Son is cheating

[xxoo]

Having a talk with him doesn't mean he can't live his own life... People seek and need guidance all the way up to their death at an old age...

 

Talking is great, especially when both parties are talking and listening.

 

Lecturing and refusing to have him over until he does what you a want him to do is completely different.

[Art_Critic]

Talking is great, especially when both parties are talking and listening.

 

Lecturing and refusing to have him over until he does what you a want him to do is completely different.

 

Agreed, but then we don't know the dynamic of their relationship.

[BetheButterfly]

 

Your sons' actual girlfriend needs that wake up call. She needs to understand that she is a beautiful, lovely young woman who can do better than a coward. She needs to be told this, she needs to be empowered and she needs to get angry. Let her post your son on cheaters websites,

 

Agreed with this. She is so young. It is so sad that she is not realizing her worth as a human being and that she does not deserve being cheated on and she does not deserve being in a relationship with a guy who doesn't truly love her.

 

I am sorry about your son. I agree with those who say that parenting doesn't stop when the offspring has lived 18 years... it is a continual process. My parents still give me advice, and I'm 35. Their advice has helped my husband and me, not hurt us.

 

If I ever cheat on my husband, you can be sure my Mom will let me know how disappointed she is!!! If I ever do any crime, like stealing for example, she would do the same. I am glad about that though because I know she loves me and cares for me.

 

I think it'd be good to tell your son that you are disappointed in how he is treating this girl, and I think it'd be good to encourage the girl to talk to her parents. I agree that she should break up with him.

 

I do think there should be consequences for your son, though I'm not sure if cutting him off is a good consequence. For me, my Mom being disappointed in me is a negative consequence that I have endured in many things (like being lazy at school and not getting a good grade in a class). That was all I needed to realize I needed to "shape up."

 

Maybe he won't care that you are disappointed and hurt with his actions. I hope he does care, cause true love includes caring about the feelings of the beloved. Anyway, I really hope the girl breaks up with him and that he gets a taste "What goes around comes around." Maybe then he would understand how he is inflicting pain on this girl, and also on you.

 

I like this song:

[Ninja'sHusband]

Agreed, but then we don't know the dynamic of their relationship.

We know this:

My son is not great at listening. He prefers to lecture. He's very smart, very intense, and basically thinks he's smarter then 99% of people in any given room. Cocky.

 

Parenting him has always been a battle. I leave conversations with him feeling like I've gone 10 rounds with Ali. And this is almost every conversation.

 

He loves debating, and I know I'm one of his favorite sparring parters, but this is one conversation where I don't think I'd be able to hold my own. I'd probably be yelling at him within 10 mins if we have this talk.

[eleanorrigby]

OK so I just finished talking with her.

 

I gave her the usual advice we give here, expressed how lousy I think he is behaving and that I don't think she should put up with it. I also told her a little bit about my own marriage and what I've been through.

 

 

She said that talking to me made her feel better, so even though I may have overstepped myself, I feel good about it.

 

She's going to talk to her mother and thank goodness because she was telling me that her mother thinks he's a great person now and is happy that he's her boyfriend. Mom doesn't know what has been going on. I suggested that she tell her, and get her support to help her stick to her decision to break up.

 

Well..she says she wants to break up with him but it's so hard because she loves him.. I know what that feels like. I don't know if she will go through with it.. but at least she feels supported.

[Snowflower]

OK so I just finished talking with her.

 

I gave her the usual advice we give here, expressed how lousy I think he is behaving and that I don't think she should put up with it. I also told her a little bit about my own marriage and what I've been through.

 

 

She said that talking to me made her feel better, so even though I may have overstepped myself, I feel good about it.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a friend/mentor to a young adult. Sometimes young people listen to objective advice better from someone who is not their parent.

 

You did the right thing by talking to her!

[eleanorrigby]

i would not even call at no whores house.

for her to feel like i accept her or know it and find it normal

to look for my son there.

 

I get what you are saying, I just wanted to get in touch with him right away after she called this morning. I've never called her home before.

[BetrayedH]

Hopefully her mom can step in and be her support now.

 

Then I hope you find an opportunity soon to grab your son by the ear and give him a piece of your mind. I'm 42 with kids of my own but if my Mom gave me what-for about my behavior (especially if it impacted her in this way) it would get my attention.

[ComingInHot]

eleanorrigby;

 

If I am wrong here, please correct me but it sounds like your son knows that you know he is cheating, right?

And he knows there was infidelity in your marriage also, right?

 

I don't see anything wrong with sitting him down and telling him how this is affecting you. I also think it would be a good idea to have his father sit down and share a few things about infidelity that he has learned as well.

