Hypocrisy

[Owl]

Where did you get "ultimatum" from? I simply handed my SO the bottle of alcohol for him to drink from if he so pleased. The same way I hand my body to my MM for him to seek pleasure from if he so pleases.

 

Clearly I misunderstood your intentions in handing him the bottle, and the point of your post.

 

Never mind.

[threelaurels]

It is when given the freedom of choice that you can make the choice to be sober or in this case faithful. Promises and marriage vows promote infidelity as I said earlier because you find yourself locked into an institution where you are supposed to remain faithful because of a decision earlier in life. This makes for hypocrisy. Just think of all the politicians who pretend to be very moralistic and then are caught with their pants down.

 

Some people are built for monogamy. Some people are not. Most married people do not view marriage as a prison. The view that all people are inherently hardwired for infidelity or having multiple partners is flawed. We became a monogamous species for a reason. It did not happen randomly, and it does not contradict human nature for most people.

 

Alcoholics have a choice, but they are slaves to the bottle. They are physically dependent on it. An alcoholic can die from physical withdrawal from alcohol. An alcoholic who chooses a drink in the face of withdrawal is doing so for survival. A cheater who chooses temptation when it is laid out in front of them has no physical impetus. They will not die if they choose not to give in.

[Furious]

I've noticed that a some ow/om take no responsibility for their own choices, another level of hypocrisy?

 

"I'm not the one cheating."

"I feel bad for the BS, but"

"I will take the crumbs I get, but whoa to those BS's who take the cheating spouse back."

 

 

"I don't lie to the spouse, that's on the WS."

 

"I don't owe her anything, she's a stranger to me"

 

"it's WS's mess, has nothing to do with me"

 

Hypocritical, to be a partner in deception and think their hands are clean.

[ComingInHot]

I just found my favorite so far in this whole thread;

 

Rationalizing hypocracy... oh brother.

 

 

Oh, and Athiest scholar, kudos on the converse response/post*

[whichwayisup]

I've noticed that a some ow/om take no responsibility for their own choices, another level of hypocrisy?

 

"I'm not the one cheating."

"I feel bad for the BS, but"

"I will take the crumbs I get, but whoa to those BS's who take the cheating spouse back."

 

Until an OW finds out the MM has another OW on the side, so now there are three women involved, the rules change, and maybe an OW feels more for what she's done to the BS as she herself had a little taste of being cheated upon by MM having another OW. An OW feels betrayed and hurt, like a BS would after finding out about WS's affair.

[threelaurels]

"I don't lie to the spouse, that's on the WS."

 

"I don't owe her anything, she's a stranger to me"

 

"it's WS's mess, has nothing to do with me"

 

Hypocritical, to be a partner in deception and think their hands are clean.

 

Taking responsibility for one's actions in this situation would require an admission that they chose to do something wrong. I'm simplifying grossly here. Good people make bad mistakes all the time. The difference between good people and bad people is that good people eventually own up to their wrongdoing.

 

Doing the right thing is not always easy. In fact, it usually isn't. If I pretend I'm not doing anything wrong, then I have no obligation to do the right thing. I can put my fingers in my ears and pretend my actions don't have consequences outside my relationship with the MP. Morality exists on a gray scale, despite the fact that society says what I'm doing is clearly in the wrong, right?

[Snowflower]

Note that Neo and I have an agreement of sexual exclusivity, not a promise. This agreement can be ended at any time and should be if we no longer wish to live up to it. There is no promise, no vow, since love can not be promised.

 

...just like a marriage can be ended if one or both spouses decides that they no longer wish to live up to the original agreement.

 

I like the word agreement, because that is what a marriage is. An agreement that both spouses will, and won't do certain things. Those things can be as unique as each couple.

 

Agreement, vow, promise...just playing the semantics game.

[KathyM]

Unfortunately, cheaters expect that they can have other relationships outside the marriage, but they keep this intent/desire a secret from their spouse/SO, because they don't want their spouse to divorce them or to have an EMR themselves. If people would just be honest with the SO if their intent to be monogamous has changed, then there wouldn't be a problem. The BS could choose to separate or be in an open marriage. The problem is, the cheater wants to have his cake and eat it too, but he doesn't want his spouse/SO to have that ability, and that is hypocritical. He decides to change the rules, but doesn't want to inform his spouse of the change in rules because he wants to control everything what happens and take away his spouse's choices. I'd call that selfish and hypocritical.

