morning.

 

But if things change ie he re-marries or has a long term partner then yeah he can have them during the week on a complete 50/50 basis

 

That's great to hear.

 

In my situation, I am off Fr/Sa and I have the kids Th/Fr/Sa (and alternating Wednesdays). So that leaves me with going to work a few minutes late on some Thursdays and maybe leaving work a little early on some Wednesdays and Thursdays. My exwife is off Sun/Mon so she has the kids Su/Mon/Tue (and those alternating Wednesdays). This also gives both of us a weekend day to spend with them. Sorry for all the detail; I just wanted to share an example of how two divorced people working FT can still do 50/50 custody. Since I pick up the kids from school on my days, I only see the ex once a week on Sundays when I drop them off. And the kids only go 3-4 days without seeing either parent. It only gets dicey in the summer when I might have to put them at a day care place a day or two a week while I'm at work. But once you factor in vacations and the like, I used day care only between 5-10 days last summer. I took a few odd Thursdays off just to eliminate the hassle.

 

Again, sorry for all the detail. I just found that by having the kids on my two days off, it meant that I only had to figure out 1-2 days a week to get to 50/50 and school (or family) can take up a lot of the slack.

 

I'm glad to hear such an amiable perspective from you on this and I hope you find a path that maximizes each parent's time with the children. Studies show that maximum/equal parental involvement from both sides is a big factor in raising healthy children after a divorce.

[Lostinlife4now]

You will learn....that YOU have ONLY YOU to depend on.

 

I do not trust ANYONE at ALL! The older I get the more I do not trust and are very cynical of people. That is the World we live in. Everyone is out for themselves. Trust Me, I know what I speak of.

 

I must reiterate this statement since everyone is falling all over it!

 

I have 7 girlfriends that I have known since the 1980's. We have been with each other through thick and thin...in sickness and health, so on and so on.... They are the only ones I trust. New people,,,,not so much!

 

Sorry for making everyone jump on that statement. Need to think before I type! Geez..........

[TheOW]

That's great to hear.

 

In my situation, I am off Fr/Sa and I have the kids Th/Fr/Sa (and alternating Wednesdays). So that leaves me with going to work a few minutes late on some Thursdays and maybe leaving work a little early on some Wednesdays and Thursdays. My exwife is off Sun/Mon so she has the kids Su/Mon/Tue (and those alternating Wednesdays). This also gives both of us a weekend day to spend with them. Sorry for all the detail; I just wanted to share an example of how two divorced people working FT can still do 50/50 custody. Since I pick up the kids from school on my days, I only see the ex once a week on Sundays when I drop them off. And the kids only go 3-4 days without seeing either parent. It only gets dicey in the summer when I might have to put them at a day care place a day or two a week while I'm at work. But once you factor in vacations and the like, I used day care only between 5-10 days last summer. I took a few odd Thursdays off just to eliminate the hassle.

 

Again, sorry for all the detail. I just found that by having the kids on my two days off, it meant that I only had to figure out 1-2 days a week to get to 50/50 and school (or family) can take up a lot of the slack.

 

I'm glad to hear such an amiable perspective from you on this and I hope you find a path that maximizes each parent's time with the children. Studies show that maximum/equal parental involvement from both sides is a big factor in raising healthy children after a divorce.

 

Thanks I like the detail it allows me to see how it can be done, my H works 5 days a week and some weekends, we live in same town and close by each other so dropping the kids off to each other is not a problem, at the moment i highly doubt they could stay over with him during the week but if he pushed for it and really wanted them to i wouldnt have a problem with it. But he knows as well as I that this most likely not visable for him and the kids but if other alternative came up i would be more than happy to accomodate, as i said they are his kids as well and as parents all decisions are and always will be joint ones.

[Lostinlife4now]

Thanks I like the detail it allows me to see how it can be done, my H works 5 days a week and some weekends, we live in same town and close by each other so dropping the kids off to each other is not a problem, at the moment i highly doubt they could stay over with him during the week but if he pushed for it and really wanted them to i wouldnt have a problem with it. But he knows as well as I that this most likely not visable for him and the kids but if other alternative came up i would be more than happy to accomodate, as i said they are his kids as well and as parents all decisions are and always will be joint ones.

 

OW

 

And husband having the kids gives you time to yourself. What we all need from time to time.

 

You WILL enjoy the time you have being alone and doing things for you.

It's not so bad.

[BetrayedH]

Thanks I like the detail it allows me to see how it can be done, my H works 5 days a week and some weekends, we live in same town and close by each other so dropping the kids off to each other is not a problem, at the moment i highly doubt they could stay over with him during the week but if he pushed for it and really wanted them to i wouldnt have a problem with it. But he knows as well as I that this most likely not visable for him and the kids but if other alternative came up i would be more than happy to accomodate, as i said they are his kids as well and as parents all decisions are and always will be joint ones.

 

What he wants will likely morph over time. First he moved out and left them with you, then he kicked you out and wanted them full time. Now he's probably good with you having them the majority of the time. But once he realizes that he pays more in child support the more that you have them, he'll probably change his tune and want 50/50. Once he has an attorney, he'll probably be advised to have them as often as possible (if he has a lot of custody prior to the divorce and it works, it sets a precedent in his favor).

 

I was kinda shocked that if my wife had managed to take the kids from me more than 50%, I would be paying her more money. It's kinda a double-whammy because you lose the kids AND you pay your ex to have them. Coming from the perspective of the BS, I wasn't having any of that. The more she fought, well, I lost any remaining respect I had for her at that point. As some would say, I saw red.