Do you trust your MM or MW?

[JamesM]

Another thread is about the ridiculousness of the stories and situations the OW finds herself in. It is by LFH, and I find it an interesting read.

 

I had a question and did not want to derail the thread.

 

Here it is....

 

Since you know and may have heard firsthand that your MM (or MW) has told some rather tall tales to excuse him or her for not being home at a particular time, does it make you feel differently about his or her credibility?

 

Does it make you wonder about the excuses or stories he or she gives you for not being with you?

 

Can you completely trust him or her, or do you think you want to trust and need to simply forget that he or she was or is capable of being dishonest with a very convincing tone?

 

Thoughts?

[LFH]

Another thread is about the ridiculousness of the stories and situations the OW finds herself in. It is by LFH, and I find it an interesting read.

 

I had a question and did not want to derail the thread.

 

Here it is....

 

Since you know and may have heard firsthand that your MM (or MW) has told some rather tall tales to excuse him or her for not being home at a particular time, does it make you feel differently about his or her credibility?

 

Does it make you wonder about the excuses or stories he or she gives you for not being with you?

 

Can you completely trust him or her, or do you think you want to trust and need to simply forget that he or she was or is capable of being dishonest with a very convincing tone?

 

Thoughts?

 

I'll answer. I do trust him. He's lied to me. Once that I know of, way back in the beginning and we sat down and talked about it. I said that he was having an affair with me... and that meant I knew all of the things he was capable of and yet was making a choice to be with him anyhow, but I would not tolerate him lying to me. There are things that it would certainly be easier for me not to know, but I can't have it both ways. Either total honesty or opening myself up to him lying. I told him it had to be honesty or I couldn't do it. There is zero tolerance. I find out he lied, I'm done.

First of all, he's a terrible liar. He has a million tics and tells and it literally might as well be written on his forehead "I"m LYING!!!" when he does it.

Second, I refuse to play the "I don't trust you, I am just waiting ofr you to do something wrong" game. The day I feel the need to check a cell phone, read an email not meant for me, etc, is the day I walk away, because if you're feeling that, somethings already too wrong to fix.

Third, he could have made his own life so much easier a million times by lying to me. Little white lies, slightly bigger ones but he doesn't because he knows I mean it. Plus, he doesn't underestimate my ability to find **** out.

For instance, it would be much easier to tell me that they have kid plans than to tlel me he's taking his wife out to dinner, yet he doesn't hide it.

[ComingInHot]

LHF,

I just really like you. You are such an anomaly. So genuine and honest and so having an A w/MM.

I truly think you are the ONLY person doing this who I would like.

Such an anomaly...

[LFH]

LHF,

I just really like you. You are such an anomaly. So genuine and honest and so having an A w/MM.

I truly think you are the ONLY person doing this who I would like.

Such an anomaly...

 

Thanks. You're one of the very few. A lot of people seem to think I'm just trying to rub peoples faces in stuff. It's nevevinr been my intention, I just am who I am. I made a decision that ended up with major repercussions for my life. I'm just living with them the best I can.

[whichwayisup]

 

We all lie at times in various degrees. The closer we are to someone the less lies we tell, which is why the OW gets the truth when the wife doesn't. The wife is no longer the one closest to the WS.

 

Maybe in your situation that's true and what it's like, but from what I've continued to read on here over and over again, when there is a D-day the MM/MW rarely chooses their AP over their BS. The BS kicks them out and it's the WS BEGGING for forgiveness and telling them the AP meant nothing. Only the WS knows the real truth here, not the OW or BS.

[ComingInHot]

trin;

I don't get you sometimes.

To assume only the OW/OM gets the truth is just that, an assumption. The ONLY one who knows the truth is the cheating spouse. Who for all practical purposes, is a liar.

I don't think it really matters to whom he/she is lying too.

Whether or not an AP chooses to trust the cheating spouse is entirely up to that person but please don't try to justify the "why" of it*

(She posted respectfully*)

[cocorico]

Another thread is about the ridiculousness of the stories and situations the OW finds herself in. It is by LFH, and I find it an interesting read.

 

I had a question and did not want to derail the thread.

