Expectation Status of OW

[stevie_23]

With the robe type of example, Yoko was a little wacky in her own way. A bit defiant. A bit off the wall. (quite a bit) Determined to do her own thing. Everyone was badmouthing her for killing The Beatles, so she may have been somewhat defiant in a sort of “ignore them because they know nothing and only WE know how we feel so it’s ok, but we’ll show them anyway that we ARE together and it’s right for US” kind of way.

 

John…I don’t know. I don’t think he was thinking all that straight about stuff that would obviously hurt Cynthia’s feelings. I’ve heard this sort of seemingly heartless behaviour before in that time era with Eric Clapton and George Harrison and it’s a bit weird, but maybe it was just the times…drugs, free love, different attitudes. If John was with Yoko now and she needed a robe to wear, if it was Cynthia’s? Well…what difference does it make? It’s a robe. He’s with her now. That sort of thing, you know?

 

How the hell did we even get onto the subject of Yoko!?!? Lol.

[skylarblue]

Or were you in the category of being told your MM had no intentions of leaving his wife but still loved you and needed you for things his marriage couldn't provide him?

I was in this camp. There was no expectation, promise, or want of xMM leaving his W. We saw each other regularly for 5yrs and never discussed it at all. It was just assumed. The first mention is when xMM said he loved me. We discussed our R as more than a PA/FWB for the first time, and I told him I'd never ask or expect him to leave his W. However, I wasn't there to fill in the gaps for him and wouldn't have stayed if I thought I was or that he was in an unhappy M before me.

 

If this is the case, do you feel you were a secondary priority to him, or do you feel his wife was?

In reality I knew his W was always main priority in terms that nothing was more important (even

though he behaved differently) than maintaining his M and providing for his W and family. There are times where I felt I/A/R was priority, but my view of being priority was a superficial, mental, personal, and/or misguided one (although it was to my satisfaction for most of the A).

 

When I needed to feel more effort from him than what he was giving and in putting his M on the line (although I feel it was alot for him to do), I felt less of a priority even though he was going beyond what he did when I felt pleased and prioritized. However, he stated that I was priority for him and never would've thought I'd feel any other way, as he was doing all he could to show me that.

 

Also, did you see your A continuing on indefinitely, with potentially nothing ever changing?

When it was a PA, I didn't see our relationship changing,but I never thought it to be indefinite. Just until I didn't want to do it anymore. When it became EA, I didn't want or plan on it being indefinite, and realistically I knew it couldn't be, but I was willing to and was giving it a try towards that direction (insane!), but I needed things to change. I needed to feel things were more balanced. By his own admission, he was doing the very best he could by me. It wasn't enough, and I just couldn't go on accepting it as enough. I didn't have the spirit or fortitude to.

 

Is there a reason you were content to remain with someone who was not able to give you 100% of himself?

For alot of the A, I stayed because I was happy in it. I was getting out of it what I wanted. For part of the A, I stayed because I felt we were suppose to be together and we loved each other. For the latter part of the A, I stayed because he loved me, he wanted me to, and I didn't want to hurt him.

[stevie_23]

Hmm. The last thing you said resonates when you said you felt you were supposed to be together. Yeah. I felt the same thing about my ex-MM. I still sort of do, which is kind of sad.

 

Also, my ex-MM used to say the same thing…he always made me a priority as best he could…he did all he could to show me he loved me and that I was the priority, but it was all WITHIN his circumstances of course. And that’s not his fault in terms of it not being “enough” for me. But it really was NOT enough for me towards the end because he had so many restrictions due to his wife and living situation. But if he hadn’t ended it, I still would be with him because…I loved him. He made me happy…HE made me happy, not the situation as it stood anymore though. THAT made me incredibly anxious all the time.

[stevie_23]

I don't think that's what she was saying. I think she was saying that having an A in general puts a marriage on the line because it's ALL risky, but that if sometimes he had to go the EXTRA mile to make her feel loved and appreciated and valued as his partner, it would've risked his marriage MORE if he had to go out of his way when he maybe wouldn't normally (due to the added risks)...or something like that anyway.

