Son is cheating

[2long]

You are elevating this to some huge life and death moral drama but it's really not. It's horny emotional hormone laden kids doing what they naturally do. Just like Archie, Betty and Veronica.

 

Except that Archie, Betty and Veronica didn't have premarital sex like kids do these days. Come 2 think of it, they've never had sex, since they never age.

 

-ol' 2long

[Got it]

Eleanor, would your husband be open to talking to him?

 

While my parents have stayed out of my romantic life they will talk to me in different degrees.

 

I can tell you when my mom expressed regret at my divorce, and made some choice comments I was very upset with her for awhile. I did not feel it was her place to not support me in this over my ex.

 

When my father found out about my affair he told me he was worried about me, disappointed but was open to discussing things and supported me. He reiterated he loved me and wanted me happy and was worried about me. He also talked some about being a BS and his thoughts on things. But he was calm, logical, and analytical which is what I like best.

 

If you don't feel you can discuss with him without fireworks (reminds me of my brother and my mom ) what if he heard from his dad?

 

I do know that after saying something one time my parents do stay quiet on it. But overall the worst thing I can hear from my parents is that not mad, just sad look and being told they are disappointed in me. Ouch.

 

But if I learned anything of my mom and my brother at that age, it may be best to just bite your tongue. He didn't start to really "hear" my mom until he got older and after he had his first child. Then he realized how valuable mom is.

[eleanorrigby]

Eleanor, would your husband be open to talking to him?

 

 

yes, my husband called home a little while ago and I told him what's up, he says he's going to talk to him.

I think that might work better then me talking to him because the two of us tend to get heated in conversations but he and his dad usually can keep things fairly calm.

[Snowflower]

Again, I have a son your son's age and he is very close-mouthed with me about his relationships/friendships. I can respect that. However, he is more open with his dad about things like that.

 

I think your H needs to try to talk to him. Sometimes guys will only hear things from other guys and this might be one of those times. Where is your H in all of this?

[Jabba]

I'm not making decisions for people, I'm giving my opinion about the situation, just like you are giving me yours.

 

OK then you gave your opinion and they both know what it is. It's their choice whether to accept it or not, right?

 

 

 

 

Yes I am reliving some things, but I'm making an effort to not be too emotional about it and I'm here asking for opinions and advice and I'm willing to hear anyone out and roll their ideas around in my head.

 

It's very simple, like everything else around here, it's about establishing appropriate boundaries. It sounds like you're having a lot of trouble establishing appropriate boundaries with your son and his various women.

 

If you really want to have an impact on his behavior, nagging him about cheating on his gfs is probably not going to be very effective.

 

It's pretty clear that there are some obvious things you can do not to make the situation any worse, i.e. by injecting yourself into conversations between him and his gf or the OG.

 

If someone asks you for advice, or opinion, then give it. If someone says something to YOU (not hearsay or third party) that YOU feel is offensive, call them out on it. If someone behaves in YOUR presence in an offensive way, (not something someone else told you about), then you need to do something about it.

 

That means your home can no longer be a haven for your son and the 18 yr old gf--because it's a dishonest relationship (according to you).

 

So your home has to be off limits to the 18 yr old gf--that is, if you mean what you say--you won't tolerate or encourage your son to cheat on her--because by encouraging them to maintain that relationship you are keeping her involved with a cheater, which you say you don't want for her.

 

If she calls you again you have to turn her away. She is just manipulating you anyway although you don't realize it. But you turn her away for her own good. "My son cheats on you, there's nothing more to be said, I think it best if you stay away from him entirely, he's no good for you. I wish I could help you but I can't. I've done everything I can. I'm not your mom. Please don't call here anymore. Find another boyfriend." (I guess you're problem is you've already told her something like this but she doesn't want to stop pursuing your son anyway?) Then if she keeps calling you hang up or screen the call. Tough love.

 

 

 

 

 

You are acting as if I ran off this morning half cocked and lost my sh*t on everyone.

 

You sounded like you are on the verge of disowning your son. Or maybe not? Maybe what you're doing is just continuing this dysfunctional cycle and you need it to keep going for some unhealthy reason? Why else would you actively intervene in this by actively calling the OG on your son's behalf? You are keeping this thing going in some ways.

 

 

 

I just talked to the girl twice today because she's upset and crying.

