Valentine's Day Heartbreak

[Lillyfree]

straightforward case of madonna-whore complex ....

 

not sure what his wife's deal is though.

[weedsandposies]

So you're in shape, and the wifey? Does she turn you on...because you say you didn't have much of a sexual attraction even in the beginning when things are typically the hottest. How was your sex life before getting married? Lastly, the open marriage thingy, it seems a bit of a double standard you wanting to screw around but against it for W.

 

There all types of posters here... stop being so sensitive.

[whichwayisup]

No, we never ever talk about the no sex thing. Never. But I know there is no way she'd think it okay for me to get sex elsewhere. I can't explain it but I don't want sex elsewhere but I do want sex.

 

Why not? Something feels really amiss here. Your wife you say you love, she is your best friend yet you cannot speak to her about sex or no sex? Or possibly having an open marriage or even maybe divorcing?

[chaser0195]

SweetpeaMy wife and I were engaged for many years. All pending my lack of enthusiasm for getting married. But she is a great person, nobody has anything but great things to say about her, she deeply loves me, and one day I just decided that I owed her. So I said let's do it. And we did it. The only thing I regret about that decision is the total lack of sex. That is my only complaint. And the weird thing is, she is beautiful. Inside and out. Very responsible, steady, dependable. I almost wish she'd have an affair so we could call it off. I will never "try" to hurt her. I'm really a mess, ain't I? I just dont understand why this came to be. But I do know I deeply fell in love with my ex-special person. Why I did that, especially the way she mal-treated me, I don't understand either. Either why she abused me or why I kept hangine in there. (Btw, I realize "abuse" is a loaded, catchall phrase. But she really did, even once by her admission. Weird thing is, it took me forever to realize I was in an abusive relationship. And I'm not the type of guy you would think could fall into that cycle. But I did, and it shames me to admit it.)

 

Hmmmm, lets see. You state that you didn't really want to marry your wife and you did anyway because you owed it to her? So you are saying you married her and lead her to believe you were madly, truly, honestly in love with her but you weren't ? If that's the case then you ARE what you claim to hate, a liar. What exactly did you gain from marrying someone that you didn't really want to marry to begin with? And did you think that by marrying someone you didn't really want that you would live a perfect and passion filled marriage?

[Eggplant]

My wife and I were engaged for many years. All pending my lack of enthusiasm for getting married. But she is a great person, nobody has anything but great things to say about her, she deeply loves me, and one day I just decided that I owed her. So I said let's do it. And we did it.

 

Perhaps you are longing for the kind of magic in-love feeling because it never was truly there with your wife. I hope no man ever marries me because he thinks he is in debt. Did she push you to marry her? Has she ever talked to you about why you aren't intimate?

 

If my questions are too intrusive, sorry...

[whichwayisup]

So you're in shape, and the wifey? Does she turn you on...because you say you didn't have much of a sexual attraction even in the beginning when things are typically the hottest. How was your sex life before getting married? Lastly, the open marriage thingy, it seems a bit of a double standard you wanting to screw around but against it for W.

 

There all types of posters here... stop being so sensitive.

 

Is this something? You don't want your wife involved with another man? How much of this is about you and not your wife? You want sex, you cheated. You claim you love your wife but do not want to engage her in having sex with you nor do you want to speak to her about your non sex life. What are you afraid of? Losing her or being alone? I am just trying to understand your situation.

 

I just decided that I owed her

 

So you married someone out of obligation, not love, not respect. I say respect because you've had a 5 year affair and you knew from the get go you married her for the wrong reasons.

Edited February 15, 2013 by whichwayisup

[stevie_23]

The sexless marriage thing kind of seems similar to my long term relationship, though I don't know if my situation's different due to it being a lesbian relationship (that "lesbian bed death" stereotype thing).

 

Sex was never a big thing for me and out of the almost 12 years we've been together, we were "intimate" (though not often) for the first 3 years or so. I think in the 4th year we had sex once, and after that...nothing.

 

Up until about 2-3 years ago, I ignored this issue. I was still totally in love with my partner and all was perfect except for the sex side. Occasionally she'd bring it up (she always had wanted more sex than I did) but I felt SO awkward nothing was ever discussed. I didn't know why I felt the way I did (or didn't, as the case was).

 

After some thought and a few more years of introspection, I finally have come to the conclusion that I may not be gay at all, and I have seen her as more of a friend and companion than a lover. I have felt embarrassed to even be seen as remotely "sexual" in front of her, or towards her, and I cannot feel like a sexual being around her. When I remember our early days when we were sexually active, I feel embarrassed. Not that it's a bad thing at all, they were good times, but now? It makes me cringe. It feels the same as if I were trying to entice my best friend or sister or something. Just...wrong.

