splitopen Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 i found your post thought provoking and interesting. long-term couples often find themselves frustrated when trying to communicate marital problems to one another and too often the scenario, at least in my home, is exactly as you portrayed. however, that should not mean the betrayed party should bear some responsibility for the other's decision to sleep around. people have affairs for reasons that don't even have anything to do with their partners. a woman can be sexy, available for sex whenever he wants, wear black stockings and frilly garters, be attentive and full of praise, loving and good, cook like a French chef, be hard working and honest, but because she is the WIFE she eventually becomes old and familiar. it is only when the unfaithful realize the high price they pay for their self-absorption - that is the loss of honest love and warmth of home and hearth - that they then turn and feel bad about what they did. i am not in any way responsible for his unfaithfulness. the responsibility in that department is his and his alone to bear. the responsibility i bear is to myself. i did not love myself enough to demand better treatment. i let MYSELF down. communication? i would hope that one day we might get better at it but so long as he is a man and i am a woman it will never be ideal and hardly the true reason why he chose to be unfaithful. this is only my jaded opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
CanadaGuy Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by splitopen i found your post thought provoking and interesting. long-term couples often find themselves frustrated when trying to communicate marital problems to one another and too often the scenario, at least in my home, is exactly as you portrayed. however, that should not mean the betrayed party should bear some responsibility for the other's decision to sleep around. people have affairs for reasons that don't even have anything to do with their partners. a woman can be sexy, available for sex whenever he wants, wear black stockings and frilly garters, be attentive and full of praise, loving and good, cook like a French chef, be hard working and honest, but because she is the WIFE she eventually becomes old and familiar. it is only when the unfaithful realize the high price they pay for their self-absorption - that is the loss of honest love and warmth of home and hearth - that they then turn and feel bad about what they did. i am not in any way responsible for his unfaithfulness. the responsibility in that department is his and his alone to bear. the responsibility i bear is to myself. i did not love myself enough to demand better treatment. i let MYSELF down. communication? i would hope that one day we might get better at it but so long as he is a man and i am a woman it will never be ideal and hardly the true reason why he chose to be unfaithful. this is only my jaded opinion. Great thoughts, but I don't understand why you let "YOURSELF" down?? Also, as a guy, I can tell you why most guys would cheat, very simple, sex, some because their sex life @ home is a rare situation, or in some cases they married a "wife/mother of their children" but they want a slutty raunchy women just for hard sex, the type "the mother of their children" shouldn't do. I feel that can be the same person, I think a great wife and mother, can also be amazing in bed (I have not found her yet, so if you know one in Toronto, let me know!!) Wish you luck is your situation, either way, I hope it works out for the better Link to post Share on other sites
Author jmargel Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by splitopen i found your post thought provoking and interesting. long-term couples often find themselves frustrated when trying to communicate marital problems to one another and too often the scenario, at least in my home, is exactly as you portrayed. however, that should not mean the betrayed party should bear some responsibility for the other's decision to sleep around. people have affairs for reasons that don't even have anything to do with their partners. a woman can be sexy, available for sex whenever he wants, wear black stockings and frilly garters, be attentive and full of praise, loving and good, cook like a French chef, be hard working and honest, but because she is the WIFE she eventually becomes old and familiar. it is only when the unfaithful realize the high price they pay for their self-absorption - that is the loss of honest love and warmth of home and hearth - that they then turn and feel bad about what they did. i am not in any way responsible for his unfaithfulness. the responsibility in that department is his and his alone to bear. the responsibility i bear is to myself. i did not love myself enough to demand better treatment. i let MYSELF down. communication? i would hope that one day we might get better at it but so long as he is a man and i am a woman it will never be ideal and hardly the true reason why he chose to be unfaithful. this is only my jaded opinion. So, you are saying the relationship was in very good standing before the cheating? Was there any depression either of you two had before this occured? As for you 'letting yourself' down, it's true with the saying 'You teach people on how to treat yourself'. If you don't stand up for yourself and let him do things to you that you don't want and not say or do anything about it, it will eventually get worse. You are a person worth being with, you need to have that confidence in yourself. The confidence to say to him 'I don't like what you did', then follow through with showing you are worth something. Like I said before there is always the chance that everything in the relationship is going great, then something out of pure selfishness happens, and cheating occurs. But just by reading your post I sense that there might have been something else going on before (IE. with the communication problem that you mentioned). No it's not an excuse to cheat on you, but communication is usually the backbone of MOST problems. It starts with communication problems. Link to post Share on other sites
