Challenge

[TheFinalWord]

TFW, I completely agree with your idea about the "vehicle" concept being the most hard to account for. But I have a few views on that:

 

1) There IS the mention multiple times in Scripture of "chariots". We've talked about this. Psalms even says "the Lord is among them". In the case of the pillar of fire in Exodus, it distinctly says the angel was INSIDE the pillar.

 

2) The idea of space vehicles is less than 100 years old and didn't exist in the Bible. What word could you possibly use to describe one in ancient times? Even the Native Americans, when they first saw the trains and railroad, called it something like "the swift bull". I mean...what ELSE would they call it? They didn't even have ANY vehicles!

 

3) Dr John Mack of Harvard, a big proponent of UFOs in academia, has talked about how, while UFOs may LOOK like discs, saucers, etc.., that doesn't necessarily mean they are "ships" or "vehicles". They could be something entirely different which our own knowledge base has no reference point for

 

Okay, well I guess my main point is that angels appearing to humans had a distinct purpose which is discernible to the person they appear too. Contrast that to modern UFOs which have no apparent purpose or message (assuming these aren't natural phenomena).

 

With the pillar of fire (and pillar of cloud) it was for a specific purpose and a unique event. The purpose was clear. It is not like modern UFOs which have no purpose and deliver no message. Also, the pillar of fire was God. So again, these are unique manifestations of God. I personally would hesitate to compare God's Old Testament manifestations to modern UFO sightings. During the dispensation of Grace, God is manifested in the Holy Spirit. The job of the Holy Spirit is to testify of Jesus; the Spirit has a specific function. The witness of the Spirit is greater than the witness of any manifestations of God in the time of the Old Covenant.

 

There is another who bears witness about me, and I know that the testimony that he bears about me is true. You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. Jesus speaking of the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

 

Here is Jesus in John 15, describing the dispensation of the Spirit:

 

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. And you also will bear witness, because you have been with me from the beginning. I did not say these things to you from the beginning, because I was with you. But now I am going to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

 

Interestingly, we are the temples of the Holy Spirit and are supposed to be God's representatives on earth (called as the ministry of reconciliation in the bible): All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. (2 Cor. 5)

 

In the bible, angels appear for a specific purpose and with a specific message. These modern UFO sightings (assuming they are angelic in nature) appear for no reason (nothing which can be shown Biblical at least) and with no message from God. Under the dispensation of grace, we have the Spirit, the scriptures, and the church. That is the ordination we have from now until Christ returns. I do not see any function, theologically, for UFOs. Sorry brother, I'm just not convinced. I am also not convinced that the biblical appearances of God and angels is anything like the modern UFO phenomena.

 

Interesting topic!

Edited March 5, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

Okay, well I guess my main point is that angels appearing to humans had a distinct purpose which is discernible to the person they appear too. Contrast that to modern UFOs which have no apparent purpose or message (assuming these aren't natural phenomena).

 

Modern UFOs seem to have no purpose. Whatever they're doing, it's certainly not conspicious and made known. But we have Scripture which says that there ARE angels on earth and they DO "encamp around" those who fear God. They also, according to Hebrews 13:2, are capable of being entertained by people (possibly even made guests at home or worked with) without the person even knowing it! If the person doesn't know it, then clearly the purpose of the angel wasnt' made known. I know you said God always has a purpose for this stuff--and he does--but he does NOT always make it known. In fact, the opposite is often true. The Bible says that "it is to the glory of God to concealeth a matter".

 

I personally would hesitate to compare God's Old Testament manifestations to modern UFO sightings.

 

Why? If they happened in Biblical times, why not now? This is PRECISELY why Christians view the Bible as mythology. They rightly point out that it's ludicrous to think all this stuff happened in the past and then--boom--it just stopped. I understand that CERTAIN things have stopped, such as the need for prophets (due to Christ finalizing God's plan and all being known)--but the presence of angels (possibly as UFOs) is still clearly happening because Hebrews 13:2 was written AFTER Christ left.

 

More probable than saying that all these angelic visits, etc, just "stopped" is to say that, perhaps, we aren't viewing the ancient events correctly. Gos has ALWAYS worked in a rather humble, inconspicous way. Why didn't he just appear to ALL of Israel? Why only to a single representative of Moses? Why didn't he speak to ALL people? Why only a few select prophets? Is God hiding? It's not that he's hiding. It's just that we are living in a world where God is making us live by "faith". Angels SEE God. We humans do not. We are FORCED to believe it all. This is the great project that God has undertaken. This is WHY he doesn't show us all these things. This is WHY he allows angels, etc, to roam the earth in a rather clandestine, secret-agent type manner. He is forcing us to believe without seeing.