[Snowflower]

Taking responsibility for one's actions in this situation would require an admission that they chose to do something wrong. I'm simplifying grossly here. Good people make bad mistakes all the time. The difference between good people and bad people is that good people eventually own up to their wrongdoing.

 

Doing the right thing is not always easy. In fact, it usually isn't. If I pretend I'm not doing anything wrong, then I have no obligation to do the right thing. I can put my fingers in my ears and pretend my actions don't have consequences outside my relationship with the MP. Morality exists on a gray scale, despite the fact that society says what I'm doing is clearly in the wrong, right?

 

Well said. The truth is almost always very simple just as you worded it above. No brain contortions are required when it is the truth.

 

I think this simple truth hurts! It is why this thread has taken off like wildfire today. It hits close to home.

[Snowflower]

I like your signature, Snowflower, that's really what I have been trying to say from the beginning in this thread:

 

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

 

Thank you, trinity. It is my mantra for how I try to live my life. Everyone has a personal battle they are fighting whether it is an unresolved painful relationship, family problems, health issues, financial woes, etc. I try to remember that in my dealings with people.

 

I don't agree with your POV about fidelity and marriage. However, you appear to be able to share your POV without bashing the anonymous BS posters here. Thank you for that.

[whichwayisup]

For her own benefit, not for mine, it would likely be beneficial for her not to focus on me but instead on her marriage and her own personal growth in life. Nothing is won by blaming the OW. For her to understand that I have my "battle to fight" would benefit her and let me become indifferent in her world and able to focus on more important things.

You may feel she won't benefit from focusing on you (aka asking why you knowingly continued an A with her husband for so long when you knew he wasn't leaving), I wouldn't call it 'focusing' on you, but more her wanting to know and understand why you helped her husband cheat on her so she can work through her pain. An OW isn't blameless though, she has every right to put some of the blame on you..You could have said no to him, therefore no affair with you.

 

It's just not fair to involve yourself in his life, which in turn affects her life, their marriage and then when it ends you walk away saying nothing to do with me, leave me alone.. Owning one's part in a betrayal, whether it helps her or you, is just the kind thing to do. Ignoring and telling her you are not to blame at all, that all the blame should be on her husband doesn't make you less accountable for your part in the A.

[Decorative]

The word kindness isn't to be used as a shield to protect a person from their own harmful choices.

 

One gives kindness, and with that kindness, hopefully kindness is returned. It's the foundation of most social interaction.

 

But the expectation that when we harm someone else, that instead of allowing them to justifiably be hurt and angry, they should turn and offer kindness to an act that a person denies culpability for?

 

No. That's the not the usage of kindness. That's not what it is for.

[threelaurels]

Well said. The truth is almost always very simple just as you worded it above. No brain contortions are required when it is the truth.

 

Exactly. I can think of many cases where the killing of someone else falls into a moral grey area. I cannot think of any instances of EMR where the obvious moral choice would be to do anything other than take a step back and not have an affair. The MP should always consider alternatives to cheating and consider the impact their actions have on their spouse and family, and the OP should tell the MP to get lost until they have gotten divorced if they are interested in a relationship.

[ComingInHot]

Trinity, you wrote " Both are having a relationship with the man they love, hoping he will eventually solve his issues and be only with them."

 

Only to now say, " Yet another difference in our perspectives. I have relationships. I don't invest in them. Certainly not for an output on a later date"

 

A bit contradictory but I see what you're trying to do here. You may deny, which would make sense also. *

 

It has been said a thousand times in a thousand different ways in hopes that the WS & AP will eventually set aside the defense mechanism put in place to protect their heart, justify their behavior and rationalize their guilt & shame to not have to face the inevitable, which is the malicious destruction of another's/others heart & soul.

 

Understand, I'm not asking for anyone to be sorry for loving another, just for Hurting others w/out regard or, compassion.

[stevie_23]

Stevie, I see more hope in you with every post. I find it remarkable really, considering that not long ago you were (it seemed, least) at perfect ease with it all.

