About cheaters

[LFH]

I was not aware that I was only to give you advice that you like. I'm sorry you're hurting but you're acting like a stalker. You also don't seem to actually like the person you are claiming to have feelings for. Seek counseling.

 

Also if you are bleeding from every pore of your skin you may want to seek medical help. That's not normal.

Edited March 2, 2013 by LFH

[Radagast]

You're probably not interested in my view since I'm a man and not a "slapper" (since that is how you describe women in the situation whose input you are seeking) but it being an open forum, I'll give it anyway.

 

This is about your ego. She turned you down flat. She's not interested in you. Despite of the limitations of her relationship with this "creep", she still sees him as a far better bet than you. This is eating you up, to have it shown repeatedly that you are a less desirable option than a partially available, "creepy" guy. Your self-image will not allow you simply to accept that, so you're tying yourself into knots trying to rationalise the situation so that you still come out of it looking OK.

 

Not everyone shares your views. Not of yourself, nor of others. If she thought he was as big a loser as you do, she'd not be with him. If she thought you were as big a winner as you think, she'd be all over you. So there you have it - you are not the arbiter of world opinion. Others have their own opinions too. Some will agree with you, some will agree with her, and others will agree with neither of you. The best you can hope for is to find some other woman who will share at least some of your view of your own wonderfulness, but you'll probably have to lose the notion that those who don't are rationally flawed, or that women who enjoy sex are "slappers", or any of the other judgmental views you've expressed in your posts. People don't typically enjoy being dissed in that way.

 

And you might want to stop harassing her at work, too. If she's in HR, chances are she'll know how to lay a grievance against you for that.

[Got it]

I am confused how you can be so into her but yet you two have never even gone out? They say that affairs have a bubble but do you think that you even knew her to be so into her?

 

Listen I understand you are attracted to her, but obviously you don't know her. I do agree that you are dipping your toe into potentially been seen as stalking and I would pull back completely.

 

If she is breaking policy, if there are strict fraternization policies which you should easily substantiate in your handbook, I would report her. Most companies do not have straight across the board fraternization policies though. There is some context and perimeters around them. But all company policies are clearly laid out in the handbook at your disposal.

 

She was not who you thought she was. I think the silver lining was a very insightful experience for you and potentially you dodged a bullet.

[Apolodor]

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, I think there is a bit of truth in all the posts (even in the more “caustic”ones). Certainly, the perspective provided by these posts has helped in my process of letting go of this unhealthy love obsession. While I assume my share of blame for turning myself into a stalker and becoming somewhat creepy (although that’s arguable), I am somewhat surprised that everyone seems to suggest that trying to rationalise the situation which I am in is pointless….. To let go requires some form of explanation, even if we have to manufacture that for ourselves.

 

 

