Tired of Being a Secret

[joodee]

Here's my situation in a nutshell:

 

Starting dating a guy the same age as me (both in early 40s), heard through the grapevine he was married, I confronted him, he said yes, but they've been separated for 6 years, they don't live together, decided to give it a chance cause I have seen it work out for others.

 

After six months I wanted to meet his kids, he wanted to wait for their sake. I asked if his wife knew about us, he said no. I told him that bothered me, and that there must be unresolved feelings between them two and that I should step aside cause I don't like being a secret and feeling like the other woman. He said he' d do something cause he insisted there was nothing between him and his wife....well, a year and a few months later, I still haven't met his kids, wife still don't know about us, and I found out he had another girlfriend while seeing me!

 

I dumped him (the other girlfriend e-mailed me spilling the beans, saying that she knew all about me but knew I didn't know about her!), he begged and was crying to work it out, he cut off contact with the other girlfriend (she's pissed about that), and said he would get into therapy and file for a divorce cause he wants to clean up his life and stop living a double/triple life and that he realized how much he loved me when I left him cold and dry.

 

That was a month ago. He's so attentive (more than ever)... but...still no therapy appointment has been set, and when I ask if he talked to his wife yet, "I'm nagging him, he needs time, he's stressed out right now."

 

Please advise, thanks. I can't handle being a secret and being lied and cheated on (and being the "other woman"), but I am now having a hard time walking away. I have never been married and I want to get married and have kids.

[Breathe]

Gee... this OW did to you, what you are doing to his WIFE - hmmmm interesting.... maybe you should "spill the beans" to the WIFE and then see what woman he goes crying to next. If not you - then it wasn't meant to be in the first place. Sounds like a control freak and your allowing him to do this.

[mommabug]

have you asked him why he has not told his ex-wife about you? if he hadn't been cheating on you with his other girlfriend then i would have said be patient about being revealed. perhaps he still cares for his wife and doesn't want to hurt her feelings. my father took five years to get the nerve up to tell his kids and ex-wife about his new girlfriend. he was afraid that we would hate him for starting over.

 

any way, since he is a lying cheater it sounds more like he doesn't know what he wants and is trying to keep a few open doors to choose from. leave him before you invest to much of your emotional self into a relationship with a cheater.

 

you'll find a good man to have a family with if you expect more for yourself. good luck.

[snilljente]

The wife's not even an ex-wife YET, so this is a different situation.....I always say ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS....look at his actions, not his words...his words are meaningless at this point if he is consistently NOT backing them up with his actions! Leave him...he doesn't deserve one woman, let alone three!

[joodee]

I don't like to think what I am doing to his wife, they don't live together (he lives in a condo, he says she and his kids live with her parents), but now I suspect he gets together with her at least once or twice during the week, he says he's going to take his kids out or take them to dinner, but I suspect his wife goes along too. From what little I know it sounds like she's not even dating. Maybe he is telling her to hang in there, they'll work it out someday????

 

He keeps now keeps saying he's in a bad financial situation, and if he tells his wife about us, she would probably, immediately file for divorce and take him to the cleaners. I ask, why would she do that, if you both are separated and there's nothing between you two, why would she get upset if there's some kind of "understanding"?

 

I thought about "spilling the beans" to his wife (like his other girlfriend did to me), but why cause kaos for myself like that? This is all making me ill, I never thought I'd be in a situation like this.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Jodee??...

 

Is he "legally" separated?

 

I know it can all depend on what's agreed upon in the legal separation agreement. For instance, my husband and I drafted ours to read: "living independently and separate from one another"…meaning we were free to see other people during our two year separation without it being considered adultery or infidelity. Because it was a "no fault" and neither of us contested, we still had to wait through the two year period before the divorce was considered final. They want to make sure the marriage is irreconcilable.

 

However, six years sounds like a really looooong time to wait through a separation. I'm not familiar with the laws in other states, but something sure smells "fishy" to me. However, I DO know, according to what my attorney told me, that if my husband and I were to have sex…or even sleep together under the same roof during that two year period, it would justify one or the other contesting the divorce (if it could be proven) and we'd have to start all over again. I even had to bring a relative and friend into the final hearing with me to testify in my behalf that we had made no attempt at reconciliation and there was no evidence that my husband had been residing in my home.

