Reconcile down the line or not?

[dejame]

not sure what to say. Seems as if the two of you are like the movie Groundhog Day. On a continual loop of the same situation.

 

If you are to have a successful relationship something needs to change. Seems she goes out and has her fun and then when things get bad she comes back to you to fix it.

 

I think she needs to "fix it" and "fix" herself before you contemplate reconciling again. I think she needs to show you that she can live without cheating and take care of herself first and not look to you as the "savior". She needs to save herself and then the two of you could work on a relationship.

 

Otherwise, it seems as if the loop will continue. Just my opinion. Good luck.

[Yasuandio]

homer yas?

 

aM

 

Duh? I like cite Homer McDonald, his reading and taped materials all the time. Whatta you think got your head screwed on half azzed straight? I am totally a fan of Homer McDonald's ideas, i.e., "Positive Psychology" as it is coined in the Literature. Part of Positive Psychology is about trying to have a happy, positive attitude, seeing the good in things, - as OP is obviously doing, with some good results in his own personal recovery. Homer can certainly help you draw your mate back - for sure. Keeping them there - that is another matter. As Homer would say, you do not need them - and you only desire them. It is nice to have things you desire - but it is not necesssary. When you get that thru your head - you begin to stop WANTING, and become less needy and more desirable. But even Homer suggests that some relationships are not always meant to be when he discusses reality: "Sometimes God knows better. Sometimes fate knows better." Yas

 

PS I neglected to cite Homer McDonald in my post above, as I used his example of the Mercedes metephor. I read Homer so much that he has become almost a second language to me! Homer McDonald has had an incredible influence on my thinking about human relationships. Please excuse oversight.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Yasuandio
Need Citation For Homer McDonald

[TaraMaiden]

You are right Tara. This is a waste of time. You know it all. That's why you safely and arrogantly assumed that it was more bad than good.

 

Don't waste your time on my thread.

 

I'm not the only one....

You just don't seem to be either resolving anything, or actually taking anyone's counsel on board.

you've just spent most of your time rebuffing.... I really just don't get it...

 

The purpose of this thread is to let my thoughts out and get opinions.

....Bringing you to.... what conclusion....?

 

 

This is where Ms. Tara Maiden's statements about ratios and the deathbed become particularly relevant.....

 

I would advise you re-review every single post that you have challenged....

 

The risk you're taking is that it will still be to that ratio.

 

Quite........

 

There is point to every post.

Rather than refute, take it all in and use it to your advantage.

 

But it's my opinion that trying to build on this, is not a wise idea.....

[Jstub]

I am back from my weekend trip, did some thinking and I have read the posts multiple times to try to absorb as much as I can.

 

TaraMaiden: I would like to apologize to you. I understand where you are coming from and you are absolutely right. I am stuck in limbo. I cannot make up my mind up about anything. I posted this thread to get some direction and it seems that I just don't like what I am seeing. Maybe I just wanted some encouragement to reinforce what I was leaning to in the first place. If I saw this post on LS by someone else. I know exactly what I would tell that person. Because, I would only use my head and not my toxic emotions.

 

The thing is, I am a very structured person and in my head, you separate and get a divorce, or you separate with a clear goal in mind (other than divorce). Hence, the limbo.

 

The "progress" that I have made, if you call it that. Is the realization that my thinking is flawed and even though my ACTIONS towards my wife, point to one direction (at least to her ), I am struggling to keep that direction going within myself. These 2 need to be aligned for better recovery.

 

aMguilts

 

I really mean it when I say it doesn't make a difference that she is not pregnant. It really is no relief to me. The action, is still there. The betrayal is still there. The stupidity of having sex without protection with a man she has known for 3 weeks is still there. The disregard for getting HIV and not be there for her children, is still there. I don't care that it is a low chance, it's just the selfishness that stands out in all this.

 

The thought of being pregnant accelerated some of her realizations. It served a purpose for her.

 

WHY do i want this marriage to work?

