Valentine's Day Heartbreak

[ThatJustHappened]

You're surprised that a cheater cheated?

Edited April 20, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mint Sauce]

Leo,

 

when's the last time you cried?

 

You're eloquent and analytical but you sound disconnected. I recognize that. In that phase, I felt i could bury my parents without shedding a tear. Could you?

 

You know what got me back to reality? Seeing my wife collapse when she found out (through my confession). You need a D-day, not only because that's fair to your wife, but because that shock to your own system will set in motion the process that will eventually lead you out of this mess. At least it did for me (plus 3 years of 2 sessions on the couch per week...).

[Leo the Homely Lion]

You're surprised that a cheater cheated?

 

Well yes I am.

 

I'm a cheater who didn't cheat.

 

That doesn't look right, but it is.

Edited April 20, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Pierre]

Right! I'm the only man in America who's at once in a sexless marriage and a sexless affair! And my spouse and special person would never believe that claim as told by me about the other! But it's true.

 

I hear your concern, but in my marriage, I'm the stopper to the sex. She doesn't even try any more. I'd be the happiest man in the world if I could just go. But I can.not.do.it. No idea why, just know it's not anything I can do.

 

With my erstwhile cheating nutso beautiful dishonest selfless special person, what killed us, and as said in my inaugural post, was the public announcement of our affair in a bar by my "best" friend. It was humiliating, shaming, mortifying. What a betrayal, man, but that's another topic. And my special person and I have not been able to recover. She believes, at once irrationally and rationally, that if it happened once, it could happen again. But maybe 16 hours earlier, we had some pretty f'n cool sex.

 

So, though I see the off the rack psychological theory you seek to apply to my situation, but it's inapposite. Good guess, though. I can see why you'd think that. But it's really not germane.

 

 

btw, MY Tab says hi.

 

Having good sex in an affair is rather easy.

 

Having regular good sex in a long term marriage is what separates the men from the boys.

[skywriter]

Well yes I am.

 

I'm a cheater who didn't cheat.

 

That doesn't look right, but it is.

 

 

I understand what you are going through. My exMM, and I had the same understanding between us, he flirted with my girlfriends in front of me.

 

These women didn't have a clue he and I were having an A. I eventually found out from them that he was calling them, having very suggestive conversations.

 

It was humilitating and crushed my ego. I eventually cut off all contact , it was hard as hell. He didn't call or come to find out why. I created all these stories as to why. He'd most likely had someone else all along.

 

I mostly just had to come to terms that I'd done all this to myself, by having an A with him.

I'm sorry, I failed to mention, I am single, you'd have thought the exMM was by his actions.

Edited February 15, 2013 by skywriter

[chaser0195]

[1] You sound a tad edgy. Just cooool on down and help a fellow citizen out, huh? The amount of transference on this board is amazing. Anyway. No I didn't state that. I stated or implied that I overcame a long lack of enthusiasm for marriage by realizing that I loved her and truly felt I owed her. I loved her and I owed her and so I married her. That was my math; that's how this society works.

 

[2] No. I am not saying that.

 

[3] Wrong again. I know you're angry at someone, I just don't know why it's me. I just got here, man. You don't even know me. I'm not going all snide on anyone, don't know why you think you should me. But hey, if it makes you feel better, guess what? I've got almost five years' experience at this. And let me tell ya, you're an amateur compared to what my special person could do. Which is a good thing. So good you should put it on your resume.

 

[4] Your conclusion here's invalid as you missed your premises 1-3, above.

 

I do appreciate your response though. But I think it was more for you, than me.

I'm not edgy. I interpreted your post just as you did mine. Looks like we both interpreted it in our own way and we both got it wrong. I read the post and my response is what I got from it. Just as you got that I was being edgy from my response.

[pteromom]

Why is everyone automatically in the wife's side here and, to my limited experience here, never on the OW's side? I

 

This isn't about your OW *or* your wife. They aren't here to defend themselves or explain themselves or give their sides of the story.

 

The only one here is you. This is about you.

 

What you did was wrong, on many many levels.

 

You accepted a sexless marriage and never brought it up or communicated your needs or got counseling or did anything at all to try to fix it. This put you in a position that was ripe for an affair.

