Cheaters, Cheaters, Cake Eaters

[promises]

Perhaps the wife puts everything on a balance and there is more good than bad.

 

Do they have children?

 

How long is the marriage?

 

Is it true she is seriously ll?

 

Does she have other options?

 

Being betrayed after a 30 year old marriage is not the same as being betrayed after being married for one year. It is not that simple.

 

 

IF you want to fix yourself you need better self esteem. A strong woman with high self esteem can see the BS of a cheating man right away and does not give a cheating man more than 2 seconds of her attention. You need to get there. There are many women that would never consider this guy.

 

I KNOW. What the h*ll is wrong with me. It's driving me mad wondering why I let this happen. This is not who I am.

[Eggplant]

what if it's a moment of weakness x 2 or 3?

Then probably he or she should leave him or her.

[promises]

"don't f**k yourself in the head with stupid men"

We spend too much time and energy analysing these men and their things .

 

 

I wish that there was a clapping emoticon.

[Eggplant]

I KNOW. What the h*ll is wrong with me. It's driving me mad wondering why I let this happen. This is not who I am.

 

Your ability to think logically may have been seriously compromised by love hormones. Mine was. The logical part of my brain was squashed and flattened, bound and gagged. I underreacted to too many infrared flags.

[Spark1111]

Happens once shame on you. Happens twice, shame on me.

 

We're talking about multiple cheating episodes here.

 

And why a spouse would stay if it is a pattern.

 

I never wanted to be the OW. I developed serious feelings for a man who told me that it was 'ok' to do so based on his situation.

 

The spouses must know that if their man is cheating he must be saying SOMETHING to the OW to get her to believe in him, right?

 

I'm not smashing the BS at all. I'm trying to understand why a spouse would stay with a serial WS

 

Okay, ladies, there are LOTS of stereotyping and assumptions being made here.

 

Promises, why did you engage in a relationship with a man who admitted he cheated on his wife not once, but twice with you?

 

Why did you do that? Are you co-dependent? Wouldn't you have forged a future with a known serial cheater had he left her for you?

 

Don't fool yourselves. At one time he professed his love for his wife, pursued her. She too felt he was the real deal and built a life with him.

 

Everyone has to stop drinking the kool-aid.

 

We both fell in love with him. We BOTH believed his lies and ILYS.And either one of us would, in time, have been thrilled to have been chosen by him.

 

Doesn't that make you, too, co-dependent?

[promises]

Promises, why did you engage in a relationship with a man who admitted he cheated on his wife not once, but twice with you?

 

Why did you do that? Are you co-dependent? Wouldn't you have forged a future with a known serial cheater had he left her for you?

 

 

no, no, no- that's where you are wrong. SHE told me after dday that he was a serial cheater! And, then a friend of mine confirmed it.

 

And, yes, I would imagine that there was some sort of dependency to him or something about what I felt he was giving me that kept me talking to him.

[promises]

so maybe all the women involved in a relationship with these men need to stop with the kool-aid.

 

But, then why take the kool-aid back? That's my question.

[Pierre]

I KNOW. What the h*ll is wrong with me. It's driving me mad wondering why I let this happen. This is not who I am.

 

It is no crime! There is nothing wrong with you, Furthermore, most men and women have self esteem holes. I know I have some self esteem issues and recognizing it was a first step. I used to aim low in my younger days. What is really important is what you do now.

 

I apologize for blunt statements.

[Spark1111]

I agree with you!! I am still recovering without a doubt. And, I am seeing that he loves himself above all others. I see that. However, it is important for me to understand things and if I can understand why the wife would stay with a serial cheater that I also fell for (yes), then I can try to 'recover' and not become a wife who accepts this.

 

Does that make sense. I want better. I want more. I need to be that and not fall into a pattern that will destroy me.

 

IF, GOD FORBID, you ever find yourself in this situation, DO NOT be the wife who accepts this because you will set yourself up for a lifetime of heartache.

 

Throw him out and demand change. If you do not see it, feel it in your bones, in your heart, then do not take the lying, cheating man back.

 

He earns your trust and your love, one small but steady step at a time, or it is over.

 

If you do not rain embarassing, life-altering consequences down on his hear, why should he change?

 

He gets to eat cake, over and over and over again. Which, if that is what he chooses, fine.

 

But the consequence for THAT is you are no longer in his life. Period.