 

Either they're not "legally separated"; the wife won't sign the papers (for some reason); or he keeps wavering back and forth about whether he wants this divorce or not. If it were me, I'd be asking some serious questions.

 

No---truthfully, I lack that kind of intestinal fortitude and patience. I'd probably be gone by now.

[ltomlinson81]

Maybe if you didn't date someone who is legally married, you wouldn't have such a problem.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by ltomlinson81

Maybe if you didn't date someone who is legally married, you wouldn't have such a problem.

 

How profound.

 

I think you're being played myself......

[joodee]

Hi, just wanted to say that after all these months, I'm still going back and forth with my MM. I appreciate all the advice (and reading the other threads are helpful), and I have even broken up with him several times, especially after reading some of the stuff you all wrote. I'm in therapy, I bought the book "He's Just Not That Into You" (great book, by the way), and I am brutally honest with him. My therapist has led me to say what's on my mind and not be afraid of the consequences when I speak up.

 

I have thrown much anger at him too, for lying and cheating and not being upfront with me about what is between him and his wife (he insists there's nothing, I know she still loves him cause I found cards from his W in his house). To recap, they don't live together and have been separated for over 6 years, and I have seen him on all holidays, we go out in public, etc. It's like the tables are turned in that respect. But I'm the secret to his family nonetheless, and I don't like that one bit. He keeps saying he'll introduce me to his teen-age daughters and prove that I don't have to be hidden, but nothing yet.

 

I did find out that the other girlfriends he had hidden from me (and his W) didn't know he was married, and he lied to them, telling them he was divorced and that he and I don't get along, I'm lousy in bed, and that I'm some sort of prima donna. He had said to my face I was the best he ever had. He has said he dropped those other girls and wants desperately to work out things with me. And he keeps spending money on me and trying to get together with me during most of my free time (I hardly get down time to myself due to work and him).

 

Each time I tell him where to go, I cut off contact, and I start to feel better, although I do lose sleep each time I do that. Then after several days he starts e-mailing me telling me how much he misses me, drops off flowers, etc. and I wind up talking to him, after he promises to change and file for a legal separation.

 

Now the pattern is we get along for two days at the most, then I start getting way uncomfortable and start asking for my needs to be met, which leads him to say that I'm "attacking him" (I ask for proof that he's not with other women, and that there's nothing between him and his W, and he gets upset that I don't trust him), and then I tell him to leave...then a few days go by and then I start thinking things are my fault. Note, I never intiate contact after a "fight", he does.

 

Now that is when I am at my strongest...I wish he wouldn't initiate contact after I tell him to leave, somehow he knows when I am getting weak....he has a therapy appointment scheduled next week, for whatever that is worth, cause he doesn't want to lose me.

 

Need as much advice and feedback as possible, thanks. My heart and soul can't take this anymore, but trying to tell him to go away and stick to it is hard cause he will keep trying and manipulate (although I am now much more aware of how and when he tries to manipulate me....maybe that's why we are so up and down now). My therapist doesn't think it's an addiction at all, I just don't want to be blamed and told that things are my fault. Sorry if I sound nuts, but I have to put it all out now so I can get some perspective from those who will read this. Thanks.

[SummerRae]

joodee,

 

first let me say, I completely understand your feelings and where you are coming from. You're torn and don't know what to do. Things are coming to a head. Some days are great, others you feel anger and sadness for what he is doing to you. You have doubts. I know because I dated someone who was married (didn't know about it for a long time) then found out. Still couldn't break it off, even though b4 I had always sworn I would NEVER EVER date a married man. It finally got to the point where I couldn't take his BS anymore and the bad feelings outweighed the good. It really sounds like you are getting to the point where you can't take the pain anymore either.

 

You are on the verge of making a huge change. You have gotten all the good you can from this relationship/experience. (I can tell by what you are saying in your post). The growth (which is in essense, the LOVE) has stopped growing. Things are getting stagnant because you are not getting your needs met in this relationship. And in essense all relationships are about NEEDS. (Ie. that is why the word "RELATE" is in relationships). When you RELATE to someone, you are getting your needs to relate to another human being MET. That is why when you have a friend for a long time and suddenly you start fighting all the time and can't seem to resolve the issues, sometimes friendships end. For some strange reason, we often have an easier time letting friends go than relationships. Why? Because with relationships we have sooo many complex expectations. Love complicates E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G, sometimes.

