Journee Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'll be honest, I'm not sure this is a great time for me to reply to this particular post. But, I can't sleep and am feeling sassy. I believe in marriage deep ,deep down. On the surface I truly am disgusted by what my own marriage has come to be. I torture myself by reading forums about A's just hoping to gain some perspective. That I can be optimistic and that generally people are good. After visiting forums dedicated to both ends of the spectrum, nah. After DDay I know I will not be able experience my marriage without the tarnish and defilement of adultery. I pray my children will not continue to be touched by this. That neither of my babies call me one day in pain as a BS or AP. This is a pain that cynicism and loss of faith is built upon. Do I fantasize of a happier time? Everyday. Do I hope to have a strong and solid marriage? More than anything. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Sarabi Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 If I had my time over I wouldn't ever attend a wedding. Awwww but why ? Surely they are not all bad Are you married? If not...would you like to be? Link to post Share on other sites
waterwoman Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It's made me more sure about marriage. I don't see marriage as being about personal fulfillment - that is what the rest of your life is for. It's about emotional stablity and security. With luck you pick someone with whom you can feel contented and loved. And make a commitment to stick with them no matter what, barring abuse or total incompatibility. Marriage is the soil from which the rest of your life grows - it isn't the the flowers on the plant, it's the earth they grow from, so it has to be good and healthy. And children are plants that grow from that earth too. If H doesn't always make my heart flutter, I can live with it, if he doesn't make me feel loved and secure I can't. Hence why an affair ****s things up so very badly. But if we get through this the earth will be healthier than ever. Because it's been dug over and fed. But if too much disruption has damaged the roots the marriage will be over. How's that for an extended metaphor ? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 First off, Pierre's question on why gays want marriage, it is because they want the legal rights that come with it in the States. Many other countries recognize common law marriages so it is the legal rights without the religious union. If the US would allow common law to be on par with other countries then you would see far fewer marriages for both gay and straight unions. Many people want the rights that being married affords them just like many view the commitments of marriage in their non marriage unions (if the legal rights are not of interest to them). Each relationship has its own set of expectations and agreed upon "rules" that the parties specifically or tacitly agree to. OP - Do I believe in marriage? Sure! I am a glass half full kind of person so I can see when done right is is a beautiful thing. But it is really about the two parties in it and their actions ever day. As the saying goes, the pathway to hell is paved in good intentions. Having been in an affair, divorcing, etc. I have learned a lot more about marriage than I realized during the first go around. Like some others, I did not have a good example of a the proper workings of a marriage/partnership and so while I saw why people got married I didn't see the whole appeal. Even as young as 5th grade, when asked to write about us as adults, I never saw myself married. I saw a significant partner in my life, but I was financially and emotionally independent. I got married the first time because we had been together since teenagers and that is what we planned to do. I had many misgivings but didn't really look at them, even to the point that I remember walking down the aisle thinking divorce isn't that difficult. I truly wish I had taken a second to stop thinking of what I "should be doing" and ticking off the to do list and really think about what is best for me, for us, and what did I really want in my life; and how to face my fears. This go around, I see the full commitment that is necessary and no more of the "one foot out" syndrome that I have use for many emotional areas of my life. I am all feet in or all feet out but I have to commit and face the fear and exposure to being hurt. I cannot properly shield myself from it and be fully invested in the relationship. And this is one relationship where I want to be fully in. There are no areas where I feel lack, where I feel I am settling, where I am thinking it will be better in time. But while that is lovely, I have, and have been, working on myself and my emotional thought processing to make sure I am fair and present. What I have realized that while cheating was a very poor decision that was not the core issue. My core issue has been one foot out/always staying just a little detached so not to be hurt. Always looking to run, physically, emotionally or mentally. This served me well as a child but can no longer be my coping mechanism. So long answer short, yes I believe in it but I don't think I truly understood what it all entailed prior. It is a daunting and amazing commitment, one that I suspect many do not truly understand until hindsight. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 a gay friend of mine just married her long time live in girlfriend. they wanted to get married for the sane reason that straight people do...they love each other and place value on the symbolism of being married. They see it as the ultimate form of commitment you can make to anther human being... Those that often say marriage is just a meaningless piece of paper tend to refuse to get married. If the paper is meaningless why refuse marriage? For the record gays want marriage because they seek equality. Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 curious to know if any of your thoughts on marriage have changed since your affair? Not the marriages of the AP's, but your individual thoughts on marriage. My thoughts have definitely changed! Before the A, I thought M was an anachronistic institution based on property rights that serve the interests of capital through reproducing labour and initial socialisation of a tame workforce, and that it had no place in the modern world and should be actively dismantled couple by couple, and that It had absolutely no positive attributes and so I would never again make the mistake of participating in it. Since my A, I still recognise the first part, that M is an anachronistic institution based on property rights that serve the interests of capital through reproducing labour and initial socialisation of a tame workforce, but I now recognise that because of the investment by states and their governments in it, it can serve a purpose by enabling people who love each other to be together through providing the formal recognition of the seriousness of those people's commitment to each other. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 My thoughts have definitely changed! Before the A, I thought M was an anachronistic institution based on property rights that serve the interests of capital through reproducing labour and initial socialisation of a tame workforce, and that it had no place in the modern world and should be actively dismantled couple by couple, and that It had absolutely no positive attributes and so I would never again make the mistake of participating in it. Since my A, I still recognise the first part, that M is an anachronistic institution based on property rights that serve the interests of capital through reproducing labour and initial socialisation of a tame workforce, but I now recognise that because of the investment by states and their governments in it, it can serve a purpose by enabling people who love each other to be together through providing the formal recognition of the seriousness of those people's commitment to each other. I agree with Coco. I better get a brain MRI to make sure I am OK.:D 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 perhaps as a group, but in my friend's case, it had zero to do with equality and everything to do about loving each other and viewing marriage as a symbol of that commitment and love I have discussed this issue with gay friends. Some gays would reject the concept of domestic partnership even if it was virtually identical to marriage. Many are after the term "marriage". Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 For the record gays want marriage because they seek equality. FTR. "Gays" are not a monolithic group who all think or feel the same way about an issue, any more than "straights" are. Sorry for the t/j. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I love being married. I love my man. I love that we will grow old together taking care of each other. With the exception of almost two years -- yes, he cheated on me-- we have always been great together. we could never keep our hands off each other, even during the affair. I know I am one of the lucky ones. he is still jealous! marriage is hard work, especially when raising children together, but I wouldn't have missed this stage for the world: We have time for us again. we are traveling, exploring, dating. it has come full circle. I do not think I could ever replace what I have built, endured and enjoyed with him. So, I do not think I would marry again if he was no longer in my life. PS: Married men have more and better sex than their single counterparts and they live longer and healthier lives too. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 FTR. "Gays" are not a monolithic group who all think or feel the same way about an issue, any more than "straights" are. Sorry for the t/j. Coco, babe I said "some" not all. Link to post Share on other sites
Journee Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It can happen after Dday, I promise. Although I still struggle from time to time, my marriage is now stronger than ever. My husband said to me just yesterday that he feels that, even though we've always been deeply in love, that we're much more connected now. He's right. The marriage will forever have that small stain, but we've managed to come through one of the most painful experiences stronger than ever. I do believe that the traumatic time CAN make a couple and their marriage stronger if they both want it badly enough. My marriage is more beautiful now because of what we've gone through together. I pray that you can find that place of happiness again. Hugs to you! Thank you BOTR I think I just may need a break from this forum. The posts are disheartening at best. I need an eye exam. How could I not have seen people in their true form all of this time? I'm very happy for you in that your M is stronger than ever. I don't think that is in the cards for me as I'm not sure I am up to the task. I gave people too much credit. Live and learn. Link to post Share on other sites
veryhappy Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Coco, babe I said "some" not all. Pierre, careful...she's married. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Pierre, careful...she's married. :cool: Ha, ha! I like her logic because she does not rationalize a whole lot. :cool: You are a bit similar to her. Foot planted on the ground at all times and with the head on the shoulders. Link to post Share on other sites
