Dating a 35 year old virgin

[SJC2008]

There's a reason for everything so if OP got to know her mabye he'd find out and it may be something they can work around. I'm in the same boat and I fee I'll never meet a woman who will look past my past. I was VERY shy and got hurt before and subconsciously avoided women/dating because I didn't want to get hurt or moreso hurt someone else. I'm past that and want to put myself out there and meet a good woman. I want a real relationship with trust and intimacy because those things ate the foundation of a healthy relationship. What I'm getting at is that there IS a reason for where I am but it's not where I am NOW. And if nobody will look past that and see that I'm a good man then I guess I'll just have to die alone.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Emotional baggage?

 

Perhaps but that can be fixed with having more confidence and loving myself.

 

Kids? Multiple divorces?

 

Not so much. No matter how much you want to ignore it, it is there and you have to come to terms with it. Esp. if the kids is so young that he may need you to play the role of stepmother.

 

Please do explain more. I'm so willing to learn.

 

Emotional baggage is not that easy to fix. Plus not all people that had normal sexual life have kids or divorces.

 

Inexperience in both sex and relationships is hard to overcome. You will have no idea how to handle conflict, compromise, manage your own emotions etc etc Those are things very few people innately know how to do. So your first relationship is likely to be a learning experience and thus unlikely to last.

 

Most people in their 30s do not want the burden of teaching someone sexually or emotionally. There is nothing enjoyable about that.

[jackson78]

Wasn't expecting so many replies... I met with her for lunch and this is what I got from her... If I can remember everything.

 

She had her first BF (10 months) when she was 16. He wanted to have sex, she was too self-conscious about her body because even though she wasn't fat his ex's were thinner and she was nervous about having sex and not knowing what to do. She also wasn't very attracted to him but liked his personality. He broke up with her because he wanted sex and cheated on her.

 

She had her second BF (1.5 years) when she was 19 and the guy was 24. He had sex with 10 (I think) women prior to meeting her. At first she was self-conscious that she wouldn't be as good or as attractive naked, because again his ex's were thinner (she mentioned the last one being anorexic, so very thin). She didn't want things to progress to sex so she didn't want any touching. After a year she matured and got over that but decided (and he agreed) that she wanted to wait until marriage to have sex (and touching). Not for religious reasons but personal preferences. They talked seriously about marriage and engagement. She thought she was too young to get married but they almost got engaged at the end of the relationship (he had a ring). He met someone else at the end of the relationship, cheated then broke up with her. She took a few years off dating.

 

She dated from her mid 20's until now but hasn't had a relationship. She said during her 20's she couldn't find someone she felt good about or that was okay with waiting until marriage. She was also really busy with university/residency and didn't have a lot of time to give which men didn't like. And during her 30's she hasn't been able to find someone she likes who is okay with her being a virgin and not wanting to give sex up right away. She doesn't know if she is still waiting for marriage, but does know that she won't give it up before she's in a relationship and in love.

 

She said she doesn't like to kiss someone until she feels they are serious about her, because if they can't wait for a kiss they won't be able to wait for sex and she doesn't want to go around kissing people who won't stick around. I asked when she thought she would let me kiss her and she just said "when it feels right".

 

But I still feel like there is something missing. She flinches a lot when my hand or arm goes around her face. She says she is just a flinchy person. The first two dates she acted as if I had the plague. If I got too close, she'd move away. If I tried to hold her hand, she'd quickly pull it away. I put my hand on her back and she quickly moved forward. But she says she was just a bit nervous, for no reason. There has to be a reason...

 

My fear, we get into a relationship end up having sex, she thinks it's a big deal, later on we break up then she's a huge mess.

[Drseussgrrl]

"But I still feel like there is something missing. She flinches a lot when my hand or arm goes around her face. She says she is just a flinchy person. The first two dates she acted as if I had the plague. If I got too close, she'd move away. If I tried to hold her hand, she'd quickly pull it away. I put my hand on her back and she quickly moved forward. But she says she was just a bit nervous, for no reason. There has to be a reason..."

 

Sorry but that just sounds awful. I would die if someone I dated recoiled at my touch.

 

Cut your losses. There is no true intimacy here for you.

