Son is cheating

[ComingInHot]

Easy Jabba. I really was being sincere.

 

Maybe grab "two"?

[eleanorrigby]

There's nothing for you to be "ready" for. This is all about you, it really has nothing to do with your son. You're just projecting all your issues with your marriage onto your son's juvenile relationships.

 

Yeah i do want to be ready to have a conversation with him. I may be projecting. I didn't think I was, but I'll give that some thought.

 

 

How he treats them is between him and the girl(s). What is it that you think you are going to "see," that you don't want to see, if he brings different girls to your house?

 

He's only been bringing the one girl that was his exclusive girlfriend. I think if I took your advice, I'd have to deal with various and sundry girls at the house. Passing on that one.

 

Again the issue has nothing to do with the girls. If he's a dishonest cheater and liar, he's a dishonest cheater and liar not just with girls, but as a core personality characteristic. So how do you intend to address that?

 

By getting the lies out of my house.

You're saying you're perfectly fine if he wants to lie to and cheat on his gfs as long as you play hear no evil see no evil speak no evil? As long as it's on his own time and you don't know about it?

 

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

I'm not fine with it, but I can't stop it, the only thing I can do is have him keep it the hell away from me and not involve me. Oh and I can also suggest to the person he's hurting that she shouldn't have to feel this way, that this is not how a boyfriend should treat his girlfriend, etc

 

(But ironically that's exactly what I proposed the hypothetical conversation your husband would have with him--"just keep it out of the house." So I guess I was right.)

 

I suppose, what else can I do? You've made it clear that I'm not to interfere in his relationships. I just want one opportunity to state how I feel about his behavior and really if you think that's not my place,again, I disagree, that's my son. I'm going to tell him.

 

 

 

 

You are trying to impose limitations on his relationships, which are really none of your business, at the cost of ostracizing him entirely.

 

I'm not imposing limitations on his relationship with other girls, I'm imposing a limitation on his relationship with me for the time being.

 

 

No you deeply enmeshed yourself in it. By further injecting yourself in his relationships by imposing sanctions on him, basically withdrawal of your parental support and affection, if his idea of a relationship isn't compliant with what you want for him, you are most certainly engaging in very controlling behavior.

 

Well, if you read back I did mention that I was and am still a little unsure if I'm doing the right thing exactly. I am trying to figure out what is the best way to handle this. All I know for sure is that I need let him know how I feel about how he's behaving.

 

You can't honestly say that your son suddenly became a liar and cheater at age 21 and this only manifests itself with respect to his relationships with girls. I don't believe that for one second.

 

Your son has probably been an arrogant, manipulative, lying cheat since early adolesence, if not before.

 

Why only NOW all of a sudden, does it matter to you?

 

And what makes you think that I had an epiphany this morning about my son? Because I posted this thread and asked for advice? You really think I've never given a thought to his behavior before? If you knew me, and my online history, you could find other posts about my son on the internet seeking advice. This post is here because it's related to infidelity.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you think she either 1) already talked with her mom or 2) her relationship with her own mother is so dysfunctional that she doesn't want to, or it won't do any good?

 

The FIRST person a girl talks to when she has a relationship problem is her mom, unless they are not getting along very well. And what do you think her mom told her? "He's a no good cheater. Dump him." But then she said "But Mommmmm...!!!! I LOVVVVEEEEE HIMMMMMMMM......"

 

All I know about her relationship with her mother is what she told me today; that her mother didn't know about the cheating and that her mother thinks my son is great, and that she's going to talk to her now about what's going on.

 

 

Well for one thing apparently you're doing this all behind your son's back? At the same time claiming you want him to learn to behave in an honest, fair manner?

 

I decided that I didn't need my sons permission to talk to this girl and comfort her this morning and afternoon. I can't reach him anyway and he hasn't tried to call me.

 

Do you not see a possible contradiction between what you expect of him and your own behavior towards him? Not even a little bit?

 

No so far I do not.