[Sarabi]

so maybe all the women involved in a relationship with these men need to stop with the kool-aid.

 

But, then why take the kool-aid back? That's my question.

 

Because if its grape flavoured...I will ALWAYS go back

lol

[Sarabi]

By the way I'm not from the US...so what is this American phrase "stop drinking the Kool Aid"..?

Is it a way of saying "stop believing everything someone else tells you"

[Pierre]

But, then why take the kool-aid back? That's my question.

 

Why?

 

Because when we have a strong emotional need we can get addicted very easily.

 

Once there is addiction (or love) men and women act like idiots.

 

Deep love is just like an addiction.

[Pierre]

By the way I'm not from the US...so what is this American phrase "stop drinking the Kool Aid"..?

Is it a way of saying "stop believing everything someone else tells you"

 

Google Kool Aid and Jim Jones, religion,

[Eggplant]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

Edited November 18, 2018 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stevie_23]

I don't understand how some OW seem to think they know how a wife is at home? Example: Stevie ....she has no idea of anything with this woman yet takes every opportunity to slam her...and I realize this is all based on what the cheating old man told her during one of their online chats (since they never met in person). but how can an OW continually believe all the baloney that comes out of a cheater's mouth?

 

Do OW not see that no man is going to tell someone he wants to have an affair with that he is so happy at home, he loves making love to his wife, they have date night once a week, they are partners in every sense of the word, etc.... I mean, what woman in her right mind would think "Cool - let me get involved in a relationship with this great guy who loves his wife!"

 

Why do you keep slamming ME, hockeyfan? I have never slammed my ex-MM's wife. Why would I? I don't know her. What I know OF her she seems like a good woman. My ex-MM never slammed her either. He was ALWAYS respectful and kind in his words about her (note I said in his WORDS, not his actions, ok?)

 

Also, HOW could I ever slam a BS? My own partner is a BS by my own actions. And my ex-MM's wife is a BS too by OUR actions of the past. So...WHY oh WHY would I want to slam her? You should alter your attitude about me and my story, because currently it's inaccurate.

 

Anyway, you're right about the fact I obviously only know what he told me. I believe him though. He told me the history of the "family" life he lived there long before we got together. We were friends for 1-2 years before even beginning to get together. During that time (we were not CLOSE friends but it was like some people on this forum for instance, who are friendly in posts / threads) he wrote many songs (it was a songwriting forum we met and knew each other on) and a lot of them (in fact, possibly ALL of them) revolved around how he didn't want to be there, how he didn't know where he was or who he was in that current life, how he was lost, wanted more, something different, etc.

 

Before we got together, but after we started getting closer as friends, he talked a lot about his feelings. He loved his partner, and at that stage he lived with her and only 1 of her kids, who had recently moved back home. Another kid was moving back soon also, and he was dreading it. He said he wasn't sure what would happen, but he may move back to his home town as he'd never been happy living where they lived.

 

He didn't even start considering to move out of that house to be with ME (one day) until later down the track. When we were talking earlier, it was just him thinking out loud to me, as a sort of outlet for his feelings about it. He didn't bad mouth his wife, he just said they wanted and needed different things to be happy and that's neither of their faults, to which I agreed. At this stage also, in my mind, we were just friends learning more about each other. Neither of us had any idea of what would later happen. He had no reason to lie back then at all, and I don't believe he did.

 

ALSO, I consider me and him similar in that we were BOTH with other people when we were together. I never hid the fact I was NOT overly unhappy with my partner and that of course I loved her. I never hid the fact we spent the weekends together, ate dinner together every night, went on vacations together, etc.

 

HIS problem with his situation was not specifically his wife, it was her kids living with them. He said he and her got on well and it was fairly easy and happy most of the time. Whenever they went away for the weekend, it was always kid-related and he hated that. He would always come back early by himself to get alone time that he needed. Each night, whether we were able to talk online or not, he would be in his music studio by himself. If we could talk, he'd be with me. If we couldn't (cause his wife was home and might come in sometimes and it was too risky), he would still be on the songwriting forums he went on. I know this cause I saw him. And he still does this every night.

 

For a while, every morning he would get up at 5am, get dressed and ready, so that when his wife got up later, he could immediately go out in his truck, drive somewhere and park, so we could continue texting (cause if he stayed home we couldn't). He would try to time it so there was no "gap" between when we had to end our chat (when she got up) before we could move to texting once he left the house. Once I went to bed (time zone differences - his morning = my night), he would return home, and by that time usually his wife would have left for work.

