I need some shock therapy

[Senseless]

I am having a tough time dealing with my attitude toward love relationships with females.

 

Like most heterosexual males, I love the company of women. I loved the company of two of them enough to marry them (not at the same time). I’m about to be divorced from number two. I probably should not have married either of them; Wife #1 - mostly, because I was too immature and too needy, Wife #2 - because, well I’m not sure, that’s why I’m posting this.

 

After I divorced my first wife, I remained single for five years. During that time I did a lot of soul searching and did a lot of growing up. I worked hard to become a secure and confident person, in my own right, for the first time in my life. And, although I regress at times, I am still happy and content with most all aspects of my life. I have the luxury of close friends and family that I love and receive love from. I have a good life!

 

So, “What’s the problem?”.

 

Well, now I am TOO CONFIDENT, TOO SECURE and NOT NEEDY ENOUGH. This attitude, I’m afraid, has led to the demise of my second marriage. We have had a good marriage. I think she is a great person. I love and care for her as much as I have loved and cared for anybody, Ever!

 

What’s bothering the hell out of me is that, even as I write this, it seems I could care less that I am facing loosing everything that she and I have enjoyed and achieved, emotionally and physically, over the span of our four year marriage.

 

Why am I not devastated?

 

Why am I not pissed off?

 

Why don’t I hate her?

 

Where is my sense of loss?

 

Am I in denial?

 

Can anyone help?

[Tony T]

YOU ASK: "Why am I not devastated?

 

Why am I not pissed off?

 

Why don't I hate her?

 

Where is my sense of loss?

 

Am I in denial?"

 

There are many possible reasons.

 

1. You may have some sort of delayed reaction here. Even for the most psychologically together people, a divorce is a serious loss and a hurtful event.

 

2. There is no rational reason to be pissed off. You may have done some serious work on yourself, as you say, and have actually become more sane than most people. When something doesn't work out...there's really no reason to be pissed off. Although anger is one of the stages in the grief process, either you have bypassed it, or you just haven't started the grief process.

 

3. You said you have had a good marriage. Yet, it is ending. I think you are very much part of the evolutionary process of marriages, where instead of being "until death do we part" they are more or less until one of the parties wants to end it. People nowadays aren't into this forever stuff quite as much. Oh, yes, in the daze of romance it sounds really great in the beginning, but I think you can have an excellent marriage and then have it end.

 

I have some excellent meals that end, I see some excellent movies that end, etc. Marriage is changing...just like people change. Maybe marriage isn't really meant to be forever. Maybe it's meant to last just long enough to get the kids out of high school. If there are no kids, maybe it's just meant to last until one of the parties decides it's over. Hey, you said it was good. You got some enjoyment out of it. You seem to face reality really well. Maybe you lose a few bucks. You'll lose it when you die anyway, so why not put a few of them in your ex's purse and send her on her way.

 

4. There's no rational reason to hate your latest wife. You had a good marriage. She wants to go. She's been honest with you. She can't help her feelings. She really hasn't done anything you should hate her for.

 

5. I do think you are putting off the grief process. You will feel a sense of loss. You're already showing the signs of guilt for being too confident, too secure and not needy enough.

 

There's a big differents between sick, irrational and pathological confidence, insecurity and neediness and that which is the usual component of romantic love and being human.

 

It is just part of romance to be vulnerable, to feel a need for someone else (even if you have to fake it, people need to feel needed). Most women would probably not understand a guy as together as you. When you're dealing in an insane world, someone who seems as together as you doesn't really fit it. It is not insane to have certain normal, healthy human feelings and normal, healthy levels. Being too anything...such as being too secure, too confident...is probably not great...sounds great...but not great.

 

Paulie, a gentleman who posts here often, sees a therapist who suggested to him he should: "Fake it to make it." Now, I'm not saying to be dishonest here, but you really have to cave in to some of this romantic stuff to get along in a genuine relationship. I am pretty confident and secure myself, but if I were with a woman who was confident and secure to a great extent and did not make me feel she needed be or felt a great connection to me in some way, I'm not so sure that would appeal to me. Maybe, if you really feel so confident, you should fake some neediness, fake some vulnerability. Fake it to make it!!!

 

Women love a man, in some part, because they feel the man needs them. That's an important feeling they need to have. Yes, you had a good marriage, but women are feeling creatures and they have these sometimes undiscernable and oft uncommunicated emotional needs that must be met. That's why men are from mars and women are from venus. You didn't meet certain of your wife's emotional needs and that's OK, it's not your fault. You probably didn't know. Sometimes we need to go from one extreme to the other before we can bounce to the middle. Hey, all this is an educational process in the classroom of life. I think you are doing very well and I give you an B-plus...you're getting damned close to being an A student.

