Reconcile down the line or not?

[aMguilts]

Not yet. She has to appear in court and I need her to feel on top of the world, that way she can put her show on and not get arrested.

 

you together or not?

 

why do you feel you have to wait?

 

why do i feel like i`m wasting my time here in even replying??

 

tara... you were right

aM

[Jstub]

you together or not?

 

why do you feel you have to wait?

 

why do i feel like i`m wasting my time here in even replying??

 

tara... you were right

aM

 

mmm, I don't get you sometimes. I don't want to throw her off her "game", because if things go wrong, she can be jailed in another country. She is the mother of my children, I don't need to be "together" with her, to not want her to be in jail. I did not tell her or implied that we are together, or the opposite. I just left it alone. It can wait a few days.

 

You really don't have to waste your time. I appreciate all your input.

[aMguilts]

mmm, I don't get you sometimes. I don't want to throw her off her "game", because if things go wrong, she can be jailed in another country. She is the mother of my children, I don't need to be "together" with her, to not want her to be in jail. I did not tell her or implied that we are together, or the opposite. I just left it alone. It can wait a few days.

 

You really don't have to waste your time. I appreciate all your input.

 

you dont get me??

 

i dont get you

you either want this woman or you dont?

 

and now `jail` is in the equation??!!!

 

you never mentioned that did you?

you know what?

you cant even be honest on here

can you?

i`m out of this thread

aM

[Jstub]

Yes jail time. She will be lying under oath. In return "she gets her life back". If things don't go well and her lie gets busted, she will be arrested and do 1 year. These are the special and screwed up circumstances. She did not do anything wrong to deserve that. Sometimes when you do the right thing, some people don't like that. Don't give me the oh she will be lying in court bs, when you get death threats and people following you, you would do anything to make it stop. The people that can make it stop want something in return. The OM is part of this group. When I said "she went into survival mode" I wasn't trying to sound smart. That is the reality.

[aMguilts]

whatever

you reap what you sow

aM

Edited February 26, 2013 by aMguilts

[aMguilts]

Yes jail time. She will be lying under oath. In return "she gets her life back". If things don't go well and her lie gets busted, she will be arrested and do 1 year. These are the special and screwed up circumstances. She did not do anything wrong to deserve that. Sometimes when you do the right thing, some people don't like that. Don't give me the oh she will be lying in court bs, when you get death threats and people following you, you would do anything to make it stop. The people that can make it stop want something in return. The OM is part of this group. When I said "she went into survival mode" I wasn't trying to sound smart. That is the reality.

 

for the 2nd time i`ll ask you

why do you want this???

 

this is the reality???

 

you can BS on here all you like

i think you 2 are suited

you belong together

aM

[TaraMaiden]

for the 2nd time i`ll ask you

why do you want this???

 

this is the reality???

 

you can BS on here all you like

i think you 2 are suited

you belong together

aM

 

What the hell is your problem??

 

He has decided that he is going to separate from his wife, and eventually seek a divorce because she is building reconciliation, in her mind, on a foundation of lies and deceit.

he is not prepared to tolerate that, and has come to this realisation.

 

YOU'RE the one blowing hot and cold now - I cannot figure you out at all....

What is with you, all of a sudden....?

 

What is with you?

 

Are you on medication, at all?

 

Serious question.

 

You're really not making any sense at all....

[Jstub]

Let me ask you this.

 

Is a whistle blower a good or bad person?

 

Can a whistle blower get into deep trouble (depending on the issue) due to the whistle blowing?

 

I cannot talk about too many details, due to the nature of it all. But the above is a good comparison.

[ver13]

I read your thread I feel that it's the right thing for you two to go your own way. You can't fix anyone but yourself and you already have other interest, just do the right thing for your kids. Who knows what life will bring you in the future but for right now this thing between you and your W ain't working.

[imtooconfused]

Is a whistle blower a good or bad person?

 

Can a whistle blower get into deep trouble (depending on the issue) due to the whistle blowing?

 

A "whistle blower" is a good person if they tell the truth to the best of their ability.

 

They can get in trouble from the law if they do not tell the truth. They can get in trouble from telling the truth from those who do not want the truth to come out. This happened to a friend of mine. This friend had some important information about a major lawsuit that would cost a lot of money and as a result, there were multiple occurrences of physical threats to her life. I thought of this situation while reading some of your earlier posts.