 

You seem to really value your partner. Even though your affair has ended, I wonder how difficult it must be to keep maintaining this deception. It must feel like a huge wall between you. I get the impression that you're unlikely to engage in another affair. Do you expect to remain with your partner for life? Does she expect the same? If so, do you really want the burden of taking this to the grave? That's an awfully long time to keep this wall up.

 

If you really want to end the hypocrisy, it's my hope that you find it within you to confess to your partner and that she finds it within her to forgive you. There are many reconciled BSs on this board. And while they may always wish that an affair was not part of their marital history, they have experienced improved marriages on so many other fronts that the reconciliation was worth the effort. Imagine how much closer you and your partner would truly be if you could weather that storm together and make it thru to the other side of it. Imagine being able to put the lies behind you and living a truly honest and authentic life with her. My hope is that you can be self-aware not only of your mistakes but to also be able to celebrate in your ability to acknowledge them, to apologize for them, and perhaps even try to make up for them. THAT is how you dig yourself out of this rabbit hole. And when you start doing that, your self-esteem and pride will return. Consistently make one decision after another of which you can be proud and next thing you know, you will be proud.

 

BetrayedH, well, I’m not quite sure how I have been coming across here previously, but my affair NEVER sat easy with me, not even in the slightest. God no. It’s eaten me up since it began. I have just been in “survival mode” with regard to adjusting to my ex-MM leaving me and so I was mainly focused on that at first, whereas now I’m better able to slowly and gradually see the bigger picture and consider my REAL life and partner within that picture instead of the mini world I created that was my affair.

 

You know…as far as the ex-affair and that deception (inactive deception I guess, in a way, but still relevant. It will always be relevant I think) feeling like a huge wall between us…no, it doesn’t really. But I’m not sure. This is where my mind has lost its balance and perception I think. I had become so used to keeping secrets (small ones, nothing important) for a few years before my ex came along, and not feeling as “close” to my partner anymore, and then I got so used to focusing on HIM and not her, so…now I’m not sure where I am. My relationship with her is still good, and it’s not as if I’m pretending either, or putting up some kind of front or putting on an act, but…I don’t know. I don’t know if I didn’t have that wall between us whether I’d feel VERY different, or if it would make no difference at all because the wall had already been there for so long.

 

Will I be with my partner for life? I don’t know. I think she assumes so. I think…I have no idea. If I do, well…ok. If not, it’d have to be some amazing thing that happened. Like I fell in love with someone who I could actually BE with who was NOT already married and I would then be honest with my partner about my feelings and make decisions about what to do next.

 

Sometimes I wonder if I’m aging myself too early. I’m 34 years old and my partner is 51. She may realistically expect to just stay where we are forever. But…if I’m not 100% happy…am I expecting myself to settle at 34 years old? Even with my ex-MM…he turned 61 a month after he left me. 61. I mean…what? What do I actually WANT from my life!?!?

[ComingInHot]

Trin,

That is So un-evolved to me.

So it has truly come full circle in that the very nature of enlightenment is to transcend the ugly nature that (this analogy is for you Athiest Scholar*) crawled from the bubbling pond scum so long ago , to love all human kind w/respect & kindness and to cause no one harm & heartbreak for selfish gain.

Yet from everything you write, in the manner that would suggest you are "above" man-kinds ethics, morals and principles to create a brand new set that enable you to behave justifiably (in your own mind) have landed that nature right back into pre-evolved beings unable to see past selfish gain at others expense.

 

I am new here Trinity, but right and wrong has been around long before you or I.

It is the same yesterday, as it is today, as it will be tomorrow. *

[BetrayedH]

BetrayedH, well, I’m not quite sure how I have been coming across here previously, but my affair NEVER sat easy with me, not even in the slightest. God no. It’s eaten me up since it began. I have just been in “survival mode” with regard to adjusting to my ex-MM leaving me and so I was mainly focused on that at first, whereas now I’m better able to slowly and gradually see the bigger picture and consider my REAL life and partner within that picture instead of the mini world I created that was my affair.

