Sh*T has hit the pan

[TheOW]

No matter who chased who, unless you threw him down and raped he did what he did because he wanted to. You can't make anyone lust after you. HE has to feed those thoughts. HE has to think of you. HE has want to be with you. No one can make another do that. Own your shyt...let him own his shyt as well. Do not minimize his actions to his wife when/if you talk. It will do a disservice to her, her family and the ability to have an fighting chance at anything.

 

 

Thanks Bent

 

I wont minimise anything I will tell it like it was IF i ever speak to her, i wont take all the blame as you said he did have a choice.

 

Red: I do not want to reconcile with H and i cant pretend otherwise it will do no good and i will most likely end up back in another A, the pretending stops now i can control that.

[BetrayedH]

I am sure the betrayed wife must be thrilled that you two are all chatty and talking about when to get together. MM is really making a big effort to fix his marriage.

 

When does it stop? Apparently the recent drama wasn't quite enough.

[TheOW]

I am sure the betrayed wife must be thrilled that you two are all chatty and talking about when to get together. MM is really making a big effort to fix his marriage.

 

When does it stop? Apparently the recent drama wasn't quite enough.

 

I understand this point of view and would see it as you do if the roles were reversed but its something I feel must be done we say our piece then let go move forward in our lives. As i previously stated it wasnt just sex there was a genuine friendship there. But i will take advice that was given and not meet him in person as i agree this is not wise.

[Pierre]

I understand this point of view and would see it as you do if the roles were reversed but its something I feel must be done we say our piece then let go move forward in our lives. As i previously stated it wasnt just sex there was a genuine friendship there. But i will take advice that was given and not meet him in person as i agree this is not wise.

 

For the love of God!

 

Closure??????????

 

 

Closure is the most common "word" used by lovers that still have hope, or want to rekindle the affair.

 

Closure, is just another word for external validation. CLosure is just for the needy folks with low self esteem.

 

 

I predict you will be back in the affair very soon and this time the MM will conduct the affair in a truly underground mode. Is that what you ant for the future?

 

 

Your break up with MM needs no closure. It is what it is. You were having sex with the husband of another woman and this man does not intend to leave his wife. That is your closure. You need no more closure.

 

Instead of closure lets talk about another word: EMPATHY.

 

It is quite obvious you lack empathy. You saw the devastation of the BW with your own eyes and yet you want to meet with MM. That is the true definition of NO EMPATHY.

[BetrayedH]

I understand this point of view and would see it as you do if the roles were reversed but its something I feel must be done we say our piece then let go move forward in our lives. As i previously stated it wasnt just sex there was a genuine friendship there. But i will take advice that was given and not meet him in person as i agree this is not wise.

 

I appreciate your response and I'm not trying to beat you up here. I just see thread after thread, hundreds of them, of OW breaking their own vows of NC. It is ridiculously hard to maintain. There is always a reason (or more aptly, an excuse). The fact that there was friendship/an emotional connection IS the problem. And while the two of you continue contact trying to reach "closure," which is the ultimate excuse to continue breaking NC, there is a betrayed wife that is being disrespected at minimum and mostly liked lied to. What reason is good enough to keep doing that? I'd bet it's a selfish one.

 

I won't continue to harp on you about this but I hope you seriously consider what I've said. Shedding your emotional connection will be the hardest part of all of this and any contact doesn't help rid you of the connection; it sets you back to square one and keeps you in the middle of their marriage. At some point it just has to stop and no excuse is enough to make your resume.

 

Whatever you decide, I hope you find that life of honesty and integrity sooner rather than later.

[Pierre]

I appreciate your response and I'm not trying to beat you up here. I just see thread after thread, hundreds of them, of OW breaking their own vows of NC. It is ridiculously hard to maintain. There is always a reason (or more aptly, an excuse). The fact that there was friendship/an emotional connection IS the problem. And while the two of you continue contact trying to reach "closure," which is the ultimate excuse to continue breaking NC, there is a betrayed wife that is being disrespected at minimum and mostly liked lied to. What reason is good enough to keep doing that? I'd bet it's a selfish one.