 

But despite this, I still love and care for her. She is an amazing and beautiful partner, like the OP's wife seems to be. And I too had an affair with a "special" person, and it ended recently too, also like the OP.

 

And ALSO like the OP, my "married" sex life was non-existent for many years prior to even meeting my ex-MM. The only thing my affair did was show me that I was no longer in love with my partner and instead was in love with my ex-MM.

 

As far as why the OP and his wife don't get divorced? Well...he loves her obviously. He may be happy enough to settle in terms of having a good, happy marriage that lacks a certain (fairly important) aspect, but eventually he may have to get that aspect elsewhere.

 

I used to tell myself my affair had no effect on my long term relationship, but it did. When you're always thinking and dreaming about someone else you're not focused on your partner. When you're wanting to be with someone else, wanting to spend time with someone else and your partner cannot be around when you are with that other person, it will end up getting in the way of your relationship. You switch those "in love" feelings and the effort you make from your partner to your affair, and your marriage actions become "maintenance".

 

In terms of the OP's ex being convinced he was lying (about sleeping with his wife, among other things I guess), I agree with the other people in this thread who have said she was sleeping with other people so would have a hard time believing he were not, and people who have affairs lie (and like the OP, I too have never directly LIED to my partner about my affair, because I never had to, but of course, avoidance, ommission, making up reasons to get free time or whatever, it's all enabling the secretive behaviour required for the affair), so...

 

My ex-MM SEEMED to be fairly honest about sleeping with his wife. He would tell me sometimes she would "pounce" on him (go down on him, sorry for TMI!) and he didn't like it, would feel lost afterwards, and alone. He said it "didn't really work" (you know what I mean) and all he wanted was me. I sometimes saw how he reacted with me (videos and such), so...yeah. I knew I "worked" for him of course, and I assume (being a man), he didn't HATE when he and his wife did engage in some intimate stuff, but I believe what he said. He had switched his feelings from her to me and so he really ideally only wanted me in that way.

 

He did say they were never very sexually active, but they were not completely non-existent in that way, and on their honeymoon (last August for a week on a tropical island), he said they "tried to be lovers". He said it made her happy, and I think he felt ok about it too. I didn't mind. They ARE married, after all.

 

I would've been HIDEOUSLY hurt and jealous if he was sleeping with, or had emotional attachments to, other women outside his marriage (besides me), but his wife? I didn't mind if they were together in that way. How could I?

[whichwayisup]

There is something I need to bring up too. You say your OW is mean. Well, be prepared that she *could* tell your wife about the 5 year affair. Never say never. It can happen. Just something to think about - Maybe confessing to your wife..Which is worse? you confessing or your OW telling your wife the truth?

[stevie_23]

Also in terms of how open either of us were about our activities with our partners, I never hid or played down things my partner and I did together. There was no sex, so my ex-MM never had to contend with that, but we do have dinner together out at a restaurant every Friday night, do say we love each other, spend the weekends together all day, go to bed together on weekend nights, go on happy vacations together. He used to tell me he found this hard, but he didn't want me to hide any of it because then he'd feel worse. HE wanted to be the one I did all this stuff with, and I understand that.

 

Also, if the OP never really felt the huge need to marry his wife, and he seems to have done it mainly out of obligation and duty, well...the whole relationship has been based on that. Maintenance, obligation, duty, responsibility, caring but...no big in love, all consuming deep love thing. No physical attraction that translates into a sexual relationship. All of this stuff is coming from the ex-affair relationship, not the marriage. And it seems the stability and happiness of the marriage is confined to the marriage and there was not much stability in terms of the affair.

 

So if the OP has never associated true love with his marriage or wife, no matter how good SHE is, he has never had those feelings, then maybe he can't even work out how to really be married to her in the "proper" way and be 100% with her only...

 

I'm sorry if these 2 posts are completely rambly and incoherent. I have a headache.

[Leo the Homely Lion]

I'm reading all your posts as they come in and will respond to each when I get on my laptop in a couple hours. Gotta watch my MSNBC! Some your posts are sage and trenchant, and add-ons if you are NUTS. But so am I. She told me on Valentine's Day and though I always did kinda know, now I do for sure. And I am crushed. Yes I acknowledge that she did to me what I did to my wife. I have no answer to that. I'm busted. But if it were easy to figure out, I would not be here.