I believe there is a simple explanation for the story I described in my previous posts, and that has to do with the fact that I am a single,attractive, and also an available male…. You see, the working hours in the place where I make a living are fairly long, and chances are that if you are not already in a relationship it’s pretty hard to nurture a new one. Moreover,the company tends to move people around a lot of the time (every 2-3 years), so unless you are in a very serious-type relationship chances are that you’ll need to start re-building your romantic life all over again when you move to a new place (read ‘continent’). This woman (let’s call her D) probably understands better than me what that’s like, so she is left with the choice of dating random guys on the internet or developing a pseudo-relationship with a work colleague. The benefit of the latter is that you get to see your loved one every day and get to interact with him while you are being paid. Single, eligible men tend to be demanding and, more often than not, they like the idea of being in exclusive relationships, so D regards them as a risky prospect. If things don’t work out for whatever reason, such men are more prone to indiscretions and her reputation at work might be compromised. However, that is not the case with relatively young and newly married guys. These are extremely discreet because their marriages are still important to them and they don’t want to lose their wives. So D knows that she does not have to worry about her job being in jeopardy by having an affair with such a guy. And that’s the reason why she prefers to stay with the MM instead of considering other options. This “theory” was suggested by a close female friend a couple of weeks ago and I think it is a lot closer to the truth than everything that has been said in the previous posts. It makes sense to me because I did notice that D tends to flirt a lot with newly married guys (who sometimes are much younger than her) and not so much with the older men. I have recently found out that the MM in my story has asked to betransferred overseas (a lot of people at work don’t quite understand why and Iam not claiming that this is related to his affair, although I am not rulingthat out). He is likely to leave by the end of this summer, so D will have to recruit another f***-buddy….. Speaking of which, last week at lunch I was sitting opposite to this Turkish man (he just got married last year) and D was sitting at a table right behind me (our table was already full). We both work together, so we know each other pretty well. While I was trying to talk to himhe kept eyeballing her unashamedly (35 mins or so) to the extent that I was embarrassed because I felt like I was talking to myself. Next day, guess what?! Turkish guy sitting at the same table and D sitting opposite him smiling from ear to ear to ear, while he was talking only to her and disregarding everyone around….. Two days later, we attend some goodbye party for a colleague; I look around for theTurkish man and I find him exactly where I guessed he would be (next to D tryingto charm her with his half-bald head; btw, she is twice as tall as he is….). One day later I’m by the coffee machines after lunch, Turkish man’s got a coffee already in his hand but he keeps pacing the area up and down like a restless dog. Tried talking to him but he’s busy looking at the door and studying the area. Five minutes later D comes to get a coffee, he suddenly gets right behind her trying to chat her up while she’s waiting for the coffee to be ready….. The day after that I am in the sitting room reading a newspaper, D is getting asnack from the vending machine ignoring me, Turkish man passing on the corridor;he winks at her and she smiles back at him with her whole heart – a smile that lingers on her face for about 20 seconds. From where I am sitting I can see these exchanges very clearly. I can bet any amount of money on who her nextf***-buddy will be, but others will accuse me of jealousy, so I’d better stop here…..

 

 

I have stopped pursuing this woman for several weeks now becauseI understand that there isn’t much point (even though her signals in the past said something differently). The problem is that she is not trying to make it easy for me. At lunchtime, whenever there are seats left at the table where my department eats, she comes to sit there because that’s where all “her married men” are. She could sit with the women from her own administrative department, but they will not give her the attention that she wants (besides they are all serious, married women with kids, so I am sure their conversations about their families make her feel uncomfortable). I’ve started to go to lunch late so that the table is full and I could have a legit excuse for sitting somewhere else, but it does bother me that I need to back off and eat with some people I don’t know, while she is claiming “my territory” and alienating me from my team mates.

 

I don’t think she is in a position to consider harassment charges against me because she does not have any hard evidence (other than acouple of text messages which contain no advances of any kind). She also knows that I could be telling management about her affair with the MM and that might destroy his marriage and seriously jeopardise how she is perceived in the company – too much at stake for her, I’m afraid (I’m just a minor nuisance by comparison)

Edited March 3, 2013 by Apolodor

[Got it]

I think your mistake is thinking that you are owed an explanation on why. You are not owed that explanation. She is not interested in you. Full Stop. Why doesn't matter because on the flip side, how well does she know you?

 

Her interest, or lack there of, in you does not define you. I am sure there are many attractive, eligible, woman who cross your path but for some reason, doesn't cause your blood to sing. It is just a chemistry thing, no good no bad.

 

Just like with all dating, you put yourself out there, she turned you down for whatever reason, you dust yourself off and move forward. You listed some great attributes about yourself, so if she doesn't see it then its her loss.

 

How she is leading her life is her business. You might find that not being involved with her is a blessing in disguise.

 

But she doesn't owe you a reason. It just is.

[Apolodor]

I think your mistake is thinking that you are owed an explanation on why. You are not owed that explanation. She is not interested in you. Full Stop. Why doesn't matter because on the flip side, how well does she know you?

 

Her interest, or lack there of, in you does not define you. I am sure there are many attractive, eligible, woman who cross your path but for some reason, doesn't cause your blood to sing. It is just a chemistry thing, no good no bad.

 

Just like with all dating, you put yourself out there, she turned you down for whatever reason, you dust yourself off and move forward. You listed some great attributes about yourself, so if she doesn't see it then its her loss.

 

How she is leading her life is her business. You might find that not being involved with her is a blessing in disguise.

 

But she doesn't owe you a reason. It just is.