 

I love the verse where Elisha (I believe) was at war and he asked God for a sign that he was being helped. God temporarily allowed him (and the Israelites) to see the flying chariots of fire in the air which were going to war FOR Israel. Then they suddenly couldn't see them anymore. The same thing happens today in UFO sightings. Why do SOME people see them and not others? There is even some evidence to suggest that UFOs have the neurological ability to control WHO sees them and WHO doesn't. Dr. John Mack of Harvard reviewed a case where two medical doctors were about to get on train and 1 reported seeing a fantastic UFO craft which actually confronted him and took him aboard...while the other doctor reported a COMPLETELY different scenario, saying that he just got on the train with the other doctor. They were both screened for delusions, etc, and came up negative. Cases like this are not isolated, rare occurences. These objects, whatever they are, can clearly control people's neurological faculties. (Why not? Since the angels in the Bible can clearly do the same: causing one person to become blind, another dumb, while another to drop dead on the spot, even voices to sound in a person's head with Paul on road to Damascus.)

Edited March 5, 2013 by M30USA

[M30USA]

(sorry, duplicate post)

Edited March 6, 2013 by M30USA

[Anela]

I've never seen an alien, but you posted in my thread in which I mentioned that I saw an angel when I was three. I know I saw something - my baby sister did, too - and I dreamed about that encounter when I was a teenager, and scared of living in the area in which we lived at the time.

 

I don't know anything about the bible, or that much about aliens, if they exist. You think that was an alien encounter?

[pie2]

I have tried to show many times in the past that the factual UFO phenomenon (as opposed to the perceived phenomenon especially on TV and movies) is the same as the age-old angelic phenomenon (as documented in the Bible). I challenge people to find ways they are NOT the same. Again, please don't use fictional information from TV/movies, but rather actual evidence by credible researchers (your pick). Once you've gotten some info, please tell me if you can find any ways this phenomenon is DIFFERENT than what the Bible says about angels.

 

Angels from the bible are sent to help God's creation...

 

while....

 

Dr. David Jacobs (a credible source, as he is called a doctor on the internet...and you said 'my choice'), documents that aliens come to harm God's creation...

 

 

It's true...

 

 

...and that's what Hitler did!

 

 

Are we done?

[M30USA]

Angels from the bible are sent to help God's creation...

 

while....

 

Dr. David Jacobs (a credible source, as he is called a doctor on the internet...and you said 'my choice'), documents that aliens come to harm God's creation...

 

 

 

 

...and that's what Hitler did!

 

 

Are we done?

 

Dr. David Jacobs specifically researches the alleged UFO abduction phenomenon. That is different, much different, from the phenomenon as a whole. Classic abductions are 100% certainly demonic. They involve the similar sexual perversion and even hybridization that seems to have happened in Genesis 6. Dr. Jacobs even admits that the GOAL of abductions is to create a "hybrid race". Again, this reaks of Genesis 6.

 

The only question I have is to what degree these abductions are actually physical. They seem to occur mostly during sleep (although there are many exceptions where people have been awake).

 

In contrast, the overall UFO phenomenon, while broadbrushed as demonic, really has no evidence of being so. AGain, I direct you to Scripture. Can you point to EVEN ONE example of a "chariot" which is NOT of God and holy? I actually believed all UFO stuff was Satanic until I realize this. My own brother, an objective perspective, pointed out: then why don't you find ANY demonic "chariots"? I literally paused for about 5 minutes straight and had to reconsider everything.

 

The reason why I believe this is significant is because, I believe, Satan will convince the world that Jesus upon his return is actually a demonic, invading alien. He will convince the world to take up arms against Jesus. He will play a classic game of role identity reversal...trying to make us thinkg the good is bad, and bad is good. He's done it all along and will do it for the culnination of all wars.

[TheFinalWord]

Hitler was an atheist, with theistic tendencies LOL

Edited March 6, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

(The text about entertaining angels unaware, is not applicable as we are discussing "alien/angelic craft" which people clearly recognize as supernatural--the opposite of unaware).

 

That's the problem. We are getting into the debate about what is supernatural vs natural? There is no distinction. To God, everything is natural. Supernatural is only a term to describe sometihng which humans don't understand--YET.