 

With my ex-MM, towards the end he had so many restrictions on his time because of his wife (3 D-days at that point), and we could ONLY have contact when she was out of the house. But he would often still sneak texts when she was home, and he would also sometimes try and chat online even when she was home. This FREAKED me out because I lived in fear of her finding out again and us being over (which did happen and we were finally over, but it wasn't his fault. He wasn't being risky. There was nothing much we could've done at that point to prevent that final D-day), but at the same time, I felt EXTRA valued because he DID go that extra mile and risk more than usual to be with me. It showed he really DID want to REALLY be with me.

[stevie_23]

HOW did he end it? By simply walking away and not showing up for our next online chat session. We were long distance / online / text and we would always arrange to chat whenever his wife was out (which was a lot). He didn't show up the next time we were supposed to chat, after we had a brief fight the day before and he left abruptly. I waited...and waited...then got offline, disappointed and upset. Alone.

 

The next day I waited again at our normal time. Still he didn't come. I also hadn't received any texts from him either, and he would ALWAYS text me whenever he could, everyday, throughout the day / night (different time zones).

 

I sent him texts and emails, apologising and trying to work things out. I assumed he was furious with me and trying to think things through for a while, with some distance from me.

 

By day 5 I started worrying he wasn't still mad (he'd never gone so long with the silent treatment before) and maybe was in the hospital (he'd been there 6 months before and couldn't tell me because his wife was always there and he had no computer access except when she was there with her laptop).

 

But then on day 8, I checked this website he's got that has all his songs (he writes songs, and so do I) and there was a new one. He was not in the hospital. And the first words of that song were "It's done..." and it was a knife through my heart. THIS was how he told me we were over.

 

I was SO distraught. I kept writing to him (he no longer went to the email account he used for our stuff anymore, so I used another method I knew he would check) and 2 days later, 2 days of me pleading with him to just TALK to me, he finally said the day after our last chat, his wife had shown him his bank records with the payments per month for his secret phone he used to text me. He couldn't deny it. He threw the phone away. Then walked away altogether it seems. He said he'd tried to move on and it was so difficult and that he would always love me and that I was his only true wife, but that we couldn't be together the way we should (in "real life", in person, not just as an affair online, etc. He's always felt that).

 

WHY did he end it? Because it got ridiculously difficult for him to maintain 2 functional and happy lives. His wife kept finding out about us, over and over again. She got paranoid after the first time way back in 2011, and kept trying to find more stuff out, and eventually our time together was reduced so much due to her having to be out for us to be together, and then he got a new job which took even more of his time (he didn't want an office job but had no financial option), he had always struggled with trying to live his life there and still live OUR life. He found it incredibly stressful to have to lie, hide and avoid constantly in order to be with me, and then sometimes I'd put added pressure on him by resenting him and blaming him when he couldn't be with me all the time I wanted him.

 

So...there you go.

Edited February 18, 2013 by stevie_23

[Heather1]

When it 1st happened, both our m were in crisis. We've gone through so many phases throughout the years, but we made an agreement @ the very beginning not to d. If our m fall apart anyway, we revisit. We just both have families & our #1 (or mine) concern is for our kids. I'm almost an empty nester, so we'll see if I stay m'd or not. Just recently he said he loved me for the 1st time, after almost 5 years. The last time I saw him though, I asked him if he saw us together ever & he said what he thinks is going to happen is I'll get a d & find someone else.

 

The only way I can cope is to really have no expectations because otherwise it's just way too hard. We have separate, full lives. In the beginning, I struggled like crazy & would be torn & depressed. We've broken up so many times I can't count, I really wouldn't recommend anyone going this route!! In a way, he's kept me m'd & there for my kids.

 

When he says stuff like I'd find someone else I hear him LOUD & CLEAR that this will only be an A for him. So.....I'm going to keep my heart open & if/when I get a D, it sounds like we're done.

[stevie_23]

Nah, I didn’t mean that *I* thought it was ok for Yoko to wear Cynthia’s robe, I meant that John thought it was ok! Lol.

 

Also, I was thinking it was wrong more along the lines that poor Cynthia had to come home and see another woman blatantly wearing HER robe. It hadn’t even crossed my mind that Yoko would feel weird about wearing a robe with…ah…THAT kind of exposure on it (the yaya remark you made). lol

[stevie_23]

You couldn't just call him?