 

Here it is....

 

Since you know and may have heard firsthand that your MM (or MW) has told some rather tall tales to excuse him or her for not being home at a particular time, does it make you feel differently about his or her credibility?

 

Does it make you wonder about the excuses or stories he or she gives you for not being with you?

 

Can you completely trust him or her, or do you think you want to trust and need to simply forget that he or she was or is capable of being dishonest with a very convincing tone?

 

Thoughts?

 

I know my H "successfully deceived" his xW for years during the A, even though he never needed to lie. He simply allowed her to carry on believing he was undesirable and that no woman would ever look at him, and carried on not interacting with her any differently from what had always been the case before. So it wasn't so much a case of "being dishonest with a convincing tone" as not rocking the boat. And yes, to me that is just about as bad. I'd rather know the full, awful truth than live in a fool's paradise.

 

Yet I do trust him. Far more than I have ever trusted anyone in my life, ever.

 

Because he has shown through his track record with me, and in every other aspect of his life barring with her, that he is a man of impeccable integrity, whose word is his bond, and whose deeds match his words. I have many ways to corroborate anything he claims, and never have I found the slightest hint of an untruth.

 

Because he knows I value honesty, and he knows he risks losing me if he can't deliver on that. He knows I have options, and he knows how ruthless I am about writing off people who don't pass muster. He knows what my standards are and what he needs to do to meet them, and he knows the consequences of not doing so. And he shows me, in a myriad ways, how much it matters to him to do so.

 

Because he faced up to his shortcomings in counselling, addressing why he let himself down in his dealings with her, and worked really hard at resolving his issues. Because he continues to face his areas of challenge, and continues to work at areas he has identified as suboptimal, and continues to seek feedback on how to improve. Because it matters to him not to let that happen again.

 

Because I know I'll be OK even if he did lie to me, or have sex with someone else, or whisper sweet nothings in someone else's ear. Because my sense of self-worth does not depend on his genitals being chained up in my handbag, or his body lying next to mine in bed at night. Because although it's the biggest interpersonal risk I have ever taken, it's actually not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. I'd survive, I'd flourish and thrive, with or without him, and much as I love him and choose each day to be with him, I know I'd be just fine on my own too.

[ThatJustHappened]

I like the way Neo put it:

 

The BS who discovers the WS is lying to her should ask herself who is he now telling the truth to.

 

So according to your theory, it would also apply the other way around. The affair partner who is sleeping with a married person who successfully lies to his or her spouse should be on constant alert because it's impossible to tell who or what he or she is lying about at any given time.

[carhill]

Since you know and may have heard firsthand that your MM (or MW) has told some rather tall tales to excuse him or her for not being home at a particular time, does it make you feel differently about his or her credibility?

 

When it wasn't 'rubbed in my face', indifference would have been the most accurate descriptor. A recitation of an obvious lie (to the BS) was what caused me to say goodbye to the person in question. This was a few decades ago.

 

Does it make you wonder about the excuses or stories he or she gives you for not being with you?

 

At the time, it computed that the person was married, so my perspective was of course they'd rationalize why they did what they did. I believe this perspective grew out of dating single women and experiencing their 'excuses' and 'stories'. I grew to expect such behaviors from women and they rarely disappointed me.

 

Can you completely trust him or her, or do you think you want to trust and need to simply forget that he or she was or is capable of being dishonest with a very convincing tone?

 

Over time, the dynamic evolved to valuing the moment and not analyzing all the 'stuff'. Each interaction was a decision. Once made, it was effected.

 

Thoughts?

 

Trust, but verify. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since those days of youth. Future MW's who approached me were met with a critical eye. Now I simply avoid them. Life goes on.

[ComingInHot]

Trin, " I don't classify people into liars - non-liars".

 

And there's the justification.... and my point. Just trust the guy because you want to, no reason to justify it. It just is what you've decided*

[spice4life]

I can't say he lied to me except in the beginning when I met him, but moved way past that after many ups and downs. We never discussed his excuses to see or not see me nor did we discuss his wife. Only discussed surface stuff mostly about work, events and stuff like that. I guess there wasn't much room lies based on what we talked about. As far as what his relationship was with his wife and their personal life....nothing was discussed at all. I had zero clue in that area and I didn't ask either. He was very good at keeping an emotional distance let's just say...lol.

