Where to go from here?

[Granin]

@Tara: Oh definitely. Now the pain is subsiding, I'm really grateful for the experience and especially grateful I drew it out. I'll never ever do this again, and it was better to make this mistake young, make it hard, and never repeat it.

 

 

The drunken/high night was especially confusing. Maybe if that hadn't happened it would have been possible to be friends? She was doing all sorts of teasing, getting me to lick spilt beer off her arm, taking a coin out of her mouth with my mouth to pay for our stuff to go in the cloakroom. Grinding, kissing, then eventually sodding off like she got bored. Then spending the next day in bed watching a movie when I'm sure she has a perfectly good lounge? Anyway ...

 

 

But I think I'm kidding myself there, it made it worse and more confusing, but even without that, I'd still have feelings for her. At least it's made me realise she's far from perfect; she was aware of my feelings, and she was teasing them - it doesn't matter how much alcohol or weed is in your system, or mine, that's cruel. It has to end. I've got different advice from friends, one female friend told me to cut contact straight away because this had happened to her before, and she was right. Her boyfriend (one of my best friends who is friends with the girl's friend bla bla bla) told me the same and he was right. Some said keep pushing. Some said make her jealous. Usual stuff. But now I've experienced it fully for myself and felt all the pain and emotions, I'm infinitely better off than I would have been if I just blindly and faithfully followed the advice of others.

 

 

I've learnt so much, and at times I've felt so bad. I've had the worst Christmas I've ever had, and I usually love them like a kid, but that one horrid Christmas has tought me invaluable lessons. I've always dwelt on mistakes in every aspect of my life, cripplingly so, and it's one of the reasons I've struggled making decisions and been so forcefully apathetic until recently and meeting her. But this, feeling such regret and lowering of my esteem to the point where I felt physically ill, has driven a much needed lesson home.

 

 

@Soccer: Haha yeah I don't think those apply to your situation much, but mine it's something that concerned me a lot. It'll be over soon and I can move on. And definitely man, I learnt a ton! I'm actually at a stage now where I'm looking forward to this being over, and embracing what comes after, maybe it's a blip, but it's something.

[lollipop29]

Granin, This has happened to me. One of my best guy friends professed his feelings for me and when I couldn't return them, he said he didn't want to be friends anymore. It hurt a lot! Because we had a very deep friendship that I was not ready to throw away... but he thinks he is in love with me and he said he is extremely physically attracted to me. Do you think he will ever give our friendship another chance?

[lollipop29]

Granin, This has happened to me. One of my best guy friends professed his feelings for me and when I couldn't return them, he said he didn't want to be friends anymore. It hurt a lot! Because we had a very deep friendship that I was not ready to throw away... but he thinks he is in love with me and he said he is extremely physically attracted to me. Do you think he will ever give our friendship another chance?

(BUT, after reading your viewpoint, I understand why he had to do it. It still upsets me though. But our situations are not quite the same and I see that yours was making you miserable.)

[Granin]

Sorry to hear that, it's definitely an inconvenient situation to have

 

 

It depends how things develop. I could not see myself reconnecting with this girl. To truly forget about her and not feel anything for her anymore, I need to forget her as a person, because that's what I liked about her - who she was. I liked what she wanted from life, what she looked like, the things that she did. And in trying to forget her, avoiding contact is done to ensure that engaging with those things again doesn't rekindle anything in me that is once again going to be a cold fire.

 

 

It's difficult, because I'm guessing your friend has always liked you in that way and just hasn't had the courage before to say anything. He would have gone through the whole friendship secretly hoping you'd feel the same way, and now that he knows that you don't, it invalidates him and his perceptions and expectations and the world you exist in to him.

 

 

If I fell for someone else, completely, and truly didn't care at all about her romantically anymore, then I think I could reconnect with her and not worry about becoming emotionally involved again. But at that point, why would I reconnect? I have something with someone else then, and the pain, humiliation and failure - all thoughts and emotions that would just resurface from association when getting into contact again wouldn't be worth trudging through with someone I never had a friendship with, but someone I felt strongly about for a long time, in complete futility.

 

 

Then again my situation is different, ours seemed to start out in a dating phase and then I cocked it up irreparably and wrongly settled for something I wasn't every going to be happy with. His feelings for you probably festered for years, but if at any point there was a stage where you were just friends and he had no feelings (from my experience, I think this is unlikely) then maybe it would be possible to reinitiate a relationship on that level once he is over you. I just wouldn't expect that to happen if I were you, and I'd let him decide what to do next and how to proceed. Settling for a friendszone situation is extremely degrading and immasculating, and giving him that choice, however little it actually matters to him, is something that gives him a little degree of power, which is consoling.