 

Yes, I tried. It's not a matter of "just" calling him. He had a different phone for our texts and calls to his normal phone (due to his wife), and he had to throw our phone away, so no amount of calling helped. I actually called his normal phone too, even though it was a HUGE risk for him but he didn't answer and I was too scared to leave a msg. His wife has access to that phone.

 

What was the fight about? Was it a volatile relationship? I thought one of the common traits of the OW is she is the refuge, a place to relax and unwind, take a break from the stress of real life...

 

It was a fairly volatile relationship at times, though also VERY stable and happy and settled too. WE were good. Really good. Our situation and the restrictions made things volatile.

The fight was about him not having enough time for me anymore due to his job. I laid into him, verbally attacked him the second he arrived in our chat and it was late for him and he was tired and just couldn't deal with it. He expected to be back to chat again the next day (he wasn't angry by then) but then his wife found his bank records...and it was all too much for him.

 

That's tough. The OW doesn't get a call from family were something to go wrong.

 

Yep. It is EXTREMELY tough.

 

He communicates best through song. He's not the only one.

 

He communicated VERY well throughout our relationship. But when he saw that it was over, it really was OVER in his mind and I sort of stopped existing for him (sort of).

 

He did some other songs after that first one...the next one about 2 weeks later was called "Meet Me In Your Dream" and was about us meeting in his dreams as that was the only way to be together now.

 

The next song after that was called "A Heart Like Mine" and was about how his heart was now cold, cold steel and he couldn't feel anymore and this was the only way he could heal and such other things.

 

He's right. It's a BIG difference.

 

He's right about the stress. And stress is a silent killer. Sooner or later, a decision must be made.

 

Thank you for so eloquently relating your experience. I am sure I am far from the only one to benefit from your candor.

 

Thank you!

[stevie_23]

Oh, and also, yes, traditionally I guess the OW is a refuge, a mistress, a sanctuary from the tedium, responsibility and stress of a marriage, but in OUR case…we never felt it was a mistress / married man thing, or even that it was an affair at all. It just felt like we were in a relationship and we quite early on said we felt like we were already married. We were each other’s spiritual husband and wife.

 

Neither of us needed or wanted a specific “refuge” from our lives. We DID escape from our difficulties of course, and use each other in that way, but in terms of him wanting me to be a perfect “mistress”, causing no stress and no issues and having no problems and no negative feelings? No way. He wanted a wife. A wife he LOVED and was IN love with and who he felt represented who HE was. He already HAS a real-life wife, but she wasn’t what he wanted. He wanted ME for his wife. He didn’t want just a “mistress”. He didn’t want TWO wives, but he wanted ME as his only wife.

[fooled2manyX]

This topic is the hurt in my hurt. I have posted my story in the past. I didn't go into it wanting an affair. I don't believe he did either. We reconnected as friends a few years back, but the feelings were evident. So, we parted ways. I didn't think anything of parting because it "was what it was" and his kids were practically babies.

 

This time around (last summer) when we saw eachother again, he verbalized that he wanted us together & there was only one way to make that happen. Divorce. So, that "was" the plan. Although he did not want to leave his kids, he professed that his love for me was great enough, that he knew he wanted to be with me & leave the marriage.

 

He saw me after she found out. But, he found out that she knew, from me. (she had text me once). However, they had d-day after I last saw him. He never returned. He never contacted me again. No goodbye. Nothing.

 

It's nearly three months and I am still crushed and depressed. To make it worse, I just buried my grandfather & now I hurt even more.

 

I still think about finding him at his job to have him see my face.... even though this time has passed. Everyday is Groundhog's Day. Everyday is painful. I am not saying I didn't cause pain. I am not even saying that we will or could be together. He made his choice. But, I am still haunted by his disappearence. It kills me.

[Summer Breeze]

I had strong feelings for him before the subject of an A came up. I knew his family and a lot of his friends and colleagues. He had some issues at home that he had in his mind made it impossible to leave.

 

He never promised me anything. He wasn't going to leave and he never tried to fool me into thinking he would or that we had any kind of future. Once he started a sentence and I stopped him in his tracks.

 

I set out my boundaries and made them so ridiculous I figured he'd say no way. He didn't and we began our R.

 

My expectations of a future with him were nothing. My expectations of how I would be treated while we were together were very high and I never compromised on them.

