Help, I want to understand my wife so I can love her better

[MassiveAtom]

I was talking with my wife last night about how she feels. We have a sordid past so it's too complex to detail here. For some background, read the thread entitled "I don't think I'm out of my mind..."

 

Here's what I want to do. I want to be able to hear her message through her words. I recognized a short circuit between her intent and my comprehension that I think is the cause of our problems communicating. (duh!)

 

What can I do to prepare for our exchanges so that I can hear HER message, and not the endless clamor of media bulllsnot, my friends' "advice." and my own predisposition to question and focus on literal meaning.

 

How do I focus the intense and lasting love I feel for her into empathy and patience.

 

Are there techniques around that help improve my Active listening skills?

 

anything for free.?

 

HELP!

 

Previously ready for divorce,

 

mA

[jmargel]

First, you two need to goto a good licensed marriage counselor. This board can offer advice, but you two need help communicating with each other.

 

When I try to help others out, the first thing I try to make them see is they have to deal with the 'Issues' not the 'Topics'. Try to look at it as a weed, just pulling the leaves off will just have it grow back (dealing with topics), pulling it out by the roots (dealing with issues) will solve the problems, and the topics from coming back.

 

For example, say your spouse is flirting with another guy, the problem you need to deal with, is not necessarily her flirting with the guy (the topic) but WHY she is doing this (the issue).

 

Good for you that you can say you have communication problems. Most arguements go about this way:

 

1) Woman complains to the husband he did something wrong, or hasn't done enough

 

2) Husband feels disappointed (which we hate!) so our first instinct is to tell her WHY she shouldn't feel this way.

 

3) Woman feels like her views are not validated and not understood, so she either withdrawls or an arguement starts

 

In my relationship I find I get alot further by first saying 'I understand how you feel or I know the way you feel is important', reassure her that she's being heard but then state my view non-threatening. Most of the time then, she is willing to listen and usually compromise.

 

Communicating better is not really 'talking' but 'listening'. Before spouting off, literally wait 10 seconds and THINK and put yourself in her shoes before saying what you want to. Do this while in every sort of disagreement.

 

Are there techniques around that help improve my Active listening skills?

 

Face her and maintain eye contact.

 

Be attentive yet relaxed.

 

Keep an open mind.

 

Listen to the words and try to picture what she is saying.

 

Don't interrupt and don't impose your "solutions."

 

Wait for her to pause to ask clarifying questions.

 

Ask questions only to ensure understanding of something that has been said (avoiding questions that disrupt her train of thought).

 

Try to feel what she is feeling.

 

Give her regular feedback, e.g., summarize, reflect feelings, or simply say "uh huh."

 

Pay attention to what isn't said -- to feelings, facial expressions, gestures, posture, and other nonverbal cues.

 

These might help you some, but a good marriage counselor will help 100 times more. Also never get too comfortable with your spouse that you take them for granted. You never know when they won't be around anymore. Enjoy each other, make the relationship seem like less work and more fun. Change things that can be changed and don't worry about the things you can't.

[rble618740]

I wrote this really long response on this thread yesterday and it didn't go through when I tried to send it. Being a very verbose woman (redundant, I know) it is probably best since what you're getting now is an abbreviated version of my lost post.

 

All of the advice you've gotten on this thread so far is excellent, I think. As a woman, if my husband did these things when I was talking, I'd feel very lucky. I'd suggest one more thing: Believe that your wife feels the way she says she does and don't make judgment calls on whether she should feel that way.

 

Things escalate and I become unreasonable sometimes when I argue with my husband because I feel like I have to convince him that I'm as hurt as I say I am and that my feelings are legitimate. He often thinks I shouldn't be upset about something because he wouldn't be upset about it. He also makes me feel like I'm being too sensitive or making a big deal out of nothing. For example, if he makes a comment to me that I don't like in front of friends, I'll bring it up the next day. He responds by defending the comment ("it's true" or "I didn't mean it like that, you're reading too much into it") or trying to make me feel like I shouldn't be upset about it ("If you said that to me I wouldn't care" or "You're being ridiculous, it's not that big of a deal"). Don't do that. I've threatened to leave my husband a few times during a heated argument over something small, not because I wanted to leave or thought that was a reasonable response, but I didn't know how else to show him that whatever we were talking about was important to me. I have felt before like I had to do something drastic to get his attention and have him hear that I'm hurt.