 

I won't continue to harp on you about this but I hope you seriously consider what I've said. Shedding your emotional connection will be the hardest part of all of this and any contact doesn't help rid you of the connection; it sets you back to square one and keeps you in the middle of their marriage. At some point it just has to stop and no excuse is enough to make your resume.

 

Whatever you decide, I hope you find that life of honesty and integrity sooner rather than later.

 

Great post!

 

I have to agree. Finding a life of honesty and integrity is the best cure for low self esteem.

[spice4life]

For the love of God!

 

Closure??????????

 

 

Closure is the most common "word" used by lovers that still have hope, or want to rekindle the affair.

 

Closure, is just another word for external validation. CLosure is just for the needy folks with low self esteem.

 

 

I predict you will be back in the affair very soon and this time the MM will conduct the affair in a truly underground mode. Is that what you ant for the future?

 

 

Your break up with MM needs no closure. It is what it is. You were having sex with the husband of another woman and this man does not intend to leave his wife. That is your closure. You need no more closure.

 

Instead of closure lets talk about another word: EMPATHY.

 

It is quite obvious you lack empathy. You saw the devastation of the BW with your own eyes and yet you want to meet with MM. That is the true definition of NO EMPATHY.

 

Actually, I have to agree with Peirre and BetrayedH on this one. I totally get that you feel you need closure, but Peirre is right, your xMM reconciling with his wife is your closure. I know I know..you don't intend on continuing the affair. However, the friendship can't matter at this point because it is not something that can ever be...not now and in the future. It's done, his wife is BEYOND destroyed right now and speaking with him is only enabling his denial about the pain and devastation he has caused his FAMILY.

 

He is still in the affair fog and speaking with him is only going to keep him in the thick of it. If you TRULY care about him as a friend then you will do what is best for him and stay NC so he can begin healing his marriage. That family is devastated right now. You saw is wife's pain with your own eyes...she had no clue about the betrayal and thought they had the perfect family! You really need to think about that and quit being so non-chalon (sp?) About the other people who have been affected here. Peirre is right, you are lacking empathy right now.

 

I don't think you should speak with him at all. The affair was exposed, he is reconciling with his wife and you should stay clear so he can get out of the fog. What's done is done and now you have to put your own feelings aside and leave them be. It's just wrong on so many levels no matter how you try to rationalize it. And that is precisely what you're doing... ratonalizing it.

 

If I was faced with what you were faced with on d-day, there is

no way I would allow any contact what so ever. Seeing the devastation first hand would have been enough to shock me

back to reality! Quit thinking about youself and have some

empathy. Talking to him is showing that you don't care because if you did you would stay stricked NC...for him.

Edited February 23, 2013 by spice4life

[Summer Breeze]

Actually, I have to agree with Peirre and BetrayedH on this one. I totally get that you feel you need closure, but Peirre is right, your xMM reconciling with his wife is your closure. I know I know..you don't intend on continuing the affair. However, the friendship can't matter at this point because it is not something that can ever be...not now and in the future. It's done, his wife is BEYOND destroyed right now and speaking with him is only enabling his denial about the pain and devastation he has caused his FAMILY.

 

He is still in the affair fog and speaking with him is only going to keep him in the thick of it. If you TRULY care about him as a friend then you will do what is best for him and stay NC so he can begin healing his marriage. That family is devastated right now. You saw is wife's pain with your own eyes...she had no clue about the betrayal and thought they had the perfect family! You really need to think about that and quit being so non-chalon (sp?) About the other people who have been affected here. Peirre is right, you are lacking empathy right now.