 

I fully agree with you. But you (and all the other posters) seem to think that my frustration is solely because I cannot have her. While it's true that that caused me some serious heartache, as I said previously, I care about this woman irrespective of her romantic interest in me or not. What really gets me is that she does not go out there and try to be in a decent relationship with one of the many available single men. There are lots of men who will take her with open arms. The fact that she accepts to have a second-hand affair and allows herself to be objectified upsets me. Or, at least, it used to. I've started to get her out of my mind slowly, and for the past few days I felt a lot more indifferent to her 'drama'. I hope to get over this at some point in the future as it has been a very emotionally draining situation.

 

Many thanks for your advice and your continued interest.

[Apolodor]

I almost felt guilty re-reading post #35 and insinuating that there is something between D and the Turkish man . I mean, this is a guy who wears everyday the same pair of cheap black jeans bought from a thrift store and a turquoise fleece that was perhaps picked from the discount bin of a second-hand shop. It is still a mystery to me that he did get married recently. Anyway, I have been paying close attention to D's habits at lunchtime and noticed that whenever she is not sitting at the same table with TM or in a position she can look at him, she kind of keeps searching with her eyes for someone whenever she leaves the cafeteria. Yesterday, she is sitting just opposite TM but at a different table. Finishes her lunch in a record time and then plants herself next to the coffee machine pretending to talk to some old fart. Of course, 5 minutes later TM comes to get a coffee and guess what?! He keeps sitting next to D although he was clearly inconveniecing anyone else who was trying to get a coffee. I thought that it was maybe another "coincidence". Today, however, these two horny lovebirds couldn't stand anymore being away from each other.... D knows that TM will be away for the entire next week, so she was itching to get more close and personal with him.

She is casually passing by TM's office (which he shares with another young guy) and realizes that he's alone in the office. She gets back and enters pretending to offer her services to help TM with using a website (which you would need to be retarded no to be able to use it without help).So, she pulls her chair close to TM and then starts leaning towards him and then she keeps talking, and talking, and laughing like a cow to every single word the TM struggles to utter..... This lasts 20 minutes or so, time in which a couple of senior colleagues passed by TM's office and raised their eyebrows seeing this woman in his office (she was not supposed to be there,usually the assistant HR woman deals with this kind of employees -- she's quite high up). I kept pacing the corridor just to see what these two were up to. Needless to say the feeelings of rejection and frustration all re-surfaced fresh again. It's really painful to watch..... How can a woman as classy and sexy as D be attracted to a small fry (in every sense of the word) like TM?? (who happens to be married as well). It just blows my mind. I guess, you can take the girl out of the valley, but you can't take the valley out of the girl......

Edited March 8, 2013 by Apolodor

[Eggplant]

One of my troubles is that these are not ordinary employees who have just been hired, they are trusted pillars in my company community. ... You see, what really gets me is the hypocrisy of these two people because I deal with them on a daily basis.

The social-climbers, church-goers, politicians, etc., are often shallow, ruthless, and cold-hearted, underneath the mask.

[LFH]

Your continued focus on this woman is not healthy. Why are you spending so much time thinking about her? You should be focusing on finding someone available to you.

 

Also, have you noticed how you seem to think everyone is beneath you? Perhaps some therapy or soul searching on that might be beneficial and might make you more attractive to others.

[Dragonfruit]

I must confess that it's still a mystery for me why attractive single women choose to pursue sexual relationships with happily married men.... Where I work, there is this 37 yrs old tall atttractive brunette who is involved with a colleague, a 35 yrs old man, HAPPILY married to a gorgeous 30 yrs old blonde, and who has a cute 1.2 years daugther. As always, the wife is unsuspecting.....(she does come from time to time to have lunch with her husband in the company cafeteria though). The guy is a typical alpha male, good looks + likes to talk a lot of repetitive garbage, and very confident. But if you look behind the surface there is not much left.

After their sexual intercourse is finished the woman goes back to her dog and empty flat. While the guy returns to his happy home where the wife and daughter are waiting for him with open arms.... Am I the only one who can see how absurd this situation is from the woman's point of view?? What compels a woman to keep embarking on such an emotionally bankrupt relationship? Is it sex?? There are lots of single men out there who can provide that as well. In order to consumate their lust, the woman usually leaves 2 hrs before the end of the program, with the guy following her closely. On one ocassion I caught them having sex in the showers at the back of the building.....