[lollipop29]

Sorry to hear that, it's definitely an inconvenient situation to have

 

 

It depends how things develop. I could not see myself reconnecting with this girl. To truly forget about her and not feel anything for her anymore, I need to forget her as a person, because that's what I liked about her - who she was. I liked what she wanted from life, what she looked like, the things that she did. And in trying to forget her, avoiding contact is done to ensure that engaging with those things again doesn't rekindle anything in me that is once again going to be a cold fire.

 

 

It's difficult, because I'm guessing your friend has always liked you in that way and just hasn't had the courage before to say anything. He would have gone through the whole friendship secretly hoping you'd feel the same way, and now that he knows that you don't, it invalidates him and his perceptions and expectations and the world you exist in to him.

 

 

If I fell for someone else, completely, and truly didn't care at all about her romantically anymore, then I think I could reconnect with her and not worry about becoming emotionally involved again. But at that point, why would I reconnect? I have something with someone else then, and the pain, humiliation and failure - all thoughts and emotions that would just resurface from association when getting into contact again wouldn't be worth trudging through with someone I never had a friendship with, but someone I felt strongly about for a long time, in complete futility.

 

 

Then again my situation is different, ours seemed to start out in a dating phase and then I cocked it up irreparably and wrongly settled for something I wasn't every going to be happy with. His feelings for you probably festered for years, but if at any point there was a stage where you were just friends and he had no feelings (from my experience, I think this is unlikely) then maybe it would be possible to reinitiate a relationship on that level once he is over you. I just wouldn't expect that to happen if I were you, and I'd let him decide what to do next and how to proceed. Settling for a friendszone situation is extremely degrading and immasculating, and giving him that choice, however little it actually matters to him, is something that gives him a little degree of power, which is consoling.

 

Wow, crazy. I feel like he could have written that himself... I think this is probably EXACTLY how he feels. It's really nice to hear the honest truth from someone else who has been on the other side of the situation. It all makes sense now.

 

The only thing I would complain about is... he also told me that he wouldn't be friends w/ me if he was in a relationship. That totally caught me off guard, cuz I thought once he was over me everything would be fine. The fact that he doesn't think there is a place in his life for me EVEN if he is w/ someone else makes me feel unworthy of friendship

[Granin]

Wow, crazy. I feel like he could have written that himself... I think this is probably EXACTLY how he feels. It's really nice to hear the honest truth from someone else who has been on the other side of the situation. It all makes sense now.

 

The only thing I would complain about is... he also told me that he wouldn't be friends w/ me if he was in a relationship. That totally caught me off guard, cuz I thought once he was over me everything would be fine. The fact that he doesn't think there is a place in his life for me EVEN if he is w/ someone else makes me feel unworthy of friendship

 

 

Don't feel like you're unworthy or have done something wrong, or are a crap friend, it's just a situation that isn't going to work.

 

 

Continuing a friendship with you is going to be incredibly hurtful to him, be thankful he's realised that and isn't soldering on with it. It would not be a friendship, to either of you. You would always know he has feelings and have to act from then on with that in mind, which to be honest, isn't much of a burden for you, but still it's something.

 

 

For him it's horrible. He'd go on always, always hoping you'd change your mind. Assess everything you do and say and comb it for a sign of interest (and he probably has been doing this all along by the way). But he'd do it conciously knowing he's being stupid because now he knows you aren't interested. You moving along with your life and being with other guys would be absolutely awful to put up with. I haven't had to bear this so far in my situation, and when I manage to end it in the next few days, I hope it'll be with that intact. Just the mere idea of her with other guys and me having to tolerate it, and even synthetically encourage it, makes me feel sick and depressed. I've had that happen before with light crushes who were friends and it wasn't pleasant, but this girl, I feel for on a whole other level, and I absolutely couldn't bear that without ending the friendship (after feeling a considerable amount of needless hurt).

 

 

Remaining "friends" with you also really hinders his ability to move on and see other women in a sexual or romantic light. Right now, I'm still not really interested in anyone but this one girl, and that absolutely has to end now I know she doesn't care. Maybe after a long time it would happen with you, and he would lose interest, but he's going through a considerable amount of suffering to retain what to him, isn't a friendship, and never was.

 

 

You also have to consider that if he does move on to someone else, and reconnects with you then, he would have to inform his then current partner of who you are and were to him. And he'd either have to lie, or tell her outright, and to be honest, neither of those seem great do they? She wouldn't like the idea of him getting involved with someone he once had feelings for and wonder why he was, because let's face it, there's no real good reason from his perspective. It's not your fault at all, but you've also deeply humiliated him. It all stems down to you seeing eachother in a completely different light.