splitopen Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Sure, of course, we had problems. All married people do eventually. our marriage was as full of strife and misunderstanding as any other marriage. but i loved him with all my heart. this he absolutely knew and took for granted. as for the statement, "You teach people how to treat you." Well, if that is true, that you teach people how to treat you, then it could be said i taught my husband to take and not give; to keep his emotions bottled up inside and lash out at me in a negative way instead of dealing with himself. i taught my husband it's okay to lie and sleep with other women when you're married. i taught him to be prideful, controlling and egotistical. i don't think i taught him these things. these things are inherent in his nature. i tolerated these things, but i did not teach him these things. about communication, well i suppose what i am trying to relate is some people are just takers. no amount of trying to communicate will work when the other person isn't interested in your feelings. it would be nice to be able to say both partners are responsible for one person deciding to sleep around, but it simply is not true. sleeping around is a choice some people make and they and they alone bear that responsibility. they alone are at fault for the damage they cause to their marriage and their spouse. in these cases, if a marriage cannot be saved, it wouldn't be because the couple never communicated, the marriage would fail simply because one of the marital partners chose to break the bond and it could not be made whole again. now as to why infidelity occurs - well here's my take: infidelity is simply not acceptable to some people and vice-versa. it's all about how you personally feel about being unfaithful, how deep your convictions run. what your beliefs are about marriage and fidelity in general. basically, whether you think it's acceptable to cheat so long as "no one gets hurt" or whether you personally feel it is wrong to cheat at all -- which explains why a cheater is never truly remorseful until they are caught. Link to post Share on other sites
InThisSkinAgain Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I agree with the scenario of cause/result you presented, however, this is still a true statement: "Infidelity will essentially come down to personal ethics. Ethics are what you do when no one is looking." Some people will never cheat, no matter what. Some people will, no matter what. Link to post Share on other sites
CanadaGuy Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Originally posted by InThisSkinAgain I agree with the scenario of cause/result you presented, however, this is still a true statement: "Infidelity will essentially come down to personal ethics. Ethics are what you do when no one is looking." Some people will never cheat, no matter what. Some people will, no matter what. Re: "Ethics are what you do when no one is looking" That probably one of the best statements I've heard in a long time (on this topic) Link to post Share on other sites
TMCM Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Originally posted by InThisSkinAgain I agree with the scenario of cause/result you presented, however, this is still a true statement: "Infidelity will essentially come down to personal ethics. Ethics are what you do when no one is looking." Some people will never cheat, no matter what. Some people will, no matter what. Or it could simply be that that the 'right' circumstances have not presented themselves to test the person who beleives he/she will never cheat. The fact is nobody knows how they will react until he/she is actually in the situation where the temptation is too great to simply say 'I will not cheat'. Cheating does not simply involve sex with another person who is not your spouse. Cheating can also be sharing your deepests thoughts and feelings with a member of the opposite sex instead of with your spouse while keeping it a secret as well. Link to post Share on other sites
CanadaGuy Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Originally posted by TMCM Cheating does not simply involve sex with another person who is not your spouse. Cheating can also be sharing your deepests thoughts and feelings with a member of the opposite sex instead of with your spouse while keeping it a secret as well. Why would that be cheating?? That just having a chat with a true friend. The would mean that all married people can't have friends of the opposite sex. Also, why would someone have a "secret" friend of the opposite sex, that they are not having sex with. If no sex, why the secret?? P.S. I liked you comments about cheating, its very true, no matter how perfect my relationship would be, if I was on holidays alone and Pamela Anderson wanted me, I could not turn her down!! I think most people could not turn down their fantasy person (most woman who "go nuts" and are crazy for Brad Pitt, could not turn him down either) Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I think most people could not turn down their fantasy person I absolutely would if I were in a committed relationship. That just having a chat with a true friend Not really. sharing your deepests thoughts and feelings is allowing them into a place nobody but your spouse belongs. Just like your letting someone grope your groin. Link to post Share on other sites