 

Maybe women who have been in similar type of relationships can share some insight on how these arrangements work.

 

Many thanks for reading.

 

I think the single woman is often not in the married man's league (if you'd consider a cheating husband any great catch). He is better than what she can get honestly, yet she flatters herself that the man's home will break up over her and that she will then assume the current wife's position with him. But I believe the man only marries the affair partner in something like 1% of cases. He is not nearly as choosy about who he'll sneak around with as he is about who he'd marry. He gets through the rough patch with his wife and he discards his cheating partner. Or his marriage ends and he discards his cheating partner. I think it is often along the lines of that old saying, "You can't scam an honest man" or in this case, woman. So the single women often put up with it not for what they are getting but for what they are hoping to get.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Dragonfruit

[Got it]

I almost felt guilty re-reading post #35 and insinuating that there is something between D and the Turkish man . I mean, this is a guy who wears everyday the same pair of cheap black jeans bought from a thrift store and a turquoise fleece that was perhaps picked from the discount bin of a second-hand shop. It is still a mystery to me that he did get married recently. Anyway, I have been paying close attention to D's habits at lunchtime and noticed that whenever she is not sitting at the same table with TM or in a position she can look at him, she kind of keeps searching with her eyes for someone whenever she leaves the cafeteria. Yesterday, she is sitting just opposite TM but at a different table. Finishes her lunch in a record time and then plants herself next to the coffee machine pretending to talk to some old fart. Of course, 5 minutes later TM comes to get a coffee and guess what?! He keeps sitting next to D although he was clearly inconveniecing anyone else who was trying to get a coffee. I thought that it was maybe another "coincidence". Today, however, these two horny lovebirds couldn't stand anymore being away from each other.... D knows that TM will be away for the entire next week, so she was itching to get more close and personal with him.

She is casually passing by TM's office (which he shares with another young guy) and realizes that he's alone in the office. She gets back and enters pretending to offer her services to help TM with using a website (which you would need to be retarded no to be able to use it without help).So, she pulls her chair close to TM and then starts leaning towards him and then she keeps talking, and talking, and laughing like a cow to every single word the TM struggles to utter..... This lasts 20 minutes or so, time in which a couple of senior colleagues passed by TM's office and raised their eyebrows seeing this woman in his office (she was not supposed to be there,usually the assistant HR woman deals with this kind of employees -- she's quite high up). I kept pacing the corridor just to see what these two were up to. Needless to say the feeelings of rejection and frustration all re-surfaced fresh again. It's really painful to watch..... How can a woman as classy and sexy as D be attracted to a small fry (in every sense of the word) like TM?? (who happens to be married as well). It just blows my mind. I guess, you can take the girl out of the valley, but you can't take the valley out of the girl......

 

A - STOP!!! Please reread this, you are looking unstable. You spent a large sum of time at work focusing on these two people, stalking them, and following them around. You need to focus on you and your life and stop obsessing. This is extremely unhealthy for you and will only continue to fuel these feelings of hostility. You are pacing the corridor over and over to watch her.

 

That is crazy behavior! What do you think that says about you? Stop. She isn't worth this. No one is worth lowering yourself to slinking around like you are the phantom of the opera. There is nothing honorable, justifiable, or legitimate about what you are doing. What you are doing, unlike them, is bordering on breaking the law. You are stalking. Stop.

[RainDown]

I say this gently, Apolodor, but I'm finding your posts fairly disturbing. What is even more disturbing to me is that you do not seem to understand how disturbing your posts (and behavior at work) are. Do you not understand that most people go to work and, well....work. We do not "closely watch" our co-workers habits at lunch, lurk about watching who is in who's office with whom and for how long, much less pacing the corridor to spy on the interactions of said others. Frankly, your obsessive behavior is bizarre. The relationships and personal life of your female co-worker are none of your business. Who she sits with at lunch - not your business. Who's office she visits - not your business. Who she smiles at - not your business. Who she sees outside of work hours - not your business. Who she chooses to have sex with - not your business.

 

You posting on this forum under the guise that you are simply "trying to understand" why female co-worker does what she does is disingenuous. You are posting on this forum about your female co-worker because your obsession has spilled outside of work and now occupies your mind on your off time, no more, no less.