 

I mean...he simply was NOT happy there. He wasn't "enjoying" her as his wife. Obviously they spent SOME time together, but for him to spend all evening in the music studio and then go to bed at 9pm (she comes to bed about midnight) and then to get up early and go out the minute she gets up...you know...(and if you're thinking how I do KNOW he really did leave the house every morning when she got up, I do know this because on weekend mornings he couldn't - no excuse of where to go, no work, etc - and then we could only text intermittently because she was there and it wasn't safe, AND he would sometimes film videos while he was texting in his truck those mornings.)

 

He didn't LIKE doing that either. He didn't want to have to do this. It felt like he was in limbo. To be avoiding his wife so he could "spend time" with his OW around the world who he wanted to be his ONLY woman, but couldn't.

 

It's not his wife's fault at all. Just she wants her family and domestic stability around her. He doesn't want that. He has told her (as far as I know). But either way, that's irrelevant now.

[promises]

Why?

 

Because when we have a strong emotional need we can get addicted very easily.

 

Once there is addiction (or love) men and women act like idiots.

 

Deep love is just like an addiction.

 

I'm not going to lie to you. Had I been the one he was with and their was an OW, and a dday and then he came back like a puppy dog. I would have had a very hard time not taking him back. H*ll, it's tough enough staying NC with his letters, and attempts at speaking to me - even knowing now what he is really after. CAKE.

 

So, yes, I can see her investment and with children as well. I suppose I should be very grateful that I still have options to make a better choice and not live in a life of emotional addiction as you say.

 

It's just the grey area of getting there I am trying to sort through.

[Sarabi]

Google Kool Aid and Jim Jones, religion,

Oh. I heard about that. Never knew the drink was Kool Aid ...

thanks for the reference though!!!

[jlola]

I have to admit I find it very odd when OW ask why BS stays. You began a relationship with someone who show you they can lie,cheat,manipulate and you still turned a blind eye.

 

The BS does not begin with this sort of person. So when the cheater gets caught, the BS thinks the person they met long ago is the "true person". Honest,loyal,ect. Then they stay trying to get the "real person" to come back.

 

This is how abusive relationships are. My mother met a man who she thought was loyal and over the moon about her. After 3 years of dating they married. She never imagined he was a serial love addict and as soon as the "infatuation" drug wore off he would be searching for his next high. So he had romantic affairs and she would find love letters that would rival any poet.

 

Thing is a soon as she would leave or threaten to, the tears would come out and promises would be made. So she again would believe that man she met initially will go back to his true self this time. But never happened.

 

I found it ironic how he would be so lovey dovey with his "soulmates". But treat his family like such crap. Abusive,cheap,etc.

 

Some of theses folks are master liars and academy award actors. The OW ill never see ho he acts hen he is trying to get back in good graces.I do not speak with many family members because my father bad mouths my mother so much they all think she is nuts. She is as sane and rational as can be. But they hear his version and villify her and think she drove him to cheat and we are exaggerating about the level of physical abuse he did to us because he comes off as a great guy!.

 

Unfortunately, my mother has become addicted to the roller coaster and like many in these relationships. their minds are focused on believing who he appeared to be initially is who he really is. Unlike the oW who initially sees a man with really bad character traits and also does not want to believe what she sees.

 

The BS met the beast while he was still in human form fell in love and hopes he returns to that form because she fell in love with loyalty,honesty,trust.

 

The OW meets the beast in Beast form and knows it will get no better than this but still stays. She fell in love with distrustful,cheater,liar,manipulator.

[Spark1111]

so maybe all the women involved in a relationship with these men need to stop with the kool-aid.

 

But, then why take the kool-aid back? That's my question.

 

You have NO IDEA what conditions are being set in place now to not take the kool aid back.

 

She may not care. She may care terribly and is speaking to her D atty every day.

 

She may feel relief at first, and then grow incredibly angry the next minute. Then passionate, then a puddle of tears. Horribly humiliated, then soaring in joy.

 

I think it would be safe to assume she is going through everything you are right now; the highs, the lows, the pain, the insecurity, the doubt, the depression, the tears.

 

Whether she woked outsde the home or not, you BOTH shared an emotional and physical depndency on this man and he manipulated BOTH of you for reasons of his own ego and selfishness.