 

Then you met the OW and carried on with her for years and years, further denying you and your wife of the kind of relationship you both may have had.

 

And now, STILL rather than working to fix your marriage, you are on here worrying about what strangers on the internet think of your OW. Who cares? She is the past. I understand you still have feelings for her, but it's over, so you need to work on moving on.

 

Now, the question is this: What are you going to do to fix your life? You can go to your wife and say you want to work on making your marriage better and bring romance and sex into it, and get counseling to help you guys transition into that type of relationship. OR you can keep on keeping on until you meet the next OW. OR you can divorce, and let your wife go find someone who can be faithful to her, and you can go find someone who wants the same thing you want.

 

No more lies and no more hiding. Stand up and take control of your own life.

[pteromom]

Pteromom -- it's not that she should believe I'm "incapable of a lie". Nobody on this earth is that. And I think it goes to far to essentially say that because I have not told my wife about my affair that I'm therefore "a liar". People can and do tell lies everyday but remain otherwise far and away mostly truthful. The analogy's not perfect, but it might be like someone who tells a crucial whopper of a lie on his resume, is hired because of that claim, but then goes performs honorably and truthfully at his job. His hiring was based on a lie; but that does not make him "a liar" which implies he's incapable of telling the truth. This isn't rationalization, though I concede that seems a bit defensive of me, only because I can sense some lowgrade anger in some of the responses here. The fact is I was truthful to my OW in every respect, from Day One. My wife has not asked me about it, I've never said anything about it, but I again concede that does not make me a liar by omission to her.

 

You are getting down into the weeds here. What is the definition of a liar? One who lies. Sorry, but this makes both you and your OW liars. Of course, that doesn't make you a person who is ALL BAD. Very few people are all bad. You may usually be a truthful person, but how many lies did you tell to your wife over the years in order to see and talk to your OW? More than one, I bet. Did you never tell her you were going to a store or out with a friend or on a work trip or wherever and REALLY you were going to see your OW? Did you never say a phone call or text was from or to someone else? I find it hard to believe that you never lied.

 

But even if that is the case - that you never had to spin a yarn to cover your tracks - you get no points for honesty for it never coming up. Every time you walked out that door and your wife was left there feeling secure and happy and content, her WHOLE belief system about your marriage was a lie.

 

I don't think being in denial about it is healthy for you... instead of defending your actions, I think you should accept everything you have done wrong here.

[pteromom]

I hear your concern, but in my marriage, I'm the stopper to the sex. She doesn't even try any more. I'd be the happiest man in the world if I could just go. But I can.not.do.it. No idea why, just know it's not anything I can do.

 

Wait..... YOU stopped the sex?

 

So your wife WANTS to have sex with you, but instead you chose to go have sex with OW?

 

Ohhhh this makes me so very sad for your wife.

 

I think you should just let her go.

 

Or get individual counseling so you can work through the issues and find out why you can't have sex with your wife. That's just so sad.

[fllygirl]

Sorry Leo you feel hurt, it takes time to heal, just give yourself some time. The good thing is that now you know how passionate you are and you can't just suppress it anymore. What are you going to do next? Your other special person is gone, you have no sex at home.

If you won't deal with lack of sex in your marriage how do you see living your life without sex other then getting into another affair? And what if your second affair won't work out then what's next? third?

[LFH]

Well yes I am.

 

I'm a cheater who didn't cheat.

 

That doesn't look right, but it is.

 

I get what you mean. You cheated on your wife, but you never cheated on your OW.

You had an agreement of exclusivity with her.

[wisernow]

If I read this right (and I'm sure you'll correct me if wrong) its not your wife that wont have sex with you, rather you are the one who wont give it up to her. Right?

 

If this is true, then I wonder if she's not having an affair as well. I certainly wouldn't stay in a marriage where sex was denied. So what's the deal? You dance around the reasoning for your marriage being sexless, but I'm really curious as to why either of you put up with such a roommate relationship. There are no kids to mess up, so why not just cut your losses so each of you are able to authentically find other people to have relationships with to include having great sex.