 

Dad's and son's communicate well via "story time". It seems work well for them.

 

My concern is this: "He loves debating, and I know I'm one of his favorite sparring parters, but this is one conversation where I don't think I'd be able to hold my own. I'd probably be yelling at him within 10 mins if we have this talk."

 

You both need to understand that sharing how his actions are affecting you is NOT a debate.

Feelings should Not be debated. Issues, yes. Feelings, NO.

 

Should you decide to speak with him do NOT let him bait you into discussing the topic of cheating.

 

Keep it simple. "What you are doing by way of cheating on your girlfriend is making me feel __________. I felt it was important for you to know because you are important to me. And because you are important to me, you have some real power. The power to affect how the people who love you are feeling and right now I feel awful! I can't make you do anything nor could I convince you to do anything you don't want to do. I am not going to debate what you are/aren't doing or whether it is right or wrong. I just wanted you to know that I love you so much and the choices you are making are affecting more than just one person. It's hurting me too..."

 

I am certain he will try to justify his actions/behaviors. Remind him it isn't about that. Always bring it back to the fact that it is affecting you.

No guilt or manipulations needed. Don't judge him. Be honest about how his behavior is hurting you. End the conversation with I love you then send him on his way to deal with the consequences of decisions on his own.

-love him regardless.

-refrain from speaking to either young lady until this is all worked out and done.

 

I am SO sorry you are hurting!!! **

[eleanorrigby]

CIH that's the problem, he takes all conversations as a challenge. It's fun for him. I'm ready to do it if I have to, but ugh. I know by the time it's over I'll be ready to throttle him till he passes out.

 

His GF told me when she talks to him and tells him how he's making her feel, she feels like she is the one that is wrong.

 

But I'm sitting here.. just itching for me to come over or call.

Edited February 13, 2013 by eleanorrigby

[ComingInHot]

UGH!!! I completely get what you are saying.

 

The BIGGEST lesson I EVER had to learn was to KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT!!!

 

But there are times when I just say what I KNOW needs to be said then don't say another word. Literally. Not ONE more word.

 

It ends up being my GREATEST weapon when used correctly. It is also the HARDEST thing to do. In your son's case though, I think it could treat you VERY well.

He loves to debate right?

Well, tell him when you are done speaking it will be his turn. Then just let him debate with......... himself. He can debate himself til he's blue in the face but it will NOT change what you have said or convince you to Feel otherwise.

Stay silent. When he says, "Well?" simply reply, "Well What?" tell him you love him and say goodbye for the night.

Stay out of the discussion. you sharing your feelings is not up for discussion no matter how he debates or rants*

 

Wouldn't it be so much easier to just swat'em upside the head and tell them to straighten up and fly right?!?!?!!

[ComingInHot]

LHF;

 

I have a question*

 

Do you think sharing with someone how their behavior is affecting you because you love them so much is "interfering" or being honest?

 

I don't mean telling anyone what to do or how to feel, only sharing how it is affecting you. I sincerely think it is important to let others that we love, know what a profound affect they have on our lives in both good and not so good ways. My family (immediate & extended) often times thank me for reminding them that they are important and what they do does make a difference*

 

Totally being sincere here LHF. You know that right?

[Keenly]

Having a talk with him doesn't mean he can't live his own life... People seek and need guidance all the way up to their death at an old age...

 

And where is he seeking out this guidance?

He isn't.

[xxoo]

Please also consider that if he decides that this "OW" is the girl he's going to spend his life with, it will color that for a long time as well, and your relationship with her too. In fact it already has. Parents really don't belong in the dating habits of young adults.

 

Yes, it is completely possible that he will end up with this new girl for the longer term.

 

How old is she? Does she really deserve to be called names here?

[Jabba]

The questions is: how much can parents influence their grown, independent child's behavior? And what is the best way to do so?

 

IMO, the first step is to gain your son's respect.

 

Parents have plenty of influence on the child's behavior.

 

Unfortunately, where the father is a cheater, that can be the role model that the son follows.

[Jabba]

I think the bigger issue here not just that your son at 21 is cheating on his girlfriend, but that you fear this may become an established pattern in his future relationships.

 

I think it hurts you personally that your son has witnessed the devastation you, as his own mother has been through, seems to have not made a dent in his perception of cheating.

 

I imagine your son, who is a long way off from marriage, views boyfriend girlfriend relationships, as something quite separate from what his parents have been through.

 

I think if you and your husband were to have a sit down with your son, and explain that it's not about interfering with his personal life, but more of a concern about how best he can deal with relationships in general in the now and in the future.