 

Because, I am chasing a ghost. I am chasing something that is not there. Want to fix things... but that is not realistic. I have to let go of that ghost chasing and just let it go.

 

Dejame

 

Yes, it is a loop. Going around in circles. I realize I need to stop this loop, because I will find myself in the same situation in a year.

 

You are right again, she goes and does what she feels like, justifies it, weighs in her options, and runs back to me to "fix" it.

 

Yasuandio

 

Yes, her sudden interest is because she realizes she is about to lose me. Her coming clean and trying to cling to me, was accelerated because of her fear of being pregnant. I don't think she would have come clean, if it wasn't for that.. not so soon. Before that, she was making every effort to "conceal" the fact that she actually slept with him (even though I knew).

 

For the drugs, I know this is not the way. I am not her physician or whatever. It was just a gesture on her part, but she has to go to rehab. That is very clear. Whenever she is coming off the dose she had, she gets aggressive and kind of looks at me as the enemy that is holding what she wants. I will not put up with that.

 

She has a complete addict personality. She is always addicted to something, and yes, even if she goes to rehab, there is a very very high chance, that she will turn into something else. I don't think she can be "fixed". It could be substance abuse, or addiction to a power game with men. To see how she can "break" a "tough" guy who resents relationships, and make them fall for her in a matter of days. She has this power over men. Bottom line is, whatever her addiction is, or will be, my children and I will be the ones suffering. If I were to put %s out there. I would say, there is only a 10% chance of her not being an addict.

 

I have been in the "happy state" for about a month. When she had her interest in that guy, and she was obsessing about it, it was very easy for me to move on, get better and be happy in some way or another. The minute she started having realizations, and "building a bridge" towards me, I think that set me back. That gave me hope, that she will be "fixed" - but I realize I need to stay on course.

 

Update

 

As i mentioned earlier, I was on a weekend trip with my children. The wife is out of the country, so I have 1 week with just me and the children. The city we visited, was a coastal city, that happens to be very romantic. I did have a blast with the kids, but I also got emotional. I kept remembering, the good days etc., it was very difficult. She kept popping in my mind. Shortly thereafter, this turned into anger. I was so upset with everything that has happened, I wanted to smash something.

 

While I was walking, I saw all these beautiful women, and I know if I didn't have my kids with me, I would have had an interesting weekend.

 

While I was driving back home, I knew the kids were dead tired and will pass out as soon as we get back. So I called a girl that I was seeing. I was very flirtatious with her and I invited her to come over. After some back and forth, she agreed to come.

 

After she agreed, I knew why I was asking her to come. I knew it was only because I wanted to get even with my wife. I started having doubts, but I did not stop her from coming.

 

She showed up and she looked stunning. She had put in a lot of effort to look the way she did and I don't buy her, "oh i just came after work". We talked for about 3 hours, I had to hold myself back from making a move on her. The fact that I had to stop myself, tells me something about myself anyway. I realize I am trouble for this woman... but... at the same time, I have been honest with her about pretty much everything. We just click so well together etc. Basically, we did not sleep with each other, but when she was leaving, we held each other.. there was chemistry in the air.. it could have easily turned into a steamy night.

 

I want to cut her loose - not fair for her. I am moving in a couple of weeks. I plan on telling her that today, but if she says she wants to come over again, I don't know if I would stop her.

[marklarsson]

It's been bad for longer than it's been good.

 

 

The risk you're taking is that it will still be to that ratio.

 

When you're on your death-bed, will you wish you hadn't wasted so much time on pursuing a possible, rather than knocking it on the head, and seeking a definite?

 

Is running into the friends of your ex breaking no contact?

[TaraMaiden]

That depends.

 

On what?

 

You figure it out.....

 

 

[aMguilts]

jstub

you need to work out what you want and at least stick with it for more than 1 day at a time.

You haven`t got a CLUE what you want, have you?

 

You were with your kids and you invited another woman over?

To me , thats disgusting.