[Sarabi]

Sarabi, it’s funny how your MM said if it didn’t work out with him and his wife, he would come and find you…like this is supposed to be some romantic thing to say. Hmm. I don’t get some people’s attitudes towards love and respecting people they’re supposed to love. I have a friend online who has been married for many years and is happy and loves his wife, but he’s had an online girlfriend for 2 years and he told me if things were different (if he wasn’t already with his wife), he would be very happy to be married to that girlfriend. But…which one does he really WANT? You know what I mean? If he TRULY was so deeply in love with the girlfriend, why not leave his wife and marry her then? And if he’s truly in love with the wife, why have the girlfriend too? Ugh. Obviously it’s not so simple I guess.

 

Considering it now...it might well be true. I don't want to say it is or it isn't. I am not him, I don't know what his feelings really are...but in some ways it is a bit cruel:

1) its kind of giving you a little bit of hope and not allowing/wanting you to let go properly

2) its like saying: "I don't want to leave my situation just now...but if ever she did the unthinkable and I found myself alone, being as I can't cope without being with someone, ANYONE, for the sake of being in a relationship...I can come and find you and we can be together :)"

 

I think thats a fair interpretation...

 

As for which one he really wants..? I never ever wanted to put him on the spot and ask him questions like that. I never wanted to go through all that "oh...he loves me more and really wants to be with me but he's with her instead" line of thinking. It would become and even bigger headf**k.

He is a big boy. Let me just assume I am not enough for him and he is exactly where he wants to be.

[Sarabi]

I also get the having nothing else to look forward to in life thing. That sounds sort of sad, but I was aware, while in my A, that it gave me something to really look forward to doing every evening when we’d come together online to chat. In the morning I’d look forward to waking up to his texts. He was a major source of comfort, and he kept me distracted from the unhappy aspects of my life in general. I did also love him very, very much (and still do), but the need aspect was more powerful than the love aspect, unfortunately.

 

yes absolutely, having something to look forward to. Being distracted and getting texts in the morning...I relate to that

I would also go see him before I started work

 

Sarabi!! Why do you believe you can never be the only one, to anyone single or otherwise? Of COURSE you can!! You deserve to be!!

Meh...have given up totally. Am so bored of waiting and hoping...!

[fooled2manyX]

Stevie_23, I have read many of your posts..but, please remind me. Did your xMM tell you it was over? Or just disappear as mine?

 

I was reading some of the other posts ppl left. I often wonder a lot about the vanishing act he gave. I see it was to commit to the marriage, to have absolutely no contact. But, I also know he could have found a way to say goodbye if he wanted to. So, I am left wondering if he didn't want to only for her.... or because he didn't know how to say goodbye to me. Or to leave it open. Not that it could be. Not that I can wait for a man who most likely will never return. Sit here idle for the duration. Even though that's still what I have done for 3 months.

[Toots]

This is for anyone who is a current OW (or OM) or an ex-OW (OM). (I don't want to have to write OW / OM every single time and most "other people" here seem to be women, so I'll just use the terms OW and MM here, but any OM here, please respond as well)

 

What was your "expectation status" as an OW / when you were an OW?

 

Meaning, were you in the category of waiting for your MM to leave his wife? Like actively waiting, because he'd told you the marriage was dead or on its last legs even before you met, and throughout your A, he told you that you WOULD be together at some stage and that he WOULD leave his wife?

 

If this was your scenario, did you truly believe your MM? And how long would you wait if nothing was really decided or acted upon yet (and with no definite timeframe) by the MM?

 

Or were you in the category of being told your MM had no intentions of leaving his wife but still loved you and needed you for things his marriage couldn't provide him? If this is the case, do you feel you were a secondary priority to him, or do you feel his wife was?

 

Also, did you see your A continuing on indefinitely, with potentially nothing ever changing? Is there a reason you were content to remain with someone who was not able to give you 100% of himself?

 

This has all been pretty much said in the past tense, because I'm an ex-OW, but I also mean this for anyone who is still currently an OW.

 

I'm just wondering whether it's more "typical" for OW to need to know that ONE DAY they will be "the only one"?

 

I had no expectation of the A being anything more than an A. And when I got tired of it, I left.

