we spoke.

[promises]

I spoke to the xMM. It was good in terms of my strength and resolve and the information shared. I felt pretty numb through the whole conversation and he explained a few things.

 

I also haven't totally processed what just happened. We actually talked and I don't necessarily feel badly about that. I got to speak my mind and I heard his situation.

 

I guess I don't know what else to say aside from this was unexpected and he got my number and called. I wasn't the same girl that was love struck and waited on his every word. I said my piece and it was a fairly polite conversation... considering. Considering all of the anger and hostility that has been.

 

I just needed to share the update.

[stevie_23]

Was this intended (by you) to be the FINAL end to this?

 

If so, then please take this positive feeling as a confirmation and opportunity to really, properly move on without those unresolved, angry issues and loose threads of before.

[promises]

Was this intended (by you) to be the FINAL end to this?

 

If so, then please take this positive feeling as a confirmation and opportunity to really, properly move on without those unresolved, angry issues and loose threads of before.

 

I feel like I got some needed clarity on feelings and assumptions that had been made. I have a much better understanding of his situation and feel as though he did sincerely care for me yet, I have no doubt that he is where he should be.

 

However, I do think that he is very confused about some things and is upset about his wifes illness. I also explained my boundary with him and this and it is a clear boundary. We are not crossing.

 

It felt like closure. An odd closure, but, closure. For me, it did.

 

I am not proud of what I did, but I sure as hell will not be doing it again. That pain is indescribable. There is no positive outcome for me.

[stevie_23]

Ok, GOOD. That is very good. You have some sort of more positive, definite closure now, from him. You seemed to already have achieved some closure for your own self, but this is the final part.

 

For me, it would feel good to know and understand better his situation and to know he did care and was genuine during your time in the affair.

 

I hope you can move on fully soon after this…

[promises]

Ok, GOOD. That is very good. You have some sort of more positive, definite closure now, from him. You seemed to already have achieved some closure for your own self, but this is the final part.

 

For me, it would feel good to know and understand better his situation and to know he did care and was genuine during your time in the affair.

 

I hope you can move on fully soon after this…

 

I hope so as well. Thank you.

[whichwayisup]

You seem sure. That's a good thing! This is closure for you. BUT does he get that? Or was this a way for him to just keep in touch once in a while, call when he feels like it and feel relief if he is going through withdrawal symptoms? Does he understand that it is over and NC still has to happen? Do you have it in you again to start ignoring him and not answer the phone if he calls again?

[whichwayisup]

Did he clarify 'the release' line?

 

I am worried/concerned that you hearing him out (he now knows too, you'll cave since ignoring four of his letters, he got the balls to STILL call after your silence - sorry P, but that says a lot, he isn't concerned about your well being or respecting you, he is more concerned about himself and wanting what he wants.

[promises]

You seem sure. That's a good thing! This is closure for you. BUT does he get that?

 

Well, one thing he isn't getting is me.

[stevie_23]

He isn't concerned about your well being or respecting you, he is more concerned about himself and wanting what he wants.

 

I agree with this. It's fairly obvious he is self absorbed and going through some hard times in his life and he either feels the need to make sure that THIS particular situation he did / does care about with Promises is finalised in the best possible way (explain himself, etc) and then move on, or he just is using her as a security blanket to help his own self because he's stressed out, unhappy, addicted to that blanket.

 

Either way, Promises needs to be strong and use this discussion as the final positive closure step.

[promises]

Did he clarify 'the release' line?

 

I am worried/concerned that you hearing him out (he now knows too, you'll cave since ignoring four of his letters, he got the balls to STILL call after your silence - sorry P, but that says a lot, he isn't concerned about your well being or respecting you, he is more concerned about himself and wanting what he wants.

 

He is most concerned with getting what he wants. I can say that I agree with that. I'm sure the release meant what it sounded like.

 

There was serious passion with he and I and that isn't something that you forget but, it was also a false passion. It was all based on our own little reality.

 

If he was 100% committed to his W he would not have called. Yes, it does speak volumes on his wants and desires mimicking only his needs.

 

However, it is not my issue and I am done and not entertaining it. I heard the things that made me understand I was not going insane and he actually understood what had happened because of this.

[promises]

my guess is it's a security blanket for him.

[promises]

he got the balls to STILL call after your silence -

 

He is very self-assured, that's for sure.

[whichwayisup]

He is very self-assured, that's for sure.