 

You know…as far as the ex-affair and that deception (inactive deception I guess, in a way, but still relevant. It will always be relevant I think) feeling like a huge wall between us…no, it doesn’t really. But I’m not sure. This is where my mind has lost its balance and perception I think. I had become so used to keeping secrets (small ones, nothing important) for a few years before my ex came along, and not feeling as “close” to my partner anymore, and then I got so used to focusing on HIM and not her, so…now I’m not sure where I am. My relationship with her is still good, and it’s not as if I’m pretending either, or putting up some kind of front or putting on an act, but…I don’t know. I don’t know if I didn’t have that wall between us whether I’d feel VERY different, or if it would make no difference at all because the wall had already been there for so long.

 

Will I be with my partner for life? I don’t know. I think she assumes so. I think…I have no idea. If I do, well…ok. If not, it’d have to be some amazing thing that happened. Like I fell in love with someone who I could actually BE with who was NOT already married and I would then be honest with my partner about my feelings and make decisions about what to do next.

 

Sometimes I wonder if I’m aging myself too early. I’m 34 years old and my partner is 51. She may realistically expect to just stay where we are forever. But…if I’m not 100% happy…am I expecting myself to settle at 34 years old? Even with my ex-MM…he turned 61 a month after he left me. 61. I mean…what? What do I actually WANT from my life!?!?

 

Well, I will say that I appreciate an honest and thoughtful response. And I appreciate that you came back to respond (after 7 pages of Trinity, I was afraid we wouldn't get to resume this conversation).

 

I also respect your hesitation about being with your partner for life. As it is not a traditional marriage, I don't know the nature of your agreement and commitment to one another. I would say that I'm glad that you appear to be done with "active" deception. I might tend to think that there is a continued deception of sorts because she is being deprived of her right to make an informed choice but I will still recognize you for improvement. I think you are essentially done with affairs and that is a good thing.

 

I guess my other thought is that I hope you are as forthright with your partner about your wavering in your commitment as you are with us about it here. As she ages, her options are fewer. It's a cruel reality. She has spent many of her best years on you; don't let her think you will grow old together if that's not your plan. Don't let her waste her last youthful years on someone that isn't really committed to her. I'm not saying you have to decide the rest of your life today or to leave her immediately due to indecision; I'm just suggesting you get really honest with her so she knows the choices in front of her. In my view, mature love is much more about mutual respect and admiration than anything else. The chemical and sexual connections are fleeting. But if you really love this woman, give her the respect of deciding how she will spend the rest of her one life without lying to her about yourself to keep her around. Sadly, I believe it is hard for you to see the benefit of living an honest and authentic life; it's not been your lifestyle. But at least you've seen the negative that comes along from living that deceptive lifestyle and frankly, I think you want out. I hope you find the courage to keep changing.

[Spark1111]

As I said, I don't look at relationships that way. They last as long as they last.

 

Perhaps you'd be interested to know that we do not have an equivalent to the word "committed" to a relationship in my language.

 

I do not see intellectualized hedonism, free-love, free will in you, despite what foreign planet you may live on...

 

I see fatalistic, it lasts as long as it lasts because I cannot, will not, invest in the possibility of being hurt and made to feel less than, and once again dumped by some weak, unsubstantial man ever again.

 

And you spin it as if you embrace this.

 

Lady, either you reside in a world of low self-esteem loneliness and pain where you deny yourself the hope of experiencing or believing you DESERVE more than that, or your man picker is severely broken.

 

And your arrogance and superiority, developed slowly over a long time, is an attempt to mask that.

 

I feel sorry for you.

 

Expect MORE. DEMAND MORE. Feel that you DESERVE MORE. You will and do and can, IF you believe it.

 

Believe it.

[stevie_23]

Well, I will say that I appreciate an honest and thoughtful response. And I appreciate that you came back to respond (after 7 pages of Trinity, I was afraid we wouldn't get to resume this conversation).

 

I also respect your hesitation about being with your partner for life. As it is not a traditional marriage, I don't know the nature of your agreement and commitment to one another. I would say that I'm glad that you appear to be done with "active" deception. I might tend to think that there is a continued deception of sorts because she is being deprived of her right to make an informed choice but I will still recognize you for improvement. I think you are essentially done with affairs and that is a good thing.