[stevie_23]

She didn't QUITE do to you what you did to your wife...it's not quite the same.

 

She seemed to abuse you and treat you poorly in your relationship. She cheated on you when you thought your relationship was exclusive (apart from your spouses of course). She broke your heart on Valentine's Day.

 

What you are doing to your wife, in my opinion, is existing in your marriage in a way that attempts to keep it going in a stable manner while satisfying your own requirements for happiness. And I don't mean that in a negative way, like you purposefully went out 5 years ago looking for sex or to fall in love with someone so you could survive in your marriage. No no. You fell in love and you then preferred to go forward into that relationship rather than shut it down before it really happened, because of your needs that are not (and maybe never have been) met in your marriage.

[Realist3]

This thread is so sad it makes me not want to have sex tonight.

 

Ehhh... not really.

 

I'd be interested to hear the other side of this tale.

 

OP, have you ever considered MC?

[Realist3]

We were sexless during much of our long engagement -- and we have not consummated our marriage, long before my special person came along, so there goes dreamungoftiger's otherwise understandable point that my special person had much if anything to do with causing the sexlessness of my otherwise great marriage.

 

This is way beyond A-B-normal. Seems like you have a roommate, not a marriage.

[LFH]

You've never consumated your marriage? I think that means you qualify for an annullment if you want.

[spice4life]

That's just incredibly sad. I cannot imagine being in a sexless marriage. Not sure what advice to even offer on that one other than communication...maybe? I dunno. The only other thing that comes to mind is how about trying to start over with your wife. I know it sounds totally silly, but not sure what else you can do. Couples that reconcile after infidelity seem to do it once they move past the pain and hurt.

[Eggplant]

It doesn't make any sense. I'm wondering if the story is fictional.

 

Both of you are content without sex and it never even occured to either of you to ask the other one about it? Well if you are happy with that, then best wishes. Except that you are having an affair! Hence your feelings seem to contradict each other. Are you sure you're really so happy with your sexless marriage?

 

May I ask, what is your cultural background? Maybe in some cultures marriage isn't supposed to be sexually fullfilling?

 

The bottom line is that I can't even understand what you want, so I don't know how to help.

[SidLyon]

... But I do know I deeply fell in love with my ex-special person. Why I did that, especially the way she mal-treated me, I don't understand either. Either why she abused me or why I kept hangine in there. (Btw, I realize "abuse" is a loaded, catchall phrase. But she really did, even once by her admission. Weird thing is, it took me forever to realize I was in an abusive relationship. And I'm not the type of guy you would think could fall into that cycle. But I did, and it shames me to admit it.)

 

I do appreciate everyone's responses. And I'll address them after I eat some supper. But I must say I'm struck by the somewhat uniform hostility in tone. What produces that?

 

...But I know there is no way she'd think it okay for me to get sex elsewhere. ...

Why is everyone automatically in the wife's side here and, to my limited experience here, never on the OW's side? Is it because if the status if the posters, do you think? Or are affairs just inherently and invariably bad? I mean my special woman was mean as a snake but I dug her. And her standing seems to be disparaged here just because of her initials OW.

 

This is my first response and maybe you'll find my response hostile and on your wifes's side.

 

The way I see it a man who lies to his wife in order to get her to live her life in a certain way (eg stay married to him, look after the kids, be his best friend, do the housework, continue to have sex with him, share the finances etc) is actively abusing his wife. Look up anything on the Internet about infidelity and you will pretty well find many commentators and experts that make the specific assertion that infidelity is one of the worst forms of emotional abuse that one spouse can inflict on the other.

 

Maybe not in every case, but certainly in many. I'm now a survivor of this myself. My husband has never physically abused me in any other way but his manipulation of me during his many years long affair left me traumatized for a long time.

 

So far I've not seen anything in your thread to indicate that you are the exception in any way. This would be why I would be hostile to you because so far you've shown yourself to being the sort of man who abuses his wife. It was interesting that you have identified that you were in an abusive relationship, but it was not you the abuser, but the OW.

 

I must admit I've not heard of a sexless marriage from the get-go, so you do have some sympathy from me there.

[stevie_23]

But he wouldn't view it as "punishing" her, as he doesn't think his affair and his feelings of unhappiness had any effect on their marriage and relationship, you know?

 

I do agree they need to talk about things and see where to go from here. Even if he can't face coming clean about the affair, if they talked openly about their feelings, maybe something could be sorted out.

 

(this coming from me, who is in a very similar situation of a completely sexless "marriage" of sorts, and who was in a deeply-in-love affair for almost 2 years, and won't talk openly about anything because it's too awkward and hard)

[Leo the Homely Lion]

True.