 

6. You may have achieved Nirvana, the highest state of enlightenment, where love is concerned. When you really, truly deeply love someone in the most healthy way, you aren't affected as much when the person leaves. You understand that the love you have for them is within you and will remain there. Perfect love does not know or show all the ugly stuff that normally accompanies a divorce. You are showing the greatest possible love by rationally letting this woman go, move on, grow, prosper, etc. That is the most pure love you could ever have.

 

You will miss her. The fact that you aren't so upset may be underscoring her reasons for leaving. She may interpret your lack of emotion as that you never cared. This woman wants to be married to a human being, not an automaton. Maybe you ought to print this post out and show it to her.

 

Maybe you really want her back. You did have a good marriage. She did love you. You loved her. She just wasn't feeling loved because you were trying to be too together, Mr. Macho cool, etc. She wanted to be married to a normal human being who displayed feelings, vulnerabilities...someone not so perfect. Maybe you can become that person. Perhaps you can move to the middle. You have to be commended for trying to improve yourself. You seem open minded enough to want to improve even more. I think you would be one hell of a catch for a woman. I don't think your latest lady would leave you if she thought you could back off of some of your confidence, security, etc. to give her the kind of love she really needs.

 

So maybe you're not in denial of the loss of your marriage. Perhaps you are more in denial of your humanity, your own vulnerabilities. Only robots and Star Trek's Mr. Spock are without those. So I hope you will take inventory of yourself. You have the makings for an incredible human being. Since there are no openings on the Starship Enterprise, it might be to your advantage to become slightly more human and enjoy the great love there is out there in this human world.

 

I leave you a quote from Mr. Spock...his last words from aboard the Enterprise:

 

"I pay a price from human feelings free...perhaps in me you see your destiny."

 

That would be very sad.

[Senseless]

Wow! Thanks for the very detailed response Tony. It is very helpful and I appreciate you taking the time to do this. I don’t know what your day job is, but I hope it involves helping people. You have already helped me tremendously.

 

You brought up many great points in your post. I would like to expound a little further on a couple of them.

 

As far as faking it...

 

The truth is, I have faked my way through most of my life. My problem with faking is that I can’t separate it from just plain old lying! It makes me sick to my stomach to think about doing something I don’t really want to do, being someone I don’t really want to be, feeling something that I don’t feel, or otherwise acting like someone that I am not. If I were into all that stuff, I would move to Hollywood and live with the truly Rich and Fake. Unfortunately, the real me is practical, logical and, well, Spockish!...Boring, I know...but, I just can’t be relied upon to fill the empty spaces in other peoples lives. I’m just not a good faker! Do you know any good books on faking?

 

I’m beginning to think that maybe I was not cut out for female companionship, at least not the usual, normal kind that most of the rest of the world’s men enjoy. As I said before, I have family and friends that I love and care for immensely and they know it and I receive much love from them in return. If that is all I had for the rest of my life - I would be happy and fulfilled. But friends and family do not require the kind of maintenance that a long-term romantic love relationship requires.

 

You know, Mother Nature gave us this built-in chemical attraction for each other. And after it runs it’s course - THEN WHAT? Why can’t we just reverse the order of events? Why can’t it be difficult to get a long and have our needs met at first - THEN have an explosion of chemical energy that would knock your socks off. Instead, we get our paycheck before we actually do the work. And too many people these days are willing to take the money and run. There seems to be such little concern for investing in the future emotionally and otherwise.

 

I guess the bottom line is - I just don’t know how to live and prosper in this day and time when it comes to romantic love relationships. I don’t NEED a romantic love partner in my life in order to feel happy and whole. I think this is a major reason why my second marriage is failing, because I did not ACT NEEDY!. My basic needs in life are being met and always will be met. I have made peace with my maker and fear not what will happen tomorrow. It’s my WANTS and DESIRES that are screwing things up.

[Tony T]

Well, the right lady, I suppose, would not require so much. Perhaps you will bump into someone who is as evolved as you are. Your attitude is actually quite good. The truth is that if we are emotionally health, rational and mature, we should be extremely happy with ourselves. I'm sure there are some very low maintenance ladies out there who don't need constant attention, assurance, proof of love, etc., that would make excellent companions for you.

 

Frankly, you are in the best of all places. You can find a partner and be with them because you have the desire, and not the need. In my book, I would rather have a lady by my side who is there because she WANTS to be there, not because she NEEDS to be there. However, out in the world there are many, many insecure people who just have to be needed...I suppose that's a basic human thing. They feel a lot more secure in a relationship where they are needed.