 

I don't think you should speak with him at all. The affair was exposed, he is reconciling with his wife and you should stay clear so he can get out of the fog. What's done is done and now you have to put your own feelings aside and leave them be. It's just wrong on so many levels no matter how you try to rationalize it. And that is precisely what you're doing...you're ratonalizing it.

 

If I was faced with what you were faced with on d-day, there is no way I would allow any contact what so ever. Seeing the devastation first hand would have been enough to shock me back to reality! Quit thinking about youself and have some empathy. Talking to him is showing that you don't care because if you did you would stay stricked NC...for him.

 

I agree that she shouldn't see him for all the reasons listed but more for herself and her kids right now than anybody.

 

His BS should be what he's concerned about and he's out catting around trying to start things up again. That's what ticks me off more than anything. Everyone's all worried about his BS and how she's wanting to reconcile and how TOW should stay away so they can. But he's the one contacting her and trying to talk to her and apologizing.

 

TOW in a perfect world you should send her the message and let her know what HE is putting her up against. Rant over.

[spice4life]

Whoops! Meant to say "strict NC" not "stricked NC"...lol.

[2sunny]

There's not one single reason to talk with him - unless you - and he - intend to inflict more pain and doubt on your betrayed spouses.

 

The fact that he still called means he's STILL willing to totally disrespect his wife!

 

There's NOTHING that needs to be discussed- especially when his W finds out that you've been communicating further - it will only cause MORE pain!

[spice4life]

I agree that she shouldn't see him for all the reasons listed but more for herself and her kids right now than anybody.

 

His BS should be what he's concerned about and he's out catting around trying to start things up again. That's what ticks me off more than anything. Everyone's all worried about his BS and how she's wanting to reconcile and how TOW should stay away so they can. But he's the one contacting her and trying to talk to her and apologizing.

 

TOW in a perfect world you should send her the message and let her know what HE is putting her up against. Rant over.

 

I agree, he should not be contacting her and that's on him and is something his BS is going to have to deal with as they try to work on ther marriage. BUT, TheOW has the power of choice here and she can enforce strict NC if she wants to. I mean c'mon, she has read plenty of d-day stories both here and in infidelity forum, so she knows what the reality is. Allowing contact is only delaying recovery for all involved. He shouldn't be crying on her shoulder...he should be crying to his wife if he truly wants to stay. TheOW is out of the picture as she should be.

[spice4life]

There's not one single reason to talk with him - unless you - and he - intend to inflict more pain and doubt on your betrayed spouses.

 

The fact that he still called means he's STILL willing to totally disrespect his wife!

 

There's NOTHING that needs to be discussed- especially when his W finds out that you've been communicating further - it will only cause MORE pain!

 

As much as you want to deny it TOW, this is true. Speaking with him = more pain for someone else. that's the reality. There was a d-day, a wife and family have been hurt, your family as been hurt, so why heap more on top of it all?

[Spark1111]

I appreciate your response and I'm not trying to beat you up here. I just see thread after thread, hundreds of them, of OW breaking their own vows of NC. It is ridiculously hard to maintain. There is always a reason (or more aptly, an excuse). The fact that there was friendship/an emotional connection IS the problem. And while the two of you continue contact trying to reach "closure," which is the ultimate excuse to continue breaking NC, there is a betrayed wife that is being disrespected at minimum and mostly liked lied to. What reason is good enough to keep doing that? I'd bet it's a selfish one.

 

I won't continue to harp on you about this but I hope you seriously consider what I've said. Shedding your emotional connection will be the hardest part of all of this and any contact doesn't help rid you of the connection; it sets you back to square one and keeps you in the middle of their marriage. At some point it just has to stop and no excuse is enough to make your resume.

 

Whatever you decide, I hope you find that life of honesty and integrity sooner rather than later.

 

The OW.......ARE YOU CRAZY?

 

there hasn't been enough drama and heartache all around for you?

 

Do not talk. Do not meet. His BW finds out, you MAY not be safe. Are you sure this isn't a set up?