 

I guess my other thought is that I hope you are as forthright with your partner about your wavering in your commitment as you are with us about it here. As she ages, her options are fewer. It's a cruel reality. She has spent many of her best years on you; don't let her think you will grow old together if that's not your plan. Don't let her waste her last youthful years on someone that isn't really committed to her. I'm not saying you have to decide the rest of your life today or to leave her immediately due to indecision; I'm just suggesting you get really honest with her so she knows the choices in front of her. In my view, mature love is much more about mutual respect and admiration than anything else. The chemical and sexual connections are fleeting. But if you really love this woman, give her the respect of deciding how she will spend the rest of her one life without lying to her about yourself to keep her around. Sadly, I believe it is hard for you to see the benefit of living an honest and authentic life; it's not been your lifestyle. But at least you've seen the negative that comes along from living that deceptive lifestyle and frankly, I think you want out. I hope you find the courage to keep changing.

 

LOL. Yeah, I always go back to my last post to make sure I haven’t missed anything someone said in response to it.

 

So…with regard to a traditional marriage, I was never really interested in getting married. I never had those fantasies as a little girl. And then from the time I was 18 and with women, I just assumed it’d never happen as it’s not legal. I COULD get married anyway (my best friend and her now ex-wife who’s an insane lunatic got married, but it wasn’t legal) but I wouldn’t do that because my dad doesn’t even know I’m gay (apparently. I’m not quite sure HOW this is possible though as I’m 34, attractive and have only ever had long term very close women friendships, NEVER had a boyfriend ever in my life) and I flat out REFUSE to get married, have a wedding and NOT have my dad there.

 

But…with my ex-MM…we (as deluded as it sounds) wanted to get married. If we got married NOW somehow, I’d be his SIXTH wife. OMG OMG! Lol. Anyway…I really WANTED to get married then, to him. I wanted the wedding. I’m not sure quite why that changed from how I’ve always felt with my partner…just because legally and socially I COULD marry my ex-MM but not my partner? Surely that can’t be it. I’m not superficial. When I think back, way back, I DID want to marry my partner during the first 2-3 years of being together, before my feelings faded / changed. But obviously that wasn’t an option, so…

 

But then…why WASN’T it an option? I mean, if I REALLY wanted to marry her back then, when I was fully in love with her, why not take a stand, be honest with my dad and then see how things worked out. And THEN get married and be true to myself and her (cause she wanted to get married too, but not…you know, desperately or anything). Did I not want to ENOUGH to go through the whole thing of telling my dad? Maybe I don’t care about anything “enough” to endure great hardship on myself. I didn’t care enough to leave my partner and be with my ex-MM. I didn’t care enough to tell my dad so I could marry my partner. Hmm.

 

And also…I really think (and this is SO not an excuse, but it is part of the overall reason) part of why I have been able to keep this affair from my partner is because I’ve been SO used to keeping things from the people I love for SO damn long. ALL my relationships have been a secret at some stage. My first girlfriend when I was 18…half our friends didn’t know, my parents didn’t know. Guilt, deception, lies, secrecy, hiding. My current partner when we got together, again, my parents didn’t know. MORE guilt, hiding, lies, deception. Now my mum knows (has for ages), which is really nice (and she’s mostly fine with it NOW, but wasn’t always) but none of HER friends know…when I visit my friends and family, sometimes her friends still ask if I have a boyfriend yet. Ugh. I never say anything offensive or confronting because I don’t want to upset her.

 

I think I developed long ago this self-concept that I was not ENOUGH just being myself. That I had to lie and hide in order to do what I felt I needed to do to be happy, because if I was open, nobody would be happy about my actions. That my happiness was WRONG and would cause others upset and hurt if they knew. That it had to be hidden for me to actually be able to achieve it. And so with this affair…somewhere along the lines, the wires got crossed in my brain and I started hiding stuff from someone I’d never had to really hide stuff from before. In order to do what made me happy but avoid her pain and upset.

 

And yes, on the subject of deception, there IS still “active” deception even now, because I’m still blabbing on here and she can’t know about that obviously unless she also knows about the affair. Hmm…maybe one day I’ll tell her. I’m just not sure what I WANT. And until I do, I don’t know if telling her would help her in the end. If she DID want to stay with me and try to get over this, well…I need to decide if that’s what I want BEFORE anything comes out, you know? Or I’d just continue blindly stumbling forward into a “better” relationship but not knowing if that’s what I want, and then down the track I’d just end up hurting her again, even worse than before.