Journee Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I understand...I have always looked for the best in people, too, but reading here has been an eye opener. And sometimes it just hurts, doesn't it? Feel free to PM me if you need to talk. It hurts more than I really had anticipated. Reading about active affairs .....bad idea. I may take you up on your offer ,rough couple of days. Thank you 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It hurts more than I really had anticipated. Reading about active affairs .....bad idea. I may take you up on your offer ,rough couple of days. Thank you PM me too if you want. I have lots of sage advice for you. take your LS break if need be....we all did that too! remember, you are NOT alone in any thought or feeling you may have. reach out...and we will help you...the best we can.:bunny: 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 :cool: Ha, ha! I like her logic because she does not rationalize a whole lot. :cool: You are a bit similar to her. Foot planted on the ground at all times and with the head on the shoulders. Forgive me for not knowing this....Are you married? happily so? Just adequately so? just so-so? At all? Ever been? now married? ....just asking.... Link to post Share on other sites
LFH Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 At rock bottom: All men think with their d*cks and all women want them to, as long as they are the beneficiary. When a perfectly fine marriage can be ripped apart by someone deliberately plotting to cross boundaries slowly but surely and take advantage of being taken as an innocent well intentioned person...then no, marriage is stuffed. Good people are screwed over by it. Bad people see it as an opportunity (from MP and OP in either case). And stupid people fall for that. If I had my time over I wouldn't ever attend a wedding. I'm gonna call bull on this. A perfectly fine marriage can't be ripped apart by anything. There is something wrong, even if it's in 1 person, but if one person is not happy, then it is not a perfectly fine marriage. They have tons of options and cheating probably isn't the right one, but it is NOT a perfectly fine marriage, even if that one person is the one who has checked out. Forgive me for not knowing this....Are you married? happily so? Just adequately so? just so-so? At all? Ever been? now married? ....just asking.... I'm not sure Pierre knows what real love feels like, or has ever deeply loved anyone with the type of committment that is often talked about on either side of the equation. I could be wrong, but from what I've read the answer would have to be no. I did see a reference to being married once though. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 I also feel like you can become set in your ways as you get older. I think that it gets more difficult to consciously make that decision to partner with someone else's life. I do 'want' to marry. I just feel like I haven't made that leap from independence to being vulnerable enough to make that kind of life change. Link to post Share on other sites
stevie_23 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 i'm gonna call bull on this. A perfectly fine marriage can't be ripped apart by anything. There is something wrong, even if it's in 1 person, but if one person is not happy, then it is not a perfectly fine marriage. They have tons of options and cheating probably isn't the right one, but it is not a perfectly fine marriage, even if that one person is the one who has checked out. agreement! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I'm not sure Pierre knows what real love feels like, or has ever deeply loved anyone with the type of committment that is often talked about on either side of the equation. I could be wrong, but from what I've read the answer would have to be no. I did see a reference to being married once though. Oops, I would love to hear your explanation of love. Please concentrate on the love OM feels for you and his wife. Do not concentrate on wanting to be loved as a form of love. I get it and it is not healthy. And to bring the issue of commitment in the part of the forum dedicated to bring support to those that lack commitment is a bit odd. However, I await your explanation. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Forgive me for not knowing this....Are you married? happily so? Just adequately so? just so-so? At all? Ever been? now married? ....just asking.... Happily married! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
stevie_23 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 In a way, it is not always a sign of a lack of commitment to have an affair. You don’t totally LACK of commitment, but rather, you have switched your commitment from your existing partner to your affair partner. Though in this sense, the term commitment means loyalty as opposed to any sense of obligation to be exclusively with that existing partner like you were before the affair. I’ve also read that commitment technically is completely independent of love in the strictest sense. You love someone, but that doesn’t mean you are committed to them. And if you are committed to someone, it doesn’t necessarily mean you love them. I think the terms love, need, commitment and loyalty get mixed up quite a lot and lose their true meaning. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 It's ok. We already know she thinks cheating is ok if it's real love. Like so many other things you claim to "know", this happens to be wrong, too. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Happily married! Really!?! Does she know how much time you spend on the computer discussing affairs? Does she think it is odd? 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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