 

[1] OP, I am curious as to why your marriage lacks sexual intimacy. If you don't mind sharing. I know it is painful to not connect with someone you love in that way.

 

[2] As far as the OW in your case. Her being flirtatious with your close friend had to have signaled something for you. Also her constant doubting of your sexual activities can several things. She may honestly be from the club of "If he will cheat with you , he will cheat on you." Valid to many. Or...she may be using this as a reason to not fully invest in your relationship with you. To protect her heart from the fact you are not leaving your wife....or...because she wants to keep her options open.

 

[3] If you and your wife are not being intimate for years and there are no children , why not divorce and pursue the kind of relationship you desire? Let your wife find someone else as well. Five years of being unfaithful not just sexually but falling inlove , is cruel.

You both can have what you want out of your life. Maybe AP would stop seeing other men if she knew you would be in an authentic relationship with her.

 

Good luck

.

 

[1] Honestly I don't know why zero sex. We just settled into this buddy thing and that's where we're at still. And to suddenlly, like, get all seduction-y just not even in the cards. Counseling, might help. But I seriously doubt it. It's just not there. I don't think of her that way. And she doesn't probably think of me that way either. I mean we never ever ever talk about it. It's too bad. We have everything else. Respect, kindness, love. We never much argue anymore. Except the other day about shoveling the driveway but that was no big deal. I really don't know why not any sex. It's f'n weird. And I don't think of this situation for long periods of time and then when I do, I can't get my head around it and give up quick. If we did counseling, they'd probably have to name a syndrome after us. First ever.

 

[2] When she hit on my "best" friend at the bar, yes it signaled something. But she'd cleverly masked it. About 19 months earlier, he was in "her" town (he's bipolar and federal law enforcement officer and I was doing a third intervention on him for his addiction to prescription meds and this trip was all part of that). We were at a bar and some goofy college girl came up to talk to my special someone, but she kept grabbing me about the arm, thigh and shoulder. I was hoping she'd just quit and that my special someone wouldn't notice. Bad plan. So my special someone started hitting on my "best" friend, she said, as retaliation. (But wouldn't retaliation be her hitting on the college girl's boyfriend? not my "best" friend?) So that's what it was, by my special person's lights: retaliation. But, and it got clearer with time, a year later she also remembered the first time she saw him -- in a bath towel outside the motel room, yet forgot the last time we'd had sex, though she'd thought about the answer for two days. I remembered, she didn't; but I forgot about the towel thing, and she didn't. So she masked it as retaliation, but then started anew when we all saw each other 19 months later, and they picked right up where they left off. I stopped it. For about two minutes. Well, forever. (I think!) What I mean is that in a couple minutes, he'd announce to the whole bar that I was in an affair with her. It was humiliating. I wanted to pound him into nothing but couldn't. Too many witnesses with cellphones. It still makes my blood boil. What treachery. Yeah yeah yeah, I'm in an affair, I hear some of you say, so I can't complain of treachery. Yes I can. My buddy messed up, just as I've stepped over the line. A fat doctor can tell a fat patient to lose some weight........ and still be right.

 

[3] Why not divorce my wife? I love her and don't want to hurt her. We don't have everything, but we ALMOST do. It's just that that last thing we're missing, sexual intimacy, which has been absent for years, is quite important. I am able to suppress it, and have forever, until I met my special person. I wasn't even (consciously) looking, either. Was I subconsciously looking? I couldn't possibly know that, right? Then bam. There she was. And now, five years later, as of Valentine's Day, she's gone. Was this cruel of me to my wife? Really, cruel, is that the right word? Abusive? To me, those words imply an intent. As I said earlier, there is no READILY IDENTIFIABLE signs that this affair has affected our marriage -- I mean, what? less sex? not possible. Is "AP" my special someone? Not sure what that stands for. But someone here posted that they believe she's cheated on me through the entire five year relationship. I think that's very close to right. I think about four years. Tonight, on Valentine's Day, she finally told me the truth. And I think that's part of her abusive bent, as someone else pointed out. Tonight represented about 1/2000th of what she's done to me, some of it so abysmally bad I won't speak of it even anonymously here. (This is anonymous, right? If someone did an email address search of me, could they find this? or some other means? Yikes!) But I put up with it. Why would I do that? I'm very serious about this. And yet I have to say, she's a gorgeous, smart, funny person, who loves to laugh and makes posters quoting inspirational figures for her wall. She's selfless and I won't say in what way to help protect her identity, but you'd all be impressed. As I repeatedly told her, she's great to the world. But mean as a snake to me. And I don't get it. Nor why I'd put up with it. And still even love her, wallowing in my heartbreak as I am right now. She's literally driven me to you guys. Some of you have doubtlessly been the cheated-on spouse and hate my f'n guts. So, because of that psychological "transference," where you hate people who remind you of people you hate, I have to hear you but also consider the totality of the situation. Some of you might be like me (but who ON EARTH is in a totally sexless marriage???), and you're all, "Hey bro, hear ya! You're right!" -- I can't give complete credence to you guys either, much as I'd want to. I am heartbroken, very confused, my mother's a few months away from dying of cancer, and honestly, I have no problems other than that. But it's killing me. I love my special person, who's got a roster of superb qualities, was truly the love of my life, but who's a serial cheater and a liar. I don't have any reason to leave my wife -- except the no sex thing!!!!!! And I know she'd not want me to leave her. So if someone here has a cure, or even a string of advice, I'm all ears. And fingers.

