Cheaters, Cheaters, Cake Eaters

[promises]

You have NO IDEA what conditions are being set in place now to not take the kool aid back.

 

She may not care. She may care terribly and is speaking to her D atty every day.

 

She may feel relief at first, and then grow incredibly angry the next minute. Then passionate, then a puddle of tears. Horribly humiliated, then soaring in joy.

 

I think it would be safe to assume she is going through everything you are right now; the highs, the lows, the pain, the insecurity, the doubt, the depression, the tears.

 

Whether she woked outsde the home or not, you BOTH shared an emotional and physical depndency on this man and he manipulated BOTH of you for reasons of his own ego and selfishness.

 

Assume she feels exactly as you do now, and her life is in upheaval and doubt, NO MATTER WHAT HE TOLD YOU about her.

 

She loved him once, just as you do. She sighed in his arms and they talked of a future. They married and created it together. Both were free to leave or end it at any time. They did not. They share children, assets, friends, years of history, memories, traditions, family.

 

Assume, she may be feeling worse than you do now as she had more time, more legacy invested. This was her husband and the father or her children.

 

She may at times hate his guts, but she will think long and hard, for a while, trying to figure out if she is better off with him, or without him.

 

And because so many years are at stake and children too, she will greive longer than you as she tries to reach a decision she can live with.

 

He said many of the same things to me. I resisted and I was extremely vulnerable. I think it's absolute sh*t that he is still coming after me.

 

We are both women. Yes, my fault was believing him and acting on it. He was convincing.

 

I'm sorry you were hurt, Spark. You seem like a very giving and nice lady. It makes me sad inside.

 

I'm over all the hurt that this mess has caused. I know that all isn't well in her mind, either. I understand she's trying to put together her life. I just wish he would not have been in mine.

[Spark1111]

He said many of the same things to me. I resisted and I was extremely vulnerable. I think it's absolute sh*t that he is still coming after me.

 

We are both women. Yes, my fault was believing him and acting on it. He was convincing.

 

I'm sorry you were hurt, Spark. You seem like a very giving and nice lady. It makes me sad inside.

 

I'm over all the hurt that this mess has caused. I know that all isn't well in her mind, either. I understand she's trying to put together her life. I just wish he would not have been in mine.

 

Promises, trust me on this and please do not take it the wrong way....She is wishing the same thing too.

 

She believed him enough to MARRY him. She is trying to figure you, him, her life and her marriage out...and that can take years.

 

You were rejected, and I know how much that hurts.

 

She was betrayed....that's life changing. She is wondering if her whole life was a lie....It can take years to sort that out.

[promises]

Promises, trust me on this and please do not take it the wrong way....She is wishing the same thing too.

 

She believed him enough to MARRY him. She is trying to figure you, him, her life and her marriage out...and that can take years.

 

You were rejected, and I know how much that hurts.

 

She was betrayed....that's life changing. She is wondering if her whole life was a lie....It can take years to sort that out.

 

I know, and there is nothing I can do to make it better for her. Which is the hardest part.

[Catplates]

Why cause a major upheaval in your life when you can find an OW who is willing ?

 

It would mean dismantling years of history with wife and family, not to mention assets.

 

If a man is comfortable I believe he will not leave his W for the OW. If his life is intolerable he might. Lots of factors involved.

 

It's the difference between a long term A and an exit A.

[cocorico]

I'm convinced that xMM would be perfectly happy having me as a side dish to entertain his libido and ego all rolled into one.

 

His wife knows he's cheated at least twice, my guess is more.

 

Why do woman stay with cheaters? Yes, I was involved with a cheater, clearly, I was for a short time the OW. Granted a friend before he claimed his love was with me, yadda-yadda.

 

Anyway, I'm looking for some insight on why people believe that a spouse would stay with a husband/wife that cheats (more than one time) to where it has proven itself as clearly some sort of pattern.

 

Just thoughts, welcome yours....

 

Sometimes it's also denial.

 

I know of one BW who has had 17 DDays with the same OW, not to mention previous DDays with previous OWs, and yet she keeps taking him back. Evidence of his love for the OW is plastered all over FB (the MM's, and the OW's) and she has hired PIs in the past which have provided her with a thick stash of evidence... But she chooses to believe its really her he loves, even though their M has long been celibate, he doesn't touch her or even look at her as any photo of the two of them shows, etc. But as an older woman with limited choices, she has everything to lose and nothing to gain should he go, and she recognises that, and so does he, so he feels bad about leaving her and always goes back, even though his heart is clearly not there. She is so invested in believing her version because she cannot afford to consider any other possibilities.