[ComingInHot]

Trin,

It simply is what it is in that regardless of whether you believe he is lying to you or not isn't the point. Two facts remain. He IS a liar. You trust him.

 

If you want to discuss "why" you trust him, I'm All for it*

 

But the mention of MM tell truth to OW & not W is something that doesn't really matter (for this topic as it isn't about who tells who the truth) nor is it provable w/out MM being honest which we already know he isn't.

 

It's a matter of yes you trust him and if you'd like, the "why" but don't compare to his W anything here, ya know?*

[whichwayisup]

And what makes you believe the WS is suddenly telling the truth to the BS just because there is a Dday?

 

I'd say that depends on the depth of the EMR. If it was mostly about sex, sure, the WS is likely telling the truth on Dday and doesn't care that much that the EMR is now over. If it was a deep emotional relationship, the WS is likely still lying to the BS, just trying to save the remnants of the marriage which he obviously was not ready to let go off.

 

Re-read my response : Only the WS knows the real truth here, not the OW or BS.

[ComingInHot]

Topic... do you trust cheating MM, if so why...

Trin,

You answered Yes and you explained Why. It was perfect*

 

The side comment about your generalization about who gets more truth or the truth is what "stirred the pot".

 

No biggie though.

[ComingInHot]

Trin, I'm glad you trust him.

We all feel secure when we have people we can trust*

 

I'm thinking, there is probably not a decent way to even answer the OP's question w/out the BW's on here ( myself included) having a defensive reaction.

 

It's just such a put-downy thing.

 

Again, I put my own experience in front of yours. Neither the exOW or myself could trust my H during the time of the A.

He lied to us both.

[ComingInHot]

I know, right!?

It was a really sad time.

[LFH]

Trin, I'm glad you trust him.

We all feel secure when we have people we can trust*

 

I'm thinking, there is probably not a decent way to even answer the OP's question w/out the BW's on here ( myself included) having a defensive reaction.

 

It's just such a put-downy thing.

 

Again, I put my own experience in front of yours. Neither the exOW or myself could trust my H during the time of the A.

He lied to us both.

 

You know CIH I think that's often the case.. in many cases as the OW/OM we can't answer honestly without potentially putting the BW/BH on the defensive. I try to be VERY conscious of it, but sometimes... it's hard. Sometimes in wanting to talk about my stuff, as soon as I put something out there I get jumped on for being insensitive.

I had someone get REALLY snarky with me recently. I didn't report it but obviously someone else did because it disappeared...so I know it wasn't just the way I read it. I hadn't said anything mean, that person just was not comfortable with what I said and lashed out and it hurt me. Me being honest ends up putting me in a position where people say things to hurt me, a LOT.

It makes it a really difficult line to walk.

[ComingInHot]

LHF;

Same here. I believe it's what makes our interactions so volatile sometimes. I feel when I speak the truth of My situation, I offend others here as well.

Like you, I don't mean too but I then have to decide do I lie , tell the truth or just not answer.

 

I try to be aware of threads that I just shouldn't partake as nothing I say will support the topic but other times, I feel it's important the topic have the input & perspective of the BS.

 

This thread however, I probably should have stayed out of now that I think about it.

[LFH]

LHF;

Same here. I believe it's what makes our interactions so volatile sometimes. I feel when I speak the truth of My situation, I offend others here as well.

Like you, I don't mean too but I then have to decide do I lie , tell the truth or just not answer.

 

I try to be aware of threads that I just shouldn't partake as nothing I say will support the topic but other times, I feel it's important the topic have the input & perspective of the BS.

 

This thread however, I probably should have stayed out of now that I think about it.

It's why I only occasionally post in infidelity. If I see something that I think might have a VALID perspective for the OP I will respond. Otherwise I don't want people to think I'm trying to rub their faces in it. I go out of my way not to, which is why I get so bent out of shape when people think that's my goal.