[Jstub]

Here's an update. Every day is full of twists.

 

She called in the morning to talk to the kids. I did not talk to her at all. Just a hello.

 

I was dropping my son to preschool when she texted me if I could please call her, that it was very important.

 

So I did call her and here's what happened.

 

She started by saying, she doesn't know what I am up to, and she would not be surprised at all if I divorced her. After all, she deserves that, as she has mistreated me and disrespected me in unimaginable ways. She then said, before she tells me what she wants to tell me, she broke it off with OM (this is to imply that she is not keeping him as option B). I of course had to verify this information and I accessed the time and content of the message. Basically, she told the OM that it is over between them and that she has strong feelings towards me, and that she is ashamed of causing me so much pain and disrespect. She also told him that she will no longer contact him and that he should not attempt to contact her. That whatever happened was a huge mistake on her side.

 

She does not know that I have access to this information and what she told me, as far as time and content matched up to the actual information at hand.

 

She then continued by repeating all her realizations. About her behavior, drug use, not facing her past, trying to jump into something because she doesn't want to face reality, how she needs professional help.

 

She added that being away from me made her realize many things. That she is not over me at all, that she constantly is thinking of me. How lucky she is to have a husband like me, how I helped her when she deserved to be kicked to the curb. She is devastated that she had to stray so much to realize what she already should have known in the first place. That she is so terribly sorry for what she put me through. That she is sorry for not trying her best during our reconciliation attempt, that she will never forgive herself if she didn't fight for me and our family.

 

She said, she is willing to do anything for me, go to any distance just to have 1 last chance to set things straight between us. That she is prepared to give it all. She said, she would give me all the space I need to decide what I want, that during that time, she would just work on improving herself and she would stay away from being involved with anyone. She kept repeating on how sorry she was for hurting me the way that she did.

 

I told her that I am tired of this push / pull game she is playing, that I am not ready to put myself in a position to be hurt again. That I do not trust her one bit and I have heard all these words before, but her actions have been the exact opposite. --- she interrupted me by saying, "You will see actions, I will prove it to you one step at a time, just please give me one last chance" I told her, I have no faith in us anymore, and that 5 days ago, she told me almost the exact same thing and she went and started talking to OM again and popping pills again. She said, initially when she started talking to OM again, was just because he wanted to follow up on the pregnancy/ abortion, but then it became "casual talk", and soon after that she realized, it was turning inappropriate again, and exactly what she didn't want. She apologized again and repeated how ashamed she is for needing such extreme circumstance to realize what she should have known all along. I told her, at this point, I am not interested on working on this marriage, and that she should just focus on getting help for herself and becoming a better person for herself.

 

I also told her, I do not blame her for the demise of this marriage, that I had a 50% part in the demise, but her actions to go out of this marriage once again are unacceptable behavior and I will not put up with it, no matter what the circumstance.

 

She started crying etc and said she is not ready to be separated from me, and that the kids need us both... but that she understands me and can't blame me, but she will fight for me and will prove to me that she is the same woman I married...

 

Why does it have to be so complicated................ I will stand my ground, I know that much. I just wonder...

Edited February 28, 2013 by Jstub

[TaraMaiden]

You need to look up statistics on couples re-uniting after divorce.

The ratio is apparently quite high.

 

But I would say couples have reunited after divorce because of change and evolution.

 

Stick with your game plan.

If she believes by tearing up, pleading and urging, she can get you to retreat - then yes.

It will be simply more of the same, old same-old lather-rinse-repeat.

 

Go through with it.

 

And tell her - this is now giving her an opportunity to really focus and concentrate on what she has to do to get her life in order.

She should take that opportunity to make the best of herself, improve and emerge a better, wiser, more complete and grounded person.

 

She has this chance: She can either wilt and give up, or grab it and go for it.

 

She can prove to herself, to you and to others, that faced with crisis, she can turn it into triumph.

 

Actions will tell you whether she really wants to do this.

You will by necessity, still be in touch with her, because of the children.

So you need to keep contact focused solely on making sure they're well, balanced and as undisturbed as it's possible to engineer, through this.

YOU - take control of you.

Remember what I said about not letting heart rule practical matters....

 

Be business-like, and concentrate.

By all means, be emotional, but in a guarded and private way. Bring it here.

With her, be practical.

Not cold, but just tell it like it is.

