Valentine's Day Heartbreak

[SidLyon]

Sidlyon;

 

You got mad SKILLS w/that smart phone!!

 

Oh dear - sorry I've got no idea what this means. Put it down to not being in the USA maybe, or perhaps you meant another poster?

 

I don't have a smart phone. To be honest I know nothing about them other than that they must be advanced in some way. I have a dinosaur prepaid mobile phone that I use less than twice a year!

[ComingInHot]

Sid;

Sorry, my bad*

 

GreySkyMorning;

 

You got mad skills w/the Smart phone!! Lol**

[GreySkyMorning]

Btw, you think you're an honest person almost 100% of the time?? Every minute of the time, your wife thinks she is in a real marriage. Every minute of that, you are letting her believe it without telling her the truth. A lie of omission is still a lie. That makes you a liar 100% of the time.

[GreySkyMorning]

Sid;

Sorry, my bad*

 

GreySkyMorning;

 

You got mad skills w/the Smart phone!! Lol**

 

Lol

 

I have no internet at home. I do everything on this phone.

[Catplates]

"How special are you..."? Really? Is that sort of gratuitous dig helpful to anything but an issue personal to you? I'm not digging on people here, so I don't know why I should be dug like that.

 

Onward.

 

No, the fact that our affair lasted five years does not translate to I'm lying. I mean, lying about what, do you think? Everything, as she thought? Marriage, as you seem to imply?

 

Wrong on either end.

 

I never promised her anything like that. Just to be truthful and faithful, which I was.

 

There was one time, and it's come up, when I thought things were getting very good and I thought about leaving my marriage for her, until she up and went ape wild. I have no idea what her deal was that time, or most of the times. She'd just wig, for, HONESTLY, no reason I could ever figure.

 

But we broke up. And I mentioned to her that was too bad, and I gave an indication I don't want to mention here that divorce was seriously contemplated. She comes back at me, believing that this was a "trick" -- she ended up doing that, reading stuff about other married men and what they did and then she'd just apply that to me as if it was a given. They're like that; ipso facto, I'm like that. It was nuts.

 

It's like she profiled me. It's really a sort of thinking akin to racist thinking: I heard or read about a certain type of person who does this -- and that means YOU do. It was nonsense. I really never lied to her. And I didn't promise her a thing other than fidelity and truth.

 

Plus, you're giving her the benefit of the doubt, that she was waiting for me.

 

Nah, she wasn't waiting for nobody, man.

 

It's only becoming clear to me recently, which prompted my coming to this board.

 

I think she cheated on me many times, though I can prove only two. Funny. "Only" two. But today's revelation of the second ended the relationship; though, to be fair, she'd probably say my "best" friend's announcement to the bar of our affair ended the affair, which was nothing *I* did -- giving her free rein to do what she wanted. But you know, we talked a lot after that and she still should've told me she was sleeping with some dude long before she dropped it on me yesterday, Valentine's Day for Pete's sake.

 

So anyway, that's my opinion. And I might be wrong. Don't think so though. Or I wouldn't've written it.

 

I asked if you were special because your whole situation smacks of over inflated self entitlement. It seems that keeping your innocent wife in oblivion while you have a mistress is all part and parcel of your life.

 

There is no reason why she should be faithful to you. You have absolutely no claim on her and no right to ask because you already have a wife. You fidelity belongs there not to your x OW or anbody else.

 

Nowhere have I read any empathy for your wife or your x lover. Perhaps that will come later.

 

YOu x lover knows that you lie and cheat on the woman you are supposed to honour above all others. It would follow then that you are capable of lying and cheating to her, although you love her.

 

Leo , I am not being unkind to you. There are lots of straight talking, intelligent people here who are willing to put their point of view for your reflection. It might not always be what you would like to hear but it's a public forum.

 

Being party to a triangular relationship is life changing. The position of OW is not easy, especially long term.

 

Knowing the man you love is sharing his life with another woman can be soul destroying. It destroys self esteem and trust. It is a very isolating experience for the OW. It is living an unauthentic life and going against society's code of decency.

 

An affair can bring the OW totally undone and destroy her mentally and emotionally. YOu might read some back stories here of emotional torment and depression.

 

Perhaps your x did have secret desires about marriage with you? I didn't imply it before. I meant how long did you expect her to remain satisfied with the constraints of being faithful to you in an A? Being in an A long term offers little to the OW.

 

You say you were the only one who brought out irrational behaviour in her? I can relate to that after such a long term A. She has possibly become quite unstable in her behaviour.

 

All the best Leo.

 

Cat.