 

I think you know in your heart what you need to do, or you wouldn't be posting here. You'd be busy living, loving, and enjoying your other. I know because I was in your spot.

 

Please take what you can, and leave the rest. I hope you can somewhat relate to what I'm saying.

 

Keep posting.

[newby]

he is not letting you go because he needs you

he cant take the rejection he is an emotional vampire he is feeding off you, he is the same with his wife, if he finishes with these other women it is only temporary he knows he will be able to suck them back in now they are feeling rejected, he is giving you all the attention cos you are the thing he most needs to work on right now

this is my opinion, harsh i know, what helped me get out is people being harsh or realising from what others had gone through that i was treated the same its horrible but just do everything you can to get out

thoughts with you

((hugs))

[SummerRae]

PS you don't sound nuts at all! You sound like a strong but confused woman. You are not denying things. Instead you are putting it all honestly on the table so you can make the changes you need to make your life how you want. That is TRUE strength. Always remember that.

[Guest]

Originally posted by joodee

I have thrown much anger at him too, for lying and cheating and not being upfront with me about what is between him and his wife (he insists there's nothing, I know she still loves him cause I found cards from his W in his house). To recap, they don't live together and have been separated for over 6 years, and I have seen him on all holidays, we go out in public, etc. It's like the tables are turned in that respect. But I'm the secret to his family nonetheless, and I don't like that one bit. He keeps saying he'll introduce me to his teen-age daughters and prove that I don't have to be hidden, but nothing yet.

 

If you could imagine him speaking without words (only the flapping lips), then it would move things along a bit faster for you methinks. His words must be confusing but his actions speak volumes -- and they speak the truth of who he is.

 

 

Originally posted by joodee

I did find out that the other girlfriends he had hidden from me (and his W) didn't know he was married, and he lied to them, telling them he was divorced and that he and I don't get along, I'm lousy in bed, and that I'm some sort of prima donna. He had said to my face I was the best he ever had.

 

Do you honestly believe this person loves or even likes you?

 

I would never ever have those thoughts about someone I loved, much less voice them to disinterested third-parties, or even worse, interested rivals. Such acts are clues to the true nature of this person. How could one feel safe sharing their deepest hopes, dreams and fears as an intimate act when one has to worry that this person will run off and ridicule you to the next woman he happens to have sex with. I don't see how there could be any possibility of true intimacy with a person of this character.

 

 

 

Originally posted by joodee

He has said he dropped those other girls and wants desperately to work out things with me. And he keeps spending money on me and trying to get together with me during most of my free time (I hardly get down time to myself due to work and him).

 

Goodness, I hope he has a great deal of money or something else that you want to even the playing field. Otherwise, I can't imagine what has kept you hooked all this time.

 

 

 

Originally posted by joodee

Each time I tell him where to go, I cut off contact, and I start to feel better, although I do lose sleep each time I do that. Then after several days he starts e-mailing me telling me how much he misses me, drops off flowers, etc. and I wind up talking to him, after he promises to change and file for a legal separation.

 

Apparently, you already know the answer as to which action will result in you taking care of you. I hope you realise this and begin taking your own internal counsel seriously. It sounds very wise.

 

 

 

Originally posted by joodee

Now the pattern is we get along for two days at the most, then I start getting way uncomfortable and start asking for my needs to be met, which leads him to say that I'm "attacking him" (I ask for proof that he's not with other women, and that there's nothing between him and his W, and he gets upset that I don't trust him), and then I tell him to leave...then a few days go by and then I start thinking things are my fault.

 

Wow! Is he a comedian? Do you snort, giggle and guffaw when he makes these ridiculous comments?

 

 

 

Originally posted by joodee

Note, I never intiate contact after a "fight", he does. Now that is when I am at my strongest...I wish he wouldn't initiate contact after I tell him to leave, somehow he knows when I am getting weak....he has a therapy appointment scheduled next week, for whatever that is worth, cause he doesn't want to lose me.