 

 

 

 

 

You followed the advice that you wanted to follow. Did you also tell her to stop calling your house looking for your son? Did you tell her what you think, that your son is a no good lying cheat and she should just dump him and move on?

 

Yes, I followed the advice that felt the most appropriate and the easiest to follow when she called this afternoon. I had already said I did not feel comfortable abruptly cutting her off and ending the contact and so far I still feel that this was the right move for me. I'm glad I got a chance to support her, and yes, I told her that he is acting like an ******* and she should break up with him and that at 18 she could find another boyfriend in 10 minutes. She laughed at that and I could tell she was feeling a little better.

 

 

I don't feel bad if I have a second helping of dessert, that doesn't mean I should do it though.

 

What I should do is still up for debate in this thread because I'm not quite sold on your ideas fully. However, I do appreciate you taking all this time to post to me.

[eleanorrigby]

I'm not trampling on anyone's feelings which is obviously impossible, for you to suggest that it is possible--i.e. that someone Eleanor remains in perpetual "victim" status merely because someone contradicts her preferred point of view--isn't helpful to her or to anyone in her position.

 

When exactly did I cry victim in this thread over someones advice?

[Furious]

<snip>

 

Bwahahahaha!!

 

Lik, you crack me up!

 

-ol' 2long

 

Ssshhh...you might wake him up.

[Spark1111]

He wouldn't talk like that to anyone.

 

ER, I have a son your age and he was 16 when DDay happened. he was devastated.

 

he left for college and gave be two caveats: you talk to whomever you need to talk to to heal, but I do not want them talking to me about it, and

 

Please Do NOT involve me in the sure to be ensuing mom and dad drama. I agreed and did not. Those were his boundaries and I killed myself to make sure I never transgressed them.

 

He came home one weekend and told me, despite having a long-term girlfriend, he wound up at the end of the evening at the frat house with a lingerie model professing interest in him.

 

It took every ounce of self-control he had not to end the evening with her, and part of that was seeing my pain when his dad cheated on me.

 

It was a bittersweet conversation for me. Part of me was so proud of him in that our experience of infidelity left him very sensitive to a woman's pain and he considered his gf first and said no to temptation.

 

The other part of me , the mother felt, here is where you learn what works and what doesn't, and if your DAD hadn't cheated on me...would you even have had that thought? that doubt? that self-censoring?

 

So here is what I did. I told him, it's okay.You are a young man and you are supposed to sow wild oats, so please, be BRUTALLY honest with every woman who comes into your life. let her know where YOU stand: Exclusively committed, like her as a friend, still seeing others, like her, care for her but not willing to be exclusive....TELL each woman the truth, period. that is the infidelity survivor in me...be honest and let them decide.

 

And the mother in me?

 

I told him, date them small, tall, big-breasted, small hipped, large hipped, red, blonde, brunette.....do it now and get in out of your system....have your fun..your experiences...but when you choose a life partner, choose wisely and well because YOU will commit for life and I expect NO LESS from you.

 

 

And then I had to let it go....and pray for the best.

 

Good luck to you!

[BetrayedH]

Again, I never said he's obligated, but don't you think he ought to break up with her if he doesn't want to be exclusive? Or at the very least say he wants to date other people. I know from her that he doesn't want her dating others.

 

 

 

That's very possible, but again, he should break up with her if she is annoying, creepy, and stalking him. He's telling this girl that he's not going to cheat on her anymore and that he loves her! He's denying that he's cheating on her now, when he still is!

 

 

Right, permanent was a poor choice of words, and I'm not saying they are getting married, but this girl is being told that she is his only girlfriend when she's not.

 

I'm not encouraging her to stalk him, I'm encouraging her to break up with him if he keeps treating her like this. And why wouldn't my son deserve judgement for this? He's acting like a creep!