[Leo the Homely Lion]

I didn't mean to not-answer anyone's posts, except a couple here and there. I was going through them, intending to respond to almost all of them last night, but man the thread got huge fast -- and my fingers were typing twenty-foot tall posts. I need to become more efficient. Least I'm sober tonight. I'm sorry for offending people when I got all lippy a couple times. Doesn't make it right, but I was, if I can say this without being so defensive, having a bad day. My mom's dying of Stage 4 cancer, I'd just learned my special person of almost five years is sexual with some other guy, and I was drunk. Please accept my apologies for my bad attitude.

 

Just a heads up, I'll stay on this board for a while but will then delete my posts at some point. When that happens, don't knock yourself out over this, but, if you feel like it and you have a couple seconds, I'd appreciate if you'd then delete my words from those captured in your quote box. Or maybe that's against the rules, I don't know. But that's what I'd like.

 

I'm gonna stay till maybe Monday. But who knows I might delete them all tonight.

 

There's some good advice here -- you all mean well -- even if other people's axes are being grinded here, too.

[wisernow]

FYI- there is no magical deleting here.

[Tenacity]

I didn't mean to not-answer anyone's posts, except a couple here and there. I was going through them, intending to respond to almost all of them last night, but man the thread got huge fast -- and my fingers were typing twenty-foot tall posts. I need to become more efficient. Least I'm sober tonight. I'm sorry for offending people when I got all lippy a couple times. Doesn't make it right, but I was, if I can say this without being so defensive, having a bad day. My mom's dying of Stage 4 cancer, I'd just learned my special person of almost five years is sexual with some other guy, and I was drunk. Please accept my apologies for my bad attitude.

 

Just a heads up, I'll stay on this board for a while but will then delete my posts at some point. When that happens, don't knock yourself out over this, but, if you feel like it and you have a couple seconds, I'd appreciate if you'd then delete my words from those captured in your quote box. Or maybe that's against the rules, I don't know. But that's what I'd like.

 

I'm gonna stay till maybe Monday. But who knows I might delete them all tonight.

 

There's some good advice here -- you all mean well -- even if other people's axes are being grinded here, too.

 

Nope, your posts are here forevermore. You can't delete your posts. Even if you request to a moderator to have them deleted, it won't happen. It was part of the terms that you accepted when you signed up.

 

No one's axes are being grinded in your thread. There are thousands of other threads on this forum. You just don't like hearing opinions that you do not agree with, but that is what happens in an internet forum. You get all sides, and frankly, that is supposed to be the point.

[ThatJustHappened]

Well yes I am.

 

I'm a cheater who didn't cheat.

 

That doesn't look right, but it is.

 

Would your wife feel the same way?

[Leo the Homely Lion]

 

[1] Your affair is over, dramatically and unpleasantly by the sounds of it. That is what prompted you to come here?

 

[2] Your marriage is still in existence, although to most of us I guess it doesn't seem like much of a marriage.

 

[3] So what did you want to hear from LS? What can anyone do but offer opinions and advice on your remaining relationship? What did you want from us?

 

[1] Yes. The dramatic and unpleasant ending of my affair prompted me to post.

 

[2] Yes, my marriage is still in existence. I can see why you'd say it doesn't seem like much of a marriage. Because everyone places such a premium on sex. Understandably so. But, you know, there are abusive relationships where only the sex is great -- and that ain't good, either. We're opposite that. Everything's great except the zero sex. We don't fight or argue. There's no resentment. We enjoy each other's conversation, we have each other's back, and we're great friends. But at some imperceptible pivot long ago, something happened and I just didn't find her sexually attractive, even though I sometimes look at her and think what in the heck's wrong with me -- she's beautiful and sexy! But at those times my getting all sexy-cool and sidling up to her and saying Hey baby -- just not gonna happen. But if I had a time machine, I'd not propose this time. Because this no sex thing is killing me. But if that's the only problem -- no sex -- then why did I fall in love with my special person? See? In my marriage, I have everything but sex. In my marriage, I could not be loved more. In my marriage, I don't think I could love her or anybody more -- she's a saint, honestly, it's just ridiculous how purely good she is. We really do have everything but sex. And yet, with my special person, I loved her as much -- beyond our sex. (I still love her but using past tense to help move on.) Am I some sort of evil? I'm telling you it happened in an instant, I wasn't looking or intending or anything. But who does that, love two women? Because I do love them both, to my maximum extent, but with my special person, we also had sex. (I'm sure I've got to be lousy in bed. There was a time I was good, I think I remember. But hey, you got to practice to be good at anything, and I never can practice. Even Michael Jordan had to practice. Had my special person not gone nuts, accusing me of lying about EVERYTHING, truly no exaggeration, I would've left. Came close once. But she just escalated her insanity -- and the thing is, she's not nuts. She's great to the World, to everybody in it, except, eventually, me. And I never did ANY of the things she accused me of, she could never identify a single real lie I ever told. My guess is that the way we met -- instant attraction, the kind you read in novels -- sowed our downfall. See, she probably thought I just go about life looking for anything and if I see something shiny I'll jump on it -- the way I focused on her the first time we met (which was reciprocated, in real time.) So she didn't trust me. And, as several fine posters here suggest, the burden of being the "OW" may well have contributed to her going bonkers on me (she surely had other life stressers that could've been catalysts, too.) But her incessant wrongful accusations and constant disbelief slowly pushed me away. So the way we met, and the very status of our relationship, may have doomed us from the get go. And yet it lasted somewhere in the vicinity of five years -- I dunno, she probably cheated throughout, as some here suggest, so who knows but her if it "lasted" that long. But what I'm trying to say is that there was something very real there. And now it's gone. And I feel the tremendous loss. Myu special person is a great person. She and my wife would get along so well. Except they'd hate each other. Almost as much as they'd hate me. Ugh.