 

When your wife tells you something, don't counteract with all the things she does wrong, too. Don't belittle her feelings even if you don't understand them. Don't make her feel like she has to convince you that something you've done has hurt her or that she has the right to be hurt. The point is, whether you meant it or not and whether she's being too senstive or not, she's hurt. Deal with the hurt, not the blame. You can tell her you're sorry she's hurt even if you feel she's wrongfully placing the blame for that hurt on you. You can also tell her you understand where she's coming from or that you can see why she might feel the way she does. If my husband ever acknowledged that there was some validity to what I was saying, even if he didn't agree with the level of emotion I was putting into saying it, it would be amazing. I would feel disarmed and I wouldn't feel like I needed to attack or get emotional about it. If you don't acknowledge the hurt, she may drag you into an attack and defend situation where she attacks and you get upset trying to defend yourself. I've done this, unintentionally in the past, and have since realized that I was trying to hurt my husband so that he would feel the pain I was feeling. It probably sounds weird to a man and it's not something a woman necessarily consciously does, but I've done it myself and I've seen other women do it. He won't believe you're hurt so you show him what hurt feels like.

 

I am fascinated by the differences in ways that men and women communicate. I could talk about it forever. I've spent a lot of time analyzing the things I do that are uniquely female. If you have any specific questions about something your wife says or days about which you want a woman's opinion, I'll respond. I have a close male friend with whom I discuss the things my husband does that I don't understand, it's helped us immensely. In fact, sometimes my husband wants me to discuss something with my friend first so that I can talk to my husband with a better understanding of how he's going to view what I'm saying.

[Matilda]

Have you checked out marriagebuilders.com?

[Moose]

This is all good advice, I suggest <removed> and the five love languages. But I also think that you mustn't forget that sometimes you just really need to put your foot down on somethings. Dealing with situations like this does take a lot of listening, and talking.....but if my wife felt like she could flirt with other men and I'm not going to mind is bull!!! I would definitley put my foot down and tell her to stop!! We may wind up argueing about it for a time, but I wouldn't put up with it at all. Thankfully she already knows this and doesn't do it. Not because she wants to, but because she know it's inappropriate for a Married woman to do so.

 

So don't forget, when it comes to common sense situations, acting un becoming of a married woman, put your foot down, don't take it. You may be walking on a fine line when sticking up for yourself at that point, but I'm telling you.....she'll respect you more for your values if she has any desire of learning what a true marriage is.

[MassiveAtom]

Originally posted by Moose

This is all good advice, I suggest <removed> and the five love languages. But I also think that you mustn't forget that sometimes you just really need to put your foot down on somethings. Dealing with situations like this does take a lot of listening, and talking.....but if my wife felt like she could flirt with other men and I'm not going to mind is bull!!! I would definitley put my foot down and tell her to stop!! We may wind up argueing about it for a time, but I wouldn't put up with it at all. Thankfully she already knows this and doesn't do it. Not because she wants to, but because she know it's inappropriate for a Married woman to do so.

 

So don't forget, when it comes to common sense situations, acting un becoming of a married woman, put your foot down, don't take it. You may be walking on a fine line when sticking up for yourself at that point, but I'm telling you.....she'll respect you more for your values if she has any desire of learning what a true marriage is.

 

Moose, that was an example. There's no flirting going on. And besides, I couldn't forcefully stop her if she did. Well not legally anyway.

She's her own person.

 

Here's what's going on. In my last thread, "I don't think I'm out of my mind..." The resolution was one of reconciliation.

 

Since then, there's been a steady improvement in our communications. Somehow it's become effortless in many ways.

 

I'm enjoying every minute of the time we spend together, and oddlly suprising, every minute we spend apart.

