How to Let Go?

[GorillaTheater]

Alright - so the text battle continues today... I'm not one to post specific details to conversation - usually just the messages that communicated but I get this text from her:

"Our conversations over the last day (and really most of them recently) have felt like you venting and tearing me down (and by extension, tearing down where the kids are as well)... there's nothing positive in them. I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish with them other than it feels like you need me to hear what's on your mind and that there is some price I need to pay."

 

I've spoke with her on the phone twice over the weekend - once to have my name removed from a credit card she took in our agreement and the other time to ask that she complete an application for the place she's staying so I can have my name removed from the lease. She was not optimistic in either case that she would be successful as her credit score is low and felt she wouldn't get approved for the lease on her own nor would she be able to open a credit card in her name and transfer the balance (BOA wouldn't do primary account name change until divorce is final in several months). I expressed my dissatisfaction at her willingness to put in the effort to do her part to sever our connections - the ramifications of which only impact me in a negative way. Told her I didn't choose any of this and said it wasn't fair to me - clearly I was angry but did not raise my voice or get nasty. Again - over the phone, not in the presence of kids.

 

So I replied to her texts with 2 messages and 2 questions:

 

"Do you feel that I'm responsible for how the kids are feeling?"

 

"And do you feel that I'm trying to 'make you pay'?"

 

Her response:

 

"No, on both points. Text is not clear - I will call you tonight."

 

The point I'm trying to make with her is that the kids are struggling more than I thought - and from what they tell me are more comfortable discussing their concerns more with me than with her. Her response seems to me - that she's blaming me for how they feel (though her response denies that). I've believed (with me, the kids, her family, her friends) that she doesn't want to own up to the choice she has made. I know enough to know that she's out of the marriage - the true reason why no longer burns in me as (1) doesn't change outcome and (2) probably only cause more pain. Obviously kids still seek something more substantial and older one is tired of the run around.

 

I've been strong supporter of NC - and have done well with minimal interaction. But this onslaught of texting has got the wheels in my brain spinning again. The sense of ambivalence feels like it's tearing at me today - sad/hurt and angry. My mind concludes that she's burying her head in the sand regarding the fallout sustained by the kids - and blaming me when she see's them genuinely hurting. I've mentioned that how they are with me seems to be greatly different than how they are with her. Suggested she approach them rather than just wait for them to bring it up with her.

 

Don't even engage in these discussions with her. You're just feeding the hornet's nest between your ears.

 

Acceptable topics of discussion: kids and finances.

 

Unacceptable topics of discussions: everything else.

 

Disengage, man. Observe the situation from 50,000 feet.

[NYWoman]

Why not tell them the truth? She is already blame shifting you for her deteriorating environment between her and the kids.

 

What do you care?

 

And yes she is a terrible mom to put them through this

[TailSpin75]

Have thought about this a lot today. All I can do - is my best to maintain my relationship with the children. I am not responsible for her relationship with them - even it I see it crashing. I'll continue to encourage them to take their questions to her or their therapist.

[TailSpin75]

I sent her an email yesterday outlining the concerns I have regarding the children and their struggle they are enduring. Merely pointed out some of the bitterness I discovered they are harboring for her and suggested she breech the subject with them rather than only discuss when they come to her. I received a 'thank you' response.

 

I was kind of surprised at how 'worked up' I got yesterday after so much communication with her the night before and early yesterday. Even today - there's an emotional hangover from our previous encounters. Emotions are intense and distracting - as they were many weeks ago. I suppose I thought I was past this point but the interaction with her triggered old thinking habits.

[MsOptimist]

I sent her an email yesterday outlining the concerns I have regarding the children and their struggle they are enduring. Merely pointed out some of the bitterness I discovered they are harboring for her and suggested she breech the subject with them rather than only discuss when they come to her. I received a 'thank you' response.

 

I was kind of surprised at how 'worked up' I got yesterday after so much communication with her the night before and early yesterday. Even today - there's an emotional hangover from our previous encounters. Emotions are intense and distracting - as they were many weeks ago. I suppose I thought I was past this point but the interaction with her triggered old thinking habits.

 

This is exactly what happens to me when I find myself engaging in contact. I know very well those text and email battles!