 

You are drinking the koolaid. You pursued. you seduced. Wow! he's looking better every text, call and meet up. you are surely singing his sanitized version of events, no? The one he is telling his wife? OMG!

 

Hhe wants to feel like less of a bad guy, period, now that your life has burst in flames.

 

OR, he wants you to supply proof to his wife that you were the pursuer.

 

Sure you are not being taped? Sure you are not STILL be manipulated by him?

 

Jeez...friend indeed.

[Summer Breeze]

I agree, he should not be contacting her and that's on him and is something his BS is going to have to deal with as they try to work on ther marriage. BUT, TheOW has the power of choice here and she can enforce strict NC if she wants to. I mean c'mon, she has read plenty of d-day stories both here and in infidelity forum, so she knows what the reality is. Allowing contact is only delaying recovery for all involved. He shouldn't be crying on her shoulder...he should be crying to his wife if he truly wants to stay. TheOW is out of the picture as she should be.

 

Don't know if you're doing the whole c'mon thing to me or not but I'm with you. I don't think she should even talk to him but it looks like she has her mind made up and I'd rather see her talk on the phone rather than meet him.

[spice4life]

Don't know if you're doing the whole c'mon thing to me or not but I'm with you. I don't think she should even talk to him but it looks like she has her mind made up and I'd rather see her talk on the phone rather than meet him.

 

I'm sorry, no that was directed at you. It was in general in light of the situation. I tried to edit and it wouldn't let me. So again, I apologize if it came off that way.

[Summer Breeze]

I'm sorry, no that was directed at you. It was in general in light of the situation. I tried to edit and it wouldn't let me. So again, I apologize if it came off that way.

 

No apologies needed. I'm with ya!

[Lostinlife4now]

I agree, he should not be contacting her and that's on him and is something his BS is going to have to deal with as they try to work on ther marriage. BUT, TheOW has the power of choice here and she can enforce strict NC if she wants to. I mean c'mon, she has read plenty of d-day stories both here and in infidelity forum, so she knows what the reality is. Allowing contact is only delaying recovery for all involved. He shouldn't be crying on her shoulder...he should be crying to his wife if he truly wants to stay. TheOW is out of the picture as she should be.

 

 

So agree with this spice.....

 

But this is all a process! A thinking, and thinking and talking process and going back and forth emotional process.

 

I don't know OW....but I think ONE phone call to talk to him and speak your PEACE and PIECE..... and THEN BE DONE!

 

I agree also to let his wife know of the phone call. You need to CYA (cover your arse). She sounds like she could go off the deep end if she finds out that you two have spoken.

 

Look, this is a tough situ for everyone involved.

 

Just go slow and THINK THINK THINK......

 

I wish I had someone in my life years ago to tell me to slow the eff down, and THINK!

 

Other peeps on the board....help me out here......

[BetrayedH]

I agree that she shouldn't see him for all the reasons listed but more for herself and her kids right now than anybody.

 

His BS should be what he's concerned about and he's out catting around trying to start things up again. That's what ticks me off more than anything. Everyone's all worried about his BS and how she's wanting to reconcile and how TOW should stay away so they can. But he's the one contacting her and trying to talk to her and apologizing.

 

TOW in a perfect world you should send her the message and let her know what HE is putting her up against. Rant over.

 

If he was on here I would probably reach thru my iPhone to choke him.

[Pierre]

So agree with this spice.....

 

But this is all a process! A thinking, and thinking and talking process and going back and forth emotional process.

 

I don't know OW....but I think ONE phone call to talk to him and speak your PEACE and PIECE..... and THEN BE DONE!

 

I agree also to let his wife know of the phone call. You need to CYA (cover your arse). She sounds like she could go off the deep end if she finds out that you two have spoken.

 

Look, this is a tough situ for everyone involved.

 

Just go slow and THINK THINK THINK......