 

You, my friend, are in the grips of an obsession that is now out of control. What are you going to do next - follow her around after work? I really think you need to talk to someone in real life about what is going on in your head. It is not normal and it is not healthy. Frankly, it's frightening.

 

This whole thing is not OK.

[Dragonfruit]

I think if it's someone you really have it bad for, of course it hurts when they don't want you. And it's worse when they do seem to want someone who you think (or know) is a poor choice. But I'm not sure it would be better if she seemed to prefer someone else who was a wonderful and excellent choice. Maybe the point is "why the hell not me?" And if we were going on logic, it sounds to me like you would be the one from that office that she should choose.

 

I think who people are attracted to often does not have any rhyme or reason. The heart wants what it wants, and often what it wants is not an intelligent or nice choice at all. And then there's that fall, if you have someone up on something of a pedestal because of your fondness for them and then witness nasty behavior from them and discover that they are not the lovely person you thought, it might take a while to process that.

 

It is helpful to be able to make sense of things, I think, for closure and moving on. I am one who likes to make sense of things. Sometimes there just isn't much sense to be had, unfortunately.

 

I don't know the OP's age but one thing I have noticed through the years is many young women (and men, I'm sure) are absolutely dim when it comes to selecting a good mate. Tough guy, cool guy (not to mention married guy) often makes a terrible and ridiculous husband.

 

The second time around, they get smarter. Then the truly decent guys get more appreciation and notice. If it helps... Good luck. It does suck, doesn't it?

Edited March 9, 2013 by Dragonfruit

[chex]

Here we go. Maybe I can provide a bit of perspective, as I was an OM(the woman involved wasn't married, but was in a 2 year LTR, also LDR, plus it's high school) ... The way it happened was that I was friends with this girl, and we had gotten closer after a while, hanging out maybe every other weekend. It was the day after my birthday, I went over there to work on a school project. She had told me over text that she really thought I was hot, and that she really liked my body, I had no idea what to expect once I was there though. So after a while of being there, she kissed me. We made out for the rest of the afternoon, and into the evening.

 

Why did I do it? Well, I'm not an awfully moral person. It was my first experience, I was overwhelmed, I had been into this girl on and off for ~3 years.

 

Why did she do it? She was generally frustrated with the lack of contact in her relationship. It was long distance(actually only an hour apart, but that can be an eternity with the busy schedules of high schoolers, plus his family wasn't too keen on him dating her.) ... another aspect was that she didn't especially like when they made out/had sex, he refused to let her do much in bed, it felt too mechanical to her when they did have sex.

 

We're now dating, she broke up with him.

 

 

Idk why he would do it(in your situation) if he was having such a supposedly happy relationship. Maybe there are some cracks under the surface, that you don't see.

[Apolodor]

A - STOP!!! Please reread this, you are looking unstable. You spent a large sum of time at work focusing on these two people, stalking them, and following them around. You need to focus on you and your life and stop obsessing. This is extremely unhealthy for you and will only continue to fuel these feelings of hostility. You are pacing the corridor over and over to watch her.

 

That is crazy behavior! What do you think that says about you? Stop. She isn't worth this. No one is worth lowering yourself to slinking around like you are the phantom of the opera. There is nothing honorable, justifiable, or legitimate about what you are doing. What you are doing, unlike them, is bordering on breaking the law. You are stalking. Stop.

 

Well, look, I am a rational person and in my mind I have already accepted defeat and tried to move on. But it does not work because I bump into this woman all the time and she is the kind of straight-in-your-face sort of person. Besides, the heart does not take orders from upstairs .... Also, very diffficult to avoid her. In the past I avoided having lunch on site and spending any time outside the room in which I work (except for picking up the odd coffee and going to the loo). However, that backfired as my team mates thought that I had something against them, so I had to resume normal social interactions at work (which inevitably force me to witness D's flirts with the Turkish man and the other MM). What I did yesterday spying on those 2 lovebirds was sick, I know it. But I almost had a heart attack when I saw her going in TM's office (given all my previous observations about the dynamics between these 2 in the past few weeks). By seeing first hand the interaction between them my worst fears were fully confirmed, and although it still hurts (despite the fact that I had 2 bottles of wine yesterday evening) I hope it will help me let go...eventually, at least. D was leaning towards TM pretending that she wanted to see the computer screen more clearly, so much so that 1/4 of her hair was touching his legs. She spent 20 minutes to show him something that would have taken at most 5 minutes and for which she could have delegated her assistant because it was a really minor matter that did not fall under her duties. Being rejected is a tough thing. There are rejections that can be rationalised, but when the woman you are in love with goes for another MM who is half-bald, short, wearing thick glasses, and who has no style in dressing, it just makes you want to scream.....