 

[3] When I first came here I wanted to know if I was the only person on earth in a totally sexless marriage. I'd never heard of one, but learned there are others beyond the one I'm living. I also wanted people to say I was right -- and wronged. You ask what I'm now looking for from the good people of this board?

 

How about this. Does this board think a married man's genuine and reciprocated love for the "OW" is always illegitimate? What if my love affair revealed that my decision to marry was the mistake, not her? People make mistakes all the time, man. Big and small. She's gone now, forgiveness cannot come a second time -- but I'm still left with the mistake. Which wouldn't be a mistake if there was sex. But I just don't see the sex happening. Much has been made here of me "stopping" the sex -- and I'm the perp and the instigator, etc.. Fine, but that's a bit dramatic. I didn't hold out an arm and yell Halt! It's just that over time, so subtly that I didn't notice it, the frog in the pot of water on the stove, it simply faded away. And we settled into a routine. And inertia kicked in. And here I am.

[Tenacity]

The point that everyone has made that you didn't address is that your wife might not (very likely does not) feel the same way as you - she might not think that your marriage is terrific without sex.

 

Oh yeah! Especially if she knew you had been getting it from another woman for the last five years!

 

In her place I would be beyond miserable. If she isn't, then she is not aware about facts about her own life that she deserves to know!

 

If she's great with it, then fine - but confirm that by talking to her. To have a sexless marriage for decades, to then assume that your W is great with your refusing to have sex with her, and not even to bring it up in conversation EVER, just is unbelievable. And not acceptable to her, not if you are seeking it elsewhere. Do you get that???

 

How about this. Does this board think a married man's genuine and reciprocated love for the "OW" is always illegitimate? What if my love affair revealed that my decision to marry was the mistake, not her?

 

You have been told this Over and Over and OVER! no, it isn't necessarily illegitimate. But if it isn't, then ACT ON IT! If your decision to marry was a mistake, then get a divorce! Your wife could find someone who loves her only emotionally, but physically. I pray she gets that.

 

What is complicated about that to you?

[Catplates]

Sorry to hear about you mother but that has absolutely nothing to do with why you cheated on your wife.

 

Perhaps you should post when sober.

 

I wonder what you were wanting to hear from the posters on LS.

 

Did anybody give you any insight into yourself, x OW or your wife?

 

Cat.

[Tenacity]

Please. Sure there are axes being ground here. This forum, full of good advice and well meaning people, is really a haven for confirmation bias. Wherever you look here, there'll be some people who agree with you -- because they are grinding the same axe as you are. But cmon, this forum is replete with posts from people battling old wars -- in the present, here. Surely you see that.

 

It's good in that it brings their experience, they've been there. But it's not so good because it can be so laden with subjectivity that it's clear they're typing mostly a note-to-self.

 

I don't mean to disparage by that observation. It's human nature. But I mean the snide, often small, hostility that so often pervades this board bespeaks exactly what I'm talking about. People fighting their own distant battles, masquerading as offering advice today.

 

You've been here for what... four days? And you know all the answers to everyone here.

 

I don't know if you realize this, but you have had the same opinions posted to you from long-term OW here (I am an ex-OW here) as well as betrayed spouses. All agreed. As an ex-OW, I think you need serious help.

 

If you truly want all sides to your story, to your perspective, then look at the responses objectively.

 

I don't believe you will do that. What you wanted was affirmation of your behavior.