TMCM Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Originally posted by TorontoGuy Why would that be cheating?? That just having a chat with a true friend. The would mean that all married people can't have friends of the opposite sex. Rarely do people involve in an affair drop their pants and skirts when they lock eyes on one another the first time they meet. Most affairs start as a friendly conversations that over time go into deeper and personal territory until one day the so called friends declare their attraction and deep feelings for one another. Also, why would someone have a "secret" friend of the opposite sex, that they are not having sex with. If no sex, why the secret?? Because they know that if they had told their respective spouses that they were confiding their deepest thoughts and feelings to another man/woman, they would be alarmed and they would be told to stop doing it inmediately because they had violated a boundary that no married man/woman should cross. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jmargel Posted October 18, 2004 Author Share Posted October 18, 2004 Everybody has their own 'deal-breakers' their own point of tolerance on what they can take in a relationship. All married people do eventually. our marriage was as full of strife and misunderstanding as any other marriage. but i loved him with all my heart. this he absolutely knew and took for granted. You loved him with all of your heart, yet there was full of strife and misunderstanding. That says alot right there. You two also had major communication problems. I'm not saying this is your fault, please don't feel like that's how I am coming across. What I am saying 'if' a relationship is good (ie. good communication, no bitter conflicts, etc..) like you posted then the chances of a relationship going sour due to infidelity is pretty slim. When there is so much negativity in a relationship the love for one another starts to get questioned. Feelings get hurt, and one starts to look elsewhere for what they have been deprived of. well i suppose what i am trying to relate is some people are just takers. no amount of trying to communicate will work when the other person isn't interested in your feelings True. And then you need to then make a decision on whether you want to live with someone who is not interested in your feelings and doesn't care about you. I assume you two tried to resolve these problems before the cheating? Or are you making this assumption that he's not interested in your feelings because he cheated? they alone are at fault for the damage they cause to their marriage and their spouse. in these cases, if a marriage cannot be saved, it wouldn't be because the couple never communicated, the marriage would fail simply because one of the marital partners chose to break the bond and it could not be made whole again. I don't agree with all of this. The marriage would still fail even if the cheating never occured. One of the spouses would more likely just up and leave. Miscommunication and misunderstandings are IMO, usually the main backbone to why many problems exist. Have you two ever tried counseling before this happened? i tolerated these things, but i did not teach him these things By tolerating them, you taught him he could do more and more to you. That doesn't make it right for what he did. When he did these things to you, the strife, the lack (or bad) communication continued. The definition of insanity is expecting different results from continuing to do the samething over and over again. Did you actually think he would change knowing you kept tolerating it? You need to stand up for yourself, you are worth being with. Perhaps counseling would do good for you, even if it's without him. Link to post Share on other sites
GirlDown Posted January 20, 2005 Share Posted January 20, 2005 what's a sticky? Link to post Share on other sites
Miffy Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 I think its one of those posts that stays at the top (sticks) so it appears high on the menu list - like the ones the administrators write saying be nice to each other! Some people should take note. Link to post Share on other sites
GirlDown Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Originally posted by Miffy I think its one of those posts that stays at the top (sticks) so it appears high on the menu list - like the ones the administrators write saying be nice to each other! Some people should take note. hey thanks, miffy! Link to post Share on other sites
GirlDown Posted January 21, 2005 Share Posted January 21, 2005 Originally posted by moimeme I think most people could not turn down their fantasy person I absolutely would if I were in a committed relationship. That just having a chat with a true friend Not really. sharing your deepests thoughts and feelings is allowing them into a place nobody but your spouse belongs. Just like your letting someone grope your groin. the first part i absolutely agree with. the second part is absolute crap. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jmargel Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 Why is it crap? Affairs often start by sharing intimiate feelings with each other. When you first met your bf/husband isn't this what you two did alot of? What did it lead to? Sex. Link to post Share on other sites