 

She's the same way.

 

I think we reached a detent right now. I 'm well aware of all of the active listening techniques out there. Most are 101 but thanks.

 

I'm looking fr ways to nurture the close personal connection th "best friend" part right now, where I almost have her figured out, but not so much that she feels powerless. get my direction??

 

It's like being able to bend the spoon, and recognizing that there is no spoon. (pardon the matrix allusion)

 

mA

[jmargel]

You are way over-analyzing your relationship. Stop it! The way you are thinking, she is picking up on. She probably feels like a clinical case.

 

Be her friend, enjoy the good times together. Don't psychoanalyze her. Look at her the way you did when you two first started going out. Do the little things for her, keep her on her toes with surprises now and then.

 

I'm looking fr ways to nurture the close personal connection th "best friend" part right now, where I almost have her figured out, but not so much that she feels powerless. get my direction??

 

You want a textbook answer on this, and there isn't none. The personal close connection comes with being her friend in the best and worst of time. It comes when you surprise her by giving her a kiss while she's in the middle of a sentence. It comes when she knows you are there for her, always.

 

You seem to have an anxiety problem, worrying WAY too much. Thing is, the more your worry about something, you drive that worrisome to make it true.

 

Let her enjoy her space when you aren't around. When she's out don't question where she's been. Think of it as a gift, when she comes home or spends time with you, or shows you how much she loves you. Don't try to overpower her, psychologically to make her closer to you. Let it come naturally.

[Matilda]

Okay, I went back and read your previous post, and obviously have read this one, and maybe it's just me, but I'm still unclear as to what the problem really is. I think I agree with jmargel that you are overanalyzing the situation. And maybe you have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

 

Here are some random thoughts:

 

"Here's what I want to do. I want to be able to hear her message through her words. I recognized a short circuit between her intent and my comprehension that I think is the cause of our problems communicating. (duh!) "

 

I'm really not sure what you mean by this, but this is my thought. You say that there is a "short ciruit" between her intent and your comprehension. To me, that means she needs to explain things so you can understand them. Think about when you were in school, certain things the teacher said you understood immediately, other things someone else had to explain, or you read in your book, and then you understood them. I would say the way to resolve this is to use the old restate what you hear technique. Where she says something, and then you say, "This is what I hear you saying.....". The key with this, is that she should not get mad at you for simply not understanding what she is saying the first time she says it. Relationships are generally not that intuitive. Of course I see further in your next post down that you have written that you are well aware of active listening skills, but in your first post you say you want help in improving them, so I'm not sure if that advice is helpful or not.

 

"I'm looking fr ways to nurture the close personal connection th "best friend" part right now, where I almost have her figured out, but not so much that she feels powerless. get my direction?? "

 

You know, I really don't get your direction. I'm wondering if this is perhaps the problem your wife is having. That maybe your expecting her to know what you are thinking, and for you to know what she is thinking. That's not possible, no matter how much you love each other. I do think after so many years together, you can begin to predict one another's behavior, but I think you're striving for something that is impossible to achieve.

 

And again, feel free to tell me if I'm totally off base, because like I said in the beginning, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say.

[VivianLee]

jmargel touched on this in his last post (about over analyzing)....

 

Wanna get scared a little?? Guess what? Never a time in your life are you EVER going to 100% understand your wife!! God made us different for a good reason, it's just we try so hard to understand and get in each other's head to find happiness when we should realize that the differences is what attracted us and made the passion in the first place.

 

Of course, you are having problems, you do need counseling and you do need to learn to communicate but only to the point where you know her needs but you still won't master it. That's boring, predictable and frankly unsexy. (another reason I've never understood gay relationships...where is the mystery when you are both of the same sex??)

 

Relax some! I hope you aren't asking her "how do you feel" alot! That will drive someone to madness!! And don't base how you feel on how they feel...that's co-dependence and that will just cause more problems.

 

What about how you feel? What do you want?? It's a two-way street and you need to have those needs met just as much.