 

 

You are not a friend to him, you are a lot more than that, you are someone he wants to connect with on a much deeper and exclusive level. You actually mean a lot more to him than he does to you. But this doesn't mean you can't be a good friend for him, and the best way to do that is to let him handle this how he sees fit and to understand his decision. The girl in my situation actually did this, but I was too naive, humbled and attached to reject her offer of friendship the first time round. She knew I was hurt and said she would understand if I didn't wish to remain friends. I'm hoping that still rings true and me not bowing out originally hasn't complicated things for her.

 

 

Just remember, however bad you feel, he feels a whole lot worse. And it's hard for him too to end his relationship with you. Believe me I think this will be one of the hardest things I've had to do. I looooove talking to this girl, I love how she says "Heeeyyy" whenever she greets me on the phone, how she messes up her English and worries about it, but doesn't realise she's said something that's made me light up inside. She's changed my life, at least in immediacy, and I think she's the most beautiful person I've ever encountered. And I have to say goodbye, every emotional chemical firing from my brain is telling me not to and to not give up, but really, deep down, I have to.

 

 

Make it as easy as you can for him and just understand. That's the best thing you can do if you consider him your friend. He does not hate you or dislike you, quite the opposite, he just can't bear the fact you don't feel the same way.

[soccerrprp]

Granin,

 

Well said...

 

lollipop29,

 

...of course you're worthy of friendship.

[imtooconfused]

Sorry Granin, I don't mean to hijack your thread but this is an instructive topic...

 

Granin, This has happened to me. One of my best guy friends professed his feelings for me and when I couldn't return them, he said he didn't want to be friends anymore. It hurt a lot! Because we had a very deep friendship that I was not ready to throw away... but he thinks he is in love with me and he said he is extremely physically attracted to me. Do you think he will ever give our friendship another chance?

 

I speak from experience from the same perspective Granin has. For many people, having a deep friendship is central to having a strong LTR and having such a strong friendship with someone with whom you also have physical attraction will ALWAYS cause a desire to be more than friends. This is not a guy versus girl thing since the forces of attraction can go either way but in this case only one direction. Contrary to what you might think, it most likely is a genuine love and not just a desire to get into your pants. Granin will confirm this.

 

The fact that you share a deep personal connection with your friend, but tell him you do not see him as "date worthy" (in so many words) is absolutely devastating to his psyche. He may see you flirt with other guys, or hear about your current bf, maybe even see Facebook posts with other guys. All of these things torture him with the feeling of "what does she see in him that she does not see in me." Even after he meets the "woman of his life," he will likely still have these feelings for you and it would not be fair to him or his new partner to stay in his life. By forcing him to be friends with you when he wants to be a whole lot more is to put him through a living hell that no person who calls themself a friend would do. lollipop29, I suggest that you will be the best friend that you can be to him by letting him go.

[Granin]

Sorry Granin, I don't mean to hijack your thread but this is an instructive topic...

 

 

 

I speak from experience from the same perspective Granin has. For many people, having a deep friendship is central to having a strong LTR and having such a strong friendship with someone with whom you also have physical attraction will ALWAYS cause a desire to be more than friends. This is not a guy versus girl thing since the forces of attraction can go either way but in this case only one direction. Contrary to what you might think, it most likely is a genuine love and not just a desire to get into your pants. Granin will confirm this.

 

The fact that you share a deep personal connection with your friend, but tell him you do not see him as "date worthy" (in so many words) is absolutely devastating to his psyche. He may see you flirt with other guys, or hear about your current bf, maybe even see Facebook posts with other guys. All of these things torture him with the feeling of "what does she see in him that she does not see in me." Even after he meets the "woman of his life," he will likely still have these feelings for you and it would not be fair to him or his new partner to stay in his life. By forcing him to be friends with you when he wants to be a whole lot more is to put him through a living hell that no person who calls themself a friend would do. lollipop29, I suggest that you will be the best friend that you can be to him by letting him go.

 

 

No problem, I think it's interesting and therapeutic to explain how it feels in detail to someone on the other end, it's helping a lot actually.

 

 

And yes, while I don't want to say it's love because I don't think I've experienced enough of life yet to definitively know I can say how it feels, it is a very strong feeling and a lot more than just a physical attraction to you or a crush.

 

 

I've had situations before where I've lusted for girls who have had boyfriends at the time. I didn't care at all that they were with other people, I just wanted to be sexual with them. I never was of course, I behaved myself, but the point is that my feelings were mostly physical and I could put up with that no problem. They were friends of mine btw.