 

Show her the consequences.

Carry them through.

Then watch, wait and see what she does.

 

Money? Mouth?

 

Let's see......

[ver13]

The above advice is the best that I have read so far TaraMaiden's insight on the issues at hand is really sound think about it.

[knitwit]

Hi Jstub,

 

I had a long-term relationship with someone who about half-way in developed an addiction to painkillers/opiates. I loved him tremendously and tried for years to stick with him as he cycled in and out of sobriety/clean time.

 

I have gone to hundreds of meetings, and met with top-notch addiction experts (I am in the field of medical research and at the time of that relationship, I was working in one of the most highly-respected university hospitals in the world, had great access to some very smart people working in addiction). I posted/read in on-line forums, read books, did anything possible to learn as much as possible about addiction and how to cope with it.

 

I wanted to put out a different perspective that is centered on her addiction. I am not a doctor or an addiction specialist- all this is my opinion only, based on what I learned via my own experience with addiction.

 

If she is a true addict- the addiction trumps everything and it must come first. If she is using, it WILL come first. That is the behavioral marker of an addict. If it didn't come first, she wouldn't be one.

 

If she gets sober, she will always need to tend to the addiction before anything else. What this means is: if she loses her job, if your daughter is a serious accident, if you find out you have cancer, her first priority is going to have to be for her to do whatever she needs to do to ensure she doesn't use. She is going to have to take a "time out" and will not be able to be the first-line responder, so to speak.

 

You guys have kids together. Because of this, her addiction is going to affect you for years. Married or divorced, you are going to have to be the primary rock for your kids, and you are going to need to be on guard and ready to make a move, even when she is sober. This is not to encourage you or discourage you from staying/leaving the marriage- it is just to point out that regardless of your decision, to protect and guide your kids, you will always need to keep an eye out on the status of her sobriety.

 

To stay in a "safe" relationship with an addict, it was recommended to me:

- have housing in my name only

- be in charge of all finances; the addicted one should have his/her own account for spending $ but should not have access to the primary funds

- each of you should have a car in his/her own name, and his/her own car insurance.

-pay extra premiums to have good mental health insurance, including rehab

-attend Naranon meetings or other support group meeting (this is important!)

 

The very best advice I could give you is to find a Naranon meeting somewhere near you. If you live in an area without Naranon meetings, look for Alanon. The ways to cope and not let a loved one's addiction destroy you (general you) are very different from the ways of a normal, healthy relationship. Some meetings are b#tch-fests about the addict, but the good ones actually teach how to detach with love, and how to maintain the love for the person while protecting oneself from the addict.

 

Know that often, people have to be dragged to meetings at first. But honestly, they are life-savers. Go to a few. Find a good one. They will help you find peace and stability in a chaotic and unstable situation.

 

Let me put one more plug in for meetings. My DH's first marriage ended b/c his wife got addicted to meth. She had at least one affair while married to him that he knows of and he suspects there were more. He tried everything he knew for the marriage and for his step-daughter, but meeting were not included. I don't think he even knew about meetings for the loved ones, only meetings for the addicted ones. His in-laws actually blamed him and he accepted that blame. He felt that he didn't keep her happy, and if she was happy, she would not have been out doing drugs and seeing other men.

 

At the end of his marriage, he ended up homeless, desperate, suicidal. He still carries anger towards his ex.

 

I was very lucky that my in-laws-to-be dragged me to a meeting. Several times, actually. I was focused on what I could do for him, and in my mind I didn't want to "waste my time" at a Naranon meeting. However, I came quickly to realize that actually the best thing I could do for him, as well as for myself, was to go to the meetings. They helped me separate the addict behaviors and still love the man inside.

 

I had a much, much less harmful experience with my addict than my husband did with his. I attribute this to my "in-laws" and my Naranon group. I was able to circumvent a LOT of what my husband went through, thanks to the Naranon group who clued me in on what I could expect and how I could protect myself. I do not carry anger toward my ex, in fact, I still have a lot of love for him.

 

Your children will always love their mom. If they are old enough, the meetings will help them balance that out, and not feel twisted and confused about it. They will help you and your kids develop healthy boundaries with the addicted one. They have meetings especially for kids.

 

At the beginning of this post, I wrote "If she is true addict"; it is my personal belief that drug use falls in a spectrum, and the spectrum varies by substance. There are a lot of people who drink, and of those people, many drink excessively, but not all of them have crossed the line into addiction.