 

Remember when you were dating? You didn't even know her well enough to have an idea what she wanted but you did things that apparently worked because she married you. You are going to cause your marriage to be mechanical and you are going to get tired of trying so hard.

 

Simply, learn from your mistakes, don't repeat them and get what you want too out of this marriage. I have found out, marriage can actually be fun, not perfect or not always without trouble but it can be fulfilling and fun!!

 

Go have some fun!!

[MassiveAtom]

All of you guys have misunderstood the intent of this post.

 

1. This conscious effort to understand MYSELF so that I can structure my actions in the most healthy ways (training out the negative thought processes ingrained in me through childhood) is far from over-analysis. I imagine each of you figure I'm berating my wife constantly about our relationship. Truth is, She brings up this stuff all the time, I do a lot of active listening, she does very little. My favorite phrase, the one I hear myself saying almost continuously is, some variation of " If I understand you correctly , you're saying..." Believe me, this "analysis" is only done so I can fine tune MY actions toward her. You'd be surprised at the freedom, space and latitude my wife has. It's important for everyone in this type of forum, that we all realize that being judgemental is not worthwhile. I'm beginning to see where the limits are.

 

2. I DO NOT want a textbook answer, I am not a naive child.

 

3. No JM, I don't have an anxiety problem. How could you make such an observation from a handful of posts? This, the most positive of all of them. What you may be misreading as anxiety is my willingness to actually state the issues as I see them. Yes, I've been told I analyze things too much, but understand that was NEVER said to me by my partner. I strongly believe that conscious effort is the only way to understand the world around you. If you don't make the effort, you're walking around in the dark.

That is hardly a problem with anxiety. Merely a person who is awake.

 

4. Now JM, in another thread you told me to do a 180, and now you tell me to do exactly what I have always done. Inconsistency is surely a form of variety (the spice of life) but there's a lot to be said for continuity as well.

 

5. VIvian, This post was VERY positive. I was smiling inside when I wrote it. There was no desperation, no fear, definitely no ANXIETY. I was looking for experiences some of you have had that could help me to better cope with my marriage. There's nothing bad about coping. It's all good.

 

I guess if you don't post a problem topic people aren't sure how to react. Maybe I should've titled it "What do you do to get closer to your partner?"

 

Sheesh

 

mA

[MassiveAtom]

Originally posted by rble618740

I wrote this really long response on this thread yesterday and it didn't go through when I tried to send it. Being a very verbose woman (redundant, I know) it is probably best since what you're getting now is an abbreviated version of my lost post.

 

All of the advice you've gotten on this thread so far is excellent, I think. As a woman, if my husband did these things when I was talking, I'd feel very lucky. I'd suggest one more thing: Believe that your wife feels the way she says she does and don't make judgment calls on whether she should feel that way.

 

Things escalate and I become unreasonable sometimes when I argue with my husband because I feel like I have to convince him that I'm as hurt as I say I am and that my feelings are legitimate. He often thinks I shouldn't be upset about something because he wouldn't be upset about it. He also makes me feel like I'm being too sensitive or making a big deal out of nothing. For example, if he makes a comment to me that I don't like in front of friends, I'll bring it up the next day. He responds by defending the comment ("it's true" or "I didn't mean it like that, you're reading too much into it") or trying to make me feel like I shouldn't be upset about it ("If you said that to me I wouldn't care" or "You're being ridiculous, it's not that big of a deal"). Don't do that. I've threatened to leave my husband a few times during a heated argument over something small, not because I wanted to leave or thought that was a reasonable response, but I didn't know how else to show him that whatever we were talking about was important to me. I have felt before like I had to do something drastic to get his attention and have him hear that I'm hurt.