 

Well, you get the last laugh now. I'm sure he thinks now he can call you again and you'll answer, talk to him and 'hear' him out. He'll selfishly try to manipulate you since he probably feels like he 'won' since you answered his call and didn't hang up on him after ignoring 4 letters from him, he got through to you.

 

I really REALLY hope you do have it in you to ignore him from now on and focus on healing and pushing him out of your head.

[Catplates]

Promises,

 

If it's as you think and it was a closure, I am very pleased for you.

 

I feel a little like a couple of the other posters though. YOu know what they say about giving the time of day to somebody who pushes the limits.

 

Sounds as though he is good at moving boundaries.

 

Just a thought... that's how xMM and I reunited several times, after "the talk".

 

Cat

[promises]

Promises,

 

If it's as you think and it was a closure, I am very pleased for you.

 

I feel a little like a couple of the other posters though. YOu know what they say about giving the time of day to somebody who pushes the limits.

 

Sounds as though he is good at moving boundaries.

 

Just a thought... that's how xMM and I reunited several times, after "the talk".

 

Cat

 

How did things end for you, Cat. How are you now?

[Got it]

Promises, quotes I have posted before. Take what resonates and leave the rest. Hope you are having a good day.

 

A lot of women on this website have spent years hurting themselves so as to not hurt others. It's another way of expressing how little you value yourself. The reason why you feel other people don't consider whether or not they hurt you, is that you don't consider it yourself.

 

Every time, you put someone else's feelings ahead of your own, you are sending a message that says "it's okay if you hurt me in this way."

 

For the record, I don't think you did anything wrong with SG. If I were on the tail end of a messy break up, I'd have told him the same things. (Heck, I've been there and done that.) But this guy was not the guy."

 

There comes a time in your life when you finally get it ... When in the midst of all your fears and insanity you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out "ENOUGH! Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on." And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and through a mantle of wet lashes you begin to look at the world from a new perspective.

 

..........This is your awakening.

 

You realize that it is time to stop hoping and waiting for something or someone to change, or for happiness safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that there aren't always fairytale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you. Then a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.

 

So you begin making your way through the "reality of today" rather than holding out for the "promise of tomorrow." You realize that much of who you are and the way you navigate through life is, in great part, a result of all the social conditioning you've received over the course of a lifetime. And you begin to sift through all the nonsense you were taught about :

 

- how you should look and how much you should weigh,

- what you should wear and where you should shop,

- where you should live or what type of car you should drive,

- who you should sleep with and how you should behave,

- who you should marry and why you should stay,

- the importance of bearing children or what you owe your family,

 

Slowly you begin to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin re-assessing and re-defining who you are and what you really believe in. And you begin to discard the doctrines you have outgrown, or should never have practiced to begin with.

 

You accept the fact that you are not perfect ,and that not everyone will love appreciate or approve of who or what you are... and that's OK... they are entitled to their own views and opinions. And, you come to terms with the fact that you will never be a size 5 or a "perfect 10".... Or a perfect human being for that matter... and you stop trying to compete with the image inside your head or agonizing over how you compare. And, you take a long look at yourself in the mirror and you make a promise to give yourself the same unconditional love and support you give so freely to others. Then a sense of confidence is born of self-approval.

 

And, you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" hungry for your next fix, a new dress, another pair of shoes or looks of approval and admiration from family, friends or even strangers who pass by. Then you discover that it is truly in "giving" that we receive, and that the joy and abundance you seek grows out of the giving. And you recognize the importance of "creating" and "contributing" rather than "obtaining" and "accumulating."

 

And you give thanks for the simple things you've been blessed with, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about - a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, the freedom of choice and the opportunity to pursue your own dreams.

 

And you begin to love and to care for yourself. You stop engaging in self-destructive behaviors, including participating in dysfunctional relationships. You begin eating a balanced diet, drinking more water and exercising. And because you've learned that fatigue drains the spirit and creates doubt and fear, you give yourself permission to rest. And just as food is fuel for the body, laughter is fuel for the spirit and so you make it a point to create time for play.

 

Then you learn about love and relationships - how to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving, and when to walk away. And you allow only the hands of a lover who truly loves and respects you to glorify you with his touch. You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say, intentionally or unintentionally, and that not everyone will always come through... and interestingly enough, it's not always about you. So, you stop lashing out and pointing fingers or looking to place blame for the things that were done to you or weren't done for you. And you learn to keep your Ego in check and to acknowledge and redirect the destructive emotions it spawns - anger, jealousy and resentment.