[Pierre]

An OW has lower expectations than a young single female dating single men.

 

The low expectations may be due to low self esteem. memes, or a later stage in life where the OW is older and has already been married with children.

 

A few OW have stopped believing in marriage and claim no expectation.

[Got it]

An OW has lower expectations than a young single female dating single men.

 

The low expectations may be due to low self esteem. memes, or a later stage in life where the OW is older and has already been married with children.

 

A few OW have stopped believing in marriage and claim no expectation.

 

I disagree as well. I had same/higher expectations since he was married. He needed to show every day why I should choose to be in an affair with him as that was a great honor to bestow upon him. I expected many hurdles jump through.

[Pierre]

I disagree as well. I had same/higher expectations since he was married. He needed to show every day why I should choose to be in an affair with him as that was a great honor to bestow upon him. I expected many hurdles jump through.

 

Glad to hear there are exceptions to the rule!

[Pierre]

Not in my case. He really is a winner.

 

 

Winners don't cheat.

 

 

I guess I'm the exception. My self esteem is intact, there was some infidelity in my upbringing, and I don't consider myself "older", never married, no kids.

 

 

If your self esteem was intact you would demand much more--or you would not allowed this man to treat you as an OW. See the post of "Got It".

 

 

If I am to stay in love with him, I may not marry -- true.

 

Many OWs say they don't believe in marriage because MM will never ask for marriage. It is rationalization. Please seek IC.

 

A young woman with options deserves much better. I could see your point if you were older, divorced, and with children. Otherwise, you deserve much more.

[spice4life]

Winners don't cheat.

 

 

 

 

If your self esteem was intact you would demand much more--or you would not allowed this man to treat you as an OW. See the post of "Got It".

 

 

 

Many OWs say they don't believe in marriage because MM will never ask for marriage. It is rationalization. Please seek IC.

 

A young woman with options deserves much better. I could see your point if you were older, divorced, and with children. Otherwise, you deserve much more.

 

Umm, Pierre, the bolded part above is absolutely insulting and sexist. I never considered myself to not have options. As a matter of fact, I totally enjoy being the age I am now because I have wisdom, youthful looks and love the person I've become. Age only effects if you let it. I have more options now than I did when I was younger!

[Pierre]

Maybe it's a "genius" thing. Look at all the extra-relationships Bob Marley had...

 

 

You are guilty of an ethical fallacy:

 

 

7. The King's Pass

 

One will often hear unethical behavior excused because the person involved is so important, so accomplished, and has done such great things for so many people that we should look the other way, just this once. This is a terribly dangerous mindset, because celebrities and powerful public figures come to depend on it. Their achievements, in their own minds and those of their supporters and fans, have earned them a more lenient ethical standard. This pass for bad behavior is as insidious as it is pervasive, and should be recognized and rejected when ever it raises its slimy head. Quite separate from the corrupting influence on the individual of The King's Pass is its ability to corrupt others through…

 

 

 

I have many options. I just happen to like him most.

 

Nope, I woman with options does not lower her standards and descend to the level of concubine. But, if you truly have options then you would need to reassess your self esteem.

 

 

I am still a believer in happy endings. All things in due time, and what is meant to be will be.

 

Do you believe in destiny?

[Pierre]

Umm, Pierre, the bolded part above is absolutely insulting and sexist. I never considered myself to not have options. As a matter of fact, I totally enjoy being the age I am now because I have wisdom, youthful looks and love the person I've become. Age only effects if you let it. I have more options now than I did when I was younger!

 

Are you OW?

 

Why?

[ComingInHot]

Got It;

Since you have/had very high expectations regarding the way Mm treated you, Would you have been angry being introduced to his W & minimized the he did her? Or would you have taken it as him "protecting" you AND his W & himself because it's a secret relationship?

 

I am totally sincere in my curiosity and attempt at understanding the situation of an A**

[Quiet Storm]

 

A young woman with options deserves much better. I could see your point if

you were older, divorced, and with children. Otherwise, you deserve much

more.

 

I can see how some would view this statement as sexist, but I believe there is a lot of truth in it. It's just not very politically correct. Whether we like it or not, youth and beauty is a valuable commodity in the dating world. An aging woman with kids is not usually seen as desirable as a younger woman, so her pool of single men may not have as many attractive prospects. It is easier to undertand why she would settle. Not because she feels she doesn't deserve better, but because she is logical and realistic about her circumstances.