 

When your wife tells you something, don't counteract with all the things she does wrong, too. Don't belittle her feelings even if you don't understand them. Don't make her feel like she has to convince you that something you've done has hurt her or that she has the right to be hurt. The point is, whether you meant it or not and whether she's being too sensitive or not, she's hurt. Deal with the hurt, not the blame. You can tell her you're sorry she's hurt even if you feel she's wrongfully placing the blame for that hurt on you. You can also tell her you understand where she's coming from or that you can see why she might feel the way she does. If my husband ever acknowledged that there was some validity to what I was saying, even if he didn't agree with the level of emotion I was putting into saying it, it would be amazing. I would feel disarmed and I wouldn't feel like I needed to attack or get emotional about it. If you don't acknowledge the hurt, she may drag you into an attack and defend situation where she attacks and you get upset trying to defend yourself. I've done this, unintentionally in the past, and have since realized that I was trying to hurt my husband so that he would feel the pain I was feeling. It probably sounds weird to a man and it's not something a woman necessarily consciously does, but I've done it myself and I've seen other women do it. He won't believe you're hurt so you show him what hurt feels like.

 

THIS is what I'm talking about folks.

 

Experiences. Not rehashed Dr Phil.

 

Thanks rble. I like the concrete info that I can transpose to a variety of situations where I couldn't understand what I did wrong.. I hope in my next post I can adequately communicate the types of responses I need.

 

In your first paragraph, you talk about the irrational escalation of emotional tension during an argument, have you found a way that works to diffuse this upward spiral? I once tried a hug and holding on. It worked! and it totally diffused the situation. But later attempts have failed. Now, " Acknowledging the hurt," correct me if I'm wrong, but that's like saying, "Honey, I understand how you feel and that's completely valid. I did (x) and you feel (y) because of (z). I think we agree that neither of us want to feel that way . Can we try (a,b, or c) next time?" That actually sounds like something I wish I could hear more often. Someone valuing my emotions and reactions instead of telling ME how ridiculous my point of view is.

 

Everybody, I am the strongest proponent of active listening I know, my wife isn't. the short circuit I mentioned is when I ask for clarification by checking-in with her on meaning, I often get the same angry woman. It gets frustrating and I feel like I'm missing something. Heck, I KNOW I'm missing something. This thread was about trying to find out how I could improve so I could hear past the content, and just hear the message.

 

So, anyone?

[HokeyReligions]

What can I do to prepare for our exchanges so that I can hear HER message, and not the endless clamor of media bulllsnot, my friends' "advice." and my own predisposition to question and focus on literal meaning.

 

I didn't read all the responses, so pardon me if I'm repeating anyone!

 

Listen, Reword, Repeat

 

This is something I learned in counseling first, and later it was part of a psychology course I took. It works, and not just in romantic relationships, but in all communications, including at work.

 

-Select a topic

 

-Agree to talk in brief paragraphs about the topic (subtopics) and allow the other person time to respond.

-Listen to what the other person says and then repeat it back to them in your own words. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

-Don't start a sentence with an apology or condemnation or explanation.

 

-Do not react to what was said, just repeat back to the person what you heard them say, in your own words. If you can't put it in your own words, then you didn't understand what was said.

 

This accomplishes several things:

1. You are demonstrating that you are really listening to them and trying to understand them

2. It gives the other person an opportunity to say, yes - that is accurate, or no - it is not accurate and then (staying with that subtopic) allows them to rephrase what they are are trying to get across.

3. Repeating back to someone what you heard will help them to understand and restructure how they are communicating.

 

Continue with this, with each sub topic, and topic until you are both confident that you understand the other person and that they understand you. Make sure that you both know the boundaries and structure and have discussed this method of communication first. Trying it on your own by suddenly repeating back to them what you heard, and asking a bunch of questions can backfire! (I know this from experience)

 

Above all, be patient. This method takes practice and it takes time to get through a topic. Don't try to do too much at one time. But, with practice it gets easier and becomes a constant in communicating with others.

[MassiveAtom]

Nice clear and USABLE!!

 

Thanks.

 

Listen, Reword, Repeat. That's a good simple way to remember the technique.

 

Here's a question. What if one uses these but only finds anger and bitterness in return. I mean, wouldn't resentment build if only one person were doing this? How would one mitigategrowing ill-will toward another who just doesn't come around.