[waterwoman]

Ok Leo, I'll bite. I'm a B.S. When I hear about men falling love with their OW when they admit they have lovely wives back home, and planning to leave, yes,a little bit of me wants to shout No! it's not fair!!! But as I am not a child I try to be rational. Is your love for OW legitimate? Not sure what you mean. Is it cheating? Yep. Is it shocking? Not really when your otherwise perfect marriage was incomplete. The temptation to cheat would always be there - would for me anyway.

 

Advice? Totally without my natural bias.

1. Leave your wife.

2. If that isn't acceptable, tell your wife. Find out how she feels about your marriage. If she wants to stay with you try MC together. Give it your best shot. That is the least you owe this beautiful woman who has been your companion for so long. If this fails live alone for a while. Clear your head.

[Leo the Homely Lion]

Here's a subpart of my affair, but the one that crushed my relationship with my special person.

 

And I would like to know why you all think it happened.

 

LONG/SHORT:

 

My oldest, best, childhood friend traveled some distance to meet me, who'd also traveled some distance, to meet my special person in her town. Only to announce, in the bar, in a booming voice, that she and I were having an affair.

 

BRIEF BACKGROUND:

 

He and I have known each other for decades, talked on the phone at least once a week nearly throughout, and have been through many an ordeal together -- Mega trust. He WAS my best friend.

 

He's an accomplished, highly promoted law enforcement officer -- was, anyway. About two years ago, he got fired for becoming addicted to prescription meds. During that timeframe, at his family's request, I made three trips across the country to do an intervention. It worked. I got him into a treatment center in my state. And he came out, six weeks later, with flying colors. I mean they really said he did good.

 

My special person lived in a town near his facility. I went out to pick him up. And to go see my special person. Though he and I have pretty much told each other everything, I never told him about my special person. Reason: he was loopy on drugs and leaving odd but entertaining messages on my home phone. I didn't want him to say anything about my affair, of course. So I didn't tell him.

 

But when he got out of treatment, looking much better and clear-eyed, it gave me an excuse to leave my town to see my special person. And that's when I told him about my special person.

 

She worked a half block from the hotel we were staying at. And I brought her over to meet him. My special person meets my best friend, good right? Seemed like the thing to do.

 

(BTW, something that still bugs me, she remembered a couple years later meeting him, because he came to our motel room in a towel, basically naked, but could not remember the last time we had sex, despite two days of "thinking". I think that means I was of course lousy in bed but also that she was having sex with other(s). Bummer.)

 

As weird luck would have it, my special person's very best friend had flown in from a long ways away.

 

We all went out to a bar. And we're sitting there. Having a pretty good conversation, given that half the people didn't know the other half. When suddenly a college girl, my special person's classmate, whom I'd met through my special person and whom I'd talked to maybe a total of 4 minutes over 3 interactions in my life, comes waltzing up to our table.

 

And she insists that she sit between me and my SP. I mean we had to move chairs and stuff. Fine, whatever, right?

 

But then this college girl, talking to my SP, starts like grabbing my arm and my shoulder and my thigh. I want it to stop and I'm hoping each time she does it that it's the last. Also hoping my SP doesn't notice. No, I didn't say anything.

 

(And I gotta say, man, I am not confrontation averse, I'm among the last people on the planet you'd think that about. But I'm not a nut, I'm reasonable, and I just hoped this would go away. Was just trying to stay cooooooo.)

 

My special person noticed. And for the rest of the night she hit on my best friend. As well as the next day. "Ohhh you have such big muscles." "Oh I always wanted to be where you are." "Ohhh you're soooo good looking." Just all that crap.

 

She'd later say, and it was obvious, that she was paying me back for this college girl grabbing me. (Real payback would be for my SP to grab HER boyfriend. I was innocent, man, totally.) Apparently she told him that she was doing that just to pay me back.

 

And my best friend, now a recovering prescription drug addict and diagnosed bipolar disorder and MMPI narcissist, agreed, yeah, it was only to pay me back.

 

But he remembered.

 

FAST FORWARD, 15 MONTHS.

 

In her new town, I'd reunited with my special person for the sole purpose of respectfully breaking things off, for good. We've done this 150 times, including the first time when I called her and said, "I just can't be a guy who's having an affair!"

 

But this reunion, for purposes of a breakup, didn't take.

 

And it was the most romantic, expectation-upending, beautiful night of my life -- so long as I repress notions that she just seduced me to see if she could get me back. Because this was a month after she had me call her so I could learn she'd slept with a man she didn't know, nice, in the first minute she was alone with him, nicer.

 

FASTFORWARD 16 MONTHS (THE END IS NIGH!)

 

After that beautiful, never-forgettable night, I wanted to see her again, and she me. We'd tried a couple times before and it didn't workout for various reasons with concomitant drama. But whatever.