 

In terms of letting her think we are growing old together if I’m not sure…well, I’M not sure if that’s what SHE thinks really. We don’t talk about it. It’s been sort of assumed in the past, but probably not for a few years. I don’t voluntarily bring up relationship issues or thoughts between us, as I don’t want to delve too deep, as again, I don’t know what I want and so I wouldn’t know what to say if questions were asked.

 

You’re COMPLETELY right…it’s very hard for me to live an honest and authentic life. I DO see the benefits in others, but for me, I just can’t quite grasp it. As I said, I’ve become so used to NOT having that. I can’t even really imagine what it’d be like to NOT feel guilty about something…to NOT have to quickly remember what I can’t say to certain people. It’s tiring…and also hard to break the cycle, especially as it’s gone on so long and everything has built up on itself and how do I start being honest if it means everything crumbles away because it’s based on lies? (well, maybe it’s not THAT extreme, but hopefully you know what I mean)

 

Thank you again for your thoughts.

 

Hey LadyG, what is a strawman!?? Pierre said this the other day and I was like…what’s that?

[Spark1111]

This has given me something to think about. (I don't know what QED stands for by the way)

 

I've never viewed myself as better. I just have always lived a life where I don't actively do any of those things.

I've never said what I am doing is the right thing, I don't think I've ever implied that I think this was an honorable thing I am doing.

But now, it is making me think.

 

One of the things I am not a hypocrite about is that I don't feel that it is my responsibility to police another adult and his actions.

 

Maybe the other stuff does make me a hypocrite, I've certainly always known I'm not without flaws. I don't know. I need to think about it a lot more.

 

yet, you have asserted another OW is a deal breaker, and TRUST your assumption that this is true.

 

IF you do not believe in policing another, how do you KNOW for sure YOU are exclusive outside of his spouse?

 

You do not and you cannot.

being married is the PERFECT cover for a MM playing the field.

 

His wife assumes he is true to her too! Yet, he is not and you do not find your role hypocritical in enabling his deception of her.

 

So, you would also forgive the OOW who KNEW about you but did not believe it was HER job to police HIS adult relationships?

 

At what point should a line be drawn? At what point does hypocrisy reign? AND does it make YOUR pain less because, according to her, she's NOT being a hypocrite? He is and she has NO RESPONSIBILITY to you and your feelings.....

[Furious]

Damn it! I had this long post written, and I rested my hand on the wrong place on my laptop, and poof.

 

To sum it up, when I was the ow *during the time I knew it, I was the worse hypocrite of all, because I knew in my bones it was wrong. To have witnessed first hand what my mother endured, to have that pain on me as a child that carried over into adulthood. WTF was I thinking, the only thing I can come up with is that I had a self destruct wish. Oh I rationalized it at the time, yes indeed, part of it fed by his lies, but still it comes down to me. Even in those moments long after the affair, years later, and we started seeing each other again, (not knowing he was still married), something in the back of my mind, always tugged at me, I knew that happiness could not come off the backs of someone else's pain.

 

I don't want pats on the back, but just keep in mind the legacy that could

become your children, could well turn out like someone like me, if you cheat or you stay with a cheater.

 

Yes, I'm OK now, but the crap I've done to myself and others.........uggg. It ain't pretty! I guess what I try to convey to some ow, is this ugly baggage is something you never really escape from. They don't realize how it affects you years down the line.

 

 

Don't be so hard on yourself LadyGrey, everyone at one time or another has acted against their better judgement and ignored the hypocrisy in those very actions.

 

No one wants to be lied to, no one wants their reality and free choice stolen from them. I guess that true growth come from experience and self reflection.

 

Hypocrisy is dangerous and far more damaging than some are willing to admit.

[stevie_23]

Yeah, invested tends to imply the person has something to lose or that there would be a negative effect on them if the relationship goes wrong or ends. If there was nothing to lose and no negative impact, why feel the need to do anything other than simply walk away and move on?

[whichwayisup]

As I said, I don't look at relationships that way. They last as long as they last.