 

No, just the opposite. The son is emulating the behavior of the father who cheated on his mother.

[eleanorrigby]

 

2. Young adults are supposed to date other people before settling down. You are writing off this girl he is NOW seeing without knowing anything about her except that she is dating your son while this other girl is crying on your shoulder. Your son is the one who is the one that is making poor choices here.

We could talk all day about whether or not the OW owes it to the wife to tell her, but it's not up to the new girlfriend to smooth over the poor handling of past relationships of the guy she's dating. That's on HIM and he needs to man up and deal.

 

I don't like it that she would hang up on this girl calling crying looking for her boyfriend. That bothers me and if she does become his permanent girlfriend.. it's going to take me a long while to warm up to her. If ever. She doesn't strike me as a nice person. I know my sons is not being a nice person either, but that's my son, I love him. I don't give a flying fart about OG. Also I'm hoping he will date around, I don't want him to get married as young as I did...but it could happen.

 

3. The young woman he's cheating on should never have involved you in this at all. You did a kind thing for her in talking with her, but it could potentially have a long term impact on the future relationship with you and your son. Please also consider that if he decides that this "OW" is the girl he's going to spend his life with, it will color that for a long time as well, and your relationship with her too. In fact it already has. Parents really don't belong in the dating habits of young adults.

 

She probably shouldn't have, but I'm glad she did if something I said gets to her to open up to her mom or others in her life. She told me that she had talked to her older brother about him and that he said she should drop him as well, because he's playing her. So she has her brother and hopefully her mom to talk to now.. and I guess me as well because I still don't feel comfortable cutting her off if she calls to talk.

4. A 9 month dating relationship is NOT a marriage. It's not even a long term relationship in many people's eyes and it may not have even been monogamous for a large chunk of it. I don't know the details, and you rprobably don't have the full picture. It IS different than cheating in a marriage. We aren't talking about common law or living together or anything of the sort even, we are talking about 2 young adults who were dating, one decided not to see the other any longer, handled the "fallout" badly and can't decide what he wants, but it is different. I think you'd rather he determine that this is NOT the girl for him now than decide 3 years down the line when they have a couple babies that now is when he realizes it's not what he wants or that he feels the need to be with someone else.

 

Thing is, he isn't telling her that he doesn't want to see her anymore, he's telling her that he loves her and that he's not going to hurt her again... but then he keeps doing it. I feel sorry for her.

5. If you interfere in this you do risk damaging your relationship possibly short term, but potentially long term. He needs to handle this, not you. It's not 2nd grade and poking the girl in front of him with a pencil. Time for him to grow up and OWN HIS ACTIONS. If you are ok with telling him off, know that he may push back and you may lose him for a while and that your relationship will never be the same. But by doing the things he's doing that may have already changed the way you are viewing him. It's not wrong for that to happen, but please know that it could.

 

I'm not worried about messing things up with him long term. I know him, he will blow up, and/or sulk.. but he will come around.

6. Something to consider is that he may view it as none of your business and not shared with you things she's done or reasons that he doesn't want to be with her anymore. Maybe he finds it embarassing, maybe he just doesn't want to share, but maybe he did try and handle it honorably and she won't accept his choices. I've seen that happen a number of times.

 

He has told me a few things about their encounters, things she does that irritate him, but he also says he wants to be with her. I don't know what to say to that. He treats her like crap but doesn't want to break up. He just wants to do what he wants to do.

7. Kids expect their parents to have their back. No matter how this turns out, and I hope it turns out in a way that everyone is happy and can live with, I wouldn't be shocked if you don't get to meet any new girlfriends for a while.

I don't want to anymore. I'm also going to let him know that I'm not interested in meeting any of his girlfriends until he's ready to get married! I'm done with this!

 

 

Good luck.

Thanks

[Jabba]

Helicopter parents prevent kids from growing up. They do not assist in it.

 

The ONLY thing that will change his behavior is when a girl HE loves smashes HIS heart to pieces and cheats on him. Eating what he is dishing out is the only way he will understand.

 

Unfortunately this crap is not necessarily transitive.

[eleanorrigby]

Yes, it is completely possible that he will end up with this new girl for the longer term.

 

How old is she? Does she really deserve to be called names here?

 

I think she is 23.

[Jabba]

By the way, the assumption that your son is "cheating" in the first place--did you confirm from him (or even from the crying girlfriend) that this was ever supposed to an "exclusive" relationship?

 

Well if it was "exclusive" previously, it clearly isn't now, and the crying girlfriend definitely knows about the new girlfriend. So it's entirely her choice to keep chasing your son under those circumstances.

