Do you think the majority of MM in affairs will EVER feel their OW is 100% worthy?

February 19, 2013

Mine was 100% worthy. I would have married her no questions asked if I was single. It just couldn't work out from a family, career and logistic standpoint.
Although I was incredibly selfish, I loved my wife and wasn't going to abandon my son and daughter.

I felt the same for the full time of the affair. She ended it and I was left with a marriage I shredded into tatters because I couldn't bring myself to actually leave what I'd vowed to devote my entire life to.

February 19, 2013

I think an MM finding an OW "unworthy" is irony at its finest in a pot/kettle kind of way. The whole notion is highly amusing (but that type of hypocrisy does seem to happen quite a bit).

February 19, 2013

I think an MM finding an OW "unworthy" is irony at its finest in a pot/kettle kind of way. The whole notion is highly amusing (but that type of hypocrisy does seem to happen quite a bit).

I very much agree. My actions hurt two women I loved very deeply. If there is anyone unworthy, it is me.

February 19, 2013

I very much agree. My actions hurt two women I loved very deeply. If there is anyone unworthy, it is me.

Well, none of us humans is Mother Teresa and we are all unworthy in our own fashion. I just found it amusing to envision a person being viewed as unworthy by another person who is, by their own definition, just as unworthy.

Not that I personally find either person unworthy, but I do find one of them illogical.

February 19, 2013

Even though the affair is over (bar my stupidity), I still think the xOW is worthy. I really loved her.

Of course I feel terrible about hurting my wife. But there's no question I would have chosen to be in a committed long-term relationship with the xOW if I could have. And no, the fact that the relationship started as an affair had no bearing at all on how I felt about her.

February 19, 2013

Your comment doesn't make much sense to me because you contradict yourself unless you feel you loved 2 women. I think a lot of mm feel that way......but the thing is, both women lose because of selfishness, (you yourself admitted it). The wife gets shafted and so does the ow. That's why married persons are often viewed as the bad guys........there are no happy endings in cases like yours. Just pain all around. Agree?

What doesn't make sense? You can love 2 people. Was I disrespectful toward my vows, my marriage, my wife, yes, absolutely, but I did love her.

My marriage has a happy ending, but there was pain all around.

February 19, 2013

No, the OW is just the fun girl. Fun=sex in the male world.

For some, perhaps....but I think the majority actually love the OW dearly. "Affair bubble" or not.

What inevitably happens is that the MM while caught up in the euphoria of the A underestimates the realities of a full divorce and all of the ramifications involved. Then, perhaps, it becomes flat out almost impossible to leave(or impossible to leave on the terms that suits the OW). She(OW) just runs out of patience..

Hypothetical scenario...Hand the average Joe MM a check for 20 million dollars. Do you think he will run away with the AP or go back to the BS? The reason I bring this up is that the few people that I know that have gotten divorced and are still with their AP' are all wealthy. Lets face it, its one thing to give you wife half(or more) of a fortune-yet still live comfortably. Its another story when the MM gets clobbered and has to settle in some crummy apartment and his lifestyle is severely compromised....

Yes, we all know that true love should know no obstacles, but life is what it is...

TFOY

February 19, 2013

I think the best way to illustrate how moving from A to M is how these now M couples describes HOW they met when asked. I wonder how many say "We were having an A and, well, look at us now".

The A part is left out, glossed over, minimized - you get the idea. That is, its kept secret. Even here on LS you see OW and MM plan on, after the WS moves out, announcing they have "suddenly started dating"...hiding the A.

Perhaps this happens more in parts of the world that are more judgmental. We have never denied or minimised that we had an A. When people ask how we met, we tell them - and we've never had a negative response. In every single case people have responded by thinking it very romantic, "love wins out over adversity" etc. we moved mountains to be together, and we don't care who knows. It shows how much we value each other.