 

Perhaps you'd be interested to know that we do not have an equivalent to the word "committed" to a relationship in my language.

 

But you use the word "exclusive" like the meaning of committed.

 

You have invested in Neo. So many years of your life. Your love, your effort, your care, etc..etc.. How is that not investing in someone and the relationship/affair? You say he doesn't ever have sex with his wife anymore since he promised you he'd be exclusive only with you. That's a form of commitment.

[stevie_23]

Ooh, this is interesting actually. When do society’s imposed laws and restrictions actually need to be upheld for the safety and benefit of ALL people?

 

I was thinking this last night…I was thinking about certain people who consider being homosexual is bad, evil, whatever…and they think this because it “hurts others”. (I’ve had discussions with some people who believe this) They say that it hurts the people that love them because of their choice. I say that it’s society’s views on it (SOME of society, that is) that makes certain people believe it’s bad and thus when someone close to those certain people is gay, it hurts them because of those societal things. It’s not INTRINSICALLY wrong. Who you love does not hurt anyone else.

 

But with that guy and the penis at the school…that’s different. Again, yes, it IS natural to be naked, and technically kids shouldn’t feel it’s a BAD thing to be naked, but…hmm. Obviously what that guy did is wrong. And not JUST because of social rules.

[seren]

My view on hypocrisy and A's is that I know, for an absolute that I wouldn't have an A. It would clash with my personal values, with the standards I set for myself, with the values I was brought up to believe to be right and to what I want for myself. In short, my world view is that I do not do anything that will knowingly hurt another simply for my self gratification. I don't expect other's to have the same view as their experiences and standards they set for themselves will be different to mine.

I didn't expect H to share my standards, he, when he asked me to get married, knew without question, that I valued truth, honesty and fidelity. I and he had many a discussion before getting married where we spoke about our hopes, dreams and what we both wanted, fidelity and exclusivity to each other being up there with truth and honesty. So, when H had an A, it was the breaking of trust and honesty that hurt, in reality all he had to say was that he no longer wanted to be with me and have an us as his views had changed and I would have made the informed choice to let him go, with my blessing.

 

That he chose to stay, that he chose to lie rather than give me choice and that he benefited from my input into our shared life was hypocritical. He will be the first to say that.

 

After he told me of the A and after I and the OW had spoken I reflected on her part as an enabler, to deny she had no part in my hurt would assume she had no knowledge of me, of course she did and unless she was living in total denial would know that lies, dishonesty and enabling those, contributed to that. I felt it was to her credit that she didn't seek to minimise that she pursued H, that she loved him and did all she could to get him to leave, even to telling him she would tell me. To deny her part would be hypocritical, no matter how you (general) cut it. For sure the act of betrayal of all

that I thought me and H held to be the bedrock of us was H's doing, but, to do so he had to be helped, to be enabled.

 

I believe in love, I also can see how a marriage or relationship can be broken if the WS has feelings for another and wants to be with them. However, the constant lies, taking from the marriage relationship, enjoying all that being in a marriage brings while not being true to the shared norms while having an A is something I find hypocritical, enabling that I don't so much find as hypocritical, but I do find it hard to understand. I don't, wouldn't and couldn't share the person I love with another, I am an all or nothing woman and I certainly don't do hidden or secret, I want and expect to share my lovers life. I get that some AP's wait for the WS to make a decision, I however wouldn't give another so much power over my future or feelings. My view, others have a different viewpoint.

 

I think that the WS who has an AP wait and love them for a long time are happy to let the situation continue until it suits them and takes the love and commitment from each as it suits. I can understand how it can become the norm to enable this, to wait for the WS to make the decision either way, it wouldn't work for me, it doesn't work for most BS, but it seems to work a lot for AP's and that saddens me. I have wondered if the WS were single, if the AP would accept the behaviour of the WS, if not, then is that not hypocritical, to have values set for self, should it make any difference if the person loved is married or has another, shouldn't a person want and demand more for themselves? I find the WS hypocritical, saying one thing, doing another and reaping the benefit at the expense of two women who love him.

 

For any A to continue the WS must be making sure the status quo of the marriage is maintained, I read in disbelief the lies they tell and get away with to persuade the AP that life at home is a veritable battlefield.

Edited March 5, 2013 by seren