 

I mean, if I were being slapdash in my approach and not being mindful of the BS people would find what I say much more offensive.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry this thread was hard for you. *hands you a cup of tea*

[ThatJustHappened]

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are saying. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I said, rather the opposite.

 

I'm saying that someone who is a known liar tells lies, and therefore should not be trusted by anyone..which is essentially how I read your post.

[skylarblue]

From the moment xMM cheated on his W, he lost all "credibility" with me. So, did I feel I could trust him 100%? No. I felt he was capable of anything because he was 1)cheating on his W 2)the manner in which he did it 3)he had no guilt. Did I trust him at all? I used to say yes, but only as much as I feel a MM can be trusted which is with a grain of salt. I wouldn't have been surprised (disappointed, yes) if everything I'd believed of him was a lie. It's just my mentality of the typical cheating MM. Expect anything.

 

It's not that I trusted xMM as a whole or in the typical meaning of trust (i really don't trust anyone 100% in every capacity) as much as I gave him the benefit of the doubt that certain things he said were true or believed they were true. I know he's lied/exaggerated about things to me. I know he's been truthful about things to me. Do I believe a MM can be honest? Yes. Do I believe some MM have lived up to the trust that was put in them? Yes. Do I believe a cheating (meaning hidden/in secret from the W) MM is trustworthy? No.

 

There are times when I made conscious decisions to believe (again meaning deciding to give him/his words the benefit of doubt) and then came to the realization/analysis that it wasn't true. There are times where I never believed him one iota from the start. However, for a long time none of this was relevant, cared about, mattered, and/or addressed. It was just analyzed, noted, and categorically stored. Regardless of whether I found the behavior as appropriate or not, or truthful or not, I accepted it, but that doesn't mean I was buying it.

 

I used to say I believed xMM because he had no reason to lie to me, even though I knew and felt he's lied to me before (both in insignificant and significant ways), but he did have reason to lie to me. It doesn't mean he did in every/most aspects or he even had to lie, but I'm sure in his mind he had to lie. I'm know he behaved at points in the same manner he behaved with his W (particularly using manipulation to keep the M intact). I know he used same/similar tactic on me when he felt our R was in danger. Why would he lie when he didn't have to, like he had to with his W? Because for him it was not just situational. A certain amount of deception is guaranteed towards the W, yes. However, it's the person's traits/tendencies that will ultimately motivate their behavior, not the situation. xMM had demonstrated (through his treatment to his W during the A) that he was not opposed to using deception to benefit him when deemed necessary with little/no regard to other party involved. The situation (the M vs the A) only implied the level, type, and frequency of lying he would have to do, not the parameters.

[beyond]

Another thread is about the ridiculousness of the stories and situations the OW finds herself in. It is by LFH, and I find it an interesting read.

 

I had a question and did not want to derail the thread.

 

Here it is....

 

Since you know and may have heard firsthand that your MM (or MW) has told some rather tall tales to excuse him or her for not being home at a particular time, does it make you feel differently about his or her credibility?

 

Does it make you wonder about the excuses or stories he or she gives you for not being with you?

 

Can you completely trust him or her, or do you think you want to trust and need to simply forget that he or she was or is capable of being dishonest with a very convincing tone?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I struggled with this. Because we'd had a relationship years ago when he was single and I trusted him 100% then, I started off feeling the same about him.

 

As it was slowly revealed to me that he was a different person in some ways now, plus the logical side of me concluding that if he was lying to his wife why wouldn't he lie to me, doubts crept in. Yes, I wanted to trust him, my heart told me to, but my gut and mind screamed out a different message .

 

Plus, the big thing for me was, because he was doing what he was doing , I lost respect for him ........

Edited March 3, 2013 by beyond

[stevie_23]

There were a few sides to this for me when I was with my ex-MM.

 

I DID trust him because...

 

1. I felt we were kind of "even". BOTH cheating on our partners. BOTH having to hide, avoid and definitely not happy about that. I didn't feel he was necessarily AUTOMATICALLY untrustworthy because he was cheating. I didn't feel that I MYSELF was automatically not to be trusted either.