 

 

 

Actually I did say some of the things you mentioned, but I tried to be as nice as possible because she's really hurting. She's 18 and I get the feeling this is her first real boyfriend and she's in over her head with all this cheating and lying. She says she keeps thinking he will stop hurting her, that she found out that he cheated on her and she forgave him. She did something a lot of us BS's do, forgive too quickly because she didn't want to lose the relationship, and she thought he would stop the behavior. He lies to her and tells her that OG is just his friend and they hang out on his off days when she's at school, or late at night when it's too late for her to come out. smh

 

Based upon this post alone, I support a resolution that eleanorrigby should hereby propose a debate about "cheating" with the defendant, her son. Who is with me?

[BetrayedH]

OK then you gave your opinion and they both know what it is. It's their choice whether to accept it or not, right?

 

It's very simple, like everything else around here, it's about establishing appropriate boundaries. It sounds like you're having a lot of trouble establishing appropriate boundaries with your son and his various women.

 

If you really want to have an impact on his behavior, nagging him about cheating on his gfs is probably not going to be very effective.

 

It's pretty clear that there are some obvious things you can do not to make the situation any worse, i.e. by injecting yourself into conversations between him and his gf or the OG.

 

If someone asks you for advice, or opinion, then give it. If someone says something to YOU (not hearsay or third party) that YOU feel is offensive, call them out on it. If someone behaves in YOUR presence in an offensive way, (not something someone else told you about), then you need to do something about it.

 

That means your home can no longer be a haven for your son and the 18 yr old gf--because it's a dishonest relationship (according to you).

 

So your home has to be off limits to the 18 yr old gf--that is, if you mean what you say--you won't tolerate or encourage your son to cheat on her--because by encouraging them to maintain that relationship you are keeping her involved with a cheater, which you say you don't want for her.

 

If she calls you again you have to turn her away. She is just manipulating you anyway although you don't realize it. But you turn her away for her own good. "My son cheats on you, there's nothing more to be said, I think it best if you stay away from him entirely, he's no good for you. I wish I could help you but I can't. I've done everything I can. I'm not your mom. Please don't call here anymore. Find another boyfriend." (I guess you're problem is you've already told her something like this but she doesn't want to stop pursuing your son anyway?) Then if she keeps calling you hang up or screen the call. Tough love.

 

You sounded like you are on the verge of disowning your son. Or maybe not? Maybe what you're doing is just continuing this dysfunctional cycle and you need it to keep going for some unhealthy reason? Why else would you actively intervene in this by actively calling the OG on your son's behalf? You are keeping this thing going in some ways.

 

That's right. The more you talk with each the more upset you both get about this. It's mutually enabling and totally dysfunctional. You're not getting anywhere, you're just making it worse.

 

You're not her parent, you're not a therapist, and you are too emotionally involved to have an objective perspective. If there is a problem here then you are part of it not part of the solution. You need to step back and be very clear with this woman and your son that you are stepping back and why you are stepping back.

 

You must step back because you can't play this role and trying to play it is damaging to them and to you. It is beyond your pay grade.

 

You need to exercise some tough love on them and yourself. You need to stop being so emotionally self-indulgent under the guise of "helping." You're not helping.

 

If we are talking about role modeling, then I don't think talking about your son's relationship with her behind his back is and basically having a mutual bitch-fest about him is either 1) honest or 2) fair.

 

Step back.

 

The part in bold is incorrect. It is EXACTLY your pay grade and no one else's. this is the one time you do NOT wash your hands.

[BetrayedH]

Wait a second...wait a second....your husband the man who cheated on you (wife/mother) is sitting in judgment on your son for cheating on what sounds like a rather casual adolescent puppy love gf?

 

Wow no wonder your son is acting all arrogant and defiant.

 

The first thing you should have told your husband when he opened his mouth in judgment of your son (not saying your son shouldn't be judged, just that your husband is the last one to be doing the judging) is "Now you keep your mouth shut. If you had kept your pecker in your pants maybe you wouldn't have raised a son who would do this in the first place!"

 

I'll bet you didn't say that though.

 

I'll bet you enabled by encouraging your husband to think he had any moral standing to sit in judgment of your son.