 

Assume she feels exactly as you do now, and her life is in upheaval and doubt, NO MATTER WHAT HE TOLD YOU about her.

 

She loved him once, just as you do. She sighed in his arms and they talked of a future. They married and created it together. Both were free to leave or end it at any time. They did not. They share children, assets, friends, years of history, memories, traditions, family.

 

Assume, she may be feeling worse than you do now as she had more time, more legacy invested. This was her husband and the father or her children.

 

She may at times hate his guts, but she will think long and hard, for a while, trying to figure out if she is better off with him, or without him.

 

And because so many years are at stake and children too, she will greive longer than you as she tries to reach a decision she can live with.

[stevie_23]

I understand that reasoning.

 

It's kind of the same with any abusive relationship. Usually, the abuser is nice at first, normal, not abusive yet. The woman (or whoever, it's not always the woman who is the victim, but mostly), by the time, the abuse starts, justifies it based on everything she knows previously about this person she now loves. He wouldn't do that. He must've had a proper reason to do it. It must be ME, even! Stuff like that. Because all the current bad behaviour is based on the past GOOD behaviour and so the bad behaviour makes no sense to the woman, you know? So they...make excuses, blame themselves, blame a specific situation, etc. And they stay...out of confusion, denial, living in the past and hoping for the future?

[stevie_23]

I have to admit I find it very odd when OW ask why BS stays. You began a relationship with someone who show you they can lie,cheat,manipulate and you still turned a blind eye.

 

The BS does not begin with this sort of person. So when the cheater gets caught, the BS thinks the person they met long ago is the "true person". Honest,loyal,ect. Then they stay trying to get the "real person" to come back.

 

This is how abusive relationships are. My mother met a man who she thought was loyal and over the moon about her. After 3 years of dating they married. She never imagined he was a serial love addict and as soon as the "infatuation" drug wore off he would be searching for his next high. So he had romantic affairs and she would find love letters that would rival any poet.

 

Thing is a soon as she would leave or threaten to, the tears would come out and promises would be made. So she again would believe that man she met initially will go back to his true self this time. But never happened.

 

I found it ironic how he would be so lovey dovey with his "soulmates". But treat his family like such crap. Abusive,cheap,etc.

 

Some of theses folks are master liars and academy award actors. The OW ill never see ho he acts hen he is trying to get back in good graces.I do not speak with many family members because my father bad mouths my mother so much they all think she is nuts. She is as sane and rational as can be. But they hear his version and villify her and think she drove him to cheat and we are exaggerating about the level of physical abuse he did to us because he comes off as a great guy!.

 

Unfortunately, my mother has become addicted to the roller coaster and like many in these relationships. their minds are focused on believing who he appeared to be initially is who he really is. Unlike the oW who initially sees a man with really bad character traits and also does not want to believe what she sees.

 

The BS met the beast while he was still in human form fell in love and hopes he returns to that form because she fell in love with loyalty,honesty,trust.

 

The OW meets the beast in Beast form and knows it will get no better than this but still stays. She fell in love with distrustful,cheater,liar,manipulator.

 

I posted above before realising the post I was referring to had moved further up in the list, so here's my post again, sorry. Please ignore the previous one! (I can't delete or edit it)

 

I understand that reasoning.

 

It's kind of the same with any abusive relationship. Usually, the abuser is nice at first, normal, not abusive yet. The woman (or whoever, it's not always the woman who is the victim, but mostly), by the time, the abuse starts, justifies it based on everything she knows previously about this person she now loves. He wouldn't do that. He must've had a proper reason to do it. It must be ME, even! Stuff like that. Because all the current bad behaviour is based on the past GOOD behaviour and so the bad behaviour makes no sense to the woman, you know? So they...make excuses, blame themselves, blame a specific situation, etc. And they stay...out of confusion, denial, living in the past and hoping for the future?

 

In terms of the OW choosing to get INTO a relationship with the "beast", they also make excuses once they're in love. Before they're in love? I don't know what's going on there. I don't even know what went on in my own mind as the OW because I didn't expect to get into anything serious at all. Just friends, I thought. The love snuck up on me. And I didn't see him as a cheater or a liar. Or if I did, I saw BOTH of us the same because I was with a partner too. I saw him as in the wrong situation and trying to live with it somehow (more excuses).