 

2. I felt (as many, if not all, OW tend to do) that he had a loyalty to ME. His loyalty had switched to me instead of his wife. So even if I believed he was easily capable of lying and hiding (which of course I knew he was), I believed he was telling ME the truth.

 

3. I believed he loved me, and so I just kind of equated this with being truthful (HAH! How naive, right?)

 

However, I did NOT trust him 100% because...

 

1. He was cheating (I know, I'm a hypocrite, but I wouldn't trust myself 100% either if I didn't know myself, and to be COMPLETELY honest, I wasn't totally truthful with him anyway)

 

2. He said numerous times he felt NO guilt at all about his actions with regard to his wife. This was something I did NOT feel we were even on, as I felt a HELL of a lot of guilt ALL the time

 

3. He actually told me early on that he had never felt he could be himself around anyone, he was a bit of a chameleon (I could understand this, as I felt I was the same way) and found it easy to "turn it on" for various people, while feeling and thinking something completely different. He said only I was shown "behind the curtain" so to speak. So...that was like a double edged sword because on the one hand, he ONLY showed himself to me and was apparently VERY open about everything with me and it was a total novelty cause he'd never felt he could do that before, so I assumed he WAS being honest, but on the other hand, he lied easily and changed easily and had done so for years, so...

[Got it]

Another thread is about the ridiculousness of the stories and situations the OW finds herself in. It is by LFH, and I find it an interesting read.

 

I had a question and did not want to derail the thread.

 

Here it is....

 

Since you know and may have heard firsthand that your MM (or MW) has told some rather tall tales to excuse him or her for not being home at a particular time, does it make you feel differently about his or her credibility?

 

Does it make you wonder about the excuses or stories he or she gives you for not being with you?

 

Can you completely trust him or her, or do you think you want to trust and need to simply forget that he or she was or is capable of being dishonest with a very convincing tone?

 

Thoughts?

 

I do not completely trust anyone in regards that I don't think they will have have a time that in some point in our live's they won't lie. But I learned to watch actions over words and trust yet verify to some degree.

 

We have moved on together where this question may really be brought to the forefront. But we are completely transparent with each other. Shared accounts, shared passwords, transparent in actions and thoughts. Is that a guarantee that nothing will happen in the future? Of course not but there isn't one with anyone.

 

What I learned from my past relationship, is their daily coping mechanisms there to make them more apt for worse behavior. My ex husband was a major conflict avoider, would lie by omission generally but would lie to get through a situation. He would engage honestly in discussion if there was conflict and would want to rug sweep it. Did he cheat? Not that I am aware of but the coping mechanisms that were there on a daily basis were there for worst behavior and were frustrating to say the least.

 

With dMM, he will engage in tough conversations, will definitely tell me how he feels , and I have not caught him very often in lies of omission or straight out lies. He was/is willing to do therapy and isn't afraid to address any issues. He is actively engaged in the relationship and does not take a passive stance.

 

Those are the reasons I trust him. But if things go sideways tomorrow, well they go sideways tomorrow. No matter what we cannot control the actions of others or the future. As many have learned the person they never thought would betray them does just that. Trusting someone with your heart is a gamble and there is really no way to prevent if from ever being hurt. You just hope for the best and hopefully have the work in one's self to come out okay on the other side.

 

So I try and work on me, make sure that I am doing the best I can do to make sure that I am not crossing lines either, that I am being open, honest, and vulnerable in the relationship - that I don't have one foot out the door which is my coping mechanism. That I am transparent in my thoughts, feelings and actions and I am actively engaged. I turn to others, resources to keep building us and me, and work every day to make sure I am healthy in body and mind. And that I know I do not need the relationship, I want it. If it goes pear shaped tomorrow I know that I am okay. I am not in a situation where I am stuck financially or emotionally, and so I am here because I desire to be.

 

So yes, while he did cheat, looking at the big picture, looking at ALL the actions, words, thought processes, yes I do think he is a good gamble.

[ComingInHot]

Trinity;

Please understand I mean No disrespect in this question (I'm already kicking myself for asking*) but... are there other things you choose not to categories?

Examples:

Cheaters - noncheaters

Christians - non Christians

Thieves - nonthieves

Etc...