At least wait till they are back with their mother

And then you can do whatever you need to do to get through life

 

"WHY do i want this marriage to work?

Because, I am chasing a ghost. I am chasing something that is not there. Want to fix things... but that is not realistic. I have to let go of that ghost chasing and just let it go. "

 

what the **** does THAT mean??

(can someone decipher it for me? please)

 

aM

[Jstub]

See my reply within the quote.

 

jstub

you need to work out what you want and at least stick with it for more than 1 day at a time.

You haven`t got a CLUE what you want, have you?

 

Yes, I haven't got a clue. Absolutely right. As I mentioned earlier, I was doing perfectly fine moving on, when she had her thing going with OM. That was motivation for me. The minute, she broke things off and realized this and that, and told me she is not over me, that threw me off balance. I do realize however, I need to keep moving in the same direction in my head. My actions towards her, show her, we are going separate directions, but I struggle to keep on course in my head.

 

You were with your kids and you invited another woman over?

To me , thats disgusting.

At least wait till they are back with their mother

And then you can do whatever you need to do to get through life

 

Yes, I was with my kids and I invited her over. What I did was wrong, due to the motivation itself and the unfairness towards my new lady friend. The fact that I brought her to my house while the kids were there, may be disgusting to you, and I respect that - to me, it is not. She had no interaction with the kids whatsoever. I live in a big house - the kids were passed out and we were in a completely different area of the house.

 

"WHY do i want this marriage to work?

Because, I am chasing a ghost. I am chasing something that is not there. Want to fix things... but that is not realistic. I have to let go of that ghost chasing and just let it go. "

 

what the **** does THAT mean??

(can someone decipher it for me? please)

 

Let me rephrase that. I realize, if I were to be true to myself, that I do not want my wife back. The reality of it is that she is not there. That is why I say, I am chasing a ghost. I keep chasing the idea of this perfect woman. Beautiful, caring, everything I ever wanted etc. but that's not real. My wife right now is not that person. When I do want her back, I feel like "oh once I fix her" it will be great etc. but I can't fix her, she needs to fix herself. If I look at her behavior, and the patterns, there is no end in sight - the getting fixed part is not in the end of the tunnel. So, I need to let her go and just move on. That's what I am realizing.

 

I guess the ball being in my court is throwing me off balance. When I didn't have a choice, I was fine. I am having a hard time, doing the "responsible" thing, which is to take a position and divorce her.

 

When I do pull the trigger, I need to bring myself to a point, where I will not totally blame myself for what has happened. I have been put in a very impossible situation and even though, I made mistakes, her actions were not justified. That is the reason, why this marriage is done.

 

I hope that deciphered it for you?

aM

[aMguilts]

no you haven`t

 

you have said a lot of things

and you contradict yourself in every post

pull the trigger now

 

what are YOU waiting for?

 

you aren`t going to change and neither is she !

 

maybe YOU made her the way she is?

she`s better off without you IMO

 

man up

you file, divorce her

you can go and do whatever you want to then , cant you?

 

aM

[Jstub]

no you haven`t

 

you have said a lot of things

and you contradict yourself in every post

pull the trigger now

 

what are YOU waiting for?

 

you aren`t going to change and neither is she !

 

maybe YOU made her the way she is?

she`s better off without you IMO

 

man up

you file, divorce her

you can go and do whatever you want to then , cant you?

 

aM

 

Thanks for your time and input. I appreciate it.

[aMguilts]

it didnt take any time at all

but yw

aM

[aMguilts]

i`ve got more things to deal with than worry about your EGO

 

like i said...get on with it

i wish you luck

you need it

 

aM

[TaraMaiden]

Let me rephrase that. I realize, if I were to be true to myself, that I do not want my wife back. The reality of it is that she is not there. That is why I say, I am chasing a ghost. I keep chasing the idea of this perfect woman. Beautiful, caring, everything I ever wanted etc. but that's not real. My wife right now is not that person. When I do want her back, I feel like "oh once I fix her" it will be great etc. but I can't fix her, she needs to fix herself. If I look at her behavior, and the patterns, there is no end in sight - the getting fixed part is not in the end of the tunnel. So, I need to let her go and just move on. That's what I am realizing.