 

 

I've also had slightly more painful situations with crushes. Girls who were friends who I "fancied" and would have liked a relationship with. I had a long situation with a girl who I work with where we would almost get together and a couple weeks later she'd have a new boyfriend. I don't even fancy her anymore, but then it didn't really bother me too much that she dated 3 people from work and about 5 people outside work in the space of a year. I thought of her as a friend, but I also thought she was attractive. I was slightly jealous and bitter I guess? But I was friends with a lot of her BFs (my supervisor knew I had a thing for her before he dated her and said he's help set us up, 2 weeks later they were dating). It bothered me, but not a lot. Now I'm not infatuated at all, it's obvious to me that she has a bit of a problem.

 

 

This girl, is completely different. The mere idea of her being sexual with other guys really, really hurts, because she must see something in them she can't see in me. Even casual encounters, guys she won't get to know, they do something for her that I can't. Even worse is the idea she really does connect with someone and start a relationship, but I also prefer that idea at the same time, because I know she'd be happy and wasn't doing things with guys who didn't care about her - things she couldn't even contemplate doing with me. I care so much about her, but knowing it is one way and there always being a chance that I see her with another guy or hear from a friend that she's slept with someone ... yeah I need to stop contact with her before that happens, it would hurt far too much. I need to not know what she's doing. God I can't wait for this to be over.

 

 

 

In your rejection you've also severely damaged his self esteem. I could go to a club now and hit on 100 girls and get rejected by all of them and not have much of a bruised ego, because I didn't care on the outcome. He really, really cared. A lot. You know him really well, deep fascets of his personality and there must be something in there you don't like or something that deconstructs him as a sexual prospect. Let's get to the harsh truth here, and this is hard for me because it applies to me too as well as your friend. You're turned off because either:

 

 

1) He's not physically attractive

2) He's not masculine enough

3) Hasn't sexually escalated with you

4) You see him more as a brother

 

 

All of these are FAILURES on his part. He doesn't feel like a man when you think of him any other way but a friend when he wants more. Men don't work the same way as women in regards to attraction. If you are physically attractive, we will regard you in a sexual way. That is the bottom line. We may not love you, or even care about you, but we want to have sex with you. We will be a lot more attracted if there is more there, but the bare minimum is for you to just physically be appealing to us. That's all it takes.

 

 

So obviously when men have a failure with women they usually align it to be something to do with their looks, and it may be. Men who are a bit more wisened will have come to realise attracting women is a lot more complicated than just looks, but all that does is make you realise you have failed on a mulitude on levels instead of just one that you can't do a whole lot about. The good thing is you can learn and become better and presenting yourself as a sexual being to women, the bad thing is that yeah, you really messed up. You and your friend could have a great relationship, but he's failed to present himself to you in a way you'd find attractive.

 

 

This often isn't even a case of "oh we're just not right for eachother" or "we're not meant to be together". Your personalities are probably deeply compatable and you're probably spiritually similar to have developed such a good friendship. If you did go out with eachother, it would probably go really well. But you don't see him in that way because he hasn't gone about things the right way. It really is a failure, not "one of those things". There are communities of people who know how to get women to see them that way straight off the bat, and tons of people who can do it naturally. In the modern age it's something men really struggle with. We just need to get you see us a certain way BEFORE we start connecting deeply, otherwise we end up in this pit there is no way to escape.

 

 

I know where I went wrong and I know she was initially interested, and that makes it hurt all the more. I did something really stupid and impulsive and panicked and cocked it up with someone I really, really wanted to develop something with. You have to consider the investment your friend has put in too. How long has he known you? That's probably how long he has liked you. I put in over a month into the girl before I ruined it all, your friend has likely wanted you for years. Years invalidated.

 

 

The best thing to do is let him go. There's no way to salvage the "friendship" you had. Your perception of the relationship was off, and so was his. Time to end it.

[Granin]

Probably going to need more to go on ...

[imtooconfused]

This often isn't even a case of "oh we're just not right for eachother" or "we're not meant to be together". Your personalities are probably deeply compatable and you're probably spiritually similar to have developed such a good friendship. If you did go out with eachother, it would probably go really well. But you don't see him in that way because he hasn't gone about things the right way. It really is a failure, not "one of those things". There are communities of people who know how to get women to see them that way straight off the bat, and tons of people who can do it naturally. In the modern age it's something men really struggle with. We just need to get you see us a certain way BEFORE we start connecting deeply, otherwise we end up in this pit there is no way to escape.

 

Yes, there are communities of guys who can bag a woman by presenting themself as super attractive. But the personality that these guys present at the club is not the real person that they are. It's just a facade to get in the door. There are lots of threads here about guys who changed after the first date. This may have been you Granin when you met your latest friend, trying to be something more attractive to get in the door.

 

My feeling, though, is that it's a waste of time to try to be something other than your true self. So when one forms a bond of friendship with someone and that is attractive enough to the woman to be a mutual bond, which must be something valuable to her. But in these cases friendship alone is obviously not enough, which is understandable but unfortunate. In reality, if they put more value in the other aspects of "a relationship", despite saying the "friendship is deep," these people are NOT right for you no matter how well you think you get along.