 

Life is short, why settle for mediocre?

[pteromom]

I'm curious, though. What if I'd come onto this board when everything was great with me and my special person? Why does everyone seem to assume that the "bad decision" is to be with the OW? What if my bad decision was in marrying? What makes one decision worse than the other? Yes there are vows. But I'm saying once the decision to marry is made, the vows are a given. Can't people make a simple (but hugely crucial, critical, gargantuan) mistake -- and not be the evil guy?

 

The bad decision is not giving your wife all the information so she can make the choice of how to live her life based on all the facts. You aren't evil, but your actions are misguided. You are doing what YOU want to do with no consideration of how your wife feels. She apparently wanted sex and you stopped it. She apparently decided to stay married anyway, assuming you were just a low-sex-drive guy, but that there was enough other good stuff to stay for. And the whole time, what she assumes isn't the truth AT ALL. The whole time, you are sleeping with someone else. She deserved to have that information so she could make her own choices based on the truth.

[Turtles]

Also has anyone here been accused of lying all the time, despite the lack of any (even possible) proof of even one bona fide lie? So frustrating.

 

Hello? You have been lying every day of the last 5 years to your wife, the one woman you swore to be true to. Every day. That makes close to 2000 lies. Big ones, too. And you are wondering why someone has a hard time believing you? Hello? Anybody in there?

 

Still I've been true to my wife (who's been absolutely loyal to me, in every respect), with one life-altering exception.

 

Has to be a joke. Do you seriously view yourself as a honest & truthful person? No wonder she can't believe a word you say. You can't even be truthful with yourself.

 

But my question is, has anybody heard of a totally sexless marriage?

 

Well, it's only sexless for your wife. You're still getting your rocks off. She is not getting her sexual needs met because you admit you put a stop to it and she "stopped trying". But she is a "great partner and a great friend" so she is still providing you the emotional support & companionship you can leech off of her.

 

The pathetic excuse for a human being you portrayed in your post is so reprehensible I can only assume you are a troll. It was just so disgusting I had to write some kind of answer.

 

Oh. Wtf is a "seeking-woman"? Is that euphemism for a hooker?

[chaser0195]

[1] You sound a tad edgy. Just cooool on down and help a fellow citizen out, huh? The amount of transference on this board is amazing. Anyway. No I didn't state that. I stated or implied that I overcame a long lack of enthusiasm for marriage by realizing that I loved her and truly felt I owed her. I loved her and I owed her and so I married her. That was my math; that's how this society works.

 

[2] No. I am not saying that.

 

[3] Wrong again. I know you're angry at someone, I just don't know why it's me. I just got here, man. You don't even know me. I'm not going all snide on anyone, don't know why you think you should me. But hey, if it makes you feel better, guess what? I've got almost five years' experience at this. And let me tell ya, you're an amateur compared to what my special person could do. Which is a good thing. So good you should put it on your resume.

 

[4] Your conclusion here's invalid as you missed your premises 1-3, above.

 

I do appreciate your response though. But I think it was more for you, than me.

I went back a reread you response and not one time did you say you loved your wife. You said you owed it to her to marry her and that she deeply loved YOU. You did say you loved your exOW though.

Edited February 15, 2013 by chaser0195

[Yellowteacup]

[1] Honestly I don't know why zero sex. We just settled into this buddy thing and that's where we're at still. And to suddenlly, like, get all seduction-y just not even in the cards. Counseling, might help. But I seriously doubt it. It's just not there. I don't think of her that way. And she doesn't probably think of me that way either. I mean we never ever ever talk about it. It's too bad. We have everything else. Respect, kindness, love. We never much argue anymore. Except the other day about shoveling the driveway but that was no big deal. I really don't know why not any sex. It's f'n weird. And I don't think of this situation for long periods of time and then when I do, I can't get my head around it and give up quick. If we did counseling, they'd probably have to name a syndrome after us. First ever.