 

Like I said you're part of the problem. Sorry but it's true.

 

Unbelievable. Do you really think your husband gives a damn about these girls? Don't you realize in his depths of his mind your husband is smiling to himself thinking "That's my boy! Get that sweet side pussy! Be a player! Wish I was still young just like you!"

 

The mere fact that your husband would dare to come out with his sanctimonious crap in this particular situation is telling me that your husband is a complete hypocrite, still. And that he never really "changed" from the cheater he was (even if he never cheated again).

 

What your husband SHOULD have told you is "Honey I want to be supportive of you but given what I did I'm in no position to sit in judgment of Sonny Boy on this one. It would just be perceived by him as total hypocrisy on my part. All I am, is a bad example."

 

He didn't say that though did he?

 

This one is just conjecture and rude, in my opinion.

 

How can you argue that disapproval of cheating represents an unremorseful wayward? Your hypothesis is purely counter-intuitive with no basis in fact, which is what makes it rude.

[BetrayedH]

Sorry but this punishment doesn't quite fit the "crime" either. You're going overboard now.

 

You stated that you didn't want him to cheat on this particular girl who you say he owes it to, not to cheat on (even though she knows about it and has forgiven him and is still actively pursuing him). O.K. fine.

 

What does that have to do with him seeing other girls? Or bringing them to your home?

 

Nothing.

 

You are just being controlling.

 

You're still angry at your husband and taking it out on your son.

 

Your son didn't cheat on you.

 

But her son is a cheater. How long would you like to give the betrayed girlfriend to get over it?

[BetrayedH]

Your husband is free to talk to him obviously, but I hope you realize what that conversation is going to be like:

 

"Son believe me I understand you want as much pussy and variety as possible and you are just young dumb and full of c*m.

 

However since you couldn't be discreet and your crazy girlfriend keeps calling here she and your mother are getting into it and it's triggering your mom like crazy.

 

Now I can't sit in judgment of you since I cheated on your mom. However you are not married to any of these girls, it was stupid of you to lie to this girl and mislead her, she is hassling your mom and it is causing problems for me because it reminds her of when I cheated. You need to dump this one and next time just pump and dump.

 

If you have to do this stuff please don't bring your sh*t to our house any longer, keep it on the down low.

 

By the way congratulations on nailing two broads at once. I am really proud of you."

 

Boy, this is a nice, great, big assumption.

[BetrayedH]

Easy Jabba. I really was being sincere.

 

Maybe grab "two"?

 

Ok, that was funny.

[Spark1111]

I have a hard time reading this thread because the extent to which people will go to support their own interests is mind blowing.

 

Cheaters telling Mothers that their offspring acting like arrogant lying users is not their business. Wow, no wonder we live in a world of so little accountability.

 

Kids being told that ****ting all over the good name of their family is acceptable; and they shouldn't have to hear an objection from the person who gave them life and whose job it is to be a moral compass and safe harbor in this world.

 

Parents yelled at for giving a crap about the suffering of other people's children and not just the petty sexual interests of their own child...

 

When I read this "anything goes" ideology I'm so damn glad I was raised by immigrant academics with a concern for social justice....

 

Me too! Church-going, pious intellectuals, who read the Bible and the NY Times, worked in the Arts and told me every day of my life that the world should be a better place because I had lived on the planet.

 

In other words, it was never about what I got out of life but what I was giving back to humanity that would be my legacy.

 

Ok, it was the Kennedy administration, so forgive us.

[BetrayedH]

You didn't. If you are projecting....you aren't the only one.

 

Props for humor in this post, too, BNB.

[BetrayedH]

ER, I have a son your age and he was 16 when DDay happened. he was devastated.

 

he left for college and gave be two caveats: you talk to whomever you need to talk to to heal, but I do not want them talking to me about it, and

 

Please Do NOT involve me in the sure to be ensuing mom and dad drama. I agreed and did not. Those were his boundaries and I killed myself to make sure I never transgressed them.