 

You learn how to say "I was wrong" and to forgive people for their own human frailties. You learn to build bridges instead of walls and about the healing power of love as it is expressed through a kind word, a warm smile or a friendly gesture. And, at the same time, you eliminate any relationships that are hurtful or fail to uplift and edify you. You stop working so hard at smoothing things over and setting your needs aside. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK and that it is your right to want or expect certain things. And you learn the importance of communicating your needs with confidence and grace. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that eventually martyrs are burned at the stake. Then you learn to distinguish between guilt, and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to Say NO. You learn that you don't know all the answers, it's not your job to save the world and that sometimes you just need to Let Go.

 

Moreover, you learn to look at people as they really are and not as you would want them to be, and you are careful not to project your neediness or insecurities onto a relationship. You learn that you will not be more beautiful, more intelligent, more lovable or important because of the man on your arm or the child that bears your name. You learn that just as people grow and change, so it is with love and relationships, and that that not everyone can always love you the way you would want them to. So you stop appraising your worth by the measure of love you are given. And suddenly you realize that it's wrong to demand that someone live their life or sacrifice their dreams just to serve your needs, ease your insecurities, or meet "your" standards and expectations. You learn that the only love worth giving and receiving is the love that is given freely without conditions or limitations. And you learn what it means to love. So you stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes. You learn that "alone" does not mean "lonely" and you begin to discover the joy of spending time "with yourself" and "on yourself." Then you discover the greatest and most fulfilling love you will ever know - Self Love. And so it comes to pass that, through understanding, your heart heals; and now all new things are possible.

 

Moving along, you begin to avoid Toxic people and conversations. And you stop wasting time and energy rehashing your situation with family and friends. You learn that talk doesn't change things and that unrequited wishes can only serve to keep you trapped in the past. So you stop lamenting over what could or should have been and you make a decision to leave the past behind. Then you begin to invest your time and energy to affect positive change. You take a personal inventory of all your strengths and weaknesses and the areas you need to improve in order to move ahead, you set your goals and map out a plan of action to see things through.

 

You learn that life isn't always fair and you don't always get what you think you deserve, and you stop personalizing every loss or disappointment. You learn to accept that sometimes bad things happen to good people and that these things are not an act of God... but merely a random act of fate.

 

And you stop looking for guarantees, because you've learned that the only thing you can really count on is the unexpected and that whatever happens, you'll learn to deal with it. And you learn that the only thing you must truly fear is the great robber baron of all time - FEAR itself. So you learn to step right into and through your fears, because to give into fear is to give away the right to live life on your terms. You learn that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophesy and you learn to go after what you want and not to squander your life living under a cloud of indecision or feelings of impending doom.

 

Then, YOU LEARN ABOUT MONEY... the personal power and independence it brings and the options it creates. And you recognize the necessity to create your own personal wealth. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never ever settle for less than your heart's desire. And a sense of power is born of self-reliance. And you live with honor and integrity because you know that these principles are not the outdated ideals of a by-gone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build your life. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting and to stay open to every wonderful opportunity and exciting possibility. Then you hang a wind chime outside your window to remind yourself what beauty there is in Simplicity.

 

Finally, with courage in your heart and with God by your side you take a stand, you TAKE a deep breath and you begin to design the life you want to live as best as you can."

 

 

 

 

 

CLOWN STORY

 

" A man found himself in the middle of a long hallway. In the middle of this long hallway was a solitary door. He walked up to the door and knocked on it. It was answered by a clown who proceeded to beat the life out of him. The next day, the gentleman was in the hallway once more, and once more found his way to the door and knocked on it. Again, it was answered by the same clown and again, the clown beat him senseless. This occurred for 4 more days - the man would be in the hallway, go to the door, knock on it, and the clown would answer the door only to beat him senseless once more.

 

On the 7th day, the man was once again in the hallway. He walked up to the door and knocked on it - but no one answered. So, he went looking for the clown.

 

My husband and I often say, when we're discussing how we used to allow prior relationships to hurt us AGAIN and AGAIN, that we're NO LONGER looking for the clown.

 

I see women here who continually allow their xMM (or MM) to hurt them again and again and again. The key word here, though, is "allow." When we allow someone to continually hurt us and abuse us emotionally, it becomes the rule rather than the exception.

 

I just want to tell those who are hurting to STOP looking for the clown. "

 

 

 

 

 

So, this is from the Clown's perspective:

 

Wow, she finally found me, she must really want me. I'm going to treat her like ****, disrespect her, lie to her, give her just little bits of my time and make promises I have no intention of keeping. She surely won't stay around after that.