 

So we set up the time and place and my best friend agreed to come down (why wouldn't he????!). I wanted him there to give me "legitimate" cover for my wife -- I was going to meet my best friend in this town. Yes, a lie, but with truth. I cannot tell an outright lie very often. Save the comments, yes I know this is wrong.

 

We meet. Go to his motel room. Drink some beers. He tells me, "Don't take this wrong, but. . ." and he looks to her and says, "You're pretty." Well she is. And I was actually proud. My best friend thinks my lady is pretty. I liked it, fine.

 

Then he wondered why we were not having sex. Said he would if he were me. My special person and I just kinda deferred. Then he wondered if there were prostitutes in town.

 

BTW, his treatment success if fast fading now and through the present day.

 

He's gonna get some sleep, my special person and I go to my room.

 

My special person and I sleep together, and it's an effin cool night. I drive her home, I drive back, she's texting me all concerned about me, it was nice.

 

NEXT DAY --

 

My special person I danced for the first time. I really liked that. Something we couldn't do before because of who might be watching but this is a new town -- we're safe, right?

 

Just you see what happens.

 

But she and I get into an argument, I don't know what about to this day, and I walk to my motel room and she takes the bus.

 

D-DAY (THE END IS NOW.)

 

My best friend and I go to the bar. It's around 2 or 3 p.m. He's drinking two to my one. He's smoking weed, which I gave up when I was 20.

 

I'm not really enjoying my time. But I'm game.

 

When the evening comes, I call my special person. She has reservations, says that her red flags are going off, but she comes on down. I was so glad to see her.

 

She sits by me at the bar table. He's in the bathroom. He comes back. And then his eyes light up. And he starts hitting on my special person. Then he gets into this longwinded monologue about raising children -- as if he would now have a clue, with his wife taking over half of them during his treatment and since. My SP has children.

 

The discussion, he admitted the next day when I looked for the remorse that would determine whether we ever spoke again, the last time I've personally talked to him, was designed to box me out. I don't have kids, she and he do.

 

I know this guy. I know exactly what he's doing, he didn't need to tell me. I start getting silently angry. My special person, who loves to hit on this guy, says to him, "Hey is he getting mad?" I'm the "he." It's as if I'm not there, an intimacy created between them, talking about me.

 

I go to the bathroom. I come back and they are forehead to forehead, across the table, talking. He sees me and does a bullcrap, "Aaaanyway, yeah, how about them Cowboys."

 

Right.

 

I find out later that they've been playing honest-to-goodness footsie, mostly from him, and she apparently said something I can't remember being told -- but it was no good!

 

And he continues some monologue.

 

Well into it, apparently she looked at me.

 

He didn't like it, saying, "What are you looking at him for?"

 

That's an aggressive statement, if you think about it.

 

And now I've had it with them hitting on each other spanning the last two times they've seen each other. And his staking his claim like this. I mean, WTF?

 

I say, "Hey. What are you doing? It's not working, man, it's not working. Quit monopolizing the conversation. She came down here to see me, not you."

 

To her credit, I could feel my special person nod. Yes, him, not you.

 

He gets a tad flustered.

 

Wants to say one thing but no words come out.

 

And then in this booming voice, he absolutely silences the entire bar of lots of people.

 

"Hey!" He says my name. "What about your beautiful wife!? You come down here with your mistress? F-U! What about your wife?!

 

I'm telling him to stfu. Not working. Only emboldens him.

 

My special person sticks around for I dunno, I was in shock, maybe a minute, then scoots out.

 

Meanwhile he's abandoned attacks on the affair, and hysterically launched into me. And I swear, all of it is textbook projection. Everything he accused me of, is him.

 

"You haven't earned a paycheck in forever!" (Just a flatout lie; he's on federal disability for being mentally unfit to preform his job -- late onset bipolar disorder, etc..)

 

"You are bald!" (Only very partially true, and I have tricks that make it look perfect -- but he really is going bald!)

 

He goes on and on and on, holding court, as the entire bar is silent, watching this spectacle.

 

I've beat him up six times out of six in our lives. I soooo want this to be the seventh, and I'm much fitter than he is, and way less drunk.

 

But there are witness galore. All with cellphones. The bar has my credit card, and thus my name. And if he would do THIS, he would press charges for the assault I wanted to ensue.

 

So I don't do anything. Which is against my nature. Contrary to what posters say here, I am far from confrontation averse. I don't want to identify my occupation, but confrontations is what it's built around.

 

I go to my vehicle. I'm texting my special person. She pulls up, gets inside. And I send her that text, two feet away.

 

I felt so bad for her. I felt bad for me. But I really felt for her. This was her town. This was my friend.