 

You do have to be yourself. If you don't want to fake it, you can certainly have lots of fun throughout your life enjoying female companionship. But I strongly recommend that you think long and hard before you get married again. Don't marry anyone unless you have thoroughly discussed your psychological make-up and philosophy with them. Make sure they understand you beyond doubt.

 

There is no reason you need to get married if you don't meet someone you can't live without. It seems you can pretty much live without anybody. Everybody is not meant to be married. It sounds like you don't need another person to be fulfilled.

 

My guess is that one day, when you absolutely least expect it, you will be hit hard by the love bug. When that happens, rather than screw things up for yourself stop by here and get some advice. You are quite right about the paycheck...in love, it comes right up front. And you know what happens in the business world when people are paid in advance...they slack off in performing the task at hand. A great analogy.

 

Hang in there and be proud of where you are in your growth. But don't rush into the marriage thing too quickly again. Just wait for the right person. You'll find her.

[Deejette]

Basically it comes down to the disconnect between the way men love and the way women want to be loved. Women want to be loved the way they show love: Tender love notes, surprise romantic treats, all special dates (anniversaries, birthday) remembered with love-tokens, lots of affection, assurances and reassurances of their beauty, and thoughtful little gestures.

 

Some of these things seem corny and awkward to guys because they don't need them and therefore cannot relate to them. When a woman behaves towards a man in the way she would like to be loved, like calling him often, leaving love notes, buying him tokens of her affection, he will often feel hemmed in by this blizzard of attention. He will back off, leaving her puzzled and hurt.

 

That is why communication up front about what makes us feel loved is important in a marriage and cannot be left up to chance or mind-reading. Otherwise, the break-up occurs and neither party is really clear on why.

 

Well, the right lady, I suppose, would not require so much. Perhaps you will bump into someone who is as evolved as you are. Your attitude is actually quite good. The truth is that if we are emotionally health, rational and mature, we should be extremely happy with ourselves. I'm sure there are some very low maintenance ladies out there who don't need constant attention, assurance, proof of love, etc., that would make excellent companions for you. Frankly, you are in the best of all places. You can find a partner and be with them because you have the desire, and not the need. In my book, I would rather have a lady by my side who is there because she WANTS to be there, not because she NEEDS to be there. However, out in the world there are many, many insecure people who just have to be needed...I suppose that's a basic human thing. They feel a lot more secure in a relationship where they are needed. You do have to be yourself. If you don't want to fake it, you can certainly have lots of fun throughout your life enjoying female companionship. But I strongly recommend that you think long and hard before you get married again. Don't marry anyone unless you have thoroughly discussed your psychological make-up and philosophy with them. Make sure they understand you beyond doubt. There is no reason you need to get married if you don't meet someone you can't live without. It seems you can pretty much live without anybody. Everybody is not meant to be married. It sounds like you don't need another person to be fulfilled.

 

My guess is that one day, when you absolutely least expect it, you will be hit hard by the love bug. When that happens, rather than screw things up for yourself stop by here and get some advice. You are quite right about the paycheck...in love, it comes right up front. And you know what happens in the business world when people are paid in advance...they slack off in performing the task at hand. A great analogy. Hang in there and be proud of where you are in your growth. But don't rush into the marriage thing too quickly again. Just wait for the right person. You'll find her.

[Senseless]

Deejette, thank you for your comments.

 

I have no problems understanding that there are some major differences between what men and women expect from each other, as well as, how and how often they expect it to be delivered.

 

The biggest problem I can see between the sexes today is how couples are handling things when they are dissatisfied with their relationships. There are way too many people (men and women) that prefer to bail out (or worse) rather than trying to understand themselves and each other.

 

I'm sorry to be so negative. I have a bad attitude right now. Yuk!

 

Thanks again for responding.

[Nic]

YOU WROTE:

The biggest problem I can see between the sexes today is how couples are handling things when they are dissatisfied with their relationships. There are way too many people (men and women) that prefer to bail out (or worse) rather than trying to understand themselves and each other.

i totally agree with that. communication goes a long way in trying to handle problems in a relationship or within themselves. i don't know if it's because they feel too insecure with themselves or they are scared, but i think it's hardly fair on a relationship to just bail out without trying to understand the problem. i'd only bail out of a relationship if we tried hard to understand the problem, but it got to the point where it just wouldn't work anyway. i think a lot of people are selling themselves (and their poor partners) short by running from problems. especially when you can't say that the problem won't be fixed. i find this so, so, so, frustrating and somewhat weak. it's happened to me and it pisses me off!!!!

 

by the way, i don't think that comment was negative, i think it's making a really good point. it's just a shame that not all people see it that way and could be going a long way in a relationship by understanding and trying to strike a balance. well, at least trying anyway. it's really not that hard to try.