 

[2] When she hit on my "best" friend at the bar, yes it signaled something. But she'd cleverly masked it. About 19 months earlier, he was in "her" town (he's bipolar and federal law enforcement officer and I was doing a third intervention on him for his addiction to prescription meds and this trip was all part of that). We were at a bar and some goofy college girl came up to talk to my special someone, but she kept grabbing me about the arm, thigh and shoulder. I was hoping she'd just quit and that my special someone wouldn't notice. Bad plan. So my special someone started hitting on my "best" friend, she said, as retaliation. (But wouldn't retaliation be her hitting on the college girl's boyfriend? not my "best" friend?) So that's what it was, by my special person's lights: retaliation. But, and it got clearer with time, a year later she also remembered the first time she saw him -- in a bath towel outside the motel room, yet forgot the last time we'd had sex, though she'd thought about the answer for two days. I remembered, she didn't; but I forgot about the towel thing, and she didn't. So she masked it as retaliation, but then started anew when we all saw each other 19 months later, and they picked right up where they left off. I stopped it. For about two minutes. Well, forever. (I think!) What I mean is that in a couple minutes, he'd announce to the whole bar that I was in an affair with her. It was humiliating. I wanted to pound him into nothing but couldn't. Too many witnesses with cellphones. It still makes my blood boil. What treachery. Yeah yeah yeah, I'm in an affair, I hear some of you say, so I can't complain of treachery. Yes I can. My buddy messed up, just as I've stepped over the line. A fat doctor can tell a fat patient to lose some weight........ and still be right.

 

[3] Why not divorce my wife? I love her and don't want to hurt her. We don't have everything, but we ALMOST do. It's just that that last thing we're missing, sexual intimacy, which has been absent for years, is quite important. I am able to suppress it, and have forever, until I met my special person. I wasn't even (consciously) looking, either. Was I subconsciously looking? I couldn't possibly know that, right? Then bam. There she was. And now, five years later, as of Valentine's Day, she's gone. Was this cruel of me to my wife? Really, cruel, is that the right word? Abusive? To me, those words imply an intent. As I said earlier, there is no READILY IDENTIFIABLE signs that this affair has affected our marriage -- I mean, what? less sex? not possible. Is "AP" my special someone? Not sure what that stands for. But someone here posted that they believe she's cheated on me through the entire five year relationship. I think that's very close to right. I think about four years. Tonight, on Valentine's Day, she finally told me the truth. And I think that's part of her abusive bent, as someone else pointed out. Tonight represented about 1/2000th of what she's done to me, some of it so abysmally bad I won't speak of it even anonymously here. (This is anonymous, right? If someone did an email address search of me, could they find this? or some other means? Yikes!) But I put up with it. Why would I do that? I'm very serious about this. And yet I have to say, she's a gorgeous, smart, funny person, who loves to laugh and makes posters quoting inspirational figures for her wall. She's selfless and I won't say in what way to help protect her identity, but you'd all be impressed. As I repeatedly told her, she's great to the world. But mean as a snake to me. And I don't get it. Nor why I'd put up with it. And still even love her, wallowing in my heartbreak as I am right now. She's literally driven me to you guys. Some of you have doubtlessly been the cheated-on spouse and hate my f'n guts. So, because of that psychological "transference," where you hate people who remind you of people you hate, I have to hear you but also consider the totality of the situation. Some of you might be like me (but who ON EARTH is in a totally sexless marriage???), and you're all, "Hey bro, hear ya! You're right!" -- I can't give complete credence to you guys either, much as I'd want to. I am heartbroken, very confused, my mother's a few months away from dying of cancer, and honestly, I have no problems other than that. But it's killing me. I love my special person, who's got a roster of superb qualities, was truly the love of my life, but who's a serial cheater and a liar. I don't have any reason to leave my wife -- except the no sex thing!!!!!! And I know she'd not want me to leave her. So if someone here has a cure, or even a string of advice, I'm all ears. And fingers.

 

I can answer why your special someone was acting this way. She is the one who wants to be in control of all aspects of your illicit relationship and because of this, you are wrapped around her little finger. A sadist. I'm sure over the course of 5 years, bells and whistles but I believe you ignored it. She was and is A CHEATER AND A LIAR from the very beginning even with her selfless qualities, etc., there are those two main factors that cancel everything else.

 

I base this on my own experience.

 

My advice would simply be to let her go. End it. Hasta la vista, baby and all that jazz.