 

I think you're handling everything well so far - there's no manual that tells us what to do and you know your family better than anyone else. I understand your hesitance to tell your kids about her affair.

[TailSpin75]

Thanks MsOptimist - I feel that I had been heading on the right track and the past couple of days of interactions really felt (feels) like a set back. I do trust that it will pass and I will regain perspective - but it's amazing to me how that interaction really brought me back to an anxious state.

 

I do agree that the children should know the truth - but to be honest she's not given me a straight answer - and it's a question I stopped pursuing awhile ago now. I know enough to know it's over. I take comfort that in time they will know the truth and there are still so many things that need to settle into place for the new normal to really take hold for them. In the mean time I will do my best for them (and myself) and continue to take them to counselling appointments.

[TailSpin75]

So I nearly got sucked back into email conversation again last night. Old habits die hard - and I believe I was driven to see eye to eye with STBX. She sent message in the evening - which initially set me off. (She had EA - lied about being happy in marriage until she was caught, then made choice to be with OM. This... her 'reason' for ending marriage is something she's never 'owned' - vague explanation to me and blow off to kids.) Her email last night asked if I was going to take some responsibility for my part at end of marriage - and that she was willing to go to counselling to discuss her 'issues' with me in marriage. WTF?

 

I typed up a response that informed her that she had it backwards. Counselling works before marriage ends - not after investing time, energy, effort with someone else. Marriage is over and I have no concerns with what her 'issues' with me were. Reminded her that I repeatedly attempted to speak with her during the marriage and told her she seemed 'checked out' at times to which was adamant that things were great. How could I calibrate to you if issues/concerns were never raised?

 

Just before I sent the response - it hit me (thank God) - this interaction does not matter. I concluded she is in denial about her 'choices' - downplaying the effects of the kids and seems to be 'justifying' her choice to me (or herself) and placing the blame on me. F - that. So I took a more appropriate response - I simply filed the email in a folder I created for her (called 'The Devil') and turned the computer off.

 

No going to lie though - I stewed about it most of the evening. But like all emotions during this process - the intensity slowly diminished.

[2.50 a gallon]

TS75

 

Good for you.

 

Who needs more blame shifting?

[MsOptimist]

Great that you had a lightbulb moment before engaging further! There have been times that I've gotten sucked back into contact and it only makes me stew further as well.

 

My stbxh does the same thing - any conversation we have he makes sure to bring up that I was at fault and I think that's such a crappy thing to do. I fully admit that we both played a part in how our marriage played out over the years, but it is squarely on his shoulders that we are in our current position.

[TailSpin75]

So... I get a text from STBX late yesterday afternoon stating that she would "like me to consider joining in the kids counselling sessions".

 

Kids have been in counselling for a couple of months. I have not attended any of their sessions but have discussed "the situation" with them regularly - checking in on where they're at in this process. Like me, they are grieving the loss of the family as they knew it and the old life - I do my best to encourage them to talk it out and my oldest (13) does quite a bit of journalling. I describe a future to them which is a 'new' normal and remind them that they have friends with divorced parents who live happy lives. Also point out that this is a transition period and will be the most difficult time - that 'life' will settle into place as we continue to move forward.

 

Naturally - they question why this is happening and they often express (when with me) their resistance to this change. They are aware that this was STBXW choice (she actually told them on her own before telling me) - and they are aware that during that 2-month 'limbo' period that I tried to 'save' the marriage. From their perspective - all was normal - not even turbulent. My oldest has asked how can everything be great one week - then ending the next.

 

STBX has also offered to disclose the 'concerns' she had in the marriage with me through counselling. Despite (during the marriage) my repeated attempts to talk with her - she was adamant that she was happy and that life was good. My intuition led me to suspect she was drifting, but she never engaged my inquiry. As a good husband - I didn't want to force the issue, to make my insecurities hers, and to give her space - hindsight shows me I took on the role of a doormat. She was present enough in the marriage that I didn't suspect she had drifted that far. During this time (over a year) she started and maintained EA - during limbo was insistent no PA but that she had 'strong feelings' for OM. So the way I see it, she made a choice to be with OM. My reply (couple of days ago) regarding her 'concerns' in the marriage is that none of that matters now - the time to discuss those concerns is before the marriage ends not after - before she wandered outside the marriage not after escaping it.