[whichwayisup]

Why are you afraid to open up and speak to your wife? You two never speak of it. Sorry but that's odd. So you both have communication issues when it comes to the bedroom.

 

Your marriage is doomed if you don't get counseling. And don't assume she won't go! You don't know because you don't speak to her about intimacy!

 

Sorry about your mom. Fricken cancer..Took my father.

[Janesays]

I have never wanted a wife to be secretly cheating on her husband so bad in my entire life.

[Leo the Homely Lion]

 

[1] Probably because she was sleeping with other men throughout your 5 year affair, she assumed that you were doing the same thing? That or she's bi polar. I don't know.

 

[2] Sorry you're hurting. I hope you come to peace with this and also make a decision about your marriage. time to talk to your wife and ask her if she is truly happy with you, in a sexless and childless marriage and if that's enough forever. ? Life is short and yes you may love your wife as a friend, as family but it seems you don't love your wife with lots of passion and love like a husband should feel for his wife. She may not feel it for you either, so it seems..

 

[3] Edit to add - AP affair partner. OP other person or original poster. WS wandering spouse, BS betrayed spouse.

 

[1] Sadly, I believe you are absolutely right. But I seriously think she started sleeping around only four years ago, not five. Hey, if I can cut my heartache by 20%, let me, please.

 

[2] Thank you. I am hurting. My own fault, but that doesn't ease the pain, it just makes it worse. I'm a cheater, albeit in a sexless marriage, who got cheated on and abused by the love of my life. What a recipe. Again, I know 'abused' is a watchword, could mean anything. But if I rostered the acts, and I don't want to, you'd all know it. Thing is, I didn't realize it until a few months ago. And I think I am smart. What a dumb* I am.

[Eggplant]

[1] ...And to suddenlly, like, get all seduction-y just not even in the cards. Counseling, might help. But I seriously doubt it. It's just not there. I don't think of her that way. ... We have everything else. Respect, kindness, love.

... We don't have everything, but we ALMOST do. It's just that that last thing we're missing, sexual intimacy, which has been absent for years, is quite important.

 

If only you could get the physical intimacy! Go to a sex counselor. The marriage sounds worth fighting for. I have heard that one way to get your sex life back is to just do it. The act in and of itself will awaken the chemistry. Why don't you just agree to make yourselves do it for a period of time, even if you don't feel like it? Good luck.

[Lillyfree]

i'm sorry to hear about your marriage. obviously a nice long talk with your wife, followed by MC and IC is in order. i hope you get to where you want to be in your marriage.

 

as far as the OW... i can't really see how what she is doing is 'cheating'. you weren't committed to her, why would she be committed to you? if you wanted an exclusive relationship with her you would have divorced your wife and gone to her.

but no. you were happy to have your safe, tame, comfortable relationship at home and the A for thrills.

 

not excusing the OW behaviour (i am against any sort of abuse) and she seems a bit on the wild side, but that's exactly what you wanted. or you would have finished it with her. again, see the madonna-whore complex.

[stevie_23]

I would still view what the OW did as cheating on the OP because they had an understanding (I think?) that they were only with each other (besides their respective spouses).

 

My ex-MM and I were exclusive together. Completely. Apart from our existing relationships. One time he got a bit weird and very worried that I was texting some other guy friends during "our" text time at night. I was definitely not, as this was OUR time and I cherished it completely, as did he. We discussed it and were fine after that. But yeah, if he'd been texting other women during our time (or at all), I would've freaked out too.