[ThaWholigan]

I will add something:

 

I don't expect inexperienced people to be "given chances" if someone is not feeling that person for whatever reason. But at the same time, I do not feel that it is right to automatically labelled as weird or something wrong with them.

[jackson78]

She doesn't mind when I touch her now (hold hands, put my arm around her, etc) it was just the first 2 dates. But she still finches a lot but keeps saying she is just a flinchy person.

[Drseussgrrl]

She doesn't mind when I touch her now (hold hands, put my arm around her, etc) it was just the first 2 dates. But she still finches a lot but keeps saying she is just a flinchy person.

 

Our posts crossed. So - you're going to keep seeing her then?

[ThaWholigan]

She doesn't mind when I touch her now (hold hands, put my arm around her, etc) it was just the first 2 dates. But she still finches a lot but keeps saying she is just a flinchy person.

That is kinda weird. I am hypertactile (autism) so I am a flinchy person too, but I have an excuse . How long do you expect this to go on? If it is too much for you and appears as an incompatibility, then I would second Drseussgrrl and suggest you look elsewhere.

 

Try to understand why she is flinchy or something.

[serial muse]

I will add something:

 

I don't expect inexperienced people to be "given chances" if someone is not feeling that person for whatever reason. But at the same time, I do not feel that it is right to automatically labelled as weird or something wrong with them.

 

Oh, this, so much. Thank you for being the voice of calm here.

 

I totally agree with the earlier posts that people have a right to whatever dealbreakers they want. I wouldn't ever argue with that. But the demonizing in the abstract -- we know very little about this woman, but we're assuming an awful lot about what's wrong with her -- is pretty crappy.

 

I feel particularly sad about this because I have a close friend in this boat, and yes, she's got her baggage - largely related to the fact that she's still a virgin in her late 30s and it's become a self-sustaining phenomenon, for reasons clearly outlined in this thread. But she's not gay, or psychotic, and she wasn't abused as a child. It just didn't happen, and didn't happen, and she was shy, and opportunities just didn't pan out, and now she's incredibly self-conscious about still being a virgin at her age, like all the dudes who post the same thing on here, and that's the primary object in the way at this point.

 

I'm not saying she doesn't have issues. Sex is everywhere in society, and being an outlier in this way certainly makes her feel weird and, well, like an outsider. It eats at her. So she does have her baggage. But then, there's other baggage that she doesn't have - bitterness about men, divorce, children (if one thinks of them as baggage, which I know some people do).

 

I'm just saying, knowing one's own dealbreakers is a valuable thing, and it's perfectly reasonable to feel like it's too much pressure to be somebody's first, for any number of reasons. That's cool! Nobody OWES anyone anything here. But is it really necessary to go off on someone we don't know and nod knowingly to one another that this lady has just gotta be a whackadoodle?

 

I know this happens all the time; it's LS crack, and I wasn't going to jump in until I read this post. But when someone comes in, like ThaWholigan here, and opens a window to let in the fresh air of rationality - man, it smells sooo good. Can't we all just take a deep breath and back off a bit on the smug judgment?

 

I guess I just feel sad for my friend, who I've considered sending over here for advice. Not that some of you aren't perfectly lovely.

[ascendotum]

But I still feel like there is something missing. She flinches a lot when my hand or arm goes around her face. She says she is just a flinchy person. The first two dates she acted as if I had the plague. If I got too close, she'd move away. If I tried to hold her hand, she'd quickly pull it away. I put my hand on her back and she quickly moved forward. But she says she was just a bit nervous, for no reason. There has to be a reason...

 

The longer she has waited the more strange it will be for her to have a guy put his arm around her waist. Its become a hung-up, and so will unbridled sex for quite some time (maybe never)

Her reaction to you does help explain why her celibacy has snowballed through her 30s. This behavior combined with her admission would be enough to have quite a few potential men moving on to other prospects. Even discounting the back story, a lot of guys will just read it as 'she's not into me' and forget her. I would unless she reassured me she just a little nervous and she really liked me.

The snowball effect would undoubtedly happen to older male virgins to.

Edited February 25, 2013 by ascendotum

[Robert]

Let's start fresh, I deleted most of the posts after the thread starter recently posted, I would add that many of you were so wrapped up in your thread jack that his post went unanswered.