 

I wish I had someone in my life years ago to tell me to slow the eff down, and THINK!

 

Other peeps on the board....help me out here......

 

 

The issue is:

 

Any older guy may weaken when a 27 year old is actively trying to seduce him. TOW , has admitted she went after this man and now MM is in love with TOW in the affair bubble. We all know this love cannot survive outside the bubble. Affair bubble love is not the real deal, but the symptoms are similar to normal love.

 

And TOW is also in love, but for her there was hardly any bubble because she does not love her H at all. So it would be logical for TOW to continue pursuing this guy. Why? Because the make up of folks with extremely low self esteem and in need of external validation can turn them into addicts.

 

Addicts can screw their parents, siblings, and family tho get their fix. At this time TOW needs her fix and the injuries to the family of MM or to MM himself are meaningless. That is why many folks in affairs show lack of empathy.

[Lostinlife4now]

The issue is:

 

Any older guy may weaken when a 27 year old is actively trying to seduce him. TOW , has admitted she went after this man and now MM is in love with TOW in the affair bubble. We all know this love cannot survive outside the bubble. Affair bubble love is not the real deal, but the symptoms are similar to normal love.

 

And TOW is also in love, but for her there was hardly any bubble because she does not love her H at all. So it would be logical for TOW to continue pursuing this guy. Why? Because the make up of folks with extremely low self esteem and in need of external validation can turn them into addicts.

 

Addicts can screw their parents, siblings, and family tho get their fix. At this time TOW needs her fix and the injuries to the family of MM or to MM himself are meaningless. That is why many folks in affairs show lack of empathy.

 

 

Wow....did you just say a mouthful!

 

That was SPOT ON!!!

 

And to deal with an addiction.....Withdrawl.....in more ways than one.

[Fallen Petals]

xMM has text me this morning asking to meet up and "chat" And no i do not believe he wants to have sex etc etc I think he's vulnerable like me at the moment (I know I know it was this vuln erability that got us in this mess in the first place) I think we both need abit closure -No A will continue i am through with that, im starting to settle in our new accomodation and me and H have started to talk alittle.

 

I dont know what to do He's not a bad guy he doesnt deserve just to be ignored and it "may" be good for us to discuss what has happened and what we do from now on (as we live in same area)

 

I will repeat the A will never ever start up again I feel strong and in control of things for the first time in a very long time, think im starting to finally grow up.

 

Yes I think you are right, I will tell him what ever we have to say we can do it via phone and no need to meet up, I think we do need to discuss alot of things, he was a friend as well as a lover and the friendship will be the hardest to let go of but i understand that it has to go.

 

Ive got the story pretty much about what happened and how we were caught, his wifes closest friend seen us together and even took a picture, supposidly she had been suspicious for a very long time (the friend not the wife) she gave his wife the picture and thats when she came barging round to my house, she had text him while he was at work saying she knows and sent him the picture of us together.

 

OW...I have been in and out of this thread, I am sure there's a ton I have missed, but we're on a similar timeline for our Ddays so I thought it could help and some of it has.

 

Ok...so I'll share with you a couple of things from my recent experience. I wrote his W a letter of apology (I posted it on here too for comment). I meant what I said and owned my responsibility...it took me a little bit to get out of the fog of pain to be able to do it, and then I was determined to just move on and that's that. NC has been pretty good, he doesn't text or write or anything - he's working on his M...

 

Well he had a health issue crop up a couple weeks ago that he posted about on FB before unfriending me. So the following day after posting about it he called me to tell me he was unfriending me. I told him I would be issuing an apology to his W and then he told me he'd update me on the health issue because since I knew of it I would want to know the result (fairly serious condition and he'll need major surgery - can't turn off my emotions so of course I care). I figured he'd have the surgery in like a month and likely send me a note of update, so I said that'd be fine. Almost a week later I wrote to his wife and that was that. He called me two days ago after his visit with the specialist and told me when his surgery is. EVERY TIME WE COMMUNICATE SETS ME BACK. I cannot just turn off my feelings for him. My logic flies out the window and my heart bleeds for a few days until I am back on my feet!! There is no need for closure! I had all the closure I needed on Dday - I knew his most important life decision - it was not to be with ME. SOOOOOO, what I'm saying here is this - LIMIT any CLOSURE contact you have with OM. Even the strongest among us get pulled by the heartstrings for the men we gave a part of ourselves to...and until that is completely healed we are in no position to have much contact with them at all.