[Spark1111]

By the way I'm not from the US...so what is this American phrase "stop drinking the Kool Aid"..?

Is it a way of saying "stop believing everything someone else tells you"

 

A crazy American, Jim Jones, started a religious cult and convinced everyone to move to a compound in Guyana. He was a very bad man and as authorities were closing in, he had them all drink poison kool-aid in a mass suicide. Hundreds died.

 

Don't drink the poison. Don't believe anything he says unless you can verify it with your own eyes and ears.

 

All that crap he told you about his wife to get you to engage with him?

 

He's home telling similiar lies about you to the wife.

 

He's pitting woman against woman, because he is a coward.

 

Don't drink HIS kool-aid. You and the spouse have so much more in common.

 

You both fell in love with the same man. He lies about both of you to each other.

 

You wind up resenting each other. He wins. See? Kool-aid.

[promises]

I have to admit I find it very odd when OW ask why BS stays. You began a relationship with someone who show you they can lie,cheat,manipulate and you still turned a blind eye.

 

The BS does not begin with this sort of person. So when the cheater gets caught, the BS thinks the person they met long ago is the "true person". Honest,loyal,ect. Then they stay trying to get the "real person" to come back.

 

This is how abusive relationships are. My mother met a man who she thought was loyal and over the moon about her. After 3 years of dating they married. She never imagined he was a serial love addict and as soon as the "infatuation" drug wore off he would be searching for his next high. So he had romantic affairs and she would find love letters that would rival any poet.

 

Thing is a soon as she would leave or threaten to, the tears would come out and promises would be made. So she again would believe that man she met initially will go back to his true self this time. But never happened.

 

I found it ironic how he would be so lovey dovey with his "soulmates". But treat his family like such crap. Abusive,cheap,etc.

 

Some of theses folks are master liars and academy award actors. The OW ill never see ho he acts hen he is trying to get back in good graces.I do not speak with many family members because my father bad mouths my mother so much they all think she is nuts. She is as sane and rational as can be. But they hear his version and villify her and think she drove him to cheat and we are exaggerating about the level of physical abuse he did to us because he comes off as a great guy!.

 

Unfortunately, my mother has become addicted to the roller coaster and like many in these relationships. their minds are focused on believing who he appeared to be initially is who he really is. Unlike the oW who initially sees a man with really bad character traits and also does not want to believe what she sees.

 

The BS met the beast while he was still in human form fell in love and hopes he returns to that form because she fell in love with loyalty,honesty,trust.

 

The OW meets the beast in Beast form and knows it will get no better than this but still stays. She fell in love with distrustful,cheater,liar,manipulator.

 

wow. thank you for sharing that and I'm sorry your mom had to endure that. This was incredibly insightful.

[Sarabi]

A crazy American, Jim Jones, started a religious cult and convinced everyone to move to a compound in Guyana. He was a very bad man and as authorities were closing in, he had them all drink poison kool-aid in a mass suicide. Hundreds died.

 

Don't drink the poison. Don't believe anything he says unless you can verify it with your own eyes and ears.

 

All that crap he told you about his wife to get you to engage with him?

 

He's home telling similiar lies about you to the wife.

 

He's pitting woman against woman, because he is a coward.

 

Don't drink HIS kool-aid. You and the spouse have so much more in common.

 

You both fell in love with the same man. He lies about both of you to each other.

 

You wind up resenting each other. He wins. See? Kool-aid.

 

Thanks Spark

I don't resent her. I envy that she is lucky to have found love. I guess it makes me feel wistful and a bit sad ...why does this girl deserve love and I don't (oh here I go. Not tonight its too late!!!)

...but perhaps even we ladies should all be grateful to her...for sparing us the agony by marrying him and potentially relieving us of what might be yet another bloody rubbish guy

[Spark1111]

Thanks Spark

I don't resent her. I envy that she is lucky to have found love. I guess it makes me feel wistful and a bit sad ...why does this girl deserve love and I don't (oh here I go. Not tonight its too late!!!)

...but perhaps even we ladies should all be grateful to her...for sparing us the agony by marrying him and potentially relieving us of what might be yet another bloody rubbish guy

 

That is one way to look at it, and if it helps you to heal, hold onto it.

 

But that bloody, rubbish guy? You fell in love with him just as she did.

 

You have a helluva a lot in common, and when both sides stop hating and resenting each other, as he has designed and orchestrated, you may actually realize it.