Do you think the majority of MM in affairs will EVER feel their OW is 100% worthy?

[stevie_23]

By this, I mean…most of the time, no matter how much love there is, no matter how deep the feelings go, no matter how much wanting and longing there is to really BE together, the MM does not leave his wife or existing situation.

 

So…is this because even right from the very beginning, their relationship and this person is portrayed and represented as “other” and “secondary” and “inappropriate”? And does this EVER change fully, even after years and years and even if the MM DOES end up leaving his wife to be with his OW?

 

Will she ALWAYS be the OW somewhere in his mind? Somewhere deep down, will the OW always feel lesser than what she needs because of how things started and how things were? And for those MM who DO leave their wives and marry the OW, are they more easily able to one day cheat on her with another OW because their marriage, due to the way it started with her as the “other”, is not QUITE 100% real to him somehow?

 

Just curious.

[wanting more]

I had a friend who was married for about 22 years and she started seeing a MM who had been married for over 30 years. After 3 months they both left and divorced their spouses and have been together almost 7 years now. I think (my opinion) if time passes (a couple months) and no ones left their marriage for the affair partner, it's just cake eating. If a MM or MW really wants to be with the AP they leave in the very beginning of the A. I know not in ALL cases, but I think in most.

[stevie_23]

I don’t think I’ve ever said I deserved better than how my ex-MM treated me.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever said I deserved better, full stop. I am VERY lucky for what I have. I have a loving partner of almost 12 years. SHE deserves better than me and my recent actions.

 

I deserved better than letting myself fall in love with a taken man who ended up having to leave me because of that situation that was basically present from the beginning. Whether or not I deserved to have him leave me is a moot point. I deserved better than to place myself in that position in the first place.

[flattened]

Well, if you're saying the majority of MM in affairs, I guess so. Given that most don't leave their wives.

 

But, no, not always. I never thought of the xOW as less than 100% worthy. I just fell in love with someone I thought was wonderful. I never had any feeling that she was "secondary" or "inappropriate". I certainly felt/feel more strongly about her than I ever did about my wife. Which sucks for all parties.

 

So, I don't know if 1 MM who doesn't feel that way counts for you.

[stevie_23]

It certainly does count.

 

I believe my ex-MM felt that way about me too. He certainly told me he did.

[fooled2manyX]

Flattened, I like that you wrote what you did. MFH70, seems to often come to the OM/OW forum to tell us how wrong we've all been. You being a MM, can voice that it isn't always how he/she makes it. That is....

 

... that MM gets caught or chooses to tell wife. And then they sit and reconcile (which is good!) but that the expression that follows is that the OP was no one, a seductress who lured, manipulated, & that the MM just magically overnight doesn't care about the OW.

 

It doesn't always happen that way. Granted, if the wayward chooses to try to keep the marriage, of course he has to let the OP go. But that doesn't mean his thoughts or feelings of the OP are gone. Or "bad". MFH70, he/she after all was the one who betrayed. It wouldn't be true reconciliation for the married person to make the person they involved themselves with (unless it was just some hooker) to be some nobody.

 

If that were the case.. then the cheater is really the nobody and reconciliation with his/her spouse really isn't happening. I mean, I laugh to think that even if he spouts "She meant nothing to me", chances are he's STILL lying. Unless is was just a roll in the hay.

 

Not all affairs are. As clearly "Flattened" has pointed out. And again, in my situation, even though my xMM choose to stay in his marriage and leave me completely to do so... I believe even if he told her, for the sake of keeping the family intact, that I meant nothing to him, that he is lying. Because while he may not be here, there has never been a time in 20 years I meant nothing to that man. We lost touch and he married someone else. Yes.

 

 

Reconciliation will happen for a number of reasons. Love for the spouse, sure. Children FOR SURE.... money, bills, house, support, alimony, family members, etc.

 

But it's not always because the OW/OM meant nothing to the cheater. No, vows shouldn't be broken. It's an imperfect world. But piece of paper or not.. it doesn't dictate how one person can feel for another. Even outside of a marriage. It happens.