 

He came home one weekend and told me, despite having a long-term girlfriend, he wound up at the end of the evening at the frat house with a lingerie model professing interest in him.

 

It took every ounce of self-control he had not to end the evening with her, and part of that was seeing my pain when his dad cheated on me.

 

It was a bittersweet conversation for me. Part of me was so proud of him in that our experience of infidelity left him very sensitive to a woman's pain and he considered his gf first and said no to temptation.

 

The other part of me , the mother felt, here is where you learn what works and what doesn't, and if your DAD hadn't cheated on me...would you even have had that thought? that doubt? that self-censoring?

 

So here is what I did. I told him, it's okay.You are a young man and you are supposed to sow wild oats, so please, be BRUTALLY honest with every woman who comes into your life. let her know where YOU stand: Exclusively committed, like her as a friend, still seeing others, like her, care for her but not willing to be exclusive....TELL each woman the truth, period. that is the infidelity survivor in me...be honest and let them decide.

 

And the mother in me?

 

I told him, date them small, tall, big-breasted, small hipped, large hipped, red, blonde, brunette.....do it now and get in out of your system....have your fun..your experiences...but when you choose a life partner, choose wisely and well because YOU will commit for life and I expect NO LESS from you.

 

 

And then I had to let it go....and pray for the best.

 

Good luck to you!

 

Good Mom..

[Got it]

I don't see it an issue that a parent would tell their child that they are disapproving of x, y, or z and while they love and support them they are going to enforce a, b, or c because of it. Their child is an adult and so consequences are naturally just like their could be counter consequences to the a,b, and c from said offspring.

 

All of it is a gamble but ultimately one that did fall in the OP's lap and not one that she seemed to have gone out looking for.

 

Even with family, support and love needs to be prevalent but boundaries are necessary as well. It is a fluid and subjective give and take depending on the individuals, personalities, and dynamics.

 

So in short, I think the best advice is go with your gut.

[eleanorrigby]

By the long, drama-filled and OH SO histrionic dissertations written in this thread, it's obvious someone needs to find a better outlet for their time. Good God, my scroll button got a good workout in this thread.

 

Stop defending yourself to those who insist on going WAY over the top by writing War and Peace every damned time they're compelled to reply, and projecting their NONSENSE into your life.

 

It was tiresome, but on the other hand, it gave my perspective a workout and by the end of that debate, I feel even better about my decisions so far.

Thanks

[Snowflower]

Eleanor, I hope you and your H get the chance to have a decent, meaningful convo with your son. Hope the thread was helpful even if there were some "different" opinions (I will leave it at that).

 

I also am hoping that the young lady finds some resolution that is healthy for her.

[Summer Breeze]

When my xH cheated I had 2 very different dynamics with the parents on both sides.

 

On his side I told them and that my D and I were moving out. I let them know I expected them to be angry at him and hate what he did but I knew they would never hate him. They were really upset and declared him barred from the family initially. After lots of tears and talk they understood eventually he'd be back in the fold because he's blood. I told them not to hate his OW because the decisions were his. They struggled with that but after a year or so his mom told me I was right and life did move on with both of them in the family. ER you have every right to be upset and to speak your peace. You have every right to set up your boundaries as far as your sons involving you goes.

 

On the other side of the parent situation were mine. As far as your son's GF is concerned some of what I went through might be some of what she's going through. I left and told my parents nothing of his cheating. We had a D together and I didn't want them projecting anything onto her. It backfired on me. I said it was because we weren't getting along and a few other issues that we had been struggling with. It didn't take too many months for my mom to start blaming me and I had to come clean with her. I didn't want them knowing because of my daughter and trying to find a way to keep the peace. Maybe the GF in your situation hesitated to talk to her mom because she doesn't want to jeopardize what her parents think of your son. We all do strange things in the name of protecting people we love. I do think maybe she did manipulate you a little bit but more likely she was doing what she thought necessary to save her R with him.