 

There are a lot of people who have used heroin, but not many have used it excessively without crossing the line into addiction.

 

I don't know what kind of pain pills your wife is addicted to, but I can tell you that my ex started with Oxycotin and moved onto heroin. We lived in a city with a huge drug problem, and it was very easy for him to find heroin when his prescriptions of Oxy ran out (he started out with legal scripts.)

 

I know of people who battled painkiller problems, who didn't move into the hard-core injected opiates, and managed to avoid the incredible black hole that is full-blow addiction. Of course, others fell in.

 

But, if your wife is on the line or over the line, I strongly, strongly, strongly urge you to start reading, get to a few meetings, find out everything you can about addiction. It is progressive. It will get worse, much much much worse.

 

You will find that you can't cure her addiction, you didn't cause it, and you can't control it- but you can change the situations, where you are involved, that enables the addiction to continue.

 

Your ability to control your environment and, as much as possible, the environment for your children is going to be a leading factor in their development. If she is an addict, it is up to you to protect them. They are not going to get stability with her. They are going to be bewildered, ashamed, hurt, rejected, devastated. You are going to be their wall and their rock. So learn as much as you can, get the support you need, talk to people who have "been there, done that" so you can get the survival tools you will need and you can limit the damage.

 

I have to say that a few things you've said make me thing she is on or over the line into true addiction. Namely, you see a change in her personality (I absolutely saw a change in my guy); she is using as a coping skill; she is using despite the harm it is causing; you are seeing her really terrible choices occur at the same time that she is using (e.g., she is not making crap decisions all the time and using is only one of them that occurs in spurts).

 

From my perspective it looks like the affairs are a symptom of the painkiller use, but as you can see, I tend to be addiction-focused. Still, I think it is very safe to say that your relationship with your wife will never improve as long as she is abusing painkillers. It is a necessary (although not sufficient) requirement.

 

A divorce would automatically get you all the items on my "Safe" list. Since your wife is currently struggling, you might also get primary custody of your children. You can re-marry with a pre-nup. Or, you can agree to stay married but only with a post-nup, which would indicate that you get primary custody. I would definitely follow everything on the "Safe" list if you stay together.

 

I want to end with this: despite all the pain and destruction that active addiction brings, recovery brings peace, stability, and happiness. I met a lot of people in active recovery with my ex. He achieved several periods of sobriety and I went to many meetings with him, plus hung out with him in his recovery house. The mentors and sponsors, people with long-term sobriety who really worked their programs, were awesome people. Honest, genuine, humble, funny. They were not prideful. They were open-minded and caring.

 

Again, this is all my opinion only (obviously!) YMMV. Best of luck to you!

[Jstub]

knitwit. Thank you for the resourceful and thoughtful response. I really appreciate you taking the time to put together such a post! It is not only helpful to me, but I hope other readers will benefit from it as well. I know I am not alone with an addicted "partner".

[Jstub]

And there we go again! 24 hours and a complete 180 again!

 

Her words as far as I recall: I meant every word I said to you yesterday, but I am confused. Today I woke up and I thought, if things were fine between us, then why would I be cheating on you? When was the last time that I seduced you, because I wanted you? It's been a long time. Why did I cheat on you last year? Why was I looking for something that I was missing? Why have I been longing to be separated from you? Why do I feel sad that I ended it with OM?

 

My response: From now on, keep your thoughts to yourself. Go figure yourself out/ fix yourself/ be happy we are done. Have a good evening.

 

Interruption: But I am confused, I am not sure if i want to throw this away.

 

Me: You already threw it away long time ago. We are done.

 

Her: but I want to bring myself back to loving you.

 

Me: smile don't you see the flaw in what you just said? I have to go now, have work to do.

 

Her: but... i still need to think... I don't know how we can fix this with everything that's happened. I would do anything to fix it.

 

Me: Stop trying to fix things and confuse yourself and everybody around you. Just go figure yourself out, and leave me out of it, because I will not put up with your moods. I know what I want and what I don't want. I have my goals and boundaries. Your talk yesterday or your talk today don't make a difference to me, because your actions are loud and clear.

 

I said i gotta go again and hung up this time. She kept calling and calling but I never answered.