 

So she and I do not see eye to eye in how to address the 'why' question that the children are persistent with. I encourage them to ask their mother or therapist and she continues to give them the same generic response "sometimes a decision has to be made, even if it's a hard choice".

 

STBX has not given me direct answer, but I do know enough to know marriage is over (obviously). I have expressed my theory to her on how I see it, based on her action not her words. She neither denies or confirms my theory - which I'm okay with; I believe it to be true (writing's on the wall) but I don't know that I need to hear her tell me she left me for another man. Further, I believe she's in denial (a perspective I do not share with her) - downplaying the fallout her choice has had on me and the children. I believe the children have the right to know the truth for why this is happening - to add the information to their grieving process and heal completely. From what I've read - there can be a 'blow back' when they find answers to their questions later in life (when they're older) which can create a rift between them and the parent they then see at fault.

 

I believe the children must have a good relationship with their mother - a benefit to them. I do not agree that STBX believes they only need to know what's happening but not why. I have not shared my theory with children because (1) I don't believe I should be the one to tell them (her choice - she should own it with them and field whatever follow up questions arise) and (2) it would make me appear to paint STBX in negative light and I'm concerned she'll deny it to kids claiming I'm bitter.

 

STBX asked (couple of days ago) that I 'own up' to my part in marriage ending. (Seriously... WTF?) I said - I truly believe all was wonderful in paradise, she was totally convincing in her lies that she was happy (fooled me, her family, and our friends). How could I own my part - when I believed all was well; when I had no idea there were concerns. Concerns that no longer matter and therefore cannot be used as cause for marriage ending.

 

I asked my oldest (last night) if she wanted me to go with her counselling sessions. Her answer is that 'mom thinks it's a good idea'. Hmmm...

[FrannyForty]

Does STBX partake in the counseling with the kids?

 

As for telling them the truth about their mother. I told the kids that I didn't want to talk ill of their father to which my oldest said.."telling us the truth is not speaking bad about him...it's the truth and if it's bad then that is his fault and you shouldn't feel bad at all." Kinda makes sense, but I am not sure all kids see it that way nor do I think it is a good thing for kids to know ALL the details.

 

However, if you think they should know the truth then in a counseling session is a great place because then reactions can be immediately handled.

[worldgonewrong]

Be really careful of the whole therapy/counseling thing.

I find it flabbergasting how many crummy walkaway spouses suddenly get therapy into their heads in the immediate aftermath of all the wreckage that they've created!

My point being - she's using it (most likely) as a tool to validate her own lousy decisions, and believe me, there's a whole host of therapists/counselors who will do just that because they're getting their money. Add to that, you don't want to be sabotaged in that venue -- where she gets to merrily tear you down in front of a complete stranger, gets her mental-health rubberstamped, and then gets to go on her merry way.

Be care, is all I'm saying.

[worldgonewrong]

p.s. also with kids in the mix, re family counseling:

she's banking on the fact that you most likely won't say, in front of them & the therapist, that mom's an emotional (maybe physical) whore.

The counseling thing is emotional blackmail on you AND the kids, because at least she can feel like she did the obligatory thing before waltzing away.

I lived it. I know.

[TailSpin75]

Thanks for the input Franny - my concern is STBXW denial... I worry she'll tell kids when she's with them that I'm just saying that because I'm bitter. Do not want to start a war with her with kids in the middle. I've made my point clear to her - but she evades direct questions (not only from me but from her sister in addition to our oldest). Pretty obvious to me and her sister that OM was choice she made, but that's not what she's selling.

 

The way I see it - best case scenario is to 'own' it with kids, get it out and everyone can move on. I could put it out there but do worry it will cause a *****storm with kids taking on a lion's share of the stress (something they do not need).

 

So while I can't force her hand and I've made my position clear, I do not know that attending counselling with them will have a benefit. If my kids ask me to go - I'm there, but this is not their request. I do not believe STBX participates in sessions. My guess is that she's using counselling at a venue to 'justify' or 'excuse' her choices but not as a forum to 'own' it.