 

I guess the ball being in my court is throwing me off balance. When I didn't have a choice, I was fine. I am having a hard time, doing the "responsible" thing, which is to take a position and divorce her.

 

When I do pull the trigger, I need to bring myself to a point, where I will not totally blame myself for what has happened. I have been put in a very impossible situation and even though, I made mistakes, her actions were not justified. That is the reason, why this marriage is done.

 

I hope that deciphered it for you?

 

You've finally realised that locating the problem - does not mean the solution is also ready to hand, or that it is even workable, viable or that it will be adhered to.

 

You can't fix her, and you can't make her into what you want her to be.

 

SHE has to do that, she has to want it enough to do it - and the hard work has to come from her.

 

So now you seem to get it.....

Be 'the man', and file.

 

And don't back down.

[aMguilts]

You've finally realised that locating the problem - does not mean the solution is also ready to hand, or that it is even workable, viable or that it will be adhered to.

 

You can't fix her, and you can't make her into what you want her to be.

 

SHE has to do that, she has to want it enough to do it - and the hard work has to come from her.

 

So now you seem to get it.....

Be 'the man', and file.

 

And don't back down.

 

why waste your time anymore?

 

this situation is never going to change:rolleyes:

 

aM

[TaraMaiden]

You do what you want.

I'll do what I want.

 

We've had this discussion before - not everyone dances to your directions simply because you think something is or isn't right for you .

 

I don't interfere with your contributions to this thread, so reciprocate.

 

Thanks.

[imtooconfused]

When I do want her back, I feel like "oh once I fix her" it will be great etc. but I can't fix her

 

I don't know where you are on your decision process so take this advice for what it's worth... Reading this thread from the beginning, it sounds like you are/were not interested in taking your wife back because of any particularly great quality that she possessed because you never really highlighted many (if any) things about her that you were attracted to. Instead you focused on a lot of her failings and areas of improvement. Obviously one would expect to take a partner back after they improved themselves, but you seemed to be highly interested in helping your wife improve.

 

There is a psychological behavior where someone receives extreme gratification from the act of rescuing someone else from destructive behaviors and helping them through the self-improvement process. I don't know what the clinical definition is for this, but I tend to think of it as the "fixer complex." I can't say whether this describes you, but it sure sounds like you are more attracted to the process curing your wife of her addictions than you are about the outcome of that process. Your comment above would confirm this observation.

 

The reason I ask you to consider this possibility is that your wife sounds like someone who would be an extreme challenge when it comes to resolving her addictions, given the multiple addictions and the multiple relapses of each addiction. As you have probably experienced, helping her overcome her propensity for infidelity and drug abuse will be extremely difficult and not likely to be very rewarding. In short, I have to reinforce your own statement that you can't fix her. She will need to fix herself. Therefore, for someone who has a "fixer complex," there will be nothing about such a relationship to be thrilled about.

[aMguilts]

You do what you want.

I'll do what I want.

 

We've had this discussion before - not everyone dances to your directions simply because you think something is or isn't right for you .

 

I don't interfere with your contributions to this thread, so reciprocate.

 

Thanks.

touche!

 

i was agreeing with you!!

 

again i cant seem to say anything without it getting twisted beyond belief on here!!

aM

[TaraMaiden]

Oh - okay.

 

I'm sorry, I apologise.

The written medium sucks in many ways and can be a wholly inadequate means of conveying intention...

 

Sorry!

[Jstub]

I don't know where you are on your decision process so take this advice for what it's worth... Reading this thread from the beginning, it sounds like you are/were not interested in taking your wife back because of any particularly great quality that she possessed because you never really highlighted many (if any) things about her that you were attracted to. Instead you focused on a lot of her failings and areas of improvement. Obviously one would expect to take a partner back after they improved themselves, but you seemed to be highly interested in helping your wife improve.