 

I think this scenario is similar to when you see a young, beautiful woman with an unemployed loser drug addict. She has so many options and chooses from the bottom of the barrell. Why? The usual answer is that she loves him as a person, just hates his circumstances. Okay, but why does she love him? Why does that love feel valuable to her? Because broken attracts broken. There is some kind of unconscious need that he is meeting in her. It could be "daddy issues". It could be that choosing someone "beneath her" creates a feeling of superiority. She could need to feel loved so badly that any love, even love from a loser, feels valuable to her. The dynamics are endless, but feeling "love" doesn't mean it's healthy and it doesn't mean you are meant to be.

 

Emotionally healthy women don't usually see the love of a married man as valuable. It doesn't make them feel special, but kind of insulted that he would think she is willing to go there. The attention of a married man is not something that sparks a validating feeling in most emotionally healthy women.

 

I know those in the middle of an affair truly feel love. I am not denying that. I just believe it is not usually a healthy kind of love, but a "using" kind of love. Two emotionally hungry people that are feeding off each other in a parasitic way.

 

We all have issues. Some of us recognize and work on those issues, and learn to actively protect ourselves from situations that may be bad for us. We learn to be our own parent, and keep ourselves out of harms way (not just physical harm, but emotional harm). Others just float through life, making choices based on their emotions, without any introspection. They don't think, what do I need and why do I need that? They take their emotions at face value, feeling & defending that love with every ounce of their being, without thinking of the dynamics behind why that love feels so strong, and why it hurts so bad.

[MissBee]

I can see how some would view this statement as sexist, but I believe there is a lot of truth in it. It's just not very politically correct. Whether we like it or not, youth and beauty is a valuable commodity in the dating world. An aging woman with kids is not usually seen as desirable as a younger woman, so her pool of single men may not have as many attractive prospects. It is easier to undertand why she would settle. Not because she feels she doesn't deserve better, but because she is logical and realistic about her circumstances.

 

I think this scenario is similar to when you see a young, beautiful woman with an unemployed loser drug addict. She has so many options and chooses from the bottom of the barrell. Why? The usual answer is that she loves him as a person, just hates his circumstances. Okay, but why does she love him? Why does that love feel valuable to her? Because broken attracts broken. There is some kind of unconscious need that he is meeting in her. It could be "daddy issues". It could be that choosing someone "beneath her" creates a feeling of superiority. She could need to feel loved so badly that any love, even love from a loser, feels valuable to her. The dynamics are endless, but feeling "love" doesn't mean it's healthy and it doesn't mean you are meant to be.

 

Emotionally healthy women don't usually see the love of a married man as valuable. It doesn't make them feel special, but kind of insulted that he would think she is willing to go there. The attention of a married man is not something that sparks a validating feeling in most emotionally healthy women.

 

I know those in the middle of an affair truly feel love. I am not denying that. I just believe it is not usually a healthy kind of love, but a "using" kind of love. Two emotionally hungry people that are feeding off each other in a parasitic way.

 

We all have issues. Some of us recognize and work on those issues, and learn to actively protect ourselves from situations that may be bad for us. We learn to be our own parent, and keep ourselves out of harms way (not just physical harm, but emotional harm). Others just float through life, making choices based on their emotions, without any introspection. They don't think, what do I need and why do I need that? They take their emotions at face value, feeling & defending that love with every ounce of their being, without thinking of the dynamics behind why that love feels so strong, and why it hurts so bad.

 

If I could like this 1000 times I would!

 

It's not just for affairs but all kinds of people in all kinds of relationships.

 

One of the most valuable things I've learned in terms of feelings/emotions and relationships is that lots of situations can feel good/exciting and even like love...when they are unsustainable and unhealthy and that the "heart wants what the heart wants" is a platitude. Our emotions usually have basis behind them and who we feel for and the situations we entertain or gravitate towards aren't spontaneous, but tell a story. You grow and choose wisely as you learn "your story" and often times if it's not such a great one, you can change it by knowing what it is and working on that. But the aimless and simplistic mentality of "the heart wants what it wants" etc. usually doesn't get one very far.