 

She and I went to a tiny bar a ways away. And she announced it was over. That night she blocked my number and email. I sent her a letter a day for around ten days.

 

We've not been able to recover from this. As unlikely as something like this would be to happen again, the mortification was so bad, so strong, that it just is permanent.

 

Worst thing is, she thought for a long time that he and I "set this up." I mean, why would I? That's what I mean about her disbelief and wrongful accusation. Though thankfully, for whatever that's worth, I think she came around and decided I didn't have a thing to do with it.

 

But she says to this day that we're over because I failed to protect her. I agree. I failed. But there was no way to unring that bell once my "best" friend bellowed my deepest secret. I just would've ended up in jail. With the whole thing on the Internet forever. And YouTube that night.

 

I've tried to convince her that I really had no play here. Nothing I could do that would be responsible.

 

People she knew closely were in the bar audience. I understand her chagrin. It was awful.

 

I saw him briefly the next day, as he laid on his belly in his motel bed, claiming that yes he remembered last night. And no, he had no apologies. Just amazing to me, man.

 

So now I want nothing to do forever with my "best" friend.

 

And that's what lost the love of my life.

 

She thinks she's the only victim in the situation; that I've suffered nothing from it.

 

My questions, if you're still reading, is:

 

(1) Why do you think he did this? Why'd he get so hysterical?

 

(2) How should I have responded?

 

(3) How could I ever make it up to my special person?

 

 

PS No, I'm not going to tell my wife. So let's just slide right on by that advice, please. I hear you, know you want to say it, it's a given, but it's not what I'm asking right now.

[spice4life]

Hmm. Why did he do it? He's a bipolar pot smoking alcoholic. He doesn't have the capacity to think about anyone but himself and wants the attention all to himself no matter who it hurts. Better word would be self centered.

 

I think you responded appropriately by not confronting him and leaving. Not much else you can do there.

 

As far as your special person goes, you're married so what can you really do other than giving her a heart felt apology for bringing him around when you were with her. By doing that you put both of you at risk for exposure. It sounds like she was not happy with the circumstances of the relationship and couldn't handle it, so it's best to just let her be. If she is single let her find someone single that she can be in a real relationship with. If she's married, well, I dunno. She obviously has issues then so why would you want to be involved with her anyway?

[Leo the Homely Lion]

 

[1] Why did he do it? He's a bipolar pot smoking alcoholic. He doesn't have the capacity to think about anyone but himself and wants the attention all to himself no matter who it hurts. Better word would be self centered.

 

[2] I think you responded appropriately by not confronting him and leaving. Not much else you can do there.

 

[3] As far as your special person goes, you're married so what can you really do other than giving her a heart felt apology for bringing him around when you were with her. By doing that you put both of you at risk for exposure.

 

[4] It sounds like she was not happy with the circumstances of the relationship and couldn't handle it, so it's best to just let her be.

 

[5] If she is single let her find someone single that she can be in a real relationship with.

 

[6] She obviously has issues then so why would you want to be involved with her anyway?

 

[1] I think you're right, to a degree. But I would guess many pot smoking, bipolar drunks are loyal to their friends, right? What do you really think happened here, beyond his intoxication and self-centeredness? Well what do you mean by his self-centeredness? I agree he is, in spades, but how did that play a role? Could mid-life crisis play into it, I dunno?

 

[2] Thank you. It's tormented me, but I think you are right. Nothing I could do. Oh that burns me.

 

[3] I hear you, but he's like this FUNCTIONAL bipolar twisted freak. Plus they got along so great, flirting with each other before!, that I just could not foresee this mortifying public revelation happening, not in a million years.

 

[4] Right. And I am. I sent her an email tonight, saying thanks for everything. I really meant it.

 

[5] She's already with someone else. She told me about it on Valentine's Day.

 

[6] We all have issues. And because I love her. That's why I still want to be with her. I so much do. But I told her that her infidelity to me of a year ago was the limit of my forgiveness. And then she told me of another one, on Valentine's Day. So yeah, it's over. She obviously wants it to be over, doing that and telling me. But it's relationship sandwich inertia, sliding down the cafe counter: her slice of bread stopped, with her slow courting of this newest dude. But that was news to me! And my slice of bread is till moving and it'll take me some time. I really do love her. And I will now accept an award for the worst analogy in the world.

 

Thank you for your response, spice4life.

[stevie_23]

see bolded. you weren't exclusive, and that's the point i'm trying to make regarding OP's situation. he wasn't exclusive with OW, what right does he have to expect her to be exclusive? maybe she was looking for another, exclusive relationship - and she would have every right to.

 

btw, in general terms, i believe that when you're in an affair you aren't faithful to either your spouse OR the AP. hard to look for virtue in that sort of situation.

