Hypocrisy

[cocorico]

Its a matter of logic to measure the accuracy of a statement by its converse inference. So when you argue that cheating is okay because you would not ge hurt for the reason your sense of self worth is not invested in your spouse, you are thus by inferring the converse: people who are hurt by cheating have their self worth wrapped up in the fidelity of their marriage partner.

.

 

By this "logic", if I say something is not black, you have to assume it *must* be white, as the only conceivable alternative, thereby ignoring all the colours of the rainbow as well as any shades of grey. I am so glad I do not live in that universe! Give me the full spectrum of wonder and delight any day!

[ComingInHot]

coco, not...

[BetrayedH]

LOL. Yeah, I always go back to my last post to make sure I haven’t missed anything someone said in response to it.

 

So…with regard to a traditional marriage, I was never really interested in getting married. I never had those fantasies as a little girl. And then from the time I was 18 and with women, I just assumed it’d never happen as it’s not legal. I COULD get married anyway (my best friend and her now ex-wife who’s an insane lunatic got married, but it wasn’t legal) but I wouldn’t do that because my dad doesn’t even know I’m gay (apparently. I’m not quite sure HOW this is possible though as I’m 34, attractive and have only ever had long term very close women friendships, NEVER had a boyfriend ever in my life) and I flat out REFUSE to get married, have a wedding and NOT have my dad there.

 

But…with my ex-MM…we (as deluded as it sounds) wanted to get married. If we got married NOW somehow, I’d be his SIXTH wife. OMG OMG! Lol. Anyway…I really WANTED to get married then, to him. I wanted the wedding. I’m not sure quite why that changed from how I’ve always felt with my partner…just because legally and socially I COULD marry my ex-MM but not my partner? Surely that can’t be it. I’m not superficial. When I think back, way back, I DID want to marry my partner during the first 2-3 years of being together, before my feelings faded / changed. But obviously that wasn’t an option, so…

 

But then…why WASN’T it an option? I mean, if I REALLY wanted to marry her back then, when I was fully in love with her, why not take a stand, be honest with my dad and then see how things worked out. And THEN get married and be true to myself and her (cause she wanted to get married too, but not…you know, desperately or anything). Did I not want to ENOUGH to go through the whole thing of telling my dad? Maybe I don’t care about anything “enough” to endure great hardship on myself. I didn’t care enough to leave my partner and be with my ex-MM. I didn’t care enough to tell my dad so I could marry my partner. Hmm.

 

And also…I really think (and this is SO not an excuse, but it is part of the overall reason) part of why I have been able to keep this affair from my partner is because I’ve been SO used to keeping things from the people I love for SO damn long. ALL my relationships have been a secret at some stage. My first girlfriend when I was 18…half our friends didn’t know, my parents didn’t know. Guilt, deception, lies, secrecy, hiding. My current partner when we got together, again, my parents didn’t know. MORE guilt, hiding, lies, deception. Now my mum knows (has for ages), which is really nice (and she’s mostly fine with it NOW, but wasn’t always) but none of HER friends know…when I visit my friends and family, sometimes her friends still ask if I have a boyfriend yet. Ugh. I never say anything offensive or confronting because I don’t want to upset her.

 

I think I developed long ago this self-concept that I was not ENOUGH just being myself. That I had to lie and hide in order to do what I felt I needed to do to be happy, because if I was open, nobody would be happy about my actions. That my happiness was WRONG and would cause others upset and hurt if they knew. That it had to be hidden for me to actually be able to achieve it. And so with this affair…somewhere along the lines, the wires got crossed in my brain and I started hiding stuff from someone I’d never had to really hide stuff from before. In order to do what made me happy but avoid her pain and upset.

 

And yes, on the subject of deception, there IS still “active” deception even now, because I’m still blabbing on here and she can’t know about that obviously unless she also knows about the affair. Hmm…maybe one day I’ll tell her. I’m just not sure what I WANT. And until I do, I don’t know if telling her would help her in the end. If she DID want to stay with me and try to get over this, well…I need to decide if that’s what I want BEFORE anything comes out, you know? Or I’d just continue blindly stumbling forward into a “better” relationship but not knowing if that’s what I want, and then down the track I’d just end up hurting her again, even worse than before.