williewill Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Originally posted by TMCM Or it could simply be that that the 'right' circumstances have not presented themselves to test the person who beleives he/she will never cheat. The fact is nobody knows how they will react until he/she is actually in the situation where the temptation is too great to simply say 'I will not cheat'. This is crap. I have been in numerous situations where I could have cheated. From old girlfriends to my present fiance, the situation presented itself several times. Now I'm no Brad Pitt and girls aren't throwing themselves at me everyday, but there has been more than one occassion where I could have cheated and could have gotten away with it most likely. But that's not what it's about for me. I would never cheat. I have never cheated. I'm not bragging I'm just agreeing with the person before you who said "Some people will never cheat no matter what" and "some people will cheat no matter what." I couldn't even cheat if Charlize Theron was naked and ready to go. And she's on my "LIST" of celebreties that I'm allowed to sleep with if the situation presents itself. And this is coming from a guy who thinks his girl should give it up more often. Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Honestly, I think that trying to understand why people cheat is just too difficult. There are just too many scenarios and monogamy is not a natural instinct for us humans. I think a man could be perfectly happy in his marriage and go out and have mindless sex with someone else. I think that's less true for a woman. I think when a woman has an affair it's a real sign there is trouble in the marriage. Usually, that's the situation where her partner is not meeting his end of the bargain in fulfilling her needs. But I'll probably get blasted for saying this, and keep this in mind, I have been the BS in my relationship, but I really think it's not as complicated for men. Some (not all!) can just go and have sex with someone, no feelings attached, and then go back home to their wife and children - who they honestly feel they love more than anyone in the world - and be perfectly content in their lives (until the wife finds out!). I am really against cheating. To me it's all about self control. Would I like to go out and meet someone that makes me feel 21 again and have mindless sex for hours at a time...sure - there are days I really would! But I never could do that. I love my home, I love my kids and I love my husband, foibles and all. I not only don't want to break my vows with my husband I don't want to break my vows with my family and mostly with myself. My husband has said over and over again, one of the hardest things that he has to deal with in his cheating is how he let himself down. I'm glad I don't have to feel that way. Link to post Share on other sites
MiChick43 Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Philly, I enjoy reading your posts. Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Originally posted by jmargel Why is it crap? Affairs often start by sharing intimiate feelings with each other. When you first met your bf/husband isn't this what you two did alot of? What did it lead to? Sex. Just as jmargel states, the initial stages of dating involve swapping all sorts of personal info that becomes increasingly personal as time goes by. If you're heterosexual and you connect with a member of the opposite sex on an emotional level, then the chances are that at some stage you'll wonder whether you would connect with them on a sexual level too. It's not as if we only form platonic friendships with people we feel absolutely no sexual attraction towards. We like to show that we're open-minded, encouraging of our partners' life-enriching relationships with others - male and female alike. We want to demonstrate that we're so secure in our relationships that we're entirely unthreatened by our partners' platonic friendships. Unfortunately sometimes these platonic friendships DO hinder the participants' ability to pursue exclusive romantic relationships successfully. Platonic friends can become irritated or resentful about the amount of time their "friend" is spending with his or her partner, and sleeping with the friend might - on occasion - seem like the best way to get their full attention back. Once your lover has cheated on you with someone they were already emotionally intimate with, they complete the process of giving so much of themselves away that they have absolutely nothing special and exclusive left to give you. That's why I'm wary of so-called platonic friendships, unless the women who want to be friends with my partner are happy to be on equally cordial terms with me - and remain, so by avoiding any temptation to bed the man I'm with. Link to post Share on other sites
phillygirl63 Posted May 21, 2005 Share Posted May 21, 2005 Thanks MiChick! I always enjoy reading your posts too! Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Why do men look at porn then?does that mean theres something missing in the relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
midlifecrazy Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Why do men look at porn then?does that mean theres something missing in the relationship? The ultimate spectator sport. You guys have sex hooligans over there, don't you? Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Toni, there's no need to drag up every post from years ago to ask the same old question over and over again. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 I was just asking because he seemed to know what he was talking about.Thats all. Link to post Share on other sites
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