 

Actually, this is true. I felt I was not being faithful or committed to either my ex-MM or my long term partner. I felt like I wasn't being fair to either of them, but of course I only felt guilty about that with my long term partner because she didn't KNOW and had no choice whereas obviously my ex-MM did.

 

In terms of the being exclusive with my ex-MM, we considered that we were, because we were already with our partners when we met and got together, so somehow we understood that they were a part of our respective lives but that WE (in what we shared together) were exclusive in THAT specific way. It's hard to explain I guess.

 

In terms of the OP and his ex-OW being exclusive, you say he wasn't being exclusive so how could he expect her to? That'd be true apart from the fact that if you consider he was not exclusive because of the fact he was married, well...she was married too (wasn't she?)! He had no issue with that. He had issues with her being with OTHER men on TOP of that. The existing marriage is benign, so to speak. Being with yet more people in addition to that, is not. Maybe it's something to do with you choosing to be with your affair partner DESPITE being married or OVER being married, whereas once you add more people to the equation, you're then choosing them AFTER you have chosen the affair partner. Or something along those lines.

[stevie_23]

Bring the experience, not the emotion, not the agenda, not the snide little petty digs.

 

Um...I can't even remember now what I've said in this particular thread, but I know I tried to offer some advice or insight and experience, some sort of attempt at wisdom, and I don't believe that the OP has really responded in any significant way to anything I've said so far. So...why is that? I post without small-mindedness, without large amounts of bias and skewed perceptions, without snippiness or snappiness...??

[Leo the Homely Lion]

Actually, this is true. I felt I was not being faithful or committed to either my ex-MM or my long term partner. I felt like I wasn't being fair to either of them, but of course I only felt guilty about that with my long term partner because she didn't KNOW and had no choice whereas obviously my ex-MM did.

 

In terms of the being exclusive with my ex-MM, we considered that we were, because we were already with our partners when we met and got together, so somehow we understood that they were a part of our respective lives but that WE (in what we shared together) were exclusive in THAT specific way. It's hard to explain I guess.

 

In terms of the OP and his ex-OW being exclusive, you say he wasn't being exclusive so how could he expect her to? That'd be true apart from the fact that if you consider he was not exclusive because of the fact he was married, well...she was married too (wasn't she?)! He had no issue with that. He had issues with her being with OTHER men on TOP of that. The existing marriage is benign, so to speak. Being with yet more people in addition to that, is not. Maybe it's something to do with you choosing to be with your affair partner DESPITE being married or OVER being married, whereas once you add more people to the equation, you're then choosing them AFTER you have chosen the affair partner. Or something along those lines.

 

Right. I mean, we had an agreement. We have sex with only each other, unless the one of us decides not to -- and in that case, you have to tell the other before it happens.

 

It was an agreement not to cheat on the other.

 

It's not like I was this big bad wolf dominating her life. Before anything happened we had an agreement: don't be sleeping around with other people unless you give the other a heads up.

 

It made perfect sense.

 

One, it's just the decent thing to do.

 

And two, with all the diseases out there, it's irresponsible not to go this route.

 

But it was an agreement.

 

So anybody hear can type till they turn blue in the fingers that Oh I'm a married man and how dare me deny her the liberty to find her own man.

 

That's just imported crap.

 

She and I agreed not to cheat on each other -- and we had opt outs.

 

She cheated once, not giving me the opt out notice, and I barely forgave her, saying I could forgive her only this one time.

 

Then she told me on Valentine's Day that she's been doing some dude for an indeterminate amount of time, I'm guessing about five weeks.

 

So I mean, I'm calling it quits. But she knew that when she told me on Valentine's Day, so she's the one who called it quits.

 

Very abusive, by my lights. But I'm so unsurprised.

 

Just don't think it was this thing where I'm so bad because I'm having sex with my wife (so not!) and she's this poor captive OW just waiting on me.

 

No, we agreed that this would be the case, and we had very efficient opt out provisions.

 

She cheated on me, no other conclusion is reasonable.

 

Thing is, I just "know" it's more than the two I know about. So yeah, we're done. It's just that now *I* know we're done.

[Leo the Homely Lion]

Um...I can't even remember now what I've said in this particular thread, but I know I tried to offer some advice or insight and experience, some sort of attempt at wisdom, and I don't believe that the OP has really responded in any significant way to anything I've said so far. So...why is that? I post without small-mindedness, without large amounts of bias and skewed perceptions, without snippiness or snappiness...??

 

Man, it's not by design. I'll respond to you first thing this evening.

 

I'm only now sorta kinda recognizing some names on this board, so don't take it personally.