 

My H's xW also did the denial thing when he told her he loved someone else and would be leaving as soon as he found somewhere suitable for him and the kids to stay. She laughed it off, called him a liar (who would ever want him...) and when he left, begged him back. Even after we M. She simply could not conceive of him not being "hers".

[stevie_23]

Why cause a major upheaval in your life when you can find an OW who is willing ?

 

It would mean dismantling years of history with wife and family, not to mention assets.

 

If a man is comfortable I believe he will not leave his W for the OW. If his life is intolerable he might. Lots of factors involved.

 

It's the difference between a long term A and an exit A.

 

This is what I thought would happen with my ex-MM. His life was apparently fairly intolerable and worsening by the month because he hated living with his wife's adult kids, who all returned to the nest to live at various stages. He got to several "breaking points" (when 2 of the kids moved back, he said it would only be a matter of time. Then when one of the kid's dog was going to come and live with them, he said there was no way he'd put up with that because the kids were always out and he'd be stuck taking care of it. Then when the 3rd kid came back, he said once he got enough money saved, he'd be out of there), but it never eventuated. Seems he could tolerate a lot, eh? lol

[Lostinlife4now]

I'm convinced that xMM would be perfectly happy having me as a side dish to entertain his libido and ego all rolled into one.

 

His wife knows he's cheated at least twice, my guess is more.

 

Why do woman stay with cheaters? Yes, I was involved with a cheater, clearly, I was for a short time the OW. Granted a friend before he claimed his love was with me, yadda-yadda.

 

Anyway, I'm looking for some insight on why people believe that a spouse would stay with a husband/wife that cheats (more than one time) to where it has proven itself as clearly some sort of pattern.

 

Just thoughts, welcome yours....

 

 

Xmm W....MONEY! and her kids.

 

Her words.....a longggggggggggg time ago.....He will never divorce me and I will never divorce him. No matter what!

 

She lives for her kids. Doesn't care too much about him...oh wait his paycheck.

 

Not a good way to live...IMO.....

 

I wish they could have a loving and fulfilling marriage!

 

And yes...If I did not STOP this farce, he would have been very HAPPY to keep me on the side for the REST of his life. He liked the cake eating and driving of the ego.

 

He always said to me....I owe this to myself (him), He does enough for his family, why not have me on the side for happiness.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Lostinlife4now
want to add

[Pierre]

Sometimes it's also denial.

 

I know of one BW who has had 17 DDays with the same OW, not to mention previous DDays with previous OWs, and yet she keeps taking him back. Evidence of his love for the OW is plastered all over FB (the MM's, and the OW's) and she has hired PIs in the past which have provided her with a thick stash of evidence... But she chooses to believe its really her he loves, even though their M has long been celibate, he doesn't touch her or even look at her as any photo of the two of them shows, etc. But as an older woman with limited choices, she has everything to lose and nothing to gain should he go, and she recognises that, and so does he, so he feels bad about leaving her and always goes back, even though his heart is clearly not there. She is so invested in believing her version because she cannot afford to consider any other possibilities.

 

My H's xW also did the denial thing when he told her he loved someone else and would be leaving as soon as he found somewhere suitable for him and the kids to stay. She laughed it off, called him a liar (who would ever want him...) and when he left, begged him back. Even after we M. She simply could not conceive of him not being "hers".

 

I agree, it is all about having options.

 

The BW has limited options, the OW also has limited options.

 

Why does the OW keeps guy that is not leaving after 17 d-days.

 

If all goes back yo low self esteem.

[Pierre]

This is what I thought would happen with my ex-MM. His life was apparently fairly intolerable and worsening by the month because he hated living with his wife's adult kids, who all returned to the nest to live at various stages. He got to several "breaking points" (when 2 of the kids moved back, he said it would only be a matter of time. Then when one of the kid's dog was going to come and live with them, he said there was no way he'd put up with that because the kids were always out and he'd be stuck taking care of it. Then when the 3rd kid came back, he said once he got enough money saved, he'd be out of there), but it never eventuated. Seems he could tolerate a lot, eh? lol

 

This is what he said over the Internet.

 

And you believed every word.

[beenburned]

promises,

 

This has been an interesting thread.