[fllygirl]

I'm not sure why you never talked to your wife about your sexless marriage prior your affair. But I can see why in last 5 years you wouldn't be discussing it..what if your wife would be open to have sex with you again? how would deal with two women? You were in love, you wanted to remain faithful to your other special woman and you were not ready to let her go nor to break your promise to be sexually exclusive with her.. But now she is gone, there is no reason not to speak to your wife, at least to try to fix that missing part in your marriage.

[sweet_pea]

I hope you know that you're not the victim in any of this. You caused ALL of YOUR problems, not the OW and certainly not your wife...

 

Your OW has every right to be with someone else. Why doesn't she? You had your wife the whole relationship. Your wife most definitely has every right and deserves a loving, honest, intimate husband. So, why haven't you given her the opportunity to find that?

 

Also, that is wild that you're the reason that sex stopped... dang.

[Quiet Storm]

I don't think I've ever read more justifications and rationalizations in my entire life.

 

This post could be used on a test for a psych class. Highlight an example of each of the following defense mechanisms: denial, repression, compartmentalization, projection, displacement, intellectualization, sublimation, compensation, etc.

 

Leo, you need help. Please take this post to a professional.

 

Your wife and OW need help, too. Broken attracts broken.

[Tenacity]

Your wife, who by your own admission is intelligent and beautiful both on the inside and outside, sounds like someone most any man would want. I feel really sorry for her, having to be married to someone for all those years who doesn't even want to show her love physically. I would never stay in such a marriage.

 

She deserves so much more than to be married to a man who would deny her physically and then seek it elsewhere.

 

Lion (interesting name for a person so completely averse to conflict): Apparently you just assume she must be so happy just to be married to you that she doesn't need physical love and affection, which is like air, food, and water to a marriage. I would bet that deep down (probably not so deep down), she is miserable being married to you, and is wondering what it would be like to be in a real marriage.

 

You're right LadyGrey, it IS nauseating.

[Owl]

I'm going to say this point blank, and up front.

 

You...deliberately and intentionally entered into a sexless marriage. You knew that's what you were signing up for...and you proceeded.

 

Bottom line is this...if the terms of that arrangement no longer suited you, you OWED IT TO YOUR WIFE to either end the arrangement, or negotiate a new arrangement with her...you have ZERO right to do what you did.

 

So...make it right...now.

[SidLyon]

In my response, I left out the part where you are playing the role of victim, you are not, you are the perp of this. Can you see that?

 

....

 

I think I pointed this out pages ago in a post Leo didn't respond to (as is his right). I used the word "abuser" which he probably didn't like.

 

I also made a mistake in expressing sympathy for being in a sexless marriage as I'd overlooked that he is in fact the instigator of that situation.

 

Seems to me Leo is not here to listen to genuine advice about his situation but to argue with those who speculate and got it wrong.

 

Leo, my advice to you is to not waste your time setting LS people straight about the true facts of the situation, but to work out what you want to do about the situation.

 

Leo your problems in a nutshell are:

 

1. You have lost interest in sex with your wife and are blaming her for it.

 

2. In the course of your affair you have most likely become a wife abuser, even though you may not have started out that way or even given it any thought while you were doing it. See my previous post for an explanation of why I consider it abusive.

 

3. Your OW has dumped you.

 

If you are a problem solving sort of guy, then you can start to think about what actions you can take to deal with all these problems, and any others you identify.

 

I suggest.

 

1. Honesty with your wife about your affair and make a decision about whether you want to stay with her or not and for goodness sake talk to her about it. If you decide to leave, then put the steps in place to leave and divorce. If you and your wife decide to stay together then start some sort of discussion/therapy/counseling about (re)gaining intimacy and a sex life in your marriage and stop obsessing about and blaming her for something she said "yuk" to years ago.

 

2. Make a decision to stop being abusive and stop seeing yourself as the victim of either woman. You're not; you've been the one in control and you don't like it that your control of the situation has slipped.

 

3. Deal with the breakup with your OW as you would any other. You'll probably obsess over this for a while that's only natural. Don't become a stalker. Focus on other things that are important to you. In your case you have a wife and a dysfunctional marriage to focus on.