 

What if most "sightings" are merely a third party witnessing an angel (in whatever vessel or means) descending or travelling to an intended recipient of his errand or message? For example, hypothetically say that the angel which appeared to Mary and Joseph was seen BEFORE he reached them. What if it looked like some kind of light or object flashing across the sky? (Assuming, of course, this is how they travel, wihch I'm not saying is true.) But I'm saying most sightings could be third parties witnessing an angel either on his way here or on his way back. Think about how the shephards saw the ARRAY of angels in the sky on the night of Jesus' birth. Do you think those lowly workers ever found out what it was? I bet they didn't. Many of them just probably saw a whole array of lights and maybe didn't even think they were angels.

 

I understand how you think there always has to be a purpose. Yes, you are correct. All I'm saying, though, is that not everybody KNOWS this purpose. To some it will never be known since they see it from a third-party perspective.

 

As another example, do you think ALL of the Egyptians knew the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night was an angel saving Israel? Yes, I'm sure the Pharoah, Moses, and most of Israel knew. But all the thousands of Egyptians workers who were unschooled and unaware of anything except Pharoah's orders...I guarantee they went to their grave never knowing what it was they saw. So it is with UFOs today.

[pie2]

Dr. David Jacobs specifically researches the alleged UFO abduction phenomenon. That is different, much different, from the phenomenon as a whole.

 

His website said that he researches "UFO abductions", which would seem to be a subset of UFO phenomenon (but really, what do I know about this). So, if one aspect of the general phenonmenon is different than biblical angels, then that would complete the requirements of the challenge. But, I have this feeling that the rules of the game are changing on me...

 

They involve the similar sexual perversion and even hybridization that seems to have happened in Genesis 6. Dr. Jacobs even admits that the GOAL of abductions is to create a "hybrid race". Again, this reaks of Genesis 6.

 

I've not read one single account of someone in the bible being taken up in a UFO, laid out on a table, and probed, experimented on or mutilated as "documented" by Dr. Jacobs. So, why are there demonic abductions today, but there were none documented in the bible?

 

The only question I have is to what degree these abductions are actually physical. They seem to occur mostly during sleep...

 

You mean, like someone having a vision?

 

My own brother, an objective perspective, pointed out: then why don't you find ANY demonic "chariots"? I literally paused for about 5 minutes straight and had to reconsider everything.

 

5 whole minutes?!

[pie2]

Hitler was an atheist, with theistic tendencies LOL

 

 

There we go!

[M30USA]

I've not read one single account of someone in the bible being taken up in a UFO, laid out on a table, and probed, experimented on or mutilated as "documented" by Dr. Jacobs. So, why are there demonic abductions today, but there were none documented in the bible?

 

The Bible also doesn't mention dinosaurs, nuclear physics, or the fact that atoms contain neutrons. Doesn't mean anything.

 

The Bible absolutely documents the fact that a hybrid race was made from humans and angels (non-human beings). At that time, it would APPEAR based on Scripture that it was done in a more natural, non sci-fi type means. That doesn't mean, if its being done again today, that it has to occur exactly in the same fashion. Only think about end goal and objective: to create hybrid race. Who knows, maybe they have realized their past attempt failed and now they're trying another tactic by keeping it hidden? Dr. David Jacobs research, afterall, does suggest that they are keeping these "hybrids" away from earth and won't introduce them until a certain day in the future. Highly speculative, I know. But they are all options that you can't throw off the table.

[TheFinalWord]

That's the problem. We are getting into the debate about what is supernatural vs natural? There is no distinction. To God, everything is natural. Supernatural is only a term to describe sometihng which humans don't understand--YET.

 

What if most "sightings" are merely a third party witnessing an angel (in whatever vessel or means) descending or travelling to an intended recipient of his errand or message? For example, hypothetically say that the angel which appeared to Mary and Joseph was seen BEFORE he reached them. What if it looked like some kind of light or object flashing across the sky? (Assuming, of course, this is how they travel, wihch I'm not saying is true.) But I'm saying most sightings could be third parties witnessing an angel either on his way here or on his way back. Think about how the shephards saw the ARRAY of angels in the sky on the night of Jesus' birth. Do you think those lowly workers ever found out what it was? I bet they didn't. Many of them just probably saw a whole array of lights and maybe didn't even think they were angels.

 

I understand how you think there always has to be a purpose. Yes, you are correct. All I'm saying, though, is that not everybody KNOWS this purpose. To some it will never be known since they see it from a third-party perspective.

 

As another example, do you think ALL of the Egyptians knew the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night was an angel saving Israel? Yes, I'm sure the Pharoah, Moses, and most of Israel knew. But all the thousands of Egyptians workers who were unschooled and unaware of anything except Pharoah's orders...I guarantee they went to their grave never knowing what it was they saw. So it is with UFOs today.