 

It's impossible to continue to be friends with someone who can't understand what it means to have unreciprocated feelings for someone. I find it very selfish of someone to accept your time and emotions as a friend, all the while setting up barriers preventing you from being more than friends, knowing this is what really is in your heart, barriers that they willingly let down for other people. Really how can someone do that to someone they want to call a friend? It's one thing to not know a friend is attracted to you, but to knowingly put someone through that is actually quite mean.

[Granin]

Yes, there are communities of guys who can bag a woman by presenting themself as super attractive. But the personality that these guys present at the club is not the real person that they are. It's just a facade to get in the door. There are lots of threads here about guys who changed after the first date. This may have been you Granin when you met your latest friend, trying to be something more attractive to get in the door.

 

My feeling, though, is that it's a waste of time to try to be something other than your true self. So when one forms a bond of friendship with someone and that is attractive enough to the woman to be a mutual bond, which must be something valuable to her. But in these cases friendship alone is obviously not enough, which is understandable but unfortunate. In reality, if they put more value in the other aspects of "a relationship", despite saying the "friendship is deep," these people are NOT right for you no matter how well you think you get along.

 

It's impossible to continue to be friends with someone who can't understand what it means to have unreciprocated feelings for someone. I find it very selfish of someone to accept your time and emotions as a friend, all the while setting up barriers preventing you from being more than friends, knowing this is what really is in your heart, barriers that they willingly let down for other people. Really how can someone do that to someone they want to call a friend? It's one thing to not know a friend is attracted to you, but to knowingly put someone through that is actually quite mean.

 

 

I disagree with your first point.

 

 

The whole thing that women do find attractive, and men to, and the thing that these communities and "naturals" seem to embody so well, is being yourself. The best part of yourself. It isn't so much an "act" as it is learning to trust yourself, because that makes the biggest difference. Everything else is just some pointers to not make some superficial mistakes. The problem I had was I got drunk accidentally our second meeting, then I was hung over for our third, then I panicked and lost it. I was already in the door a little. She approached me initially. All my friends noticed she was interested so I don't think my radar was off. We spent a majority of the night together, oblivious to anyone else. She asked a friend if I was single.

 

 

I didn't have time then to think "I need to impress her" because I was so taken aback by her approaching me. There was no overthinking or second guessing because I was just engrossed and surprised. The second time I met her was when I was synethetic and not myself. I was drunk to the point where it definitely affected what I was doing, but not to the point where I did anything obscenely bad. But it probably didn't help. The next meeting I was definitely "off", I felt so ill and unattractive. We had arranged for me to go see her the week after and she said I could stay at her place that time. I overanalysed that, overanalysed a ton of other stuff and just didn't feel good about myself. Then I panicked, felt I really had to make a move and well ... check the other thread for details, it was mortifying. Probably the bravest thing I've ever done but definitely the stupidest.

 

 

The routine stuff and a lot of the PUA drivel I do think is nonsense. But there are some key lessons that can be taken away. You DO need to radiate a good energy and be positive and smile. You DO need to sexually escalate properly. That last one is especially important because it prevents situations like the friend zone from arising. You can be yourself and make a great first impression on someone, but a lot of people don't have the natural "instict" to be sexual without overthinking it. It's a separate problem from "being yourself" for a lot of guys. I'm not very naturally flirty or physical, it's something I have to concsiously think about and be in the right state of mind to pull off. I've had to train and continue to train it into my brain. I'm just gutted I mucked it up on someone I really, really liked.

 

 

As to your last point, I think it depends. I think if the girl pressures the man to stay friends and kicks off if he doesn't wish to, then yes, she is being inconsiderate and mean. But if she merely offers the option whilst clearly indicating she would understand if you don't take it - then the blame is really on you. That happened in my case, and the blame is entirely upon me.

[Granin]

Well I think this situation has come to an end.

 

 

I met her 4 times over the course of the weekend. Friday in a group setting at a pub, I was tired and quiet for most of it but we talked a little. Nothing much happened there I just wanted to go to bed, but we talked for a while.

 

 

The next day we met for coffee, just an hour as she had work. Went well, I think we both enjoyed it and caught up more. Then we were in a group setting later at a club, I proactively avoided her and honestly I think it was reciprocated. I got dancing with a few girls then spent the rest of the night too drunk to carry on. We had a brief conversation outside, she asked me to go out with her for a smoke. It seemed like she was trying to figure out how drunk I was, I'm guessing she didn't want a repeat of last time, and neither did I.