 

Then, if they choose to reconcile.. they should. If it can be. But MFH70 again, don't go fooling yourself thinking that the OP wasn't worthy, even if the cheater says to the spouse they weren't to save their a**. It's a lie too.

[cocorico]

By this, I mean…most of the time, no matter how much love there is, no matter how deep the feelings go, no matter how much wanting and longing there is to really BE together, the MM does not leave his wife or existing situation.

 

So…is this because even right from the very beginning, their relationship and this person is portrayed and represented as “other” and “secondary” and “inappropriate”? And does this EVER change fully, even after years and years and even if the MM DOES end up leaving his wife to be with his OW?

 

Will she ALWAYS be the OW somewhere in his mind? Somewhere deep down, will the OW always feel lesser than what she needs because of how things started and how things were? And for those MM who DO leave their wives and marry the OW, are they more easily able to one day cheat on her with another OW because their marriage, due to the way it started with her as the “other”, is not QUITE 100% real to him somehow?

 

Just curious.

 

I can't speak for "the majority" of MM, but I can speak about the two cases I know most intimately.

 

My father waited until the kids were out the house, the D and M his fOW. They've been together now about 30 years, much longer than he was with his xW. I see the way he treats his W, and remember how he was with his xW, and it's chalk and cheese. The man who did not have a romantic bone in his body has become Mr Romantic, he treats her royally, hangs on her every word, is deeply in love after all this time and hasn't a single bad thing to say about her. His xW OTOH he refuses to talk about because he hasn't a single good thing to say about her. They are blissfully happy and have never had a moment of regret. He does not consider her in any way "lesser" because she was willing to engage in an A -OTC, he sees that as a mark of her love for him, that she was willing to do even that, and willing to wait for him to D, where his xW's "love" was fickle and feeble.

 

My H let's me know every day how much he loves me, how much I mean to him, and shows me in so many ways. I have never been "lesser" or "secondary", even during the A. I was the one whose feelings mattered, the one who was publicly feted as his partner, the one he romanced and relished. There was never any question in my mind about my priority ranking. He had Eyes's for no one else, and still does not. Do I worry that he may one day find it "easier" to cheat, given that our R started as an A? His previous M also started as an A, yet he managed 30 years of exclusivity, despite how badly he was treated in the M. With a track record like that, I could feel pretty smug (in 30 years we'll both be too old to bother) but TBH I'm more interested in who he is now, and who he will become, than who he was - and the same for myself. I see Rs as living, growing, changing things, adapting as the people in them grow and change, and our R will be only as healthy as we nurture it to be. I have no fears for the future.

[cocorico]

I believe this part is true. I truly believe that women who are wrong to condone cheating when it's in their favor lose their credibility and are always then lesser in the MMs eyes than the faithful woman he betrayed. How could she not be? Who would choose someone willing to support cheating over someone who wouldn't?

 

Someone who is not a hypocrite. Someone who recognises their own role - they, who made the vows that were broken, not some uninvolved person who owed nothing to the BS - and recognises that if they were willing to engage in an A, they are in no position to stand in judgment of the person who partnered them in doing so. In other words, someone with integrity - and certainly more integrity than the hypocrite who absolves themselves and then stands in judgment of their fAP, scapegoating them in an afford to distance themselves from their own "sin". And who would want such a hypocrite for a partner anyway?

[fooled2manyX]

what you said, MFH70, is you can't see any "decent" man looking back and seeing the OW as worthy. Which implies that any halfway decent man looks at a woman he had an affair with as what?

 

Not marriage material? Dirty? Trashy? Not decent? Below par? an object?

 

Again, you are making the OW out to be prostitutes. Women who lower themselves for sex. You have it all wrong. Your view of women is tainted.

 

First, some men fall in love with their OW. Some men do marry those other women. Have families with those OW. Wrong though it may be that it started as an affair, that does not mean the OW isn't worthy. Or decent.

 

And if a man lies to a woman while with her and then truly views her as "unworthy" when he is caught (no matter what he tells his wife) then the problem lies with HIM. Not the value of the OW.

[fooled2manyX]

Seriously MFH70? To move on, I don't devalue what took place. He chose his family, sure. Ok. That doesn't mean we didn't have value. Omg your views are warped. I don't have to look at it and devalue it, or minimize it to move on.