Edited March 9, 2013 by Apolodor

[Apolodor]

I think the single woman is often not in the married man's league (if you'd consider a cheating husband any great catch). He is better than what she can get honestly, yet she flatters herself that the man's home will break up over her and that she will then assume the current wife's position with him. But I believe the man only marries the affair partner in something like 1% of cases. He is not nearly as choosy about who he'll sneak around with as he is about who he'd marry. He gets through the rough patch with his wife and he discards his cheating partner. Or his marriage ends and he discards his cheating partner. I think it is often along the lines of that old saying, "You can't scam an honest man" or in this case, woman. So the single women often put up with it not for what they are getting but for what they are hoping to get.

 

Dragonfruit, I think this is a point of view that applies in certain cases and, I must confess, that I initially thought it was also the case with D and MM in my story. The MM is (as I already said) an alpha male, well liked in the company, etc, etc. However, D is now going for a Turkish guy who does not have any sort of redeeming feature, other than the fact that he kept eyeballing D for weeks and she got the message that he would be interested in some sex with her. What I think happens in some cases is, single women go for recently married men who are open to have some sex on the side because they are very discreet and unlikely to brag about their bedroom conquests. Besides, if she is careful she can date several of these men without them knowing of each other. So maybe in their books having several part-time "lovers" equates having a proper full-time relationship. It is a sick twisted world out there!

[tbf]

Apolodor, there's one way to disengage. Not only are the OW and the cheater bereft of morals, consider your role in this. Forget for one second that the cheater's married and consider the OW, previously committed to someone else. Why would you pursue someone already in a relationship? Isn't this reminiscent of the OW's morally bereft actions?

 

Thought I'd spin it in a way to help you exit this silly triangle. Can't understand why you'd be interested in someone who plays in the gutter.

[Apolodor]

I say this gently, Apolodor, but I'm finding your posts fairly disturbing. What is even more disturbing to me is that you do not seem to understand how disturbing your posts (and behavior at work) are. Do you not understand that most people go to work and, well....work. We do not "closely watch" our co-workers habits at lunch, lurk about watching who is in who's office with whom and for how long, much less pacing the corridor to spy on the interactions of said others. Frankly, your obsessive behavior is bizarre. The relationships and personal life of your female co-worker are none of your business. Who she sits with at lunch - not your business. Who's office she visits - not your business. Who she smiles at - not your business. Who she sees outside of work hours - not your business. Who she chooses to have sex with - not your business.

 

You posting on this forum under the guise that you are simply "trying to understand" why female co-worker does what she does is disingenuous. You are posting on this forum about your female co-worker because your obsession has spilled outside of work and now occupies your mind on your off time, no more, no less.

 

You, my friend, are in the grips of an obsession that is now out of control. What are you going to do next - follow her around after work? I really think you need to talk to someone in real life about what is going on in your head. It is not normal and it is not healthy. Frankly, it's frightening.

 

This whole thing is not OK.

 

RainDown, thanks for your insight into this. Why do you assume that I am going at extra lengths to see what D is doing?? (it's true that pacing up and down TM's office to sneak on them was a bit sick, but I did get my proof -- at least I know now that it was not my imagination...). I am making every effort I can to avoid crossing D's path and in my mind I thought that I had already accepted that there would be nothing coming out of this. The trouble is that she does not want to give me some space to heal and deliberately does things that she knows will hurt me. For example, there is a new guy that started a couple of weeks ago (marrried + children) and his office is now next to mine. The walls between our offices are decorative, you can hear everything that happens next door (even typing on the computer). So this guy is meant to be given an introduction to our organisation, something which usually takes place in the HR department and lasts about 1 hr. D, however, decides to have this session in this guy's office (which involved her bringing her laptop to this guy's office). While I am in my office trying to concentrate on important work, I have to put up with her attempts to flirt, laugh and joke with this guy for 2 hrs and a half while pretending that she is giving him an introduction.... After 45 mins I had to go out because it was really disturbing me. I got back 45 minutes later and they were still there joking and flirting (the guy seemed somewhat surprised by her repeated attempts to flirt with him). So, you see, if she had more decency I wouldn't be in the situation I am know. She tries to remind him that I am somewhat inadequate from her point of view, and it is this that makes my blood boil......