 

 

Next day we met for lunch, then went back to hers again and watched a movie, she made a really nice cheesecake that honestly made me reconsider the whole thing. She walked half way to the train station with me then had to veer off to meet some friends. We hugged, said goodbye and see you soon.

 

 

Today I sent the message.

 

 

It's a surreal experience saying goodbye to a friend knowing it's the last time you'll see them, and act casual about it. At the moment, I don't feel too upset, just kind of empty? I know I'm going to feel **** about it at some point and want to get back in contact and everything, but right now I don't feel much.

 

 

And I know seeing her that many times again when all but one could have been avoided, and doing it so close to breaking contact will probably make things even more painful, but, I knew it was going to be the last few times I was going to see her, and those last few times spent with her are worth going through some extra pain.

[fungusamungus]

Sorry Granin, I don't mean to hijack your thread but this is an instructive topic...

 

 

 

I speak from experience from the same perspective Granin has. For many people, having a deep friendship is central to having a strong LTR and having such a strong friendship with someone with whom you also have physical attraction will ALWAYS cause a desire to be more than friends. This is not a guy versus girl thing since the forces of attraction can go either way but in this case only one direction. Contrary to what you might think, it most likely is a genuine love and not just a desire to get into your pants. Granin will confirm this.

 

The fact that you share a deep personal connection with your friend, but tell him you do not see him as "date worthy" (in so many words) is absolutely devastating to his psyche. He may see you flirt with other guys, or hear about your current bf, maybe even see Facebook posts with other guys. All of these things torture him with the feeling of "what does she see in him that she does not see in me." Even after he meets the "woman of his life," he will likely still have these feelings for you and it would not be fair to him or his new partner to stay in his life. By forcing him to be friends with you when he wants to be a whole lot more is to put him through a living hell that no person who calls themself a friend would do. lollipop29, I suggest that you will be the best friend that you can be to him by letting him go.

100% disagree. This is the narrative is that invented by people who feel entitled to nookie from their female friends who they've put in time to get to know without putting the moves on them. Yes, when it comes down to it, that is ALL it is, and people cannot admit this to themselves because they think that they're too nice and too sensitive to ever put physical intimacy with that person above intangible qualities like personality, etc.

 

This is not a "genuine love", it's an "idealized love".

 

If you cannot go back to being friends again at some point, then you were never truly friends in the first place. You just convinced yourself you were to get closer to sleeping with the other party.

[imtooconfused]

fungusamungus, don't presume to speak for my situation. To others who may stumble on this thread, that person obviously does not speak as one who has experienced being truly friendzoned.

[fungusamungus]

fungusamungus, don't presume to speak for my situation. To others who may stumble on this thread, that person obviously does not speak as one who has experienced being truly friendzoned.

No?

 

I met one of my closest friends when I was 14 years old. We met the first day of high school. We went to high school together for 4 years, college together for 4 years and I lived with her for 2 years, during which I saw her everyday and we hung out everyday. I'm 28 now. I have known this person for 14 years. She now lives 1000 miles away, and we still talk 3-4 times a month. I was attracted to her the first day that I met her, it only got worse every day and every time I hung out with her. And it was that way as she proceeded to date one of my best friends for over 3 years throughout high school even whilst he treated her like crap and I had to simultaneously listen to him gloat about their sex life and her cry when she got upset about things. They broke up at graduation, and I finally sacked up enough to say something, after 4 years of basically being her best friend and I got the "sorry, I just don't feel that way, I love you, but as a friend". Obviously I was crushed, and I wanted some space away from her and we only talked sparingly that last summer until college started. We started hanging out again, and we became friends again. And yes, I watched the parade of men that tend to come and go during a girl's freshman year of college, and yes, it stung for a while. But to have cut her out completely after we had been so close for so long would've made me far more miserable than seeing a girl who wasn't interested in dating me date other people. And after a year or so, I got over it an moved on. We've been friends ever since.

 

But I guess that's not "truly friendzoned"... right? No of course not, that definitely doesn't count...

 

Story number 2...

 

There was another girl that I met when I was in school a few years back. Tall, blonde, thin, gorgeous, looks like a model. Similar situation, she was really sweet, we got really close, we hung out all the time and talked all the time. It was very easy for me to eventually like her, I didn't let myself fall quite as deep this time around because I always figured that she was probably just a tad out of my league anyway. But... same situation. She just didn't feel the same way about me. Again, it stung, she went on date other people, you feel bad about it, but she was the most awesome friend that anyone could ever ask for and she has single-handedly provided more emotional support for me than I think anyone else in my life has. I have no interest in ever being romantically with her now because I could never give up the benefits of being friends with her.

 

You're right dude, I know nothing about being friendzoned.