 

That's right. The more you talk with each the more upset you both get about this. It's mutually enabling and totally dysfunctional. You're not getting anywhere, you're just making it worse.

 

You're not her parent, you're not a therapist, and you are too emotionally involved to have an objective perspective. If there is a problem here then you are part of it not part of the solution. You need to step back and be very clear with this woman and your son that you are stepping back and why you are stepping back.

 

You must step back because you can't play this role and trying to play it is damaging to them and to you. It is beyond your pay grade.

 

You need to exercise some tough love on them and yourself. You need to stop being so emotionally self-indulgent under the guise of "helping." You're not helping.

 

 

 

 

I have not spoken to my son at all yet, so we are not fighting about this.

 

If we are talking about role modeling, then I don't think talking about your son's relationship with her behind his back is and basically having a mutual bitch-fest about him is either 1) honest or 2) fair.

 

Step back.

[eleanorrigby]

Again, I have a son your age and he is very close-mouthed with me about his relationships/friendships. I can respect that. However, he is more open with his dad about things like that.

 

I think your H needs to try to talk to him. Sometimes guys will only hear things from other guys and this might be one of those times. Where is your H in all of this?

 

He feels like I do, that our son is not doing right and it's a shame this girl is getting hurt.

[eleanorrigby]

That means your home can no longer be a haven for your son and the 18 yr old gf--because it's a dishonest relationship (according to you).

 

That's part of my plan, absolutely, I'm not allowing him to bring her or any other girl over here anymore.

[Jabba]

He feels like I do, that our son is not doing right and it's a shame this girl is getting hurt.

 

Wait a second...wait a second....your husband the man who cheated on you (wife/mother) is sitting in judgment on your son for cheating on what sounds like a rather casual adolescent puppy love gf?

 

Wow no wonder your son is acting all arrogant and defiant.

 

The first thing you should have told your husband when he opened his mouth in judgment of your son (not saying your son shouldn't be judged, just that your husband is the last one to be doing the judging) is "Now you keep your mouth shut. If you had kept your pecker in your pants maybe you wouldn't have raised a son who would do this in the first place!"

 

I'll bet you didn't say that though.

 

I'll bet you enabled by encouraging your husband to think he had any moral standing to sit in judgment of your son.

 

Like I said you're part of the problem. Sorry but it's true.

 

Unbelievable. Do you really think your husband gives a damn about these girls? Don't you realize in his depths of his mind your husband is smiling to himself thinking "That's my boy! Get that sweet side pussy! Be a player! Wish I was still young just like you!"

 

The mere fact that your husband would dare to come out with his sanctimonious crap in this particular situation is telling me that your husband is a complete hypocrite, still. And that he never really "changed" from the cheater he was (even if he never cheated again).

 

What your husband SHOULD have told you is "Honey I want to be supportive of you but given what I did I'm in no position to sit in judgment of Sonny Boy on this one. It would just be perceived by him as total hypocrisy on my part. All I am, is a bad example."

 

He didn't say that though did he?

[2long]

Take what you think you can use and leave the rest...

 

Wiser words have never been posted.

 

-ol' 2long

[Jabba]

That's part of my plan, absolutely, I'm not allowing him to bring her or any other girl over here anymore.

 

 

Sorry but this punishment doesn't quite fit the "crime" either. You're going overboard now.

 

You stated that you didn't want him to cheat on this particular girl who you say he owes it to, not to cheat on (even though she knows about it and has forgiven him and is still actively pursuing him). O.K. fine.

 

What does that have to do with him seeing other girls? Or bringing them to your home?

 

Nothing.

 

You are just being controlling.

 

You're still angry at your husband and taking it out on your son.

 

Your son didn't cheat on you.

[eleanorrigby]

Wait a second...wait a second....your husband the man who cheated on you (wife/mother) is sitting in judgment on your son for cheating on what sounds like a rather casual adolescent puppy love gf?

 

Wow no wonder your son is acting all arrogant and defiant.

 

The first thing you should have told your husband when he opened his mouth in judgment of your son (not saying your son shouldn't be judged, just that your husband is the last one to be doing the judging) is "Now you keep your mouth shut. If you had kept your pecker in your pants maybe you wouldn't have raised a son who would do this in the first place!"

 

I'll bet you didn't say that though.

 

I'll bet you enabled by encouraging your husband to think he had any moral standing to sit in judgment of your son.

 

Like I said you're part of the problem. Sorry but it's true.