 

There is a psychological behavior where someone receives extreme gratification from the act of rescuing someone else from destructive behaviors and helping them through the self-improvement process. I don't know what the clinical definition is for this, but I tend to think of it as the "fixer complex." I can't say whether this describes you, but it sure sounds like you are more attracted to the process curing your wife of her addictions than you are about the outcome of that process. Your comment above would confirm this observation.

 

The reason I ask you to consider this possibility is that your wife sounds like someone who would be an extreme challenge when it comes to resolving her addictions, given the multiple addictions and the multiple relapses of each addiction. As you have probably experienced, helping her overcome her propensity for infidelity and drug abuse will be extremely difficult and not likely to be very rewarding. In short, I have to reinforce your own statement that you can't fix her. She will need to fix herself. Therefore, for someone who has a "fixer complex," there will be nothing about such a relationship to be thrilled about.

 

I probably do have that complex. It does describe me pretty well. It's true that I did not mention any of her qualities, because I have not seen those good qualities for a while... or I have seen a glimpse of them for a very short period of time.. So it is hard to focus on those qualities.

 

The only reason I struggled with my decision was because the way I was thinking was flawed in a sense. I was telling myself, IF she gets fixed, she would be the woman of my dreams again... I loved this woman... Have a family with this woman. When she is "herself" she is truly amazing, intelligent, funny, caring, a great mother, considerate, passionate, a "huge heart"...

 

Bottom line is, I can't fix her, hence I need to move on.

 

Things got reinforced again since last night anyway...she is in another country and I checked the voip phone records and what do you know? She has been talking to OM every day. So, she freaked out because she thought she was pregnant and blamed him for everything (and told him to f off), but now that she is not pregnant... all her "realizations" went down the drain. She is also popping pills again.

 

So I am done. It's actually a blessing in disguise. OM being in the picture, makes everything so much easier for me.

 

She is calling me multiple times a day and I just put the kids on the phone/ camera and not talk to her myself. She then texts me and I don't reply. She keeps texting that she misses us so much and is thinking about us all day. I don't get her and I frankly don't want to get her anymore.

 

The plan: I cannot file for divorce at the moment, because I am moving to another county within the same state (about 6 hours away). Once I move, I will have to wait 3 months before I can file for divorce. That's the law. I will however, contact a lawyer / mediator (depending on her reaction to the news I will break to her) and at least get a legal separation going. Even though, my lawyer from last time told me, as long as I have my own place and not living with her, that is a good enough "proof" of separation.

[TaraMaiden]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

She's obviously playing a double-blind....

 

At least it has clarifies things for you.

 

I didn't mean to be overly harsh with you earlier in the thread, but it was clear to all those who COULD see the wood for the trees that this discussion was actually having the counter-effect required.

I think you might simply have been building the fog up...

 

Sadly, I now think you know which way you have to go.....

 

Keep posting.

Support is at hand.

 

remember to let the practicalities of your progress, be guided by your head, and not your heart.....

[aMguilts]

I probably do have that complex. It does describe me pretty well. It's true that I did not mention any of her qualities, because I have not seen those good qualities for a while... or I have seen a glimpse of them for a very short period of time.. So it is hard to focus on those qualities.

 

The only reason I struggled with my decision was because the way I was thinking was flawed in a sense. I was telling myself, IF she gets fixed, she would be the woman of my dreams again... I loved this woman... Have a family with this woman. When she is "herself" she is truly amazing, intelligent, funny, caring, a great mother, considerate, passionate, a "huge heart"...

 

Bottom line is, I can't fix her, hence I need to move on.

 

Things got reinforced again since last night anyway...she is in another country and I checked the voip phone records and what do you know? She has been talking to OM every day. So, she freaked out because she thought she was pregnant and blamed him for everything (and told him to f off), but now that she is not pregnant... all her "realizations" went down the drain. She is also popping pills again.