 

In terms of letting her think we are growing old together if I’m not sure…well, I’M not sure if that’s what SHE thinks really. We don’t talk about it. It’s been sort of assumed in the past, but probably not for a few years. I don’t voluntarily bring up relationship issues or thoughts between us, as I don’t want to delve too deep, as again, I don’t know what I want and so I wouldn’t know what to say if questions were asked.

 

You’re COMPLETELY right…it’s very hard for me to live an honest and authentic life. I DO see the benefits in others, but for me, I just can’t quite grasp it. As I said, I’ve become so used to NOT having that. I can’t even really imagine what it’d be like to NOT feel guilty about something…to NOT have to quickly remember what I can’t say to certain people. It’s tiring…and also hard to break the cycle, especially as it’s gone on so long and everything has built up on itself and how do I start being honest if it means everything crumbles away because it’s based on lies? (well, maybe it’s not THAT extreme, but hopefully you know what I mean)

 

Thank you again for your thoughts.

 

Hey LadyG, what is a strawman!?? Pierre said this the other day and I was like…what’s that?

 

You know, this post has helped me understand much better how this has all unfolded for you over the years. Unless you are incredibly brave, I think the homosexuality piece just about forces you to live a life of deception almost as a default. Particularly if you are hiding it from immediate family members, it makes sense that you would start to accept lying as a type of necessary evil to the point where it just becomes a natural part of life. I can see how this happens (and it's not narcissism).

 

I respect your hesitation about coming clean with your partner. Reconciliation is about the toughest thing you'd ever do. It's not for the faint of heart. When I busted my wife, she stayed out of guilt and obligation. It wasn't a satisfactory foundation for us and didn't work. You are right that you need to figure out what you want. You will have to be decisive and fight for her if you decide to stay.

 

I don't think this is the thread to continue this discussion so I'll keep my remarks brief. Stevie, it is remarkably rewarding to release yourself from all of the deception. A friend of mine calls it, living a double-life. She was constantly caught up thinking about who knew what, who they might have told, what she had said to whom, and who could help her cover for it. she was in therapy for years trying to shed her double-life. She managed to escape it and in the process she disentangled herself from 5 depressions meds, a serious alcohol problem (constantly trying to reach "numb"), and eventually even left therapy because she was, quite frankly, recovered. She's been on an honesty kick for about a good year now and is a completely different person. It can do more for you than you know. Please keep thinking about it. I wish you the best.

Edited March 5, 2013 by BetrayedH

[Furious]

Oh, it was obvious already during your EMR that you were going against your own morals. That's an advice I would give all OW, never go against your morals. If your morals tell you being in an EMR is wrong, don't do it!

 

 

Some people's moral code and hypocrisy go hand in hand. Moral hypocrites can embrace deception and lies as long as it's not directed at them.

[nofool4u]

Oh, it was obvious already during your EMR that you were going against your own morals. That's an advice I would give all OW, never go against your morals. If your morals tell you being in an EMR is wrong, don't do it!

 

And if they think being involved in an EMR is wrong, and they do it anyway, then those ARE their morals.

[whichwayisup]

Oh, it was obvious already during your EMR that you were going against your own morals. That's an advice I would give all OW, never go against your morals. If your morals tell you being in an EMR is wrong, don't do it!

 

Have to say, most OW and OM who have posted on here know an A is wrong and do go against their morals. But, the justification is, but I love him and I'd rather have him this way than not at all. Infact there is a newer poster who chose to sleep with a MM yet she knew how wrong it was, felt guilty and bad, yet still is having an A with him. If one puts themselves first above everybody else and emotionally shuts off (aka BS isn't a real person, doesn't exist, doesn't count, throw in the MM telling her bad stuff about his wife, and he's gonna divorce soon) it just propells the choice of getting involved and having an A.

[sweet_pea]

Some people's moral code and hypocrisy go hand in hand. Moral hypocrites can embrace deception and lies as long as it's not directed at them.

 

Ding, Ding, Ding! I think this describes WS' and OW/Ms' to the T!

[Owl]

That it is okay to go against your morals and just pay the prize later? Okay.

 

No, I think that the point was...to claim that you do not believe that cheating/infidelity is "moral"...and yet to engage in an affair relationship with someone (whether you are the one cheating, or the affair partner that they're cheating with)...is something that can be percieved by most as 'hypocritical'.

 

Which was my point to both yourself and LFH earlier.