 

They are going through loss as well...he even said to me "if she had come home just 3 minutes earlier the last night we were together - you and I would still be together" and my response was this (I know it wasn't appropriate but it was truthful) "MM, I will always love you, but I NEVER wanted to win you by default. I deserve - any woman you're with deserves to be your first choice." and then he told me he had been telling his W how smart I am...

 

Oh, and he said to expect a response to my letter, says she's going to be kind in her response too. They're one interesting couple, that's for sure.

[TheOW]

WOW

 

Calm down, I only spoke with him for approximately 5 minutes then told him i had to go. It wasnt a closure as such just a goodbye and how are you coping/managing (think what you like on this) This wasn't about his W or my H it was about us. No more contact he has been told not to contact me again i am not interested. He is struggling with his thoughts and says he still loves me but he is very confused. I am not confused, no more seediness and no more lies, deceit.

 

Pierre, shut it! I do not want back into an A with him so you can take your words and shove them where it hurts!! I'm over the A I think I was over it a long time ago but needed a distraction from my H, I do not need this anymore and for the first time in a very long time I can see the light and happiness for my and my kids.

[Lostinlife4now]

WOW

 

Calm down, I only spoke with him for approximately 5 minutes then told him i had to go. It wasnt a closure as such just a goodbye and how are you coping/managing (think what you like on this) This wasn't about his W or my H it was about us. No more contact he has been told not to contact me again i am not interested. He is struggling with his thoughts and says he still loves me but he is very confused. I am not confused, no more seediness and no more lies, deceit.

 

Pierre, shut it! I do not want back into an A with him so you can take your words and shove them where it hurts!! I'm over the A I think I was over it a long time ago but needed a distraction from my H, I do not need this anymore and for the first time in a very long time I can see the light and happiness for my and my kids.

 

 

Good Girl!!!!!

 

Well you sound like you are together!

[Lostinlife4now]

Why shouldn't I be judgmental? She cheated, and not only that but she has jeopardised someone else's marriage in the process. And then she has the nerve to come here looking for sympathy. The help that she needs isn't sympathy, it's an earbashing. She needs to understand what she's done, instead of coming here looking for the "oh, you poor dear" treatment. She should do her husband a favour and divorce him, and not even think about trying to take a penny from him. She needs to be helped with the truth. She's an adult and must be treated like one. Adults should be held accountable for their actions, and in this case her actions are despicable. Her conscience needs to suffer before she can move on.

 

I hear you.....but.....She is getting a divorce. And the x should help with the kids....he was in that bed making those kids too!

 

And she does understand what she has done. She has moved out! She wasn't looking for poor dear treatment she was looking for some GOOD Advice. And the great people on this forum gave it to her...good or bad. And she is doing well today.

 

Even the wisest of adults make mistakes.

 

We all make mistakes, like I said, we are all human!

[tulip80]

Honestly...for people that know their relationship is over and have no intentions of staying with their S.O. (give it a few weeks before you REALLY make this decision because the hormones/emotions have a special way of clouding your logical thinking process) I say just make a clean cut. No reason to make the other person feel like less especially if you plan on leaving them, too.

 

That's just my take on it. You're leaving them anyway, don't wound the hell out of them because we all know most of our behavior was selfish. Unless there ARE many things husband did that he needs to improve on. I find many times that most of us actually have GOOD spouses and it's more of OUR problem than anything.