February 19, 2013

I myself would NEVER have married a woman who cheated with me. Double standard I know. But I did, and do look down on her for it. And people may as well face that fact that most of society does. Whether it is right or wrong I won't debate. I can't even imagine explaining that to my parents.

I guess some people find hypocrisy easier to live with than authenticity.

Personally, I value integrity in a person. Hypocrisy would be a Dealbreaker for me.

February 19, 2013

I think it depends on why the affair was had....

If he or she was truly in a loveless marriage and fall in love with another, usually the do leave fairly quickly and forge a new life together.

If they weren't in a loveless marriage but bored, complacent and mid-life crisis ing and wanted the attention, validation and flattery from someone new and attracted to them.....well, that's a different reason.

how your affair partner views you in the aftermath of a DDay, or after a break-up, I would assume, is a very good gauge of how much worth you actually held in their estimation.

February 19, 2013

For some, perhaps....but I think the majority actually love the OW dearly. "Affair bubble" or not.

What inevitably happens is that the MM while caught up in the euphoria of the A underestimates the realities of a full divorce and all of the ramifications involved. Then, perhaps, it becomes flat out almost impossible to leave(or impossible to leave on the terms that suits the OW). She(OW) just runs out of patience..

Hypothetical scenario...Hand the average Joe MM a check for 20 million dollars. Do you think he will run away with the AP or go back to the BS? The reason I bring this up is that the few people that I know that have gotten divorced and are still with their AP' are all wealthy. Lets face it, its one thing to give you wife half(or more) of a fortune-yet still live comfortably. Its another story when the MM gets clobbered and has to settle in some crummy apartment and his lifestyle is severely compromised....

Yes, we all know that true love should know no obstacles, but life is what it is...

TFOY

You hit the real issue right on the head.

February 19, 2013

For some, perhaps....but I think the majority actually love the OW dearly. "Affair bubble" or not.

What inevitably happens is that the MM while caught up in the euphoria of the A underestimates the realities of a full divorce and all of the ramifications involved. Then, perhaps, it becomes flat out almost impossible to leave(or impossible to leave on the terms that suits the OW). She(OW) just runs out of patience..

Hypothetical scenario...Hand the average Joe MM a check for 20 million dollars. Do you think he will run away with the AP or go back to the BS? The reason I bring this up is that the few people that I know that have gotten divorced and are still with their AP' are all wealthy. Lets face it, its one thing to give you wife half(or more) of a fortune-yet still live comfortably. Its another story when the MM gets clobbered and has to settle in some crummy apartment and his lifestyle is severely compromised....

Yes, we all know that true love should know no obstacles, but life is what it is...

TFOY

This probably matters even more for older MM, for whom financial security, pension, etc can be very important. Luckily for us, my H and his X had entirely separate finances, aside from shared interests in a property, and both had well-paying jobs, but even so she tried to go after money she had no right to (bequests, etc) as a way of "punishing" him for daring to leave her. If he'd been closer to the breadline, it would have been much harder for him to,escape!

February 19, 2013

For some, perhaps....but I think the majority actually love the OW dearly. "Affair bubble" or not.

What inevitably happens is that the MM while caught up in the euphoria of the A underestimates the realities of a full divorce and all of the ramifications involved. Then, perhaps, it becomes flat out almost impossible to leave(or impossible to leave on the terms that suits the OW). She(OW) just runs out of patience..

Hypothetical scenario...Hand the average Joe MM a check for 20 million dollars. Do you think he will run away with the AP or go back to the BS? The reason I bring this up is that the few people that I know that have gotten divorced and are still with their AP' are all wealthy. Lets face it, its one thing to give you wife half(or more) of a fortune-yet still live comfortably. Its another story when the MM gets clobbered and has to settle in some crummy apartment and his lifestyle is severely compromised....

Yes, we all know that true love should know no obstacles, but life is what it is...

TFOY

This is probably true right out of a divorce but studies have shown that men have a much better return to previous income level after a divorce than women and a good number will exceed the previous amount as their work years go on. It is actually seen as tied to the pay discrepancy between men and women and the amount of time a woman is out of work.