 

I suppose you can call me a sap or an idiot for sticking it out with women who weren't interested in anything beyond friendship, that's perfectly fine, but since I know full and well that they still make my everyday life better, I don't really have any regrets in doing so. I have more regrets about the ones that I DID cut out than I do about the ones that I didn't.

Edited March 5, 2013 by fungusamungus

[imtooconfused]

Bravo fungusamungus, you win your props for successfully navigating "the friendzone." You still do not speak for others who are not as lucky as you, particularly your opinion that those who could not handle being just friends are simply being bitter because they did not get their "nookie."

[Granin]

I feel really bad now. The emptiness is gone and I feel horrible. She's seen the message but not replied so I have no idea how she feels about it, but I can't wait out for a response because that defeats the purpose of what I've done. I feel really down, nasty and I miss her.

 

 

That isn't all it is fungus. I didn't end the friendship because I wanted to get in her pants and she wouldn't let me, that's a very rudimentary and oblique way of looking at it.

 

 

Every time I look in her eyes and she looks back in mine, I know she's not feeling the same way as me and it hurts. Every time I see her out getting hit on by other guys and enjoying herself, it hurts. It's just so painful and humiliating and like you before, I convinced myself that her friendship was worth the suffering, but I just can't take it anymore. Months of feeling really sad, and she'll just be going about her business like normal.

 

 

It's been making me miserable and really having a negative affect on my life, I just hope I've made the right decision.

 

 

I also feel really embarrassed and weird that I feel so strongly based off so little. We've met about 10 times in total, but my feelings are stronger than for anyone I've ever been infatuated with.

 

 

I just have to forget about her and hope I heal fast now. I'm not sure why she hasn't replied though, either because she doesn't care? She's pissed off? She's hurt? I thought at the least she'd say goodbye, and I thought my message was nice and amicable. She said she'd understand before, maybe I've made things worse now.

 

 

If I only had a time machine

[fungusamungus]

That isn't all it is fungus. I didn't end the friendship because I wanted to get in her pants and she wouldn't let me, that's a very rudimentary and oblique way of looking at it.

Actually it's not. It just means that you were never her friend to begin with. She was YOUR friend... you always had HER friendship, but she never had yours, because yours always came with strings and expectations attached. Consider this... because once she turned you down, you didn't try to move on or anything else, you simply kept trying to turn things around. My point is simply that that isn't true friendship, and that your grief over closing the door on her is has less to do with losing her as a friend than it does as closing the door on her as a love interest. You're might consider what I said to be "rudimentary", but I really... it's not. It's simply less romanticized than the way you look at it. The general idea is still the same. Your entire relationship with her was built on the prospects of a romantic relationship.

Every time I look in her eyes and she looks back in mine, I know she's not feeling the same way as me and it hurts. Every time I see her out getting hit on by other guys and enjoying herself, it hurts. It's just so painful and humiliating and like you before, I convinced myself that her friendship was worth the suffering, but I just can't take it anymore. Months of feeling really sad, and she'll just be going about her business like normal.

 

It's been making me miserable and really having a negative affect on my life, I just hope I've made the right decision.

 

 

I also feel really embarrassed and weird that I feel so strongly based off so little. We've met about 10 times in total, but my feelings are stronger than for anyone I've ever been infatuated with.

Because you've idealized her. You've put her on such a giant pedestal that there is no way that you can't convince yourself that you're not in love with her. And you are, but like I said before... it's not a "genuine" love, it's an "idealized" love. It's real, but it's misplaced. And yeah, I know it hurts like hell, but it's more than recoverable if you actually TRY to move on from it. Which you haven't done. You haven't really tried to be friends, you've simply tried to use it as a launching pad for something more and continued to do so.

 

I'm not trying to make you out to be a bad guy, I know you aren't. In fact, you're probably a super nice guy to her, which is why she loves having you around and why she cares about you. But a romantic relationship with her meant more to you than being friends with her, and I'm simply not convinced that that's a "true" friendship. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I just have to forget about her and hope I heal fast now. I'm not sure why she hasn't replied though, either because she doesn't care? She's pissed off? She's hurt? I thought at the least she'd say goodbye, and I thought my message was nice and amicable. She said she'd understand before, maybe I've made things worse now.

 

 

If I only had a time machine

You sent the message to elicit a response. Not for closure, or to explain what was on your mind, but you're trying to elicit a response here. Coupled with the circumstances under which you sent it, there is definitely a tone of passive aggressiveness in it.