 

You imply affairs mean the woman was nothing to the man. My lord.

 

Oh and I don't need to become a "better person". I'm a good person. A very good person. No one in this was a "bad person"

[skywriter]

By this, I mean…most of the time, no matter how much love there is, no matter how deep the feelings go, no matter how much wanting and longing there is to really BE together, the MM does not leave his wife or existing situation.

 

So…is this because even right from the very beginning, their relationship and this person is portrayed and represented as “other” and “secondary” and “inappropriate”? And does this EVER change fully, even after years and years and even if the MM DOES end up leaving his wife to be with his OW?

 

Will she ALWAYS be the OW somewhere in his mind? Somewhere deep down, will the OW always feel lesser than what she needs because of how things started and how things were? And for those MM who DO leave their wives and marry the OW, are they more easily able to one day cheat on her with another OW because their marriage, due to the way it started with her as the “other”, is not QUITE 100% real to him somehow?

 

Just curious.

Honestly, I didn't consider his thoughts of me as an "other" as much as I considered my opinion of myself.

 

The more I came to realise about him and how he seemed to view women in general. It was more about the fact that I let myself down.

 

The entire A dynamic caused me to have feelings of" lesser than".

[thomasb]

I myself would NEVER have married a woman who cheated with me. Double standard I know. But I did, and do look down on her for it. And people may as well face that fact that most of society does. Whether it is right or wrong I won't debate. I can't even imagine explaining that to my parents.

[jwi71]

 

So…is this because even right from the very beginning, their relationship and this person is portrayed and represented as “other” and “secondary” and “inappropriate”?

 

 

I think the best way to illustrate how moving from A to M is how these now M couples describes HOW they met when asked. I wonder how many say "We were having an A and, well, look at us now".

 

The A part is left out, glossed over, minimized - you get the idea. That is, its kept secret. Even here on LS you see OW and MM plan on, after the WS moves out, announcing they have "suddenly started dating"...hiding the A.

[Summer Breeze]

I think the best way to illustrate how moving from A to M is how these now M couples describes HOW they met when asked. I wonder how many say "We were having an A and, well, look at us now".

 

The A part is left out, glossed over, minimized - you get the idea. That is, its kept secret. Even here on LS you see OW and MM plan on, after the WS moves out, announcing they have "suddenly started dating"...hiding the A.

 

That's not true in all cases. DMM and I went to dinner with an old friend of his the other night and when he and his W asked about how we met dMM spoke up and told them. No apologies whatsoever about how we met. They asked some questions and we answered them and that was that. I don't lie about things because it always comes back to bite you. I was really pleased dMM was so honest about it.

 

The other thing is that if someone who we barely know asks how we met I'd say the same as if there hadn't been an A -- we had some mutual business acquaintances and I also knew quite a few members of his family. I wouldn't start the story with 'well, we were both single.......'. The people who are close enough to know will know the fine details, the ones who aren't won't know the fine details.

[Summer Breeze]

I myself would NEVER have married a woman who cheated with me. Double standard I know. But I did, and do look down on her for it. And people may as well face that fact that most of society does. Whether it is right or wrong I won't debate. I can't even imagine explaining that to my parents.

 

I don't understand how you can feel that way but I have no problem with you having a double standard. Almost all of us have them about something. It's just admitting that they're there that's half the battle.

[Pierre]

By this, I mean…most of the time, no matter how much love there is, no matter how deep the feelings go, no matter how much wanting and longing there is to really BE together, the MM does not leave his wife or existing situation.

 

 

I have discussed this many times before. Within the affair bubble the wandering spouse is 100% in. Once the affair bubble breaks the wandering spouse is not 100% in.

[Got it]

By this, I mean…most of the time, no matter how much love there is, no matter how deep the feelings go, no matter how much wanting and longing there is to really BE together, the MM does not leave his wife or existing situation.

 

So…is this because even right from the very beginning, their relationship and this person is portrayed and represented as “other” and “secondary” and “inappropriate”? And does this EVER change fully, even after years and years and even if the MM DOES end up leaving his wife to be with his OW?