[Apolodor]

Apolodor, there's one way to disengage. Not only are the OW and the cheater bereft of morals, consider your role in this. Forget for one second that the cheater's married and consider the OW, previously committed to someone else. Why would you pursue someone already in a relationship? Isn't this reminiscent of the OW's morally bereft actions?

 

Thought I'd spin it in a way to help you exit this silly triangle. Can't understand why you'd be interested in someone who plays in the gutter.

 

TBF, I managed to get some closure regarding D and the original MM by using the same argument as you suggested. That lasted until I discovered that D has developed a keen interest in another guy who, frankly, has no redeeming qualities (and this guy happens to be my junior both as age and as professional experience). And BTW, this new guy is also recently married (but no children yet). I know I should not think twice about a woman who is getting into multiple relationships with married guys, but the fact is that it hurts even more. This is in no small part due to D's smug

attitude and indiscretions regarding this other man.

[Got it]

RainDown, thanks for your insight into this. Why do you assume that I am going at extra lengths to see what D is doing?? (it's true that pacing up and down TM's office to sneak on them was a bit sick, but I did get my proof -- at least I know now that it was not my imagination...). I am making every effort I can to avoid crossing D's path and in my mind I thought that I had already accepted that there would be nothing coming out of this. The trouble is that she does not want to give me some space to heal and deliberately does things that she knows will hurt me. For example, there is a new guy that started a couple of weeks ago (marrried + children) and his office is now next to mine. The walls between our offices are decorative, you can hear everything that happens next door (even typing on the computer). So this guy is meant to be given an introduction to our organisation, something which usually takes place in the HR department and lasts about 1 hr. D, however, decides to have this session in this guy's office (which involved her bringing her laptop to this guy's office). While I am in my office trying to concentrate on important work, I have to put up with her attempts to flirt, laugh and joke with this guy for 2 hrs and a half while pretending that she is giving him an introduction.... After 45 mins I had to go out because it was really disturbing me. I got back 45 minutes later and they were still there joking and flirting (the guy seemed somewhat surprised by her repeated attempts to flirt with him). So, you see, if she had more decency I wouldn't be in the situation I am know. She tries to remind him that I am somewhat inadequate from her point of view, and it is this that makes my blood boil......

 

A - you are not on her radar. Do you really think she is thinking of how to drive you crazy? That is crazy thinking. You are not crossing her mind, you are not impacting her behavior, you two have no connection. The only actual, direct behavior you have told that she has done was avoiding engaging in any conversation with you and limiting your presence in her environment.

[Got it]

Well, look, I am a rational person and in my mind I have already accepted defeat and tried to move on. But it does not work because I bump into this woman all the time and she is the kind of straight-in-your-face sort of person. Besides, the heart does not take orders from upstairs .... Also, very diffficult to avoid her. In the past I avoided having lunch on site and spending any time outside the room in which I work (except for picking up the odd coffee and going to the loo). However, that backfired as my team mates thought that I had something against them, so I had to resume normal social interactions at work (which inevitably force me to witness D's flirts with the Turkish man and the other MM). What I did yesterday spying on those 2 lovebirds was sick, I know it. But I almost had a heart attack when I saw her going in TM's office (given all my previous observations about the dynamics between these 2 in the past few weeks). By seeing first hand the interaction between them my worst fears were fully confirmed, and although it still hurts (despite the fact that I had 2 bottles of wine yesterday evening) I hope it will help me let go...eventually, at least. D was leaning towards TM pretending that she wanted to see the computer screen more clearly, so much so that 1/4 of her hair was touching his legs. She spent 20 minutes to show him something that would have taken at most 5 minutes and for which she could have delegated her assistant because it was a really minor matter that did not fall under her duties. Being rejected is a tough thing. There are rejections that can be rationalised, but when the woman you are in love with goes for another MM who is half-bald, short, wearing thick glasses, and who has no style in dressing, it just makes you want to scream.....