[TailSpin75]

WGW - I completely agree with you - and thank you for your input (now I don't feel I'm taking as much of a crazy angle). I can appreciate that it's difficult for readers to fully understand the nature of the situation - but many heart breaking stories share the same patterns. My story seems to be that of the STBXW doing all in her power to hide relationship with posOM.

 

Clearly I will not ever see her actions or choices as justifiable and I am taken aback that more recently (as the topic of the kids persistence) she is trying to put it back on me (with the 'issues' she had but never brought up). Having now had a few days to digest this information - it seems to fit the pattern that most experience with STBX and OM. STBX will do anything and everything to hide affair - to avoid shame a guilt they deserve to experience.

 

Ultimately - I totally accept that it's not my responsibility to 'out' her. Her actions and choices are a reflection of her character and it' not my job to let everyone or anyone know the truth. Myself and the kids (the nuclear family she destroyed) are the only one I believe are entitled to and deserve the truth. And for myself - I know enough, not seeking a confession from her on my behalf, but as the children are so persistent I believe they deserve to know and to hear it from her.

[worldgonewrong]

If she had to actually muster up the guts to tell the kids the truth about her own actions, she would most likely vomit all over herself in shame.

[FrannyForty]

wgw - That's just it! They don't believe they did anything wrong. In their warped minds it was something someone else did that 'drove' them to this temptation or it wasn't a 'big deal'. My H believes that since no 'physical' affair took place then it's not a 'real' affair. In his mind the OW was/is just a friend. It's quite the dilemma because the warped mind can easily spin it to be something different.

 

It really is way more frustrating to tell the kids about as well. They have friends of the opposite sex that they talk to and they don't understand what an EA really is. While my kids said they didn't think it was right what he was doing, I don't know that they actually thought it was the worst thing he could do.

[aMguilts]

stop letting your kids be a conduit.

They should be kept out of it as much as possible

they are not a means for either of you to use against one another.

 

keep the kids out of it. they really dont need to know EVERYTHING, and to be honest , the less they know the better!!

 

Fight as much as you like between the 2 of you, but keep them out of it

, time to grow up?#

 

aM

[TailSpin75]

aM where do you see kids are used as conduit? Fighting is via text and email so kids not involved...

[TailSpin75]

Tough day today. The apartment is like emotional quicksand. Staring at the television but watching the reel of thoughts move through my mind. Can't seem to get out from under it today.

[2.50 a gallon]

That is why it is aptly named the roller coaster. You build yourself up, think you are on the road to recovery and then you get a day like today.

 

Over time, the dips and the highs slowly flatten out, until then you just have to work on riding it out. Try to keep busy

 

If you are a NASCAR fan tomorrow a race.

[RebuildingMom]

I know what you mean Tail, I also have been having a tough day. Actually the past few days have been tough. I have my son for a whole week since my ex agreed to skip this week so I could have him while some close family visit me. But... I feel alone and damn if I don't miss having a significant other around. Gawd I hate feeling this way... I'm not ready to go out and live it up yet. I look good, I've lost 36 lbs and am almost back to the size I was in college at 23! But I don't "own" it yet. WTF! It pisses me off that I want to cry and grieve for the idea of marriage. Sorry had to vent a little - on the plus side I spent a good 2 hours ripping up all the landscaping in my backyard which he originally created and then neglected. It ended up being a weed infested eyesore so I started to destroy it so I can redesign it, and make it my space along with the rest of the house. (We never bought a house although we tried, and I can't beat the rent here while going through the D and it hasn't changed in over 10 years!)

 

Slowly we're getting there, right?

[TailSpin75]

Slowly is right, but we are getting there.

 

The ebb and flow of emotions is so relentless. I look forward to the day when the grieving is done. So much work to be done in moving forward; actions to take, decisions to be made, and life to live.

 

I agree rebuildingmom - not in a place to 'get back out there' either. Nature of the beast I suppose, missing the companionship but not in a place to be with anyone.

 

Better today though!

[aMguilts]

aM where do you see kids are used as conduit? Fighting is via text and email so kids not involved...

 

so why do they need counselling then?

 

it`s spilled out at some point hasn`t it???

 

aM

Edited March 10, 2013 by aMguilts

[TailSpin75]

Kids are in counselling to aid them in this transition... poor assumption aM