So yes, a man will usually take an initial drop in wealth after a divorce but within a 5-10 years time will have a much higher chance of regaining said wealth or surpassing it.

I agree, that studies have shown the lower income level, the harder it is to divorce. For whatever reason. Since the economy has struggled there have been less divorces in those years than previously indicating support of this premise.

February 19, 2013

Even men in true exit affairs often don't end up with the affair partner but with another woman they meet after divorce. I've seen it many times both on here and in my of life experiences.

February 19, 2013

For some, perhaps....but I think the majority actually love the OW dearly. "Affair bubble" or not.

What inevitably happens is that the MM while caught up in the euphoria of the A underestimates the realities of a full divorce and all of the ramifications involved. Then, perhaps, it becomes flat out almost impossible to leave(or impossible to leave on the terms that suits the OW). She(OW) just runs out of patience..

Hypothetical scenario...Hand the average Joe MM a check for 20 million dollars. Do you think he will run away with the AP or go back to the BS? The reason I bring this up is that the few people that I know that have gotten divorced and are still with their AP' are all wealthy. Lets face it, its one thing to give you wife half(or more) of a fortune-yet still live comfortably. Its another story when the MM gets clobbered and has to settle in some crummy apartment and his lifestyle is severely compromised....

Yes, we all know that true love should know no obstacles, but life is what it is...

TFOY

i disagree.

I didn't want a dime as I make my own. Didn't want the house, said we could sell it and split amicably. There wasn't a lot to lose as we were rebuilding after a financial drought.

Told him to go be with his OW. Wished them well. He never had to lie to me, I would have let him go.

Told the children, all young adults, that if that is who he chooses, I expected them to treat her with respect.

No one was more confused then I when it turned into the LAST thing he wanted.

Doubt he told her that. In fact, he told her often how important it was to reach his financial goals so he could have a future with her, as if he could BUY his way out of the marriage.

He forgot who he was married to as I could not care less about his money.

In retrospect, I think it is a common MM line to keep the OW from pressuring him into a lasting, long-term relationship. Money, kids, money, kids....we read it all the time here.

Then on DDay, my marriage deserves a second chance.

February 19, 2013

But I think when a MM who used to be a decent person comes to his senses he realizes that what he loved and valued in the affair wasn't real. It was vanity, it was loving the same cheating, lying, bad characteristics he had and it made him feel better to be loved for those. I have never said that he should judge his OW more harshly than himself. I dot think reconciliation had any chance if he doesn't judge himself exactly as harshly.

Well, I suppose I'm not a decent person, but I know that what I loved and valued in the affair IS real. It has nothing to do with vanity or bad characteristics or making me feel better.

It has everything to do with the exact same things that make you fall in love with someone outside of an affair. The way you connect with the person. The way you discover your thoughts and ideas and values mesh. The physical attraction. And, no, it's not a bubble. I understand quite well the flaws and unattractive qualities of my xOW as well as the good things.

There is nothing to for me to judge about the xOW. We were two people who fell in love. It happened in a bad environment, because other people got hurt. I certainly feel guilty and remorseful for the hurt I've caused, but not for the relationship.

February 19, 2013

i disagree.

I didn't want a dime as I make my own. Didn't want the house, said we could sell it and split amicably. There wasn't a lot to lose as we were rebuilding after a financial drought.

Told him to go be with his OW. Wished them well. He never had to lie to me, I would have let him go.

Told the children, all young adults, that if that is who he chooses, I expected them to treat her with respect.

No one was more confused then I when it turned into the LAST thing he wanted.

Doubt he told her that. In fact, he told her often how important it was to reach his financial goals so he could have a future with her, as if he could BUY his way out of the marriage.

He forgot who he was married to as I could not care less about his money.

In retrospect, I think it is a common MM line to keep the OW from pressuring him into a lasting, long-term relationship. Money, kids, money, kids....we read it all the time here.