 

I wish you wouldn't self-harm by accepting his invitation to contact.

 

 

Originally posted by joodee

Need as much advice and feedback as possible, thanks. My heart and soul can't take this anymore, but trying to tell him to go away and stick to it is hard cause he will keep trying and manipulate (although I am now much more aware of how and when he tries to manipulate me....maybe that's why we are so up and down now). My therapist doesn't think it's an addiction at all, I just don't want to be blamed and told that things are my fault. Sorry if I sound nuts, but I have to put it all out now so I can get some perspective from those who will read this. Thanks.

 

I don't see his manipulation at all, unless you are referring to the confusion caused by the flapping lips, he has shown through his actions and behaviours exactly who and what he is. He couldn't make it more clear. No move to divorce from his 'separated' Wife, multiple other women, etc. Where is the confusion here?

[newby]

if you cannot face the idea of total seperation from this man then at least take a break for a while and get things clearer in your mind. he is an extreme manipulator, i have been with a guy like this that i asked to go to therapy etc, he went to therapy but manipulated his way through that too, he will go through the motions of what you want him to but he has no interest in self analysis, he is way too weak for self analysis, way too lazy for self analysis, if he doesnt have the guts to be honest with anyone else what on earth makes you think he will have the guts to be honest with himself

[LadyRLD]

He's an egotistical monster. He is a master of manipulation. In other words, he likes playing games. Keeps him from getting bored.

 

I know that doesn't help. The fact that you keep taking him back, makes him think it's OK to keep treating you the same way.

 

He only comes back because he knows he can. He knows that when you cut off contact with him that you don't mean it. He will give you a few days to cool off then start up with the bulls*&t emails and flowers.

 

You can best believe that he is probably keeping the other woman too. Or if she hasn't taken him back, he has replaced her. You just have to realize that this man can not just be with "one" woman. He hasn't grown up fully to become a man.

 

He may have started young when he had kids? Not sure. He's still acting like he just came out of High School.

 

If you want to have kids and get married then this is not the man for you. He's a liar and manipulator. He knows what kind of women to pick too. He comes back because he knows you can still be manipulated.

 

He's full of himself too. He thinks women can't live without him. They prove it to him over and over again because they keep taking him back no matter what he does. He doesn't even have to work hard at it. So you are just validating his huge ego when you take him back.

 

The only way you should take him back is if he let you meet his kids. Oh and you should ask to meet his W. If he isn't having a relationship with her. He should let you meet her so she will know who their children will be involved with. Other than that, no flowers or little love emails should reel you back in. The next time you dump him, make sure it's a drastic event before you take him back.

[LadyRLD]

When you tell a man that you need space and for him to NOT contact you, then only a man who respects you will NOT contact you.

 

IF he keeps contacting you, it's not because he doesn't want to lose you. It's because he doesn't respect you and he's selfish. He also knows that you are weak. His penis tells him where to go. He doesn't think with his head and he doesn't seem to have a heart. If he did, he would let you get your thoughts together and contact him when you are ready.

 

Just think of it this, if he asked you to not contact him for awhile. Would you disrespect his wishes and call him anyway? NO!!! Only if you didn't respect him as a person and just cared about getting your own sefish needs met you would call him.

 

Think about it!!!!!

[MsMree]

who hasn't decided which one of you is the better deal - he loves having his W so "into him" that she hasn't even dated for what... 6 years (did i read that correctly)?

 

I bet you that makes him feel like a big-macho-stud (oh how i love to emasculate these types of men!!!)

 

I FEEL BETTER NOW

[LadyRLD]

I'm with you MsMree. It does feel soooo damn goood!!!!!!!!!

[joodee]

I'm so glad you all responded, you are right, he is a F$%^&ing wimp, I need to see the truth in front of my face, I am just feeling sooooo weak right now....I was practically at the point where I didn't care....and I am starting to feel extremely unattractive and that I have nothing to offer sexually to a man anymore. Like I feel empty and nothing is real anymore. Cause this is all a "fantasy", just a way for him to live as...whatever. I wanted so much more for my life.