 

A - a novel idea, focus on work. When I am at work I am not there to socialize, I am there to do my job and support my employer. What social interactions? If you continue to work, eat lunch at your desk or go out to eat off site you are doing everything that is appropriate and avoiding her. I rarely go out to eat and most lunches are at my desk. This is not viewed at as weird by my employer at all and is appreciated that I am working while eating lunch. My job is not to socialize. These people are not my friends, they are my coworkers.

 

You know way too much what she is doing which means you are not working. You are paid to do your job. Do it.

[Apolodor]

A - a novel idea, focus on work. When I am at work I am not there to socialize, I am there to do my job and support my employer. What social interactions? If you continue to work, eat lunch at your desk or go out to eat off site you are doing everything that is appropriate and avoiding her. I rarely go out to eat and most lunches are at my desk. This is not viewed at as weird by my employer at all and is appreciated that I am working while eating lunch. My job is not to socialize. These people are not my friends, they are my coworkers.

 

You know way too much what she is doing which means you are not working. You are paid to do your job. Do it.

 

Thanks for your advice, I am sure it was well intended. But I believe this kind of thing depends very much on the culture of the company were you happen to work. In my place nobody, I mean NOBODY, eats lunch at their desk. Partly because it is a close-knit environment and the food is really outstanding in terms of quality, choice and price. I spent the entire month of December last year and the first 3 weeks of January not eating on site and that has raised quite a few eyebrows. That's why I decided to resume normal behaviour. During my first couple of months when I started working for these guys I focused on work and spent a lot of time in my office. Then one of my managers came to lecture me that they didn't hire me to sit in my office and urged me to interact more with people. Which inevitably increases my chances of bumping into this woman. I changed the position of my desk so that now I am sitting with my back to the door, just to avoid seeing D passing by my office a million times a day. That didn't work because she's loud and whenever she walks past my office I hear her laughing or making jokes. At one point I was bringing coffee from home in a thermos, just to avoid using the coffee machine..... Eventually I got sick of it because I like to take coffee with milk and the milk is where the coffee machines are.... By making all these changes in my life I can't help but feeling even more defeated because she carries on with her life as if nothing happened, while I wallow in misery. I think it's wrong hiding and avoiding her as this suggests that I am allowing her to take the power away from me. The only way someone can take the power away from you is if you give it to them, and I really don't want to do that.

[aed]

 

I also notice in your original post, you say "happily married men". TRULY happily married men are not OPEN to being with anyone else.

 

That is not true, some people just cheat because they can or get a change.

 

I knew a guy that was telling when he was drunk, that he finaly met a girl he loved for the first time. But cheated on her the same night.

 

 

some guys cheat when they are not happy, some cheat because they don't get enough sex, some cheat because they fallout of love with their wife/gf, some cheat because they can. Some cheat because they think it is something they feel it is something a guy should do, and I can list a few more reasons.

[Apolodor]

That is not true, some people just cheat because they can or get a change.

 

I knew a guy that was telling when he was drunk, that he finaly met a girl he loved for the first time. But cheated on her the same night.

 

 

some guys cheat when they are not happy, some cheat because they don't get enough sex, some cheat because they fallout of love with their wife/gf, some cheat because they can. Some cheat because they think it is something they feel it is something a guy should do, and I can list a few more reasons.

 

That's very true. Most men want to f*ck as many women as they can. End of story. I have yet to see a normal guy who would turn down the opportunity to have intercourse with a hot & sexy woman.

[aed]

That's very true. Most men want to f*ck as many women as they can. End of story. I have yet to see a normal guy who would turn down the opportunity to have intercourse with a hot & sexy woman.

 

I always had more male friends then female and to behonest, most guys I know don't cheat. some friends of mine have and dated good looking girls (imo almost all girls are sexy in one way or another:o)

 

I think it has more to do with value's and moral boundaries then with anything else!