 

Sure, I see what you are saying.

 

I can only go by the biblical data, since that is what we are examining. I agree with you that the Word of God is the final authority on all spiritual matters. The bible states angels only come for a purpose and it's clear to those they manifest too what that purpose is. God is not the author of confusion.

 

Regarding the shepherds, they knew they witnessed angels and they knew the message was from the Lord. We don't know if anyone else even saw it so it's hard to speculate. They were out in the fields, they could have been miles from the nativity. The text says the shepherds said they had to travel to Bethlehem (Luke 2:15).

 

Regarding the Egyptians and pillar of cloud, it was not as the modern UFO phenomenon. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the Egyptians and light to the Israelites. The pillar served a purpose even to the Egyptians:

But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord.” So the Israelites did this.

 

Here is the record:

Playing Exodus 14 by Alexander Scourby - picosong

[pie2]

The Bible also doesn't mention dinosaurs, nuclear physics, or the fact that atoms contain neutrons.

 

I agree that many things aren't explicitly documented in the bible.

 

Doesn't mean anything.

 

But I can't agree with this. It seems pretty significant to me that all of the encounters with angels in the bible are helpful for God's people, but none of the "encounters with aliens" today are considered helpful.

 

And, what did you mean by the "physicality" of people's encounters with aliens? It seemed like you were hinting that you think that they were experiencing a type of vision..? (Kinda like Elijah )

[M30USA]

Who is to say aliens even exist?

 

I personally think they are a possibility (in all of the billions of planets, it's hard to believe that no other life exists) but I don't necessarily believe they've found us yet, as we haven't also found them yet.

 

Also, just because some has "Dr" tacked onto the front of their name does not make them credible.

 

Aliens may not exist. You may be right. But again that's irrelevant to the topic at hand. The issue is not proving they exist; rather if they DO exist, the idea is to show they are the same.

Edited March 6, 2013 by M30USA

[M30USA]

Sure, I see what you are saying.

 

I can only go by the biblical data, since that is what we are examining. I agree with you that the Word of God is the final authority on all spiritual matters. The bible states angels only come for a purpose and it's clear to those they manifest too what that purpose is. God is not the author of confusion.

 

Regarding the shepherds, they knew they witnessed angels and they knew the message was from the Lord. We don't know if anyone else even saw it so it's hard to speculate. They were out in the fields, they could have been miles from the nativity. The text says the shepherds said they had to travel to Bethlehem (Luke 2:15).

 

Regarding the Egyptians and pillar of cloud, it was not as the modern UFO phenomenon. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the Egyptians and light to the Israelites. The pillar served a purpose even to the Egyptians:

But I will gain glory for myself through Pharaoh and all his army, and the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord.” So the Israelites did this.

 

Here is the record:

Playing Exodus 14 by Alexander Scourby - picosong

 

TFW,

 

This is why I hesitate to call UFOs "ships" or "craft". They could be entirely different.

 

The fact is that some UFOs look like saucers, yes, but many of them look like flames of fire, such as "foo fighters" during WW2 or the classic 1980s Bentwater Airforce Base case where military experts testified to seeing glowing orbs come down, encircle them, and they looked like they were on fire, with eyes, and definitely under intelligent control. They testified that a larger craft higher in the air was also pointing laser beams at their nuclear facility. UFOs have also been described as various patterns of light, which are self contained and moving as if under control. Even cloud formations have been associated with UFOs. I suggest to you that your notion of what UFOs are, at a fundamental level, has been tainted by popular media and TV.

Edited March 6, 2013 by M30USA

[TheFinalWord]

I suggest to you that your notion of what UFOs are, at a fundamental level, has been tainted by popular media and TV.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I personally do not see it that way. I base my assertion on spiritual matters from biblical doctrine. At a fundamental level, how UFOs appear is insignificant in regards to my perspective. They could appear as smurfs or exactly as described as in the bible and it would not change my opinion. If they are angels, doctrinally, they will adhere to the purpose of angels as elucidated in the biblical text. Speculating beyond that is to now go outside of the scriptures and seek spiritual truth from another source (often our own biases and as you frequently are rightfully state, trusting our own heart is not always a good way to judge spiritual truth ). In 2 Cor. it states that we are not to handle the Word of God deceitfully. I take that to heart and the bible is the standard in which anything spiritual should be weighed, in order to discern the truth.

 

This goes for a variety of topics such as evaluating gospels which people claim are from God (Gal. 1:6-8), prophets (Matt. 7:15) evaluating ourselves to determine if we are in the faith (2 Cor 13:5), and, from my perspective of this topic, testing of spirits (1 John 4). Peace bro, I don't believe in UFOs but I respect your opinions.