 

Unbelievable. Do you really think your husband gives a damn about these girls? Don't you realize in his depths of his mind your husband is smiling to himself thinking "That's my boy! Get that sweet side pussy! Be a player! Wish I was still young just like you!"

 

The mere fact that your husband would dare to come out with his sanctimonious crap in this particular situation is telling me that your husband is a complete hypocrite, still. And that he never really "changed" from the cheater he was (even if he never cheated again).

 

What your husband SHOULD have told you is "Honey I want to be supportive of you but given what I did I'm in no position to sit in judgment of Sonny Boy on this one. It would just be perceived by him as total hypocrisy on my part. All I am, is a bad example."

 

He didn't say that though did he?

 

 

No, I didn't say that to him. I'm done beating on him for the cheating. I still have my residual pain to work through, but I'm done holding it over his head.

 

And I don't agree that he's the last person to sit in judgement, I think he's one the best person to sit in judgement of this behavior. Who better to judge the behavior then someone that was caught up in the same things?

[Jabba]

yes, my husband called home a little while ago and I told him what's up, he says he's going to talk to him.

I think that might work better then me talking to him because the two of us tend to get heated in conversations but he and his dad usually can keep things fairly calm.

 

Your husband is free to talk to him obviously, but I hope you realize what that conversation is going to be like:

 

"Son believe me I understand you want as much pussy and variety as possible and you are just young dumb and full of c*m.

 

However since you couldn't be discreet and your crazy girlfriend keeps calling here she and your mother are getting into it and it's triggering your mom like crazy.

 

Now I can't sit in judgment of you since I cheated on your mom. However you are not married to any of these girls, it was stupid of you to lie to this girl and mislead her, she is hassling your mom and it is causing problems for me because it reminds her of when I cheated. You need to dump this one and next time just pump and dump.

 

If you have to do this stuff please don't bring your sh*t to our house any longer, keep it on the down low.

 

By the way congratulations on nailing two broads at once. I am really proud of you."

[Jabba]

No, I didn't say that to him. I'm done beating on him for the cheating. I still have my residual pain to work through, but I'm done holding it over his head.

 

Right the pain is still there and now you're taking it out on your son.

 

It doesn't sound like you ever fully reconciled. That's sad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who better to judge the behavior then someone that was caught up in the same things?

 

So, if we want to have a murder trial, the judge should be a convicted murderer?

 

No I'm sorry, your husband doesn't have a microgram of moral authority in this situation. He is the LAST--dead last--person to "judge the behavior" of his "cheating son."

[eleanorrigby]

Sorry but this punishment doesn't quite fit the "crime" either. You're going overboard now.

 

You stated that you didn't want him to cheat on this particular girl who you say he owes it to, not to cheat on (even though she knows about it and has forgiven him and is still actively pursuing him). O.K. fine.

 

What does that have to do with him seeing other girls? Or bringing them to your home?

 

Nothing.

 

You are just being controlling.

 

You're still angry at your husband and taking it out on your son.

 

Your son didn't cheat on you.

 

lol sh*t I'm READY for my boy after talking to you today! He is a lot like you, relentless.

 

I don't care if he sees other girls, but he won't be bringing any new girlfriends to my house if this is how he treats them. I don't want to see it.

How is that controlling him? That is controlling my environment.

 

I know my son didn't cheat on me, I'm not personally hurt, I'm disappointed in him and I'm backing away from it.

 

Did you read my post where I said I advised the girl to talk to her mother (who knows nothing of the situation she says)? She says she's going to do this now, so how is me talking to her today a bad thing. I did exactly what some people on this thread advised, I supported her and encouraged her to seek better support then me.

 

I don't feel bad at all for talking to her today.

[eleanorrigby]

Your husband is free to talk to him obviously, but I hope you realize what that conversation is going to be like:

 

"Son believe me I understand you want as much pussy and variety as possible and you are just young dumb and full of c*m.

 

However since you couldn't be discreet and your crazy girlfriend keeps calling here she and your mother are getting into it and it's triggering your mom like crazy.

 

Now I can't sit in judgment of you since I cheated on your mom. However you are not married to any of these girls, it was stupid of you to lie to this girl and mislead her, she is hassling your mom and it is causing problems for me because it reminds her of when I cheated. You need to dump this one and next time just pump and dump.