 

FYI he used to have me over to his place all the time, now he's been coming over to my place all the time...."I'll bring dinner and wine"...he used to cook all the time and wanted me over at his house...guess since the last few times at his house his phone would ring, he'd lower the volume of the answering machine, then I'd get pissed and leave, then he'd call and get mad for me leaving...I think you all know what I am getting at here...how pathetic can I be to even put up with that? I say I'm not going to put up with it, and I get all mad and tell him I'm leaving and that I think he has too much to hide, but I wind up talking to him. My guess is he finds ways to come over now to my place so I won't hear who's calling him...and how the heck does he even have time for others???? At midnight??? I can't "babysit" him or be around him 24/7 so he won't feel alone, I do have a life and work, and my own apartment too. And I answer my phone in front of him all the time.

 

Maybe I'm just having a bad night, I was going to say something tonight to him about "let's not see each other for awhile, I need a break", I didn't, which I could kick myself for. I don't mind any harshness, I need to hear what you all think, you are all correct, all the thoughts you all wrote are what I have thinking in the back of my head, I just need to get it slapped in my face and hope it will drive me to action to take care of myself and not give a rat's you-know-what about him.

 

Yes, things are coming to a head, I can feel it.

 

I do so want to meet the kids, and that was my argument the whole time....my line over and over: "if there was nothing between you and your separated wife, you wouldn't have a problem with me meeting her or the kids." And that (among many other moments) is when I should have said "see ya, call me when you are single", but like one of you said, now he probably thinks it's ok to treat me the way he does cause I haven't stuck to my NC with him and give him a chance after the flowers and e-mails, which now in hindsight don't mean nothing to him. Just a way to keep me "in line" (for lack of a better term).

 

I have never dated anyone with kids before, and people say I am wonderful with kids. And, to top it off, he says I would be a wonderful mother and he's sure I would get along wonderfully with his kids, and that he knows I would be really cool with them.

 

But the actions are louder, no real introduction yet. Just this once in a great while distance hello at where I work (where there is no danger of any real interaction). I told one of my friends that really hurts, makes me feel I am not worthy enough to be around his kids...when in actuality he's keeping them from me to save his own hide...

 

I should have walked away by now, I know that. I need a good drink right now. Yes, I'm writing here and not holding back at all cause I know I need to get the hell out and need all the help and feedback I can get.

 

Thanks for the hugs!!!!!

[joodee]

LadyRLD,

 

You are right, if any man asked me not to contact him, hell ya, I wouldn't contact. I'd respect his wishes. My mm is not respectful of anything I ask for or what or need.

 

I just remembered one time when I told him I didn't want to see him till he took action on his "separation", and he acted all understanding, then said "you need a hug" and I said ok...and since I was all upset, I fell for that...and he came "prepared" with a condom in his pants pocket. Like he knew that if he could only get me in bed, I would change my mind.

 

MsMree, say whatever makes you feel good...say it for me, then maybe I can say it and feel good too!! Emasculate away!!! You know what? That really stinks that he'd do whatever to prevent his W from dating...I could never do that to someone....he's really a piece of work!!! You got it right, they haven't lived together for over 6 years....I don't want to be a part of this deception...

[joodee]

Well, today is a new month, time to try out new behavior. Right now I have been browsing through several posts and I would just love to forward some of the things that were said on to him, so he'd get a clue. But I know that would do no good.

 

I have a flu right now so I can easily tell him not to come see me, question is how do I bring up yet again that I don't want to see him while he still is married and that I need time to myself to deal with all the cheating and lying?

 

When I do bring it up nine times out of ten he'll say this is a bad time to bring this up, don't you care about me, etc......

 

Maybe I just won't answer the phone when he calls, I do have Caller ID. But then I feel guilty when I do that and then I wind up talking to him out of guilt. Help me break this cycle.

 

And I really appreciate all the posts, I really do. I don't think I am thinking clearly right now. I get the feeling, however, that he's up to no good again, I can recognize the pattern that he is off talking to other women or having an early dinner with his wife and kids...he always says it's just him and the kids, but I have this feeling he's been lying the whole time...see he would have called me a few times today already (today he hasn't, I'll bet you alot of money he is with w and kids, and will call later tonight and lie about it), but since I have the flu and had a test to study for the last few days, and I know he can't stand being without attention for one minute...

 

Help!