promises Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'm going to ask a loaded question. Marriage implies one man and one woman in sexual unison and forsaking all others forever. When single, this is obviously not the case unless you remain celibate until marriage. To ask those married *man or woman* to remain faithful forever - is that truly realistic? Ok, ok- yes. Many people make this happen and believe in this completely. Yet, I question if it's truly natural to do this. Nature versus nurture, so to speak. What are your thoughts on fidelity? Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'm going to ask a loaded question. Marriage implies one man and one woman in sexual unison and forsaking all others forever. When single, this is obviously not the case unless you remain celibate until marriage. To ask those married *man or woman* to remain faithful forever - is that truly realistic? Ok, ok- yes. Many people make this happen and believe in this completely. Yet, I question if it's truly natural to do this. Nature versus nurture, so to speak. What are your thoughts on fidelity? I have manged, throughout my life, to have satisfying sexual relationships - from GF's, to live in GF's, to my now xWW and my current W. I have never felt bored or routine. My first M was knocking on 15 years - so maybe I wasn't M long enough. But the sex life was fine by me. Do I feel attracted to others? Sure I do. Will I act on it - I doubt it. I have had my fair share of lovers - I have nothing else really to prove. A woman offering her body is just that. I want more - mind, heart, soul ...and I have that. With my partner. And in the past, I had it with my previous partners. What more could I ask for? Sorry...I guess I'm at the point now where different set of boobs just isn't that enticing. (I'll still look though ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I have manged, throughout my life, to have satisfying sexual relationships - from GF's, to live in GF's, to my now xWW and my current W. I have never felt bored or routine. My first M was knocking on 15 years - so maybe I wasn't M long enough. But the sex life was fine by me. Do I feel attracted to others? Sure I do. Will I act on it - I doubt it. I have had my fair share of lovers - I have nothing else really to prove. A woman offering her body is just that. I want more - mind, heart, soul ...and I have that. With my partner. And in the past, I had it with my previous partners. What more could I ask for? Sorry...I guess I'm at the point now where different set of boobs just isn't that enticing. (I'll still look though ) but, in a sense you've proven that ONE is not enough. You've had a 'few'. So, even though when in a LTR, you are faithful, you haven't been in just one. So, fidelity, yes. One woman forever, no. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'm going to ask a loaded question. Marriage implies one man and one woman in sexual unison and forsaking all others forever. When single, this is obviously not the case unless you remain celibate until marriage. To ask those married *man or woman* to remain faithful forever - is that truly realistic? Ok, ok- yes. Many people make this happen and believe in this completely. Yet, I question if it's truly natural to do this. Nature versus nurture, so to speak. What are your thoughts on fidelity? Marriage doesn't have to mean that. Marriage means what the people say it mean. Some people, I know woinlove for example, is in a marriage where they've openly negotiated openness. Other people never get married but still want monogamy. Some places have plural marriages or people engage in sister wife scenarios, swinging etc. I think some people are more inclined to be monogamous than others. I do believe that variation exists and you should date with that in mind and be upfront. When single I do not go out having sex with multiple men. In fact...I inadvertently become celibate when single, as for me, I feel very odd about sleeping around. So I know I am probably the naturally monogamous type and forsaking all others isn't a foreign concept to me and won't make me feel chained down...as I am not married now and can technically sleep with whomever I please, yet I don't, because I don't want to. I don't think it's "naturalnes" matter, so much so that, people need to be open and honest and create a relationship style that works for them. If you don't believe in monogamy, you are not required to be monogamous. But the problem is the lying, deceit and pretense that is infidelity. Infidelity doesn't only hurt because of outside sex but the lies and betrayal. People who are non-monogamous can also experience infidelity...i.e. their partner hiding any sexual/emotional connections from them.I think that is the hard part for many -the betrayal. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