 

If I or anyone else that responds have got he facts wrong, or made a mistake or you simply don't like the advice you're given then don't waste too much time setting us straight and calling us names. It doesn't benefit me or any other posters and the benefit to you is minimal and it does absolutely nothing to solve the serious problems you have.

[GreySkyMorning]

Trying to post from my phone, so forgive the typos.[/b

[1] I love how the jilted spouses and the other women all bring their own method to it here. In particular, I love how you cushion this to make the OW sound so p a s s i v e. You say I "see" her as this "crazy woman" because "I" "feel" she's been unfaithful to me. How to unpack this. First, it's not a matter of sight, which can fail; I know she's been nutso and know she's been unfaithful, at least twice, including dropping the news on me personally, on Valentine's Day, for the first time in almost five years, despite my previous inquiries. Second, she can be nuts, fo[br sure -- but I didn't call her a "crazy woman" -- that's your tack to try to water down the reliability of my narrative. Finally, it's not that "I" "feel" she's been unfaithful. She has been. Period.

 

She hasn't been unfaithful to you. She is a single woman. You are not committed to her, so why would you expect commitment from her?

[2] You are assuming facts not in evidence. Fancy speak for, you are wrong.

Enlighten us then. You do not sleep in the same bed as your wife? You don't share normal day to day activities with your wife, such as meals, family time, etc? You don't share companionship with your wife? What kind of marriage do you have then? Go grocery shipping together, laundry together, daily activities of life? You tell her you love her? Kiss her goodbye in the mornings? All this things are intimacy and part of being in a relationship. If you're sharing those with the OW, you're cheating on your wife. If you share them with the wife, you're cheating on the other woman.

[3] You probably missed it. She and I had a deal. Exclusivity. With an opt out at any time so long as the opting party informs the other prior to any sexual dalliance. So your statement, though provocative, and probably fun to write, is irrelevant.

No, you had a good thing going as a cake eater. I hope she just finally woke up to how bad of a deal she was getting on her end. Five years of her life was given to you. You weren't exclusive to her, except maybe in sexual intercourse.

[4] No. You've conjured a straw man. No such dynamic's occurred. Again irrelevant.

 

[5] "You ARE a liar". Pretty emphatic there. Not sure if your shrill CAPS means you think I am capable of a lie or tell nothing but lies. Your use of "continuously" in the second sentence would suggest you think I'm the latter. If I lie on a job application, and get hired based on that lie, is everything I do at the workplace a lie? No. If I don't tell my wife about my affair, does that mean everything I say is a lie? Look, studies show that most people lie dozens of times every day. But I don't think even you'd say most people "ARE liars". What if I tell the truth 99.999% of the day? Which is about right for me. What kind of liar tells the truth almost 100% of the time? Sure you could make the point that by my failure to tell my wife about my affair, that failure is this big blanket of time that runs seamlessly throughout the weeks months and years, making me a constant liar. Okay, if that's the way you want to play it, fine. I see it as this: I'm a truthful person almost 100% of the time, with the exception of my failure to tell my wife about the affair. That doesn't make me a liar. That makes me someone whose day includes telling an enormously small percentage of lies. Just like you. In fact, the way you phrased my stances above is dishonest, as I pointed out. Dishonest, well that may be too harsh a word, so I'll take it back. But you have a position and you want that position to prevail -- and so you padded and cushioned and said such things as I "felt" her to be a "crazy woman" and "unfaithful". I never felt any such thing. I knew one and never said the other. Ya see what I'm trying to say in this little workshop? Thanks for your post, though. Honestly I do appreciate it and your last point made me stop and think -- a dangerous thing for me.

[pineapples]

I can't find the post where you said you would not discuss/leave your wife, because you do not want to hurt her.

 

You have already done that, and you will hurt her more if you stay with her and pretend nothing has happened in the last 5 years of your life.

 

Also, as you have never been sexually attracted to her, but had active sex life with another, there is no reason to have counseling regarding your marriage or sex life.

[ComingInHot]

Sidlyon;

 

You got mad SKILLS w/that smart phone!!