Why I wanted a second-hand WS

[beenburned]

Got it,

 

I understand not everyone has a personality like mine.

 

I am very easy going, happy, and optimist. I am also very forgiving of people that do me wrong. I never hold grudges as I believe all that negative energy is bad for my health.

 

As for the checking or tracking on a former WS after d-day, I have never done it!! I give him my trust, and if he ever chooses to break it by cheating again, he knows I'm definately gone. I will never let another person take away my happiness in life.

 

Yes, you are exactly right about how hard it is to make yourself vulnerable again after being cheated on!! But I look at it as I will give my all to my marriage and H, and if it doesn't work out in the end, at least I will know I did my best!

[Tenacity]

Got it,

 

I understand not everyone has a personality like mine.

 

I am very easy going, happy, and optimist. I am also very forgiving of people that do me wrong. I never hold grudges as I believe all that negative energy is bad for my health.

 

As for the checking or tracking on a former WS after d-day, I have never done it!! I give him my trust, and if he ever chooses to break it by cheating again, he knows I'm definately gone. I will never let another person take away my happiness in life.

 

Yes, you are exactly right about how hard it is to make yourself vulnerable again after being cheated on!! But I look at it as I will give my all to my marriage and H, and if it doesn't work out in the end, at least I will know I did my best!

 

Can I ask a question, beenburned?

 

How are you able to forgive him cheating one time, but not the next time? Is that the line you decided on? Why is one time okay but twice is the end?

 

I can see it in a way, in that he learned his lesson and all of that. But still to me, he cheated on you when he was married to you and to forgive that even once seems like an incredible feat.

[Tenacity]

I do logically understand that if it happens my reaction may be different than what I would expect, but I know myself very well. I am NOT a forgiving person. I do not have a problem walking away from someone who has hurt me, and while I may miss them, and be sorry for the way the friendship/relationship/etc ended, it doesn't change the actions.

 

I've walked away from people I loved a lot because of things they've done, behavior I couldn't reconcile myself with and hurts inflicted. It would devestate me, but it's unlikely that after a lifetime of responding the way I have that I'd change that aspect of myself for him.

 

I'm immune to nothing. I've never said it coudln't happen to me, I'm well aware that the potential is there. I just know that now, in this moment, what I have is reality and it is the way it is. Could that change tomorrow? Possibly.

Chances are, since we have no possibility of this being permanent, it will be a non-issue before that ever comes into play. I just hope that he takes steps to be truly happy before I'm no longer able to be in his life.

 

Please understand that I didn't mean this in an accusatory way.

 

Your words in that post just were reminiscent of things I said back then.

 

I don't know your relationship. Maybe it will last forever. In my experience, though, I thought it would last forever and it lasted only a few years. What I learned is that ex-MM isn't a horrible, terrible man but he lied. To me and to his W. So now I wonder about men who lie rather than deal in a different way with their marriage if they truly have someone that they care about long-term. And I just don't want you to get hurt LFH. Because despite all you say, about not being forgiving and being able to walk away, I know that you would be devastated because I can see how much you love MM from your posts. You are completely invested, heart and soul. And I wish only the best for you, but I also worry for you.

[dreamingoftigers]

Did you see my big reply before it went missing? Has LS changed so much that we're not allowed to miss each other or be glad to see an old friend?

 

In it I stated that I couldn't stay when there was so much fighting and now that I'm back I'll stay as long as it's peaceful enough for me (and everyone else). And here I've already seen censorship when all I've done was promote peace. How sad.

 

Anyway DoT, I've missed you.

 

Apparently LS was "acting funny" the other day and posts were just "going missing." it's entirely possible that they weren't removed.

 

I hadn't received an infraction or warning so that's prob what happened to our posts.

[beenburned]

Tenacity,

 

That's a good question! I'll try my best to answer it .

 

Yes, that is my line in the sand that he is never to cross again!

 

Many BWs are in many different stages in their lives when d-day hits.

 

Unfortunately, our personal financial situations affect how and when we can react, no matter how much we would immediately like to walk out the door and never look back.

 

I was a very young SAHM with 2 small kids when d-day hit. Even though I wanted to divorce him, I had no funds at all, and my parents said we should stay together for the sake of the kids.(therefore no help)

 

So, I immediately went out and got a job, and went to college at night, in order to be able to support myself.(planning to later divorce him)

 

After several years had past by, and I had acccomplished my goal, I had to rethink everything. Why? As he had bent over backward to completely change himself in these years, and truly understood his lack of good boundaries with women.

 

I felt, at that time, it was in the best interest of both me and the kids to see if his change was permanent or not.

 

It was and we are still married today.

[cocorico]

Tenacity,

 

That's a good question! I'll try my best to answer it .

 

Yes, that is my line in the sand that he is never to cross again!

 

Many BWs are in many different stages in their lives when d-day hits.

 

Unfortunately, our personal financial situations affect how and when we can react, no matter how much we would immediately like to walk out the door and never look back.

 

I was a very young SAHM with 2 small kids when d-day hit. Even though I wanted to divorce him, I had no funds at all, and my parents said we should stay together for the sake of the kids.(therefore no help)

 

So, I immediately went out and got a job, and went to college at night, in order to be able to support myself.(planning to later divorce him)

 

After several years had past by, and I had acccomplished my goal, I had to rethink everything. Why? As he had bent over backward to completely change himself in these years, and truly understood his lack of good boundaries with women.

 

I felt, at that time, it was in the best interest of both me and the kids to see if his change was permanent or not.

 

It was and we are still married today.

 

I can understand this.

 

He changed; he was no longer the same man who had been unfaithful to you; he was a man you were able to love, trust, and respect.

 

Moreover, you changed. Your job, studies, etc allowed you to develop aspects of yourself (including confidence that you would be OK) that may not have been there in the same way, previously. So you were not the "you" he had betrayed, either.

 

That allows for a fresh appraisal beyond the "you betrayed me!" scenario, since "you" and "me" are both no longer the same people.

 

It's like a new release of an app - the same, minus the bugs, and with added functionality and greater stability.

 

I can relate to that very much.

[LadyGrey]

What an awesome lady you are and I love your attitude.

 

I couldn't help but thinking after reading your post that I'm glad your husband stopped his "studmuffin" ways.

 

 

Got it,

 

I understand not everyone has a personality like mine.

 

I am very easy going, happy, and optimist. I am also very forgiving of people that do me wrong. I never