 

On another note, the woman that I was seeing, confessed to me that she is very interested in pursuing a relationship with me. That she sees me as a rare find and she is having a really hard time not thinking about me all day. I told her, I will stop contacting her, because I don't want to hurt her, that I am just trouble for her life at the moment. She doesn't like that at all and she is putting up a fight... she is fighting for me..... makes me think... as bad as I feel for her... Here is this woman, who thinks I am 1 in a million, who actually listens to what I tell her, has something nice to say... she wants ME and then I got the other side, my wife... heh.. I don't even have to go there, wasn't she supposed to be fighting for me????

[5050rights-org]

Im against divorce...but with that said: Run Like Hell!

 

IF she gets better on her own years down the road, and you see each other on the street, etc---then fine. But I would get out of a bad situation. go be happy without the craziness and back and forth. To me borderline personality disordered (or ones who seem to have those behaviors) people are not worth investing your heart in.

[TaraMaiden]

5050rights-org, so far to date, you've posted 3 times.

In 2 of those posts, you've stated you're 'against divorce' yet in both posts, you agree it's the right thing to do.

You yourself are divorced.

 

Sorry, but, you can't be against divorce.

You may not like the idea of it being a relatively simple process, and how quickly some people decide on it - but you can't really state you're 'against it'.

 

[Jstub]

5050rights-org, so far to date, you've posted 3 times.

In 2 of those posts, you've stated you're 'against divorce' yet in both posts, you agree it's the right thing to do.

You yourself are divorced.

 

Sorry, but, you can't be against divorce.

You may not like the idea of it being a relatively simple process, and how quickly some people decide on it - but you can't really state you're 'against it'.

 

 

Tara does her homework

[carhill]

Reconcile down the line or not?

 

Perhaps; live in the now, today. Dissolving the marriage, if it's a priority, can be effected as quickly as the choices you make. IMO, other than directing your estranged wife to the children for communication with them, refrain from communicating with her at all. Those words are vaporware; nothing. Carbon dioxide. Her actions are the truth. Accept it.

 

Should her actions and words match consistently and in a synergistic and healthy way at some point in the future, and if you/she are available, reconciliation can be one path. Deal with that then. Today is now. Good luck.

[Jstub]

A small update.

 

She did not get arrested. She is off the hook.

 

She is talking to OM again.

 

She will be back tomorrow. I will just be business like. I have to go on a business trip next week so that should also be good.

[aMguilts]

A small update.

 

She did not get arrested. She is off the hook.

 

She is talking to OM again.

 

She will be back tomorrow. I will just be business like. I have to go on a business trip next week so that should also be good.

 

for who? you or her?

 

there are so many threads on here just like yours

your a male

it`s fight or flight time now

aM

[aMguilts]

A small update.

 

She did not get arrested. She is off the hook.

 

She is talking to OM again.

 

She will be back tomorrow. I will just be business like. I have to go on a business trip next week so that should also be good.

 

she

 

she

 

she

 

what are YOU doing?

i don`t wanna hear about her

i wanna hear about you

 

aM

[Jstub]

The business trip is going to be great for ME.

 

I am doing pretty good actually. The week that she was gone was really helpful to see things clearly. I will not fight for this woman, so it's "flight" for me. She is not worth it. Back and forth etc, not feeling it.

 

I'll be looking for places while on the business trip as well, so I am looking forward to that (that's the destination of my move). Plus all my friends are there. It's going to be great! For me me me!

[Jstub]

Found out that OM is married and has 3 children that he ignores. I am more and more disgusted by my wife. He doesn't give 2 ****s about his own children and plans to do stuff with my children, because "as long as the children are not his, he doesn't have a problem with kids". Just the thought that my wife would be involved with such a man is dazzling and highly disappointing.

 

When I saw her, I realized that my love for her is not there anymore. I was really shocked/ relieved at the same time.

 

I also spent the night with that woman again... We were in deep conversations for a few hours, again no sex but that wasn't the point anyway. I hugged her and she put her head on my shoulder and I felt something I haven't felt for a long time. I felt so at ease. So understood. Her and I both know this is not going anywhere, but just to feel that way, makes me realize, I am sick of this mediocre crap with my wife, I want more in my life and when I am in a good place, I want a woman that treats me right. That actually sees "value" in me and respects me.

 

Nothing new, my decision just gets reinforced more and more every day. I know I am doing the right thing.