 

Hmmmm....I can't believe she's come back looking for me again. I would have thought that by treating her so bad to begin with she wouldn't want to be treated like that anymore. I'm going to treat her like **** some more, give her some even bigger lies and give her hope when I know there isn't any.

 

WOW, she is back for more? I thought for sure she'd have gone away by now. After all, I have really been an ******* to her. I've given her nothing but pain and heartache, yet she seems to enjoy all these bad things I can give her. I'm thinking she must be enjoying this.

 

OMG - this is great! She has come back again and I now know for sure that I don't ever have to change. That no matter how bad I treat her, no matter what I say or do, no matter how much I lie to her, hurt her, give her hope - she is just going to accept it. I don't have to change my life, ruin my family, put anything of my own in jeopardy because she has proven to me she will continue to keep coming back for me. No matter how bad I treat her.

 

And, I keep getting to have someone on the side who I can have sex with, who I can call when I'm lonely, hurting or just need someone to understand my problems. I can fit her into my life because she is waiting around and always available to me no matter what. She is so happy for the 5 minutes we get together that I don't have to give more than that.

 

Wow, I LOVE being the Clown. I have it made!!

 

I feel sorry for the one who keeps looking for me.

[promises]

why?

it sounds as if you've learned something about yourself and have found a source of inner strength that you didn't realize you had...

 

that sounds like a positive outcome to me

 

There is no positive outcome in terms of continuing any type of relationship with xMM. That's what I was eluding to.

[promises]

thanks, Got it.

 

I agree that especially as women we tend to value not hurting other people before not hurting ourselves.

 

It's a hard lesson to learn. But dammit, I'm tired of putting other peoples needs, emotions, etc., above my own well being.

[promises]

But didn't you know this already?

 

Why are you continuing to have communication from him? What did talking to him do for YOU? What happens when he calls again? Will you take the call?

 

Sounds like you are far from done and for your sake, that is not good. I can see you easily getting back into the affair - even just an emotional one. You don't seem ready to truly let him go.

 

I can't explain it completely. I honestly thought this man was in love with me. This last communication was just very telling.

 

I may never completely let him go in my memory or the place in my heart that actually had love for him. That's true of any past relationship. But, that doesn't mean that something has shifted for me.

 

Look at the circumstances. Before he sold me a different story. Now, what is there possibly that I could take from this that would benefit me?

[LFH]

thanks, Got it.

 

I agree that especially as women we tend to value not hurting other people before not hurting ourselves.

 

It's a hard lesson to learn. But dammit, I'm tired of putting other peoples needs, emotions, etc., above my own well being.

 

That's how I ended up with him.

[stevie_23]

With that clown story, I have 2 questions...

 

1. Why did the man come back the FIRST time after being beaten by the clown? What was his reason for returning? Most people in that situation would never even return to the BUILDING for fear of being beaten again by this crazy clown.

 

From the clown's perspective, my question is...

 

2. Why did he WANT the woman who found him to go away? He seemed surprised she kept coming back, and it sounds as if he didn't WANT her there in the first place.

 

I can understand the clown's perspective more than I can understand the first scenario man's perspective.

[Got it]

With that clown story, I have 2 questions...

 

1. Why did the man come back the FIRST time after being beaten by the clown? What was his reason for returning? Most people in that situation would never even return to the BUILDING for fear of being beaten again by this crazy clown.

 

From the clown's perspective, my question is...

 

2. Why did he WANT the woman who found him to go away? He seemed surprised she kept coming back, and it sounds as if he didn't WANT her there in the first place.

 

I can understand the clown's perspective more than I can understand the first scenario man's perspective.

 

1. Because he wanted to see if it would happen again. He questioned why it happened to begin with, came up with 100 reasons why it didn't really happen, didn't happen in the way it did, and if it did happen it was an anomaly and wouldn't happen again. We tend to question when something bad happens and think they are outside the norm/anomaly instead of understanding/accepting they are the norm.

 

2. Because who accepts poor treatment and keeps coming back? If we don't value ourselves, if we let someone treat us poorly, then we are saying that we agree and its acceptable. It becomes, well how bad can I treat you before you put down a boundary? I think it becomes/is viewed that if you allow it then you are telling them it is okay and you agree. "Thank you ma'am can I have another?"

 

Humans do a lot of things and put up with a lot of poor behavior for a number of reasons. We accept far less than we should because of wanting something positive out of it. Being accepted, seen as enough, validation, trying to change a past pattern with a new situation.