 

It doesn't matter if YOU are doing it...you're supporting and encouraging that very behavior in someone else simply by participating in an affair relationship with them.

 

Which ties this entire discourse nicely back into the original topic of this thread.

[whichwayisup]

Nicely summed up as usual Owl!

 

Look, I totally get falling for someone. But to carry on in secret for years? To help the WS lie to their spouse for literally YEARS?! Just... wow. It's TOTALLY hypocritical to say you disagree with cheating but then aid in doing it.

 

I agree, though I'm pretty sure Trin won't see it that way as she doesn't believe in marriage and commitment - and doesn't owe Neo's wife anything, she considers her affair with him his primary relationship and his wife is the one inteferring in her relationship with him. I recall her saying this not too long ago in another thread. She has her views and belief system which is most different than most of us, so she feels isn't doing anything wrong. Hard to get someone to see this if they aren't wanting to believe anything different.

[Furious]

Thanks OWL

 

You summed it up perfectly!!!

[Owl]

I agree, though I'm pretty sure Trin won't see it that way as she doesn't believe in marriage and commitment - and doesn't owe Neo's wife anything, she considers her affair with him his primary relationship and his wife is the one inteferring in her relationship with him. I recall her saying this not too long ago in another thread. She has her views and belief system which is most different than most of us, so she feels isn't doing anything wrong. Hard to get someone to see this if they aren't wanting to believe anything different.

 

You know...I totally agree with WWIU's summation here.

 

The problem is...it doesn't matter if ONE PERSON doesn't believe that these actions are "wrong" or not.

 

I can cite numerous historical atrocities that were committed because one person in power didn't have the same moral values or structures that most others do...and had the power to act on their own, unique viewpoints.

 

And that's how I see this kind of mindset. It's one thing to feel that you see things differently from everyone else...it's another to participate in actions that you know many others will find morally wrong...and you're fully aware will end up hurting others when you act on them.

 

That level of self-focus...where your own unique moral viewpoint...trumps that of others to the point where you knowingly and intentionally commit acts (or support and assist in the committing of said acts) that will almost certainly result in emotional devestation for someone else...is frightning.

 

And pretty disconcerting to encounter in someone you've met...even online.

[Furious]

I'm so happy to be me.

 

 

Trinity

 

I hope that one day soon you have the courage to give your MM an ultimatum.

 

I hope you don't have to wait more years of his therapy, so that one day he has the guts to leave his wife for you.

 

Perhaps if you put a stop to his hypocrisy instead of enabling it, he will finally get off the hypocrisy fence.

[Furious]

Oh, I don't do ultimatums so that's not going to happen.

 

 

I'm not surprised, because some people can't handle the truth.

[MissBee]

To me hypocrisy is BSs wondering why OW did not refrain from having the EMR out of empathy for them while clearly lacking empathy for the OW.

 

 

LMAO!!!

 

That's like saying it's hypocritical for homeowners to wonder why a thief robbed their home while clearly lacking empathy for the thief.

[MissBee]

Perhaps it is his staying married that is the alcohol. That's how I view it.

 

In Al-Anon you are taught you can have a healthy relationship with the alcoholic whether or not he stops drinking. That's how I view EMRs.I can have a healthy relationship with a MM whether or not he stops being married .

 

And that is where most people will not agree.

 

You have never explicitly stated what culture you are from but sometimes I would like to know, to see if I know anyone else from your same culture who would agree that these views are cultural norms. You and cocorico constantly discuss your cultural difference and how hedonistic it is, yet it doesn't help conversation since it's still a fabled culture that no one can reference to say ahhh I see...people from place A/culture A truly think this way and it's just their way.

I have no problems stating my culture when referencing things that I do believe are very common cultural behaviors and attitudes so others can verify that it really is cultural and not just my own thing that I've ascribed to an unnamed culture.

Edited March 5, 2013 by MissBee

[Furious]

The last responses have me thinking....isn't it hypocritical for an ow/om to say he/she wants a full time/out in the open relationship with the mm, but yet she/he is too afraid to give the mm/mw a ultimatum? I would say yes....what say you?

 

 

I truly believe most OW/OM are afraid of ultimatums. Perhaps deep down inside they know the answer and it's not something they want to accept.

 

Deep down they know the WS is a hypocrite, and would rather believe the WS is a tortured soul trapped in an unhappy marriage instead of the truth.