 

Personally, I have never known anyone in my life(family, friends, co-workers)

that stayed married to a serial cheater.

 

I would assume after a lifetime of cheating the person's methods become almost like a professional con artist. Very good looking, very charming, very believeable, and very deadly for all involved with him.

 

I have read on many different boards over the years since d-day. There are many OW on a certain board that brag about how the MM confided in them that he has cheated many times on his wife over the years.

 

I can only assume that this behavior is O.K. with them because they still choose to continue their affair with the MM after he confesses to being a serial cheater.

 

But just like you, I don't understand why!

[Pierre]

promises,

 

This has been an interesting thread.

 

Personally, I have never known anyone in my life(family, friends, co-workers)

that stayed married to a serial cheater.

 

I would assume after a lifetime of cheating the person's methods become almost like a professional con artist. Very good looking, very charming, very believeable, and very deadly for all involved with him.

 

I have read on many different boards over the years since d-day. There are many OW on a certain board that brag about how the MM confided in them that he has cheated many times on his wife over the years.

 

I can only assume that this behavior is O.K. with them because they still choose to continue their affair with the MM after he confesses to being a serial cheater.

 

But just like you, I don't understand why!

 

Truthfully, OWs and BWs that stay with these serial cheaters are very much alike. Lack of options and low self esteem.

[chaser0195]

Personally, I have never known anyone in my life(family, friends, co-workers)

that stayed married to a serial cheater.

I actually do know a woman who has taken her H back even though he is a serial cheater. The last I knew, he had cheated 5 times with different women and even ;eft her to live with these OW 2 times. Yet she takes him back when he tires of the new woman. She, for some reason, thinks his return means he DOES love her more. He treats her horrible when they are together and I don't mean just the cheating. He belittles her and she supports him even though he has a great job. She pays all the bills and he spends his money on what ever he wants. Now, granted, this is HER side of the story and I've never heard his but still. I have heard her say that they are "soul mates" and "How can you divorce someone when you are meant to be together":sick: Now to quote pierre, THis H must have a magic penis.

[chaser0195]

promises,

 

Personally, I have never known anyone in my life(family, friends, co-workers)

that stayed married to a serial cheater.

 

 

I actually do know a woman who has taken her H back even though he is a serial cheater. The last I knew, he had cheated 5 times with different women and even ;eft her to live with these OW 2 times. Yet she takes him back when he tires of the new woman. She, for some reason, thinks his return means he DOES love her more. He treats her horrible when they are together and I don't mean just the cheating. He belittles her and she supports him even though he has a great job. She pays all the bills and he spends his money on what ever he wants. Now, granted, this is HER side of the story and I've never heard his but still. I have heard her say that they are "soul mates" and "How can you divorce someone when you are meant to be together":sick: Now to quote pierre, THis H must have a magic penis.

[beenburned]

chaser,

 

Wow, what a story! I wonder if the 5 OW knew he was a serial cheater also?

[chaser0195]

chaser,

 

Wow, what a story! I wonder if the 5 OW knew he was a serial cheater also?

Who knows? They knew he was married but the women probably thought he loved THEM more than his wife, especially the ones he left his W for, and it would be different with them.

[cocorico]

I agree, it is all about having options.

 

The BW has limited options, the OW also has limited options.

 

Why does the OW keeps guy that is not leaving after 17 d-days.

 

If all goes back yo low self esteem.

 

The OW in question didn't. She pursued other options. The MM still keeps trying, though.

[cocorico]

The bolded.......a woman with a healthy sense of self, would not tolerate that sort of behavior no matter her age and it's certainly not love. The ow is tolerating it too, so she doesn't get to be put in a higher plane either. Neither woman is a winner.

 

The age thing bugs me cocorico. The way you worded that implies that her age impedes her in some way. I suppose if someone views it as they have to have a man, then yes our options as we get older aren't the same as when younger, but as a woman who isn't a spring chicken myself, I don't feel that I have to have a man. In fact......I'm quite content without one.

 

Projection, I'm afraid. You read a "because" in there that I did not insert. I did not say she had limited choices *because* she was older, I said she had limited options *and* she was older (which in many people makes them less keen on dramatic change, hence mentioning it).

 

I'm also "older" (albeit younger than the woman in question) and I'm well aware of my options. I exercise options every day, choosing where I want to be. I do believe that some people's options decrease over time, but I believe that is through their own choices rather than of necessity.