Then on DDay, my marriage deserves a second chance.

I commend your understanding and compassion, but frankly you are in the 1%,

Most would not see it your way. If it all worked to your satisfaction, then I am certainly happy for you and your family.

TFOY

Edited February 19, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

February 19, 2013

i disagree.

I didn't want a dime as I make my own. Didn't want the house, said we could sell it and split amicably. There wasn't a lot to lose as we were rebuilding after a financial drought.

Told him to go be with his OW. Wished them well. He never had to lie to me, I would have let him go.

Told the children, all young adults, that if that is who he chooses, I expected them to treat her with respect.

No one was more confused then I when it turned into the LAST thing he wanted.

Doubt he told her that. In fact, he told her often how important it was to reach his financial goals so he could have a future with her, as if he could BUY his way out of the marriage.

He forgot who he was married to as I could not care less about his money.

In retrospect, I think it is a common MM line to keep the OW from pressuring him into a lasting, long-term relationship. Money, kids, money, kids....we read it all the time here.

Then on DDay, my marriage deserves a second chance.

With all due respect, I think one of the reasons you read it here all the time is because it's often very true. Your situation may not be, but there are many that are. The financial implications weren't high on my list of priorities, but they were there.

The post you quoted also noted things other than finances. The ramifications of divorce being what I also struggled with. As a father, husband, and businessman in my community I felt I had a very high pedestal to fall from if I left on the day it all came out. People can say it shouldn't matter, and probably it shouldn't, but it does. There were many things to think about as to why I wasn't going to leave, but a lack of love for my other woman was not one of those things.

At the end of your post you say money, kids, money, kids as though they are not valid reasons to remain in a marriage. I wish I had a nickel for every betrayed spouse on here who has listed those same things as reasons they did not turn their cheating spouse away upon discovering their infidelity. If the reason is valid for one, then it is valid for both.

I do want to reiterate that I am not condoning cheating or finding fault with the betrayed. I am trying to share thoughts from my experience and those I've befriended since.

February 19, 2013

This probably matters even more for older MM, for whom financial security, pension, etc can be very important. Luckily for us, my H and his X had entirely separate finances, aside from shared interests in a property, and both had well-paying jobs, but even so she tried to go after money she had no right to (bequests, etc) as a way of "punishing" him for daring to leave her. If he'd been closer to the breadline, it would have been much harder for him to,escape!

xMM was almost at retirement age. His wife had never worked outside the home.

Financial reasons were those that prevented him from leaving. He is still there, retired, on a limited pension . It would never have worked.

Cat.

February 19, 2013

There are a lot of nice discussions going on in this thread. It's refreshing. I had this discussion with mine and he made it clear that I was definitely worthy and I felt the same about him. There was a point beforehand when I felt unworthy, but that was simply my own issue and how I was feeling about myself at the time. That's no longer the case I'm happy to say!

Thanks to all of you who are finding the courage to speak your truth in this thread. It shows that sometimes people meet at a time in life that isn't the most ideal. They have to make choices that are right for them based on what they feel is important.

February 19, 2013

I think the implication is: if the AP was so intensely loved and wanted than there would be no reason to cheat. MM/MW would simply inform spouse, divorce, and the new coupling would take place.

Instead of this happening, the AP is oft kept hidden, found less important than financial investments, child-rearing obligations, ties to in-law, etc ____ (fill in one of the myriad of excuses) and THAT is claimed to be why divorce and monogamy is not sought. But healthy people understand: you pursue that which is most important to you. If the excuses given were SO important no risk taking behavior would happen to begin with. If the love was so strong it would be priority. The only consistency to be found between the extremes is selfishness. Ie: I want it all simultaneously so I won't commit to any singular thing and because being honest would deny me all I want, I'll defraud everyone!

The fact is affairs rarely end up in divorce, rarer still does the divorced AP marry the other, rarer even more does that marriage last. If there was so much intense love and respect in the air the stats simply wouldn't be so dismal.