stevie_23 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 It’s natural depending on who you are. For some people, being with just one person for the rest of their lives is simply the ONLY way. There ARE no other options. You don’t ever get divorced either. You’re married, FOREVER no matter what. Some are fairly happy this way and make the most of things and really DO love their spouse dearly forever, even though the spark faded long ago. My grandparents were these types of people. Married in their late teens, still together into their 80s when they died. I find it beautiful. But not realistic or natural for many people. It seems to not be a HAPPY way for ME personally to live either. I used to think that once you found the right person, you could become one of those people, who truly were content to be with that one person forever. But now I’m not so sure, and I think it depends how strong your sense of care and companionship for the other person is, but much more so, how strong your sense of obligation, duty, responsibility and discipline is. That’s what I think in terms of staying in a marriage and remaining faithful entirely to that particular person for your whole life. Some people are the absolute opposite of the above types and don’t even find it natural to be monogamous when they’re still in the honeymoon phase of a marriage or relationship. This is something I myself have never understood, though I DO now understood how it is hard to keep yourself from developing feelings for an outside party once that spark does wear off. Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 All of our socialized behavior is far from natural. then what is 'natural'? Link to post Share on other sites
stevie_23 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Living in caves, killing our food, wearing no clothes, eating off the land? lol Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Living in caves, killing our food, wearing no clothes, eating off the land? lol we live in 'sheltered homes', someone else kills our food, clothes are fashion and mostly odd, and organic. Link to post Share on other sites
stevie_23 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yes indeedy. I actually WOULD feel rather “natural” being naked a lot of the time. I don’t feel embarrassed by nudity and if everyone was naked, I’d feel fine being naked too. But I do NOT want to kill my own food. I’d never eat then. Even vegetables apparently scream when picked. Ugh. *shudder* lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yes indeedy. I actually WOULD feel rather “natural” being naked a lot of the time. I don’t feel embarrassed by nudity and if everyone was naked, I’d feel fine being naked too. But I do NOT want to kill my own food. I’d never eat then. Even vegetables apparently scream when picked. Ugh. *shudder* lol. Ahhhh! NO! I didn't need to know that about veggies. I love veggies. Link to post Share on other sites
stevie_23 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 LMAO! Me too. I’m not a vegetarian (my partner is) but I don’t eat much meat. I live in partial denial mode in order to eat the meat that I do, but if I had to kill my chickens or even fish, and yeah, plucking veggies from the ground or trees, apparently they feel it and scream inaudibly to us…I’d never eat anything but grains. And chocolate of course. Lol. Except it’d have to be dark chocolate (which I don’t care for) because mild chocolate comes from cows, and I don’t know how to milk a cow, lest I get squirted in the face. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'm going to ask a loaded question. Marriage implies one man and one woman in sexual unison and forsaking all others forever. When single, this is obviously not the case unless you remain celibate until marriage. To ask those married *man or woman* to remain faithful forever - is that truly realistic? Ok, ok- yes. Many people make this happen and believe in this completely. Yet, I question if it's truly natural to do this. Nature versus nurture, so to speak. What are your thoughts on fidelity? Some people are perfectly happy with monogamy. Others need to be promiscuous. There's no one more jealous and possessive than a philanderer. Paradoxically those that love promiscuity demand monogamy. So we are blessed with ambivalence. Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 Some people are perfectly happy with monogamy. Others need to be promiscuous. There's no one more jealous and possessive than a philanderer. Paradoxically those that love promiscuity demand monogamy. So we are blessed with ambivalence. that is the most confusing statement I have ever read. Link to post Share on other sites
Eggplant Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I need 2 decades of loyalty to raise family. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tenacity Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 From a biological perspective, no, it's not "natural" for human beings to be monogamous. That is not how humans were designed. Even in the Bible, polygamy was acknowledged. And to think... now many of us live to be in our 70's and 80's, unlike then, when to achieve age 30 was a milestone. How much harder must it be now? However, our society rules is what we are trying to adhere to. Is it a complete discrepancy? Yes. But it is what it is. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Some people are perfectly happy with monogamy. Others need to be promiscuous. There's no one more jealous and possessive than a philanderer. Paradoxically those that love promiscuity demand monogamy. So we are blessed with ambivalence. I have to say many of the cheating men I know are this way. They also believe it is "natural" for men to have many women but abhorrent for a woman to have many men. They rationalize their own cheating behavior as a product of nature but for a woman to do the same, she has committed the worst and most unnatural atrocity . Many are of the idea that they should be allowed to have a non-monogamous relationship while their partner is exclusive with them. My AP felt this way. He never demanded I not see others, as he knew it would be ridiculous to say this out loud, but he made no bones about being upset and acted wronged if he even felt I was interested in another. He was very possessive and jealous; yet, he was supposed to have two women and I should have been fine with it. I'm sure if I agreed that he could have me and anyone else he would, but would NEVER grant me the same. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Eggplant Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 There's no one more jealous and possessive than a philanderer. Cheaters are jealous and suspicious because they naturally assume that you think as they do. My xMM (didn't know was MM) got paranoid when I went on a girls-only vacation with friends. Red flag # 3902. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I honestly feel that this is part of xMM's reaching out to me, he doesn't want me to get over him and move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 that is the most confusing statement I have ever read. It is supposed to be confusing. Have you seen the devastation of an OW that has a d-day with an OOW. Link to post Share on other sites
Eggplant Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I honestly feel that this is part of xMM's reaching out to me, he doesn't want me to get over him and move on. That would hurt his ego, which is what he truly loves. Edited February 20, 2013 by Eggplant Link to post Share on other sites
Author promises Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 It is supposed to be confusing. Have you seen the devastation of an OW that has a d-day with an OOW. Wow. And, if the OOW has an OM... stop the presses Again, why marry? Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Wow. And, if the OOW has an OM... stop the presses Again, why marry? Good question. I do think some folks are aware of their tendencies that are not monogamous, yet feel socially pressured into marriage OR don't take the time to be honest about their preferences and marry someone who feels as they do or are selfish people who want to have a wife or husband at home for comfort and security but want to cake eat and still have others, but would never agree to an open M, because they don't want their spouses doing the same. So they have secret affairs, as that way, only they are out and about with others. Like a friend of mine who claimed he wanted to marry his gf (now ex). They were together 3 years and he cheated on her the entire time but also claimed he loved her and wanted to marry...yet he also would lament about not understanding how any man could get married. He is very emotionally immature and inauthentic and had he married...he would have continued cheating, and sadly, I think he will eventually marry and cheat. People like him indeed should NOT marry...but they do for all or some of the reasons previously mentioned. For him, it was definitely loving that his gf loved him, was there for him, she was a virgin so he knew she wasn't out cheating on him and he wanted to cake eat. He wanted to have a home base with a lover and caregiver that he could rely on then all kinds of other women in the streets. He wanted the perks of a husband as well as the perks of a bachelor. Then some folks get caught up in affairs for less premeditated reasons, so it isn't that they should have never married, but perhaps they lacked the tools to make their marriages work or they faltered. Edited February 20, 2013 by MissBee 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Wow. And, if the OOW has an OM... stop the presses Again, why marry? It does not matter whether you are married or not. Humans are ambivalent. They crave promiscuity, but also want fidelity. As I said the most liberal OW that does not believe in monogamy (hence her reason for the EMR with a married man) will be devastated by the existence of OOW. There is no one more vigilant regarding cheating than a philanderer. And if the wife of a philanderer cheats the philanderer will be deeply hurt. As you said, it is confusing. Link to post Share on other sites
Catplates Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 that is the most confusing statement I have ever read. Tis true. A long life of experience tells me so. Link to post Share on other sites
waterwoman Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Smallpox is natural, it is unnatural for the majority of children to survive past the age of 2. It is natural to pluck your eyebrows or shave your legs. So What? Modern humans are far from natural. It's a choice to stay monogamous, you can either do it or not, and if you do decide to do it you stick at it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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