[Eponine]

The most common reasons I see are for the kids and finances. Once lives are intertwined it's hard to untangle them.

 

It doesn't make the marriage happy or healthy it just makes it a business contract.

[Pierre]

The most common reasons I see are for the kids and finances. Once lives are intertwined it's hard to untangle them.

 

It doesn't make the marriage happy or healthy it just makes it a business contract.

 

The saviors of cheating men:

 

Kids, the mortgage, etc.

 

The cheating men with no kids and property use other excuses such as the dog, the cat, etc.

 

There was a guy here that used the excuse of Catholicism.

 

The reasons to remain married are endless.

 

And then you have the cheaters that are not married: They simply have a girl friend. These folks have to be very creative to provide reasons as to why they don't leave.

[KathyM]

Some BS stay with a serial cheater because they think it's important to keep their family together. Some do it for their children, and basically sacrifice their own happiness because they think their children will be harmed if they leave the WS. Some women are very forgiving and think that it is their obligation to forgive and put up with whatever their husband does. Some women are dependent and fear being alone or fear change. Some stay for financial reasons. Some hold out hope that he will change, and they think he will change eventually, so they stay waiting for that day that he will change. Some love the guy so much and can't bear leaving him that they put up with sharing him with other women as long as she can have him also.

[Got it]

I have a friend, that dated a guy for many years who cheated on her often. Her friends have discussed things and tried to figure out why this sweet girl would keep taking this jerk back. It was so bad that it caused issues between her and her friends because we couldn't stomach her taking this treatment.

 

I think she did it because of low self esteem, to prove to him that she was worthy, that he kept dangling the carrot and would apologize and promise it would't happen again, and because neither could pull the plug. I think you get so caught up in the cycle that even though everyone is actually miserable no one just gets off the merry go round. It got so bad that she would catch him in the act and he would attempt to gaslight her. I think he, in some odd way, wanted her to end things and not fall back for him but he wouldn't actually be the one to do it. It was like he just kept ramping it up to try and get to that point.

 

Finally they ended, he found someone else that he stuck with and married her. The friend moved on but she has never made healthy dating choices. It is sad as she is a fantastic person and no idea why she accepted this level of treatment. She just doesn't see her worth. I am not sure how many times he cheated, it was a large number.

[waterwoman]

Why the hell does it matter? I could give you loads of reasons for my actions on d-day and some posters would rip them apart, argue and mock them. Because one woman's reasons are another's excuses, and one woman's decisions are another's weaknesses. The questions should be asked of the MM and the OW who made voluntary choices in full knowledge of the facts (mostly). Personally I was in such a unholy mess on d-day I'd struggle to find a coherent defence of what I did - I was shooting from the hip. 8 months later I am beginning to get a grip and see things clearly so I can make a more sensible decision.

[Quiet Storm]

I think BS's stay for a variety of reasons.

 

Some wives love their husbands and believe them when they say they want to work on the marriage. They may look at the marriage objectively and realize that they had both stopped nurturing the marriage. A marriage is like a plant- if you don't water it won't grow. Many wives realize they have been neglecting their husbands (which doesn't excuse cheating). Many husbands realize they were watering the affair, instead of the marriage, and find that the marriage improves when they change their focus. A long marriage has many ups and downs and takes effort to maintain. Many spouses take each other for granted. An affair is not seen as an end, but as a catalyst for change.

 

Some women are culturalized to believe that all men will cheat, and turn a blind eye as long as it is discreet. For them, the cheating is not seen as a betrayal. It's only viewed as a betrayal if his cheating is exposed. The betrayal doesn't make the wife feel disrespected because from her perspective, he is just doing what men do. However, if it is exposed, she feels betrayed because he did not do a good job of keeping it hidden. She is not threatened by OW because her status as the wife is much higher. This is also common in athlete's wives, where it is often accepted that men will cheat.

 

Some wives are older and no longer interested in sex. They value the companionship, the history and the bond of the marriage. The marriage is about taking care of each other and sharing the journey through life. It has evolved beyond romance. Some will turn a blind eye because they are no longer interested in meeting the sexual needs of their husbands. Infidelity isn't a dealbreaker because sex & romance are not priorities for her.

 

Some wives are totally blindsided because he has been continuing to meet all of her needs and has not expressed any displeasure in the marriage. She is in shock and needs time to absorb the truth. When something so terrible & shocking happens and we are not capable of handling it emotionally, our brains do something to protect us from the pain. It's a defense mechanism called denial, and it allows us to accept the realities of trauma slowly, in increments that are more manageable emotionally.