The reality of most lives is that the combination of all things you've mentioned can take precedence over love. There comes a point in life when one realizes love does not conquer all. It was not the lesser measure of the other woman that held me home, it was the risk in walking away and losing what was familiar and comfortable with no guarantee the relationship with her would work. In no way does that diminish the feelings I had for her. It makes me incredibly selfish and cowardly.

As far as statistics on relationships past affairs, I believe many people look at it as only black or white. I am now changing the dynamic of the relationship with my other woman. We were able to share incredible feelings under the stress of an affair, and now we're learning to translate that into everyday life. I don't know if it will work, but it is something I realized I needed to try. In essence. we are ending one relationship and starting another. The feelings are not in question, but the transition to a new relationship may not be smooth or successful. It is not as clear cut (black and white) as many would like to believe it is.

February 19, 2013

With all due respect, I think one of the reasons you read it here all the time is because it's often very true. Your situation may not be, but there are many that are. The financial implications weren't high on my list of priorities, but they were there.

The post you quoted also noted things other than finances. The ramifications of divorce being what I also struggled with. As a father, husband, and businessman in my community I felt I had a very high pedestal to fall from if I left on the day it all came out. People can say it shouldn't matter, and probably it shouldn't, but it does. There were many things to think about as to why I wasn't going to leave, but a lack of love for my other woman was not one of those things.

At the end of your post you say money, kids, money, kids as though they are not valid reasons to remain in a marriage. I wish I had a nickel for every betrayed spouse on here who has listed those same things as reasons they did not turn their cheating spouse away upon discovering their infidelity. If the reason is valid for one, then it is valid for both.

I do want to reiterate that I am not condoning cheating or finding fault with the betrayed. I am trying to share thoughts from my experience and those I've befriended since.

ok, why didn't you honestly declare your feeling for another and separate?

even my grown children asked him that?

and at DDay, sooo many people already knew, I was, frankly the last to suspect.

he fell pretty far from that pedestal in our community too. can't unring that bell, unfortunately.

My children and I never deserved that deception.

February 19, 2013

ok, why didn't you honestly declare your feeling for another and separate?

even my grown children asked him that?

and at DDay, sooo many people already knew, I was, frankly the last to suspect.

he fell pretty far from that pedestal in our community too. can't unring that bell, unfortunately.

My children and I never deserved that deception.

You're preaching to the choir Spark. I was a coward and I was selfish. I rang far too many bells I couldn't unring. No, you did not deserve that deception and neither did my family.

I hope you'll re-read my post because it was not meant to set aside what you said. It was meant to give you the perspective of someone objective, to your situation, who lived it.

February 19, 2013

For some, perhaps....but I think the majority actually love the OW dearly. "Affair bubble" or not.

What inevitably happens is that the MM while caught up in the euphoria of the A underestimates the realities of a full divorce and all of the ramifications involved. Then, perhaps, it becomes flat out almost impossible to leave(or impossible to leave on the terms that suits the OW). She(OW) just runs out of patience..

Hypothetical scenario...Hand the average Joe MM a check for 20 million dollars. Do you think he will run away with the AP or go back to the BS? The reason I bring this up is that the few people that I know that have gotten divorced and are still with their AP' are all wealthy. Lets face it, its one thing to give you wife half(or more) of a fortune-yet still live comfortably. Its another story when the MM gets clobbered and has to settle in some crummy apartment and his lifestyle is severely compromised....

Yes, we all know that true love should know no obstacles, but life is what it is...

TFOY

We are wealthy.

Finances were not an issue in the affair.

He still did not leave for her.

February 19, 2013

Even men in true exit affairs often don't end up with the affair partner but with another woman they meet after divorce. I've seen it many times both on here and in my of life experiences.

Same here.

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Do you think the majority of MM in affairs will EVER feel their OW is 100% worthy?

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