 

Will she ALWAYS be the OW somewhere in his mind? Somewhere deep down, will the OW always feel lesser than what she needs because of how things started and how things were? And for those MM who DO leave their wives and marry the OW, are they more easily able to one day cheat on her with another OW because their marriage, due to the way it started with her as the “other”, is not QUITE 100% real to him somehow?

 

Just curious.

 

One changing their marital status and assessing another's worth are radically different things.

 

I really think the best answer is . . . it depends.

[Got it]

I myself would NEVER have married a woman who cheated with me. Double standard I know. But I did, and do look down on her for it. And people may as well face that fact that most of society does. Whether it is right or wrong I won't debate. I can't even imagine explaining that to my parents.

 

There may be some truth to this as statistically it has shown more men struggle getting over their wive's infidelities than vice versa. More divorces happen. It may be a double standard by males.

[carhill]

We dissect it a lot on these forums, but overlapping relationships have been going on throughout time and history has proven the results to be a mixed bag. Some process to 'worthy', some to 'less than completely worthy', some to 'unworthy'. Some end up life partners until death, some together/married for many years then divorce, some only together a short time.

 

Personally, I view every person I've loved as 'worthy' unless and until the relationship dynamic proves us to be incompatible. They're still worthy, but we're just not worthy in a healthy way with each other. They/I can go on to be worthy with another partner, or alone.

[jwi71]

That's not true in all cases. DMM and I went to dinner with an old friend of his the other night and when he and his W asked about how we met dMM spoke up and told them. No apologies whatsoever about how we met. They asked some questions and we answered them and that was that. I don't lie about things because it always comes back to bite you. I was really pleased dMM was so honest about it.

 

The other thing is that if someone who we barely know asks how we met I'd say the same as if there hadn't been an A -- we had some mutual business acquaintances and I also knew quite a few members of his family. I wouldn't start the story with 'well, we were both single.......'. The people who are close enough to know will know the fine details, the ones who aren't won't know the fine details.

 

You are correct - there will always be exceptions to the rule - and those exceptions don't invalidate the rule.

 

However, I must also admit, after some thought, that in time, it won't matter so much to those involved (the now H and W). And so why not be open about it?

 

Hmmm.

[Washingmachine1980]

No, the OW is just the fun girl. Fun=sex in the male world.

[Finally Settled]

No, the OW is just the fun girl. Fun=sex in the male world.

 

Actually fun = golf in the wold of this male.

 

To the original question. I certainly can't speak for the majority of married men, but I can tell you that my other woman was, and is, completely worthy of a full relationship. I can also say that she was never less in my thoughts or estimation than my wife was.

[Finally Settled]

We dissect it a lot on these forums, but overlapping relationships have been going on throughout time and history has proven the results to be a mixed bag. Some process to 'worthy', some to 'less than completely worthy', some to 'unworthy'. Some end up life partners until death, some together/married for many years then divorce, some only together a short time.

 

Personally, I view every person I've loved as 'worthy' unless and until the relationship dynamic proves us to be incompatible. They're still worthy, but we're just not worthy in a healthy way with each other. They/I can go on to be worthy with another partner, or alone.

 

 

Very well said carhill.

 

I would wonder about the person who says that they were willing to be involved with a partner they considered to be 'less' than themselves. To me that is the person I would be most wary of.

[beenburned]

I would imagine that the MM who divorce to marry their OW do consider her worthy, or else they wouldn't have married her.

 

But that still does not mean that their new marriage would work out or last.(due to issues within themselves that were not addressed)

 

My sister has been married to her former MM(very short term affair) for 15 years with no problems.

 

My former son-in-law left to marry his OW. They had 2 kids before she left him for an OM. She also left the 2 kids with him to raise.

 

There was a very thought provoking thread here last year about the different reasons why the MM and the OW pick a certain person for an affair. (how their goals for doing so can be totally opposite)

[Cali408]

Mine was 100% worthy. I would have married her no questions asked if I was single. It just couldn't work out from a family, career and logistic standpoint.

Although I was incredibly selfish, I loved my wife and wasn't going to abandon my son and daughter.