 

If you have to do this stuff please don't bring your sh*t to our house any longer, keep it on the down low.

 

By the way congratulations on nailing two broads at once. I am really proud of you."

 

lol my husband sounds nothing like that!

[eleanorrigby]

Right the pain is still there and now you're taking it out on your son.

 

It doesn't sound like you ever fully reconciled. That's sad.

 

 

 

 

 

So, if we want to have a murder trial, the judge should be a convicted murderer?

 

No I'm sorry, your husband doesn't have a microgram of moral authority in this situation. He is the LAST--dead last--person to "judge the behavior" of his "cheating son."

 

I'm not taking it out on him. I still disagree.

 

And no, I wouldn't want a murderer to be the actual official judge a murder trial.

 

However if I was an alcoholic and going to an A.A. meeting I wouldn't want to be surrounded by teetotelars who have no idea what I'm going through.

 

However I wouldn't mind listening to people that have lived with alcoholics because they have some experience and perspective to offer that someone that doesn't touch the stuff and never lived with an alcoholic does not have.

[eleanorrigby]

I got a brick eleanorrigby if you need one to smash your right temple with.

 

Im not enjoying this, but I don't mind the extra perspective. I think I do need to go get my bong now tho lol

[Jabba]

lol my husband sounds nothing like that!

 

 

Not to YOU. Of course he would never say those things to YOU.

 

Without doubt your husband sounds like a complete hypocrite.

 

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[Jabba]

If this were a National Park, I'd hold up a sign saying "please don't feed the animals."

 

-ol' 2long

 

 

Did you bring your own lunch?

[eleanorrigby]

Not to YOU. Of course he would never say those things to YOU.

 

Without doubt your husband sounds like a complete hypocrite.

 

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

He wouldn't talk like that to anyone.

[Jabba]

lol sh*t I'm READY for my boy after talking to you today! He is a lot like you, relentless.

 

There's nothing for you to be "ready" for. This is all about you, it really has nothing to do with your son. You're just projecting all your issues with your marriage onto your son's juvenile relationships.

 

 

 

I don't care if he sees other girls, but he won't be bringing any new girlfriends to my house if this is how he treats them. I don't want to see it.

 

How he treats them is between him and the girl(s). What is it that you think you are going to "see," that you don't want to see, if he brings different girls to your house?

 

Again the issue has nothing to do with the girls. If he's a dishonest cheater and liar, he's a dishonest cheater and liar not just with girls, but as a core personality characteristic. So how do you intend to address that?

 

You're saying you're perfectly fine if he wants to lie to and cheat on his gfs as long as you play hear no evil see no evil speak no evil? As long as it's on his own time and you don't know about it?

 

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

(But ironically that's exactly what I proposed the hypothetical conversation your husband would have with him--"just keep it out of the house." So I guess I was right.)

 

 

 

How is that controlling him? That is controlling my environment.

 

You are trying to impose limitations on his relationships, which are really none of your business, at the cost of ostracizing him entirely.

 

 

 

I know my son didn't cheat on me, I'm not personally hurt, I'm disappointed in him and I'm backing away from it.

 

No you deeply enmeshed yourself in it. By further injecting yourself in his relationships by imposing sanctions on him, basically withdrawal of your parental support and affection, if his idea of a relationship isn't compliant with what you want for him, you are most certainly engaging in very controlling behavior.

 

You can't honestly say that your son suddenly became a liar and cheater at age 21 and this only manifests itself with respect to his relationships with girls. I don't believe that for one second.

 

Your son has probably been an arrogant, manipulative, lying cheat since early adolesence, if not before.

 

Why only NOW all of a sudden, does it matter to you?

 

 

 

 

Did you read my post where I said I advised the girl to talk to her mother (who knows nothing of the situation she says)?

 

Don't you think she either 1) already talked with her mom or 2) her relationship with her own mother is so dysfunctional that she doesn't want to, or it won't do any good?

 

The FIRST person a girl talks to when she has a relationship problem is her mom, unless they are not getting along very well. And what do you think her mom told her? "He's a no good cheater. Dump him." But then she said "But Mommmmm...!!!! I LOVVVVEEEEE HIMMMMMMMM......"

 

 

 

She says she's going to do this now, so how is me talking to her today a bad thing.

 

Well for one thing apparently you're doing this all behind your son's back? At the same time claiming you want him to learn to behave in an honest, fair manner?