[Owl]

The last responses have me thinking....isn't it hypocritical for an ow/om to say he/she wants a full time/out in the open relationship with the mm, but yet she/he is too afraid to give the mm/mw a ultimatum? I would say yes....what say you?

 

I wouldn't say that this is hypocritical.

 

I'd say that the reason most OW/OM don't issue ultimatums is because of their fear of the outcome. They usually want/hope for a full time relationship...but they recognize that they're not likely to end up with that as an outcome, and so they avoid forcing ultimatums that risk this possibility.

 

The main reason someone avoids ultimatums is because they have a strong concern that the outcome won't be the one that they long for. People who do use ultimatums typically do so when they know that the outcome is likely to be favorable.

[MissBee]

I was M, previously, yet had no problem having a R with a MM. And no, that does not make me a hypocrite. You *assume* I would have felt bad had my then-H shagged another. Actually, you could not be further from the truth! I would not have felt a thing, either way. Sexual infidelity is only a big deal to those people whose identity is vested in their M. Mine wasn't, and isn't. My self-esteem does not rise or fall by how many compliments my H pays me each day, nor whether or not he notices other women. I am quite secure in myself and my self-worth does not depend on anyone else.

 

It's not about sexual fidelity as clearly some folks have marriages where they AGREE to have sex with others. Sexual infidelity or emotional infidelity isn't just a random act...it includes lying and the betrayal of trust most times. Many have said that if their spouse wanted to be with someone else, they could have just told them.

 

It is a normal tendency in relationships, familial, friendship and marriages to expect to be respected and to be able to trust that this person isn't lying to you or jerking you around. To require that is not to have your identity invested in your M or to have your self-esteem rise and fall around your M. It's not about sexual fidelity at all but common decency and respect.

 

The way you present it is as though to expect any level of decency is some bizarre concept that only the feeble-minded would expect. I don't know what you expect from your relationship, I know you say sexual fidelity isn't important, but I am curious about other qualities that are important to you and if you see how maybe those qualities get violated when your partner chooses an affair. The way you discuss marriage and relationships, I am not being snarky, but truly have no idea why you are M, (besides wanting to be int he same country) as you seem to be someone who is less oriented toward interpersonal relationships and the skills therein. You have said your career is what you invest your identity in and that's fine to...to each her own. Some find such an orientation cold and shallow just like you seem to look down on those who value interpersonal dealings. I personally value both but my sun doesn't rise or set around my career accomplishments personally, if my interpersonal ones are on the rocks. Career for me is easy, in that I'm good at what I do and expect success therein and it's actually way less work than loving and treating others well...that is a lot more challenging for me and it seems way less people in the world know what it is to love, be loved, to give love than they do other things, as you don't go to school to learn that unfortunately.

[Furious]

Well threatening and actually doing are two completely different things. Threatening is childish but to be an adult and say, this is my expectations and if you can't meet them, then I have to bow out if you can't. See ya.

 

Totally agree, it's quite healthy to demand change and if that change does not happen then you're out.

 

I think an ultimatum is more about the person giving that ultimatum then it is about the person they've been enabling. Nothing hypocritical and unhealthy about putting you foot down and moving on if years and years have passed and you're still stuck in limbo.

[threelaurels]

You know...I totally agree with WWIU's summation here.

 

The problem is...it doesn't matter if ONE PERSON doesn't believe that these actions are "wrong" or not.

 

I can cite numerous historical atrocities that were committed because one person in power didn't have the same moral values or structures that most others do...and had the power to act on their own, unique viewpoints.

 

And that's how I see this kind of mindset. It's one thing to feel that you see things differently from everyone else...it's another to participate in actions that you know many others will find morally wrong...and you're fully aware will end up hurting others when you act

 

My moral code allows me to con people of their hard-earned money. They're stupid enough to be fooled by me, right? Therefore nothing is wrong with my actions because I am not contradicting my moral code.

 

What Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot was also okay, because they didn't contradict their personal moral codes. Pretty sure they all slept well at night despite what they had done.

 

The reality is that morals are decided by general consensus and "personal moral codes" are nothing more than attempts to deal with the cognitive dissonance. If you have no cognitive dissonance, you're probably a sociopath. Personal moral codes mean that the ends justify the means because they work out in YOUR favor. When they don't? Back to society's definition of morality again.

 

The idea is so subjective that it's meaningless. I can shape my moral code to be anything that I want it be.