 

Please address the thread threaders concerns only or just accept the infraction that will come from being off topic if you chose to post that way.

 

Thanks

[DarlinBelle]

Wasn't expecting so many replies... I met with her for lunch and this is what I got from her... If I can remember everything.

 

She had her first BF (10 months) when she was 16. He wanted to have sex, she was too self-conscious about her body because even though she wasn't fat his ex's were thinner and she was nervous about having sex and not knowing what to do. She also wasn't very attracted to him but liked his personality. He broke up with her because he wanted sex and cheated on her.

 

She had her second BF (1.5 years) when she was 19 and the guy was 24. He had sex with 10 (I think) women prior to meeting her. At first she was self-conscious that she wouldn't be as good or as attractive naked, because again his ex's were thinner (she mentioned the last one being anorexic, so very thin). She didn't want things to progress to sex so she didn't want any touching. After a year she matured and got over that but decided (and he agreed) that she wanted to wait until marriage to have sex (and touching). Not for religious reasons but personal preferences. They talked seriously about marriage and engagement. She thought she was too young to get married but they almost got engaged at the end of the relationship (he had a ring). He met someone else at the end of the relationship, cheated then broke up with her. She took a few years off dating.

 

She dated from her mid 20's until now but hasn't had a relationship. She said during her 20's she couldn't find someone she felt good about or that was okay with waiting until marriage. She was also really busy with university/residency and didn't have a lot of time to give which men didn't like. And during her 30's she hasn't been able to find someone she likes who is okay with her being a virgin and not wanting to give sex up right away. She doesn't know if she is still waiting for marriage, but does know that she won't give it up before she's in a relationship and in love.

 

She said she doesn't like to kiss someone until she feels they are serious about her, because if they can't wait for a kiss they won't be able to wait for sex and she doesn't want to go around kissing people who won't stick around. I asked when she thought she would let me kiss her and she just said "when it feels right".

 

But I still feel like there is something missing. She flinches a lot when my hand or arm goes around her face. She says she is just a flinchy person. The first two dates she acted as if I had the plague. If I got too close, she'd move away. If I tried to hold her hand, she'd quickly pull it away. I put my hand on her back and she quickly moved forward. But she says she was just a bit nervous, for no reason. There has to be a reason...

 

My fear, we get into a relationship end up having sex, she thinks it's a big deal, later on we break up then she's a huge mess.

 

You're obviously not looking for something longterm, your concern is more of the if and when you can have sex with her. She obviously wants a longterm, serious relationship. Also, you're moving too fast for her; she has told you that she does not kiss right away and that "she doesn't want to go around kissing people who won't stick around." You ask when she will allow you to kiss her even after she has told you this. "When it feels right" means she wants a man who will be patient and take time to slowly build a relationship, a commitment and trust. This does not happen on a few dates. She wants intimacy before sex, before kissing. She wants to feel valued. You are moving too fast for her and much slower than you are used to. She is moving away from your caresses because it is much too soon- from her standpoint.

[DarlinBelle]

"My fear, we get into a relationship end up having sex, she thinks it's a big deal, later on we break up then she's a huge mess."

 

You may also want to tell her that you don't think sex is as big a deal as she does.

[mn311601]

I didn't read all 14 pages, but I'll tell you one thing it is easier being a female virgin later in life than a male. Any woman not disfigured can lose her virginity at anytime, be a guy over 25 and a virgin not so much.

[kaylan]

You're obviously not looking for something longterm, your concern is more of the if and when you can have sex with her. She obviously wants a longterm, serious relationship. Also, you're moving too fast for her; she has told you that she does not kiss right away and that "she doesn't want to go around kissing people who won't stick around." You ask when she will allow you to kiss her even after she has told you this. "When it feels right" means she wants a man who will be patient and take time to slowly build a relationship, a commitment and trust. This does not happen on a few dates. She wants intimacy before sex, before kissing. She wants to feel valued. You are moving too fast for her and much slower than you are used to. She is moving away from your caresses because it is much too soon- from her standpoint.

Sexual compatibility and being able to navigate a partnership as a mature adult are both important parts of an LTR. OP has valid concerns with whether theres compatibility in either area with him and this woman.