 

Do I think you're projecting ER? Probably not but maybe a little. We all do. No matter how much we want to not judge or project I think we all still do it.

 

Do I think you should have asked your H to be involved? Yes I do. I don't think he should judge but he should definitely impart his experience and mistakes. To talk to someone is not to sit in judgement of them.

 

I also think it's not wise to involve yourself too deeply in kids lives but I think you're seeing that and no matter what -- you're in it now so you have to react to this situation and put boundaries in place for anything else that may come along.

 

Good luck ER. I think you're doing well and have a clear view on how you're going to proceed. More than anything take care of yourself right now.

[Leigh 87]

Your in an IDEAL position to help your son to be a better person.

 

He loves you; if you tell him that YOU were once his girlfriend, and that you were SO hurt by it - he may wake up. He may listen.

 

 

....If it were my kid, I would not attack him about it or act too negtively towards him..

 

To make him listen, I would just tell him the facts calmly.

 

- If he wants to be single and have more than one girl at a time, it is soooo selfish of him to want to be in a relationship while doing so

 

- It is morally WRONG to want the benifits of a loving girlfriend, when he cheats on her with other girls..

 

- He cannot have his cake and eat it too; he either needs to be single and miss out on having a caring girlfriend that he then cheats on OR: want a little longer and hold out for THE RIGHT girl that he does not want to cheat on.

 

- I would tel my 19 yr old that he was too young to be dating seriously, and to avoid it because he will end up hurting someone; he is too immature to know about love and how to put someone elses needs before his.

 

Those are the pain points I would highlight to him.

 

He cannot just go around and expect to have a loving girlfriend on the side, when he goes and cheats on her!

 

You have a chance to help change this boy!

 

I hope you stop him from becoming a terrible man.

[Els]

I think you did the right thing, eleanor. This isn't something you found out by breaching his privacy - he's letting it all hang out in the open and worse yet, expecting you to cover for him. Currently you are experiencing the consequences of his crappy decision-making. Not him.

 

The major benefit of distancing yourself from him, I think, will come from the fact that the girlfriend should know that coming to you about it is going to be pointless. So she will have to deal directly with him.

[Jonah]

You seem to be injecting yourself into your sons romantic relationships because you are seeing things that happened to you. Take it from a son, as a mom you do not want to get involved in this kind of thing. Your son will view it as taking sides, and its sure as hell not his side you are taking. It's going to alienate you.

 

Do not meddle in your sons personal life.

 

True this above. your son will be attracted to the gal he is most comparable Withe may audience something unhealthy in gal 1. mistral birds and bees

[Toots]

I think this thread illustrates that BS who stay with WS teach kids that "cheating" is OK because it will get forgiven and all will be well again.

[BetrayedH]

I think this thread illustrates that BS who stay with WS teach kids that "cheating" is OK because it will get forgiven and all will be well again.

 

One anecdotal case, perhaps. Some children follow the model their parents set for them; some rebel against it. The psych reading I've done indicates that it is virtually impossible to predict which path a child will choose.

 

Anecdotal from my own life: I was the eldest of four boys. My parents fought incessantly but stayed together for the kids; my mother finally divorced my father within 6 months of the yougest moving out. Following your hypothesis, you might expect me to do something similar but I was determined not to follow my parents' model.

 

Kids certainly learn something from their parents but whether they will learn to follow your example or learn from your example proves nearly impossible to predict.

[anna121]

(Sorry - only on page 5 so apologies if this is now moot but...)

 

I think calling current GF "stalkerish" is OTT given that, according to what son has told both OP AND her, they are still together.

 

If he had broken up with her, then maybe.

 

That said, I think it is inappropriate for you, Eleanor, to continue to talk with her. It is natural to feel sympathetic, but there are conflicts on all sorts of levels and I'm not sure you are doing her any good.

 

I would just subtly disengage from your son as his behaviour clearly is triggering you. Give him a wide berth for now. And screen your calls (as harsh as that may sound.)