Edited March 6, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

TFW, all I was saying is that when people hear the term UFO, it immediately conjures up imagery of saucers from Mars with little green men. The reality of a subject is often different than the perception of it. I don't believe in what society calls UFOs, either. But there is a reality BEHIND it. Unfortunately it has been distorted. That's all I was saying.

[M30USA]

I've never seen an alien, but you posted in my thread in which I mentioned that I saw an angel when I was three. I know I saw something - my baby sister did, too - and I dreamed about that encounter when I was a teenager, and scared of living in the area in which we lived at the time.

 

I don't know anything about the bible, or that much about aliens, if they exist. You think that was an alien encounter?

 

I can't say for sure whether or not you saw an angel. What I CAN say for sure, though, is that what you described HAS happened to people not only in Biblical records but also in modern times according to Hebrews 13:2. Apparently, one doesn't always even know they have encountered an angel. And the purpose of the angel in that particular event may never even be known by him or any other person.

 

You ask me if you saw an "alien". That's only semantics. Angels, by definition, are aliens. They originate from oustide earth. And they don't have to look green to be alien. In fact, in my theory, I consider this a main reason why the UFO/alien phenomenon goes largely undetected: because these angels are aliens and they look human.

 

Just think about the angels who just randomly strolled up to Abraham in the fields of Mamre, to announce that he would have a son through Sarah. They just showed up and said, look, this is what's going on. They didn't give some scientific explanation of who they were. They didn't say where they came from. Nor did Abraham even question him (at least it's not written). Abraham was just like, sure...okay. Sarah is the one who laughed. But notice she didn't question who the visitors were or anything like a modern person would question a strange visitor. She laughed, yes, but the laughter was about their NEWS not about the identity of the visitors.

 

I always wonder how these biblical characters just KNEW they were encountering an angel. Did they even know? I mean, really. Perhaps we only know this because we have the benefit of reading the Scripture in retrospect by the person who had the event revealed to them. Maybe it was only the writer of the Scripture who knew what actually transpired, while Abraham and Sarah just viewed it as 3 people who randomly showed up at their house and gave them some news.

[TheFinalWord]

Maybe it was only the writer of the Scripture who knew what actually transpired, while Abraham and Sarah just viewed it as 3 people who randomly showed up at their house and gave them some news.

 

Abraham knew it was the Lord during this encounter. This was not Abraham and the Lord's first encounter

 

When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.” Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.” The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord. Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” ...Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

[M30USA]

You say Mamre wasn't Abraham's first encounter with the Lord. But in what form? Do you know if Abraham saw the Lord as a MAN previously? I can't recall any.

[M30USA]

Here is more solid proof that God, at least in earth's timeline, has a somewhat hidden means of operating:

 

Jesus, God himself, walked among men on earth and was viewed by most as a mere man. Only 2 people knew right off the bat who Jesus was: John the Baptisy and Legion the demon-possesed man. Everybody else either never knew at all or, as is the case with disciples, it took them a long time. Why? Why, if God is so amazing and makes his purpose know, did his first coming to earth go virtually undetected by the masses? It's because he does NOT always make his purposes known--at least to mankind.

[TheFinalWord]

Everybody else either never knew at all or, as is the case with disciples, it took them a long time. Why? Why, if God is so amazing and makes his purpose know, did his first coming to earth go virtually undetected by the masses?

 

Good questions bro!

 

How do you know who he is?

The Spirit witnesses to your spirit.

 

Rom 8:16 "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children."

 

Why did Peter go from a coward denying Christ, to standing boldly proclaiming the risen Messiah and taking beatings and imprisonment? The Holy Spirit

 

I think you will enjoy studying John 7

 

During Christ's ministry..

 

On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

The time had net yet come for Jesus to fulfill his ministry. This is why the dispensation of Spirit is greater than all other dispensations. It was the fulfillment of God's plan to reconcile man unto himself...

 

After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him. But when the Jewish Festival of Tabernacles was near, Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do. No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him.Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do.The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.

 

Once he revealed himself:

 

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

 

Playing John 7 by Alexander Scourby - picosong

[TheFinalWord]

Another passage in Rom 10, for answering this good question.

 

But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,

their words to the ends of the world.”

 

Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,

“I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;

I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”

 

And Isaiah boldly says,

“I was found by those who did not seek me;

I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.” (Us )

 

 

But concerning Israel he says,

“All day long I have held out my hands

to a disobedient and obstinate people.”