[stevie_23]

You know, this post has helped me understand much better how this has all unfolded for you over the years. Unless you are incredibly brave, I think the homosexuality piece just about forces you to live a life of deception almost as a default. Particularly if you are hiding it from immediate family members, it makes sense that you would start to accept lying as a type of necessary evil to the point where it just becomes a natural part of life. I can see how this happens (and it's not narcissism).

 

I respect your hesitation about coming clean with your partner. Reconciliation is about the toughest thing you'd ever do. It's not for the faint of heart. When I busted my wife, she stayed out of guilt and obligation. It wasn't a satisfactory foundation for us and didn't work. You are right that you need to figure out what you want. You will have to be decisive and fight for her if you decide to stay.

 

I don't think this is the thread to continue this discussion so I'll keep my remarks brief. Stevie, it is remarkably rewarding to release yourself from all of the deception. A friend of mine calls it, living a double-life. She was constantly caught up thinking about who knew what, who they might have told, what she had said to whom, and who could help her cover for it. she was in therapy for years trying to shed her double-life. She managed to escape it and in the process she disentangled herself from 5 depressions meds, a serious alcohol problem (constantly trying to reach "numb"), and eventually even left therapy because she was, quite frankly, recovered. She's been on an honesty kick for about a good year now and is a completely different person. It can do more for you than you know. Please keep thinking about it. I wish you the best.

 

YES, being gay DOES kind of make it “normal” to live a deceptive, secretive life of hiding and adjusting truths. It is second nature for me now, although I will say that before I started my A, I actually had very few secrets from people for a period of time. My mum knew about my partner. My friends all knew and had for years. Nobody at work did though, and my dad either, and when I went down to visit my parents and sometimes would see my mum’s friends, I’d have to act just…normal or not say anything when they asked if I had a boyfriend. Also my aunt and uncle asked this too the last time I was there. And it’s just awkward. I personally DON’T care what they think of me. I’d HAPPILY tell them, no I have a GIRLFRIEND, or whatever, but I can’t because my mum and dad…they obviously aren’t comfortable. And I know that’s not MY fault or even A fault, and it’s not my responsibility to protect them from something that isn’t a bad thing in the first place, but I always have and so I continue to do so.

 

And now, because of this A, it’s as if I finally got to a place of SLIGHTLY less secrecy in being gay, and now I’ve gone in the complete opposite direction and was in a relationship that PARTIALLY was more acceptable (though the age gap, an A and being online only would NOT be acceptable to most people), but I STILL couldn’t be open about it. God, I’m a MESS.

 

I have always hidden myself (or parts of myself) to “protect” people (from their own societal-based beliefs) or to avoid worry or pain (when I was younger I got stoned regularly but my parents never knew, not because I was worried they’d be mad, but because I didn’t want them to worry about me. They were quite protective when I was growing up), or because many times, me being ME was simply not acceptable. Sad, eh?

 

And yes. Reconciliation. I don’t know if I WANT to fully commit again. I don’t know if I can and still be happy. I can’t go BACK to how I felt before, I’ve accepted that. So I don’t know. This will sound selfish and like I’m taking the easy way out (and I am, I suppose), but I don’t consider it fair to HER to come clean NOW when I’m so confused about what I want to do. I know her. She would most likely not just leave me. She’d want to know why, she’d want to change HERSELF to try to make our relationship better for ME (which is SO not what she should have to do and it’s not what it’s about), it would create a HEAP of doubt in her mind about her own worth as a person, and she’d most likely stay with me but live in fear I’d eventually leave anyway. So…if all that happened after telling her, I’d need to KNOW what I want so I CAN tell her. So I can either re-commit and show her HONESTLY that she has nothing to worry about, OR decide to leave and although this would be horribly painful for her (and very sad and hard for me too), I’d make it clear it was nothing to do with her, and then at least she could start to move on and not be tied to something uncertain and stressful and painful.

 

And yes, I don’t want to thread-jack by continuing in this discussion, but I really appreciate your comments and words and insights.

[SidLyon]

...

 

i also find it very interesting ( and very hypocritical) that some people who really don't see a problem with cheating ... will turn around and run a man ( or woman) down who is mentally or physically abusive to their spouse...it's strange, as they see a problem with abuse in that situation, but they have no problem with enabling a married person in abusing their spouse...the very nature of the affair makes it a relationship that is emotionally and mentally abusive to one's spouse., and maybe even financially abusive..if the married perosn they are seeing was smacking their spouse around every night, would they encourage that too? abuse is abuse...maybe some forms are more extreme than others, but they enable it none the less

 

I strongly agree with this.