 

So I am done. It's actually a blessing in disguise. OM being in the picture, makes everything so much easier for me.

 

She is calling me multiple times a day and I just put the kids on the phone/ camera and not talk to her myself. She then texts me and I don't reply. She keeps texting that she misses us so much and is thinking about us all day. I don't get her and I frankly don't want to get her anymore.

 

The plan: I cannot file for divorce at the moment, because I am moving to another county within the same state (about 6 hours away). Once I move, I will have to wait 3 months before I can file for divorce. That's the law. I will however, contact a lawyer / mediator (depending on her reaction to the news I will break to her) and at least get a legal separation going. Even though, my lawyer from last time told me, as long as I have my own place and not living with her, that is a good enough "proof" of separation.

at last

 

you have come clean

Why you couldn`t of said this a few days ago only you know!!

 

you are still making excuses thou. you cant do this or you cant do that for your own reasons i guess

cant wont. should of could of would of

the list goes on

If anything, your marriage isn`t over

it`s there for you to save, if you want too

 

aM

Edited February 26, 2013 by aMguilts

[Jstub]

at last

 

you have come clean

Why you couldn`t of said this a few days ago only you know!!

 

you are still making excuses thou. you cant do this or you cant do that for your own reasons i guess

cant wont. should of could of would of

the list goes on

If anything, your marriage isn`t over

it`s there for you to save, if you want too

 

aM

 

It takes time to realize some things. When I realized it, I "came clean" if you call it that.

 

I don't get how I am making excuses?

 

She is doing a 180 from her behavior of 4 days ago. She is popping pills again, she is talking to OM again. That means, she is planning on pursuing a relationship with him, because she doesn't want to be alone. She is popping pills again, because she thinks, everything is fine now.

 

Save my marriage? How can you save a marriage when the other person is cold as ice, has 0 feelings, is completely selfish and doesn't seem to think anything is wrong with her behavior. I cannot help her, she can only help herself. During that time, I cannot stay on stand by mode, I need to move forward, because for all I know, she is staying this way.

 

She just called the kids and was talking to them, afterwards she insisted on talking to me. During our talk, she mentioned one of her friends telling her that she should consider the circumstances she is in, and that she should not throw away the marriage and jump into something new. Her answer was, our marriage was not working, and that the "new relationship" is independent of that. That we are going to separate anyway.

 

So you see? It's a complete 180. 4 days ago, she wanted to be clean, she was saying "we are not done", "I don't know what I am doing", "I need to fix myself" "I need counseling" "i want to do marriage counseling" "I don't want to be involved with anyone, because I don't want any outside influence"... why should I allow her to play with my feelings like that? Confuse the hell out of me.

 

Bottom line is, whenever she is needy, she comes to me. When her life is falling apart, she comes to me. When she thought she was pregnant, she came to me.

 

Now that, her "security problem is going away" and she is not pregnant, she has no kids to deal with at the moment, she is feeling on top of the world, and she turns around and acts cold. Because, she does not feel like she needs me.

 

It just reinforces that she is not worth it. That she is just a manipulator. That's all.

 

Tell me now, why would I save this marriage?

 

I can guarantee you, once she is back, and reality starts to kick in again, she will probably have a "weak moment" and try to cling to me again. The problem is, her "weak moments" are in reverse. I would understand if her "realizations" stuck and she had a "weak moment" and thought about the alternative, but it's the other way around. Her "realizations" are her weak moment, her normal self is the woman that I don't want, and will not fight for.

[aMguilts]

and i said that 4 days ago

 

do what you got to do

 

aM

[TaraMaiden]

Did you tell her it's over....?

 

Have you revealed to her that you are 'done'....?

[Jstub]

Did you tell her it's over....?

 

Have you revealed to her that you are 'done'....?

 

Not yet. She has to appear in court and I need her to feel on top of the world, that way she can put her show on and not get arrested.