 

Do you not see a possible contradiction between what you expect of him and your own behavior towards him? Not even a little bit?

 

 

 

 

 

I did exactly what some people on this thread advised, I supported her and encouraged her to seek better support then me.

 

You followed the advice that you wanted to follow. Did you also tell her to stop calling your house looking for your son? Did you tell her what you think, that your son is a no good lying cheat and she should just dump him and move on?

 

 

 

I don't feel bad at all for talking to her today.

 

I don't feel bad if I have a second helping of dessert, that doesn't mean I should do it though.

[Jabba]

He wouldn't talk like that to anyone.

 

 

Certainly not if he thought it would ever get back to you.

[ComingInHot]

Jabba;

It's apparent you feel very strongly about the situation the OP is in and her thoughts & questions on the topic. I hope you take this as Intended (with sincerity), but man, you need to chill a wee bit & maybe add a little tact w/your straight forwardness*

 

You make some good points.

Others are making good points.

 

Eleanorrigby is a great person w/a big heart that is hurting right now. Try not to trample on her feelings while you make a point.

 

((Hugs)) eleanorrigby***

[Jabba]

When I was in my early 20s, I worked in a small machine shop. I helped my favorite brother in law get a job there.

 

As this thread proves, people in their early 20's (what you called a "kid") don't always have very good judgment about relationships.

 

 

Not long after he started, one of the assemblers that I knew pretty well said that he and her daughter were similar and she wondered if he'd like 2 meet her.

 

Aw, you played Cupid at the machine shop. Nice.

 

 

 

They dated a couple times, IIRC, and then her mom asked me about something in my brother in law's behavior that had her wondering if he was a pot smoker.

 

Oh, so you gossiped about him behind his back to his gf's mom? Very nice.

 

A little jealous were you, perhaps?

 

 

I confirmed that he was on occasion,

 

Wow. Some friend you were.

 

Correct answer: "Sorry you'll have to ask him that yourself."

 

 

 

and the daughter never saw him again.

 

As far as you know.

 

I assume you told your buddy that you were the one who ratted him out?

 

How did he react? Was he upset or was he happy to be rid of her?

 

 

 

 

Now, I could care less about the pot, but she and her daughter obviously did, so they made their decision and we all remained friendly.

 

So your friend who you ratted out for smoking pot got dumped and you remained friends with him? Or are you saying the girl and her mother and you remained friends?

 

Why couldn't the mother just have asked your friend directly?

 

Why the need to go behind his back with the dishonest subterfuge?

 

 

 

 

My brother in law had a few other relationships after that while he fumbled around trying 2 get what he thought he wanted

 

what he thought he wanted but 2long knew weren't right for him...

 

 

and learning how 2 interact with PEOPLE who just so happened 2 have cool secondary sex characteristics. He met a gal several years later who he married and has 2 kids with. Great kids.

 

Well I'm just sure they are all so glad they meet with your approval. Guess you didn't get involved with any back stabbing that time?

 

 

 

 

He's still my favorite brother in law, even though he was a lot dumber then than he is now.

 

-ol' 2long

 

How many of your teeth did he knock out if you ever said that to his face?

 

Oh wait, you go behind people's backs, don't you...

 

LOL I guess this was your wife's brother you were pulling this crap on behind his back?

 

I wonder how dumb he thinks you are, then and now....

 

Did you ever tell him you ratted him out?

Edited February 14, 2013 by Jabba

[Jabba]

Jabba;

It's apparent you feel very strongly about the situation the OP is in and her thoughts & questions on the topic. I hope you take this as Intended (with sincerity), but man, you need to chill a wee bit & maybe add a little tact w/your straight forwardness*

 

OK I'll get a cold one and chill for you.

 

 

 

You make some good points.

Others are making good points.

 

That's up to her to decide.

 

 

 

 

Eleanorrigby is a great person w/a big heart that is hurting right now.

 

Right, she is identifying with the girl who was cheated on as if it were herself, that's what she needs to be aware of and not do. It's unhealthy.

 

 

 

Try not to trample on her feelings while you make a point.

 

((Hugs)) eleanorrigby***

 

I'm not trampling on anyone's feelings which is obviously impossible, for you to suggest that it is possible--i.e. that someone Eleanor remains in perpetual "victim" status merely because someone contradicts her preferred point of view--isn't helpful to her or to anyone in her position.