 

And that in fact is what the crying girlfriend is doing. She's chasing your son even to the point of calling you, his mother, when he doesn't even live at your address.

 

I daresay were the genders reversed the crying gf might be accused of being a "stalker."

 

Your son does sound like something of an arrogant punk, but that's perceived by these women as being an alpha bad boy which is extremely attractive to them.

 

So could you please clarify how you know the relationship between your son and the crying stalkerish/bunny boilerish gf was ever supposed to be "exclusive" and if so why you feel your son obligated to maintain an exclusive relationship with her when he doesn't care to? Not married, not engaged, hell it doesn't even sound like they were ever going "steady."

[Jabba]

I

don't like it that she would hang up on this girl calling crying looking for her boyfriend. That bothers me and if she does become his permanent girlfriend..

 

Eleanor Rigby, I know you mean the best but you just used the term "permanent girlfriend."

 

You're aware there's really no such thing as a permanent gf, right?

 

"Girlfriend" implies a romantic status something more than a FWB yet something less than "permanence." At least to me it does.

 

I think you need to re-evaluate your own cognitive processing of this entire scenario before you do anything else about it.

[Jabba]

He's not obligated to limit himself to only the crying, rather stalkerish, clingy, and somewhat creepy 18 year old gf.

 

Right?

 

Does everyone realize that single people are allowed to date as many different other people as they wish to at the same time?

 

Maybe crying gf's clingy creeperishness is driving him away to some extent.

 

Are the son and the stalkerish gf betrothed or something? ("Permanent"???)

 

Frankly I'm not seeing why Eleanor is encouraging this young woman to continue her stalking behavior. All you owe her is honesty, not judgment of your son because due to being cheated on you identify with her. Just tell her

 

"Look honey you need to grow up. My son is not ready to settle down with only one girl yet. That should be obvious to you by this point, you know he is seeing other woman/women (who knows how many really?) It's a free country and he is allowed to go out with as many girls as he wants. If he lied to you I won't defend that but I have no knowledge of what actually went on between the two of you nor is it really any of my business. Of course you are free to go out with as many other men as you choose or not, suit yourself. Or just dump my son if you don't like him seeing other women. It's entirely up to you. What is completely intolerable is you constantly calling me about it. Enough is enough. My son is a grown man, he doesn't live here, and I don't tell him who he should or shouldn't date nor on what terms. That's up to him and whoever he dates to figure out between themselves."

[eleanorrigby]

By the way, the assumption that your son is "cheating" in the first place--did you confirm from him (or even from the crying girlfriend) that this was ever supposed to an "exclusive" relationship?

 

Well if it was "exclusive" previously, it clearly isn't now, and the crying girlfriend definitely knows about the new girlfriend. So it's entirely her choice to keep chasing your son under those circumstances.

 

And that in fact is what the crying girlfriend is doing. She's chasing your son even to the point of calling you, his mother, when he doesn't even live at your address.

 

I daresay were the genders reversed the crying gf might be accused of being a "stalker."

 

Your son does sound like something of an arrogant punk, but that's perceived by these women as being an alpha bad boy which is extremely attractive to them.

 

So could you please clarify how you know the relationship between your son and the crying stalkerish/bunny boilerish gf was ever supposed to be "exclusive" and if so why you feel your son obligated to maintain an exclusive relationship with her when he doesn't care to? Not married, not engaged, hell it doesn't even sound like they were ever going "steady."

 

He called her his girlfriend. He's still calling her his girlfriend. He brings her to the house to hang out and watch movies and they would be snuggled up on the sofa making out half the time. I don't know what other confirmation I could get that they were a couple. And she's the only girl he has been bringing around the house.

 

He's arrogant for sure, I can never deny that. He knows how to talk people into corners and enjoys it, it's a sport for him. This 18 year old is in for it... another reason why I feel sorry for her, he needs a strong girlfriend who can stand up to him. I don't know if she will be able to do it.

 

I've never said he's obligated to stay with this girl. I've said a few times to him that if he doesn't like her anymore, why is he still dating her? He tells me he does love her.

[eleanorrigby]

I

 

Eleanor Rigby, I know you mean the best but you just used the term "permanent girlfriend."

 

You're aware there's really no such thing as a permanent gf, right?

 

"Girlfriend" implies a romantic status something more than a FWB yet something less than "permanence." At least to me it does.

 

I think you need to re-evaluate your own cognitive processing of this entire scenario before you do anything else about it.

 

OK. Maybe I should have said exclusive.

[eleanorrigby]

I understand that and that's valid. Do you know for sure that she doesn't think she's some crazy ex from months ago?

 

They all work together right now at the same place, she knows that the GF is his girlfriend.