 

Some wives have built a family with their husbands. The value of having an intact family is more important than the betrayal. An affair does not negate the history and ties that they have together. It becomes a chapter in the book of their lives, and they work to move past it.

 

Some wives understand that their husband has his own personal issues that result in him acting out. They don't see his behavior as a reflection of the marriage, but as a manifestation of his own issues. She realizes that he is alcoholic or passive agressive or NPD and does not take the cheating personally. She knows he would cheat on whoever he was with. She could be codependant, or she could be sticking it out while he gets treatment, rehab, etc.

 

Some wives are broken themselves and have their own issues. They often have a very dramatic relationship with their spouses and there is a lot of back and forth cheating, revenge affairs and lying mixed with a lot of passion & intense feelings. MM may be cheating to get back at her for cheating on him, etc. These affairs are not about the OW, but about the dramatic & dysfunctional dynamic of the husband and wife.

 

I think many OW don't understand the strength of history and how it can bond people, more than romance or sex. The more recent sexual & romantic bond with OW often does not trump the historical and emotional bond he has with the wife. Many MM see romance & sex as an "extra" and accept that in a long marriage the sparks die down. They don't view a lack of excitement or romance as a failed marriage, because they expected that to happen. They just get those needs met elsewhere. They don't perceive the vow of fidelity to be as important as their vow of commitment. They rationalize that they are still committed to their wives because they married for life and have no intentions of leaving.

 

Most wives had that romantic intensity at one point, but they have also had babies, buried parents and shared a life with their husband's for many years. Marriage is not all romance and happiness. They have lived decades of joys and pain and laughter and shared experiences. They may have bounced back from other issues that caused great stress in the marriage. Regardless of how significant the affair is for OW, often both MM & BW do not view an affair as the end of a marriage. It becomes one more obstacle to overcome in their life journey.

[KathyM]

You described a lot of the traits of an abused woman.......which many say serial cheating is abuse and I agree.

True. Good observation. I very much agree that serial cheating, or any form of cheating, can be considered abuse, and women who stay with serial abusers often do so for the same reasons physically abused or emotionally abused women stay with their abuser.

 

I think my mother fits in the category of she always had hope that he would change and they could put everything back together and he would be the man she married at the beginning. My mother is a woman of great faith, but her and I differ in our thinking on one crucial issue surrounding my father. It would have been better for everyone had they separated.

 

Also it should be noted, that men who are serial cheaters gravitate toward kind, forgiving women, because they know they will use that kindness against them. My father certainly did. I sometimes ponder if things might have been different if my mother put her foot down very hard the first time it happened.

That's also a good observation. Serial cheaters continue to cheat because they can get away with it without major negative consequences. The wives who keep forgiving and tolerating this form of abuse prevent the abuser from having any major negative consequences for his behavior, so he continues. I don't mean to shift the blame for cheating at all, and it is squarely on the shoulders of the cheater, but enabling the cheating by tolerating it and not allowing negative consequences to occur is part of the problem, and makes these men think they may as well cheat, because it will be tolerated. It's very similar to the situation of physically and emotionally abused women. Those women that tolerate serial cheating have a lot in common with women who are emotionally and physically abused and stay with their abuser.

[KathyM]

My mother and I don't often talk about it, she is reluctant. She says she is healed from all that he put her through but a few months ago, we did talk a bit and she told me something that I didn't know.

 

My father was abusive in other ways beside the cheating, but what she told me a few months ago just made me see the horror all over again. My dad would demand sex from her, essentially rape. It had to be humiliating for her, because she knew that he had been with his ow........ after-all he hadn't been home in a few days. Disgusting I know! She also confirmed what I had suspected.......that she had her suspicions also that he was involved in 2 arson's. What is probably worse is that he didn't do them himself, he had 2 different nephews of his do them. One was a kid, one was a young man.

 

I admit that it took me a few days to process all that. It threw me for a loop.

 

My point.........there are a lot more skeletons in serial cheaters closets than just the cheating, they are deeply troubled.

Well, I think there's more than one type of serial cheater. Some may have a sense of entitlement and think that his needs are first and foremost, and have a lack of empathy for his wife. Others may have a lack of conscience or lack of empathy overall that carries over into other areas of their life.