 

I dont think he should waste his time if she needs him to move at snails pace. This is a woman who didnt have sex in an 18 month relationship. How long before he can kiss and carress her without her recoiling? Its already been 4 or 5 dates. No bueno in my eyes.

[Emilia]

 

After a year she matured and got over that but decided (and he agreed) that she wanted to wait until marriage to have sex (and touching). Not for religious reasons but personal preferences. They talked seriously about marriage and engagement. She thought she was too young to get married but they almost got engaged at the end of the relationship (he had a ring). He met someone else at the end of the relationship, cheated then broke up with her. She took a few years off dating.

 

She dated from her mid 20's until now but hasn't had a relationship. She said during her 20's she couldn't find someone she felt good about or that was okay with waiting until marriage. She was also really busy with university/residency and didn't have a lot of time to give which men didn't like. And during her 30's she hasn't been able to find someone she likes who is okay with her being a virgin and not wanting to give sex up right away. She doesn't know if she is still waiting for marriage, but does know that she won't give it up before she's in a relationship and in love.

 

She said she doesn't like to kiss someone until she feels they are serious about her, because if they can't wait for a kiss they won't be able to wait for sex and she doesn't want to go around kissing people who won't stick around. I asked when she thought she would let me kiss her and she just said "when it feels right".

 

But I still feel like there is something missing. She flinches a lot when my hand or arm goes around her face. She says she is just a flinchy person. The first two dates she acted as if I had the plague. If I got too close, she'd move away. If I tried to hold her hand, she'd quickly pull it away. I put my hand on her back and she quickly moved forward. But she says she was just a bit nervous, for no reason. There has to be a reason...

 

My fear, we get into a relationship end up having sex, she thinks it's a big deal, later on we break up then she's a huge mess.

 

I don't know whether she was sexually abused as a child or something (not to jump to huge conclusions) but from the bolded it's clear that she has major intimacy issues.

 

I for one would be extremely uncomfortable spending time with someone who flinched every time I tried to touch them. She struggles with physical intimacy, I don't understand why you are sticking around. She would be a huge mess if you had sex with her yes, I'm guessing she would quite possibly cut it off as well as she wouldn't be comfortable with it

[Woggle]

I don't see what is so wrong about the woman the OP is describing. It's not for me but I find it funny how we live in such sexually open minded times except for being a virgin who are treated like some kind of freaks.

 

Yes she might not have a whole lot of experience but often those with a lot of experience are jaded, bitter and have tons of walls up that are damn near impossible to break through. What is the lesser of two evils is another argument.

[Robert]

45 off topic posts deleted since my last post in this thread.

 

Please post to the thread starters concerns and not your own.

 

Thanks

[Els]

She had her second BF (1.5 years) when she was 19 and the guy was 24. He had sex with 10 (I think) women prior to meeting her. At first she was self-conscious that she wouldn't be as good or as attractive naked, because again his ex's were thinner (she mentioned the last one being anorexic, so very thin). She didn't want things to progress to sex so she didn't want any touching. After a year she matured and got over that but decided (and he agreed) that she wanted to wait until marriage to have sex (and touching). Not for religious reasons but personal preferences. They talked seriously about marriage and engagement. She thought she was too young to get married but they almost got engaged at the end of the relationship (he had a ring). He met someone else at the end of the relationship, cheated then broke up with her. She took a few years off dating.

 

She dated from her mid 20's until now but hasn't had a relationship. She said during her 20's she couldn't find someone she felt good about or that was okay with waiting until marriage. She was also really busy with university/residency and didn't have a lot of time to give which men didn't like. And during her 30's she hasn't been able to find someone she likes who is okay with her being a virgin and not wanting to give sex up right away. She doesn't know if she is still waiting for marriage, but does know that she won't give it up before she's in a relationship and in love.

 

Ah, okay, I missed this in all the firefighting. I think her history makes sense, especially given her career choice - residents don't generally have much time on their hands, and residency lasts a long time. Also, some people really do want to wait for marriage to have any sort of sex, and while I personally prefer a more mid-road approach, I don't think it necessarily signals anything wrong with them per se. Incompatible with many people, yes, but not necessarily wrong.