 

I don't know who I'm responding to when I do. Two nights ago, I started going one by one to respond to people, from the start of the thread, but then it grew too fast, and I couldn't keep up.

 

I'll find your posts and respond later today, Stevie.

[anna121]

I am curious. Because you had an explicit agreement of exclusivity with your affair partner you feel very betrayed by her sleeping with another.

 

Yet you do not seem to consider, or consider very important, the offer of faithfulness that you made to wife when you married her. It's the incongruity of that position that bugs me.

 

Let me put it this way. Would you have preferred to remain in the dark re your APs dalliances? If the answer is no, on what principle should your wife remain in the dark?

 

I am also intrigued by how strongly you resist the notion that you are a liar. Granted it's a loaded term, but one could look at it purely descriptively. As in, what are you doing most days of your life? It would seem that you have been safeguarding lie that goes to the fundamental basis of your marital agreement. It's not about quantum here - surely you can see that.

 

Basically, you are engaging in lots of rationalizations here and illogical thinking. Which is not unusual for these sitches, but you seem to be quite invested in a sort of analytical framework that is simply not applicable.

 

You cannot reason your way out of the essential wrong you are committing.

[spice4life]

[1] I think you're right, to a degree. But I would guess many pot smoking, bipolar drunks are loyal to their friends, right? What do you really think happened here, beyond his intoxication and self-centeredness? Well what do you mean by his self-centeredness? I agree he is, in spades, but how did that play a role? Could mid-life crisis play into it, I dunno?

 

In my experience with bipolars, they can have a mean streak when they are heading into a mood shift. They are usually totally fine when they are on their meds and balanced, but when they're not they can lack self control. Then add alcohol and pot into the mix and any control they had is completely gone. It sounds like he was off his meds. This happens. They feel good on their meds and then decide they don't need them anymore, go off them and spiral out of control again. That's my best guess.

 

Regarding the self centerdness, I think it's just a matter of not having the capacity to tink beyond themselves and the impact they have on others. They have an unconscious excuse in a sense. They can blame it on the illness without accepting responsibility for their actions. That's another guess though as I'm not an expert.

 

[2] Thank you. It's tormented me, but I think you are right. Nothing I could do. Oh that burns me.

 

[3] I hear you, but he's like this FUNCTIONAL bipolar twisted freak. Plus they got along so great, flirting with each other before!, that I just could not foresee this mortifying public revelation happening, not in a million years.

 

I think he was off his meds and that's why it happened. All bets are off when they are spiraling.

 

[4] Right. And I am. I sent her an email tonight, saying thanks for everything. I really meant it.

 

[5] She's already with someone else. She told me about it on Valentine's Day.

 

[6] We all have issues. And because I love her. That's why I still want to be with her. I so much do. But I told her that her infidelity to me of a year ago was the limit of my forgiveness. And then she told me of another one, on Valentine's Day. So yeah, it's over. She obviously wants it to be over, doing that and telling me. But it's relationship sandwich inertia, sliding down the cafe counter: her slice of bread stopped, with her slow courting of this newest dude. But that was news to me! And my slice of bread is till moving and it'll take me some time. I really do love her. And I will now accept an award for the worst analogy in the world.

 

I'm not saying she is right for not being an adult and telling you in advance that she was moving on. She should have. It just sounds like she couldn't handle the circumstances of being involved with someone who is committed elsewhere. A person has to be able to compartmentalize really well to sustain a relationship like that. Women are not good at compartmentalizing and men are great at it. That's why a MM should not judge a woman's relationship capabilities during an affair. It's not fair to say your relationship with the OW is unstable because it's not an even playing field. If a MM wants to stay in the affair they need to understand that women are different and try their best to minimize upsetting the apple cart.

 

Thank you for your response, spice4life.

 

You're welcome! Answers in bold.

[Leo the Homely Lion]

So we both agree then..I wasn't being snide. I was simply asking a question and trying to offer a different perspective. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the whole point of a public forum...

 

What was your question again? I'm on my phone. Wasn't it something like And what v would your wife think of you cheating? I mean, c'mon. It wasn't a serious question. So it must have been something else. Unless I'm mixing up my posters here!

[spice4life]

To clarify, what I meant about not upsetting the apple cart. Many MM shut down after being with their OW while her emotions are still on the surface. She still needs a connection during that time. When her MM shuts off his emotions like a water faucet afterward, she feels abandoned and it creates feelings of being used. How can a relationship be stable under those circumstances? It's impossible. So MM's should not judge a woman's relationship capabilities when they aren't able to provide an even playing field for her to show who she really is. It's simply not fair. Period.

 

To be clear, this is not a projection of my own circumstances so don't go there.