 

It's utter hypocrisy in my view for an OW/OM to condemn a person abusing a spouse, but not to recognize that they are enabling/supporting their MM/MW to abuse their own BS.

[cocorico]

I strongly agree with this.

 

It's utter hypocrisy in my view for an OW/OM to condemn a person abusing a spouse, but not to recognize that they are enabling/supporting their MM/MW to abuse their own BS.

 

Even if it were the case than an A constituted "abuse", which I don't agree with, I do not see it as hypocritical to assist delivering a taste of their own medicine to an abusive (by the real definition of the word) BS.

 

Yet the BS that is willing to dish it out, but not take it - that, surely, is hypocrisy?

[Decorative]

Ah, yes. Of COURSE every single BS "deserves" to be cheated on.

 

The only situation in which a dish but cannot take scenario for the betrayed spouse is a madhatter situation.

 

Other than that?

 

Nope.

 

I admit- I am exhausted by the mental gymnastics in this thread. I cannot imagine how tiring it just be to shift perspective to the point where you gather anger towards a person you chose to harm, and then actually and knowingly insist that participating in an affair is okay.

[angie2443]

YES, being gay DOES kind of make it “normal” to live a deceptive, secretive life of hiding and adjusting truths. It is second nature for me now, although I will say that before I started my A, I actually had very few secrets from people for a period of time. My mum knew about my partner. My friends all knew and had for years. Nobody at work did though, and my dad either, and when I went down to visit my parents and sometimes would see my mum’s friends, I’d have to act just…normal or not say anything when they asked if I had a boyfriend. Also my aunt and uncle asked this too the last time I was there. And it’s just awkward. I personally DON’T care what they think of me. I’d HAPPILY tell them, no I have a GIRLFRIEND, or whatever, but I can’t because my mum and dad…they obviously aren’t comfortable. And I know that’s not MY fault or even A fault, and it’s not my responsibility to protect them from something that isn’t a bad thing in the first place, but I always have and so I continue to do so.

 

And now, because of this A, it’s as if I finally got to a place of SLIGHTLY less secrecy in being gay, and now I’ve gone in the complete opposite direction and was in a relationship that PARTIALLY was more acceptable (though the age gap, an A and being online only would NOT be acceptable to most people), but I STILL couldn’t be open about it. God, I’m a MESS.

 

I have always hidden myself (or parts of myself) to “protect” people (from their own societal-based beliefs) or to avoid worry or pain (when I was younger I got stoned regularly but my parents never knew, not because I was worried they’d be mad, but because I didn’t want them to worry about me. They were quite protective when I was growing up), or because many times, me being ME was simply not acceptable. Sad, eh?

 

And yes. Reconciliation. I don’t know if I WANT to fully commit again. I don’t know if I can and still be happy. I can’t go BACK to how I felt before, I’ve accepted that. So I don’t know. This will sound selfish and like I’m taking the easy way out (and I am, I suppose), but I don’t consider it fair to HER to come clean NOW when I’m so confused about what I want to do. I know her. She would most likely not just leave me. She’d want to know why, she’d want to change HERSELF to try to make our relationship better for ME (which is SO not what she should have to do and it’s not what it’s about), it would create a HEAP of doubt in her mind about her own worth as a person, and she’d most likely stay with me but live in fear I’d eventually leave anyway. So…if all that happened after telling her, I’d need to KNOW what I want so I CAN tell her. So I can either re-commit and show her HONESTLY that she has nothing to worry about, OR decide to leave and although this would be horribly painful for her (and very sad and hard for me too), I’d make it clear it was nothing to do with her, and then at least she could start to move on and not be tied to something uncertain and stressful and painful.

 

And yes, I don’t want to thread-jack by continuing in this discussion, but I really appreciate your comments and words and insights.

 

I don't know if you're still reading this thread, but if you have your own thread going, could you please post a link to it? If you don't, I think starting your own thread would help. I think there some circumstances in your situation that most of the threads here don't deal with. I don't know if anyone could help, but they could sure try. I hope you have someone you can talk to about all the crap you went through.