 

The first message that you posted was fine. You should've sent that and have been done with it. This one...? It says enough to make her fear losing your friendship, but does not explain to her why, and is just going to be confusing. No offense, but your actions have been maddeningly inconsistent, you hung out with her all weekend, you've told her you were ok with being friends, then you told her you weren't, and then you still hang out with her and still talk to her, etc. and then you spring this on her out of the blue. You can't complain about a girl sending you mixed signals without looking at what you've been doing. There is a good chance that she simply just is sick of dealing with the drama surrounding the situation. The entire point that girls want to stay friends with guys instead of escalating is to avoid drama (or rather, they don't feel like the risk of drama is worth it), and this sounds like a terribly dramatic situation without you guys even dating.

[Granin]

This is the message I sent, albeit with a few little last minute edits:

 

 

Hey, look I think it might be best if we stopped talking to each other. I know I said it would be fine for us to be friends, and I honestly thought it would be, but I don't think I'm handling it very well at all. I lied when I said this had happened to me before - it hasn't, I think I just wanted you to think it wasn't too big a deal for me,so I don't know if I've gone about everything the right way. You're a phenomenal person and I get so much enjoyment out of just talking to you, but I think I'm just ultimately torturing myself by trying to develop a friendship with you, because for the foreseeable future I'm always going to hope for something more substantial without there being any hope at all. It's starting to make me feel really bad and affect opportunities I could have with other people. It might sound weird, and I suppose it is, but you've really changed the way I see a lot of things for the better and inspired me to start trying again in life and be the best person I can, and in such a short space of time too. I hope I'll carry on acting upon that, improve myself and start living a bit more, then maybe I won't look so lost If things go the way I plan over the next year or so, I'll have a lot to thank you for, so I'll say a massive thank you now just in case. I'm really truly sorry if this seems sudden and for not doing this on Christmas Eve, I honestly didn't know any better and just wanted to get to know you even more. I completely understand why you'd feel the way you do, and I don't blame you; but eventually I'll find someone as good as you again, not be so stupid and have done enough by then to be good for them too. I wish you all the luck in the universe; I hope you do really well in your degree, I hope you'll get to visit all the countries you want to (which is pretty much all of them I think), and I hope you don't get deported . Have a fantastic life. Sorry for going on for so long, but it's important to me that you know how I feel and why I think this should be done. I need to completely forget about you. I know it's selfish but I hope you understand. Goodbye K****.

 

 

I don't think that's too horrible? Or maybe it is?

 

 

Please man, I honestly didn't carry on the friendship conciously thinking "something will change and she'll end up wanting to be with me". I WANT to be friends with her, but I just can't control how I feel. I didn't make any move after she turned me down aside from the drunken night. I've been in the same bed with her twice and I haven't tried anything. I've tried distancing myself, talking to her less, flirting with other girls. But I'm not interested in them while she's on my mind.

 

 

And I know what I feel for her is completely stupid, juvenile and misplaced, that makes it even worse. I feel like an IDIOT for feeling this way but I can't stop myself. I really, really tried here. I really gave it a go to be her friend. I've never experienced this before so I didn't know how horrible it would feel.

 

 

There's been little drama aside from this message and making my move a while ago. All the times we've met have been nice and pleasant.

 

 

I'm not expecting a response. I'd like one, because I think our friendship, or whatever it was, was a positive thing and I'd like to end it well on both our terms. But if she doesn't respond, it'll nag at me not knowing what she thinks or how she feels, but I'll go on and accept that as it is.

 

 

I feel so guilty and so bad, she's such a lovely person. It's so painful

[imtooconfused]

Actually it's not. It just means that you were never her friend to begin with. She was YOUR friend... you always had HER friendship, but she never had yours, because yours always came with strings and expectations attached. Consider this... because once she turned you down, you didn't try to move on or anything else, you simply kept trying to turn things around. My point is simply that that isn't true friendship, and that your grief over closing the door on her is has less to do with losing her as a friend than it does as closing the door on her as a love interest. You're might consider what I said to be "rudimentary", but I really... it's not. It's simply less romanticized than the way you look at it. The general idea is still the same. Your entire relationship with her was built on the prospects of a romantic relationship.

 

This is probably a fair criticism. However, I will always continue to look for friendship as the basis for a long term relationship. My path to a relationship remains friendship -> romance -> sex (I feel others have it back assward). Therefore, I will only look for a relationship amongst friends. If a friend becomes a close friend but eventually puts up barriers to moving to romance, I have to move back a notch to casual friend/acquaintance. It's impossible for me to be a buddy with someone I have a romantic interest in. And if they cannot respect that, they cannot consider themselves my friend.

[imtooconfused]

Granin, your letter seems pretty good, kinda mushy but honest and straight forward. I just want to warn you that you shouldn't expect much of a response from this message other than "I got your message." After all, you are asking for her to stop communicating with you. Despite how that realization makes you feel, it's just what you need.

[Granin]

I know I don't expect a response, I do wonder how she is and how she feels about it, but the I suppose the point of this is to not worry about things like that anymore.