 

Maybe, I just figured it out, the other person would have no reason, other than just being mean, to continue being devisive. Sound right?

 

mA

[VivianLee]

Sorry I couldn't help, I guess I don't understand you!! LOLOLOL!! But that's okay, we aren't married!!

 

I don't know if I sounded like Dr. Phil because I've only watched him a few times....

[rble618740]

You seem interested in diffusing situations where the argument has escalated (or preventing such a situation). Here is my womanly, but very humble, advice.

 

1. Affirm and assert. If you are raising an issue with your wife, begin it by saying, "I love you and I am so committed to our marriage. It hurts my feelings though when you ________." It would be GREAT if your wife would also begin using that technique.

 

2. When she starts raising her voice, lower yours. I have found this technique works VERY well in all kinds of tense situations. At some point, the person who is screaming realizes they are the only one screaming and feels ridiculous. They are forced to calm down. Be careful not to appear condescending here, though. Don't talk to her like a child, just talk to her in a quieter slower voice. This will at least prevent a screaming match.

 

3. Some of this will require personal changes on your wife's part. You can't effectuate these, you don't have control over her. Part of why I used to get so upset about everything is that my happiness was wrapped up in my husband. We were newlyweds and I had this idea about how he should fawn over me, he had more friends in the area and thus did a lot of stuff without me, I concentrated on what he was doing wrong in our marriage. I really felt like I was unhappy because of his actions. I could not be upset without blaming him. I had to get out of that. There was no sense in focusing on what he was doing because I had no power over that and it only frustrated me. I have made a shift. I have decided that my happiness does not depend on his actions. I can be happy even when he's being inconsiderate. I attribute this new found happiness to a reestablished relationship with God. I know some people don't believe the way I do, but I think the principle will work whatever you believe. When I get upset, I give that hurt to God. That allows me a release OTHER than becoming an emotional wreck. If you are not religious folks, maybe a similar visualization of releasing the hurt to someone or letting it out of your body will provide a release that is more healthy than unloading on your spouse. Maybe I'm crazy. I don't know. I can only tell you what has worked for me.

 

Women can be very self-centered in relationships. Even GREAT women. It's all about what the man is doing for us, whether he deserves us, how unappreciative he is of us, etc. It is hard to have a loving relationship until the woman stands back and realizes that she has things to work on, as well. Relationships seem to go a lot smoother when each person is concentrated on improving their own weaknesses instead of pointing out their mate's problem areas. I know mine has. My husband moved out after only 9 months of marriage (in June). He left with no thoughts of returning. I did the things I have told you and he has been back home for three weeks now. Even in the midst of our separation we never had an argument. The day he left I got the advice I'm giving you from a preacher and started applying it immediately. The very next day my husband spent the day talking about what we needed to work on. He said he couldn't believe he was even talking with me because he had been convinced divorce was the only way he'd ever see peace. We don't have the perfect relationship. We've got such a long way to go. Someone has to take the first step. It sounds like it's going to be you.

 

Please feel free to ask any questions of me. I'm so happy to help when I can.

[MassiveAtom]

Hey Vivian,

 

I figure no one person can have all the answers. I was just a little takien aback by the sudden consensus that I have a problem with anxiety. That's just silly.

 

What's more, I've already tired of trying so hard, trying to make her happy. So I gave up. No I'm just concentrating on MY actions, and keeping control of MY emotions. That's all I CAN do.

 

Hope I offended no one.

 

Rble, Why aren't you somewhere my wife can find you? I wish she would hit these threads someday.

 

Somehow you have a good insight into her. She often seems to justify her actions with the "every other woman I talk to..." argument. I tell her "I don't care about ANY other woman's feeling in this case but yours. I want to talk about us. Not them "

 

I think I'll approach her with this tonight. We seem to getting along quite well lately. So I think I 'll bring this up now. Thanks for your wisdom. Like Vivian, who picked up my spirit at it lowest through a simple statement of compassion, I'm glad you're on the planet too.

 

Don't worry JM, I won't let my "anxiety" get the better of me.

 

Thanks

 

mA