 

She said she doesn't like to kiss someone until she feels they are serious about her, because if they can't wait for a kiss they won't be able to wait for sex and she doesn't want to go around kissing people who won't stick around. I asked when she thought she would let me kiss her and she just said "when it feels right".

 

But I still feel like there is something missing. She flinches a lot when my hand or arm goes around her face. She says she is just a flinchy person. The first two dates she acted as if I had the plague. If I got too close, she'd move away. If I tried to hold her hand, she'd quickly pull it away. I put my hand on her back and she quickly moved forward. But she says she was just a bit nervous, for no reason. There has to be a reason...

 

Well, she just gave you the reason above. She wants to wait for a relationship before she gets touchy-feely. And both of you aren't in a R now, so she doesn't feel comfortable getting physical with you.

 

My fear, we get into a relationship end up having sex, she thinks it's a big deal, later on we break up then she's a huge mess.

 

This is a very valid concern. IMO she would be more compatible with someone who views sex in roughly the same way that she does. If you're not willing to hold off on the sex til much later (and slowly build up the kissing etc after you're in a R), then perhaps best to let her go. If you're willing, I don't see why not try.

[Emilia]

 

Well, she just gave you the reason above. She wants to wait for a relationship before she gets touchy-feely. And both of you aren't in a R now, so she doesn't feel comfortable getting physical with you.

 

You don't think that someone who recoils from being touched is some kind of a flag though? I wouldn't be comfortable with talking to someone who flinched when I touched their forearm while making conversation. I don't think it's overtly tactile to be comfortable with the human touch. I also think it's an important way to build rapport with someone. Sitting opposite someone without any form of intimacy for months on end is daunting - and I'm not talking drunken fondling, simply something that would happen even in a work environment.

[Emilia]

I don't see what is so wrong about the woman the OP is describing. It's not for me but I find it funny how we live in such sexually open minded times except for being a virgin who are treated like some kind of freaks.

 

Yes she might not have a whole lot of experience but often those with a lot of experience are jaded, bitter and have tons of walls up that are damn near impossible to break through. What is the lesser of two evils is another argument.

 

It's not that she doesn't have experience, it's that she doesn't appear to like intimacy in any shape or form from the posts by the OP. I use the term 'intimacy' very loosely, not specifically sexual. To me talking to my friend last Friday when he bowed his head because he was very upset about an argument and my touching his hair and kissing him on the cheek to console him was intimacy. It's about being human and warm and loving and caring.

 

I think both not liking touch and having walls up due to lots of negative experience are as bad as each other.

[Els]

You don't think that someone who recoils from being touched is some kind of a flag though? I wouldn't be comfortable with talking to someone who flinched when I touched their forearm while making conversation. I don't think it's overtly tactile to be comfortable with the human touch. I also think it's an important way to build rapport with someone. Sitting opposite someone without any form of intimacy for months on end is daunting - and I'm not talking drunken fondling, simply something that would happen even in a work environment.

 

Hmm, I suppose if she flinches anytime someone touches her in any way, it could be true. I'm not really sure what 'when my hand or arm goes around her face' means, to be honest, do people usually put arms around faces? Then again she was in a R for 1.5 years, so I'd presume it would not have lasted that long if she was constantly flinching from her bf's touch all the time.

 

My guess is she sees certain types of touch as an intimate thing, so she isn't comfortable with a guy who isn't her bf making them. Some very conservative people are comfortable touching their spouse, family members, or women who are close to them, but not men whom they just start dating.

 

Then again I could be wrong and she might just have issues with touch in general. Hard to know from this.

[Emilia]

Then again she was in a R for 1.5 years, so I'd presume it would not have lasted that long if she was constantly flinching from her bf's touch all the time.

 

I suppose I didn't read much into that because I think that everyone's definition of relationship is different.

[Els]

I suppose I didn't read much into that because I think that everyone's definition of relationship is different.

 

True. I was just speaking from my own observation, because in the culture I grew up in, it's perfectly normal to wait for marriage to have sex. But most couples do hold hands and kiss and such, just usually after a few months or so. After a few dates is a bit soon-ish for people who are that conservative.

[StanMusial]

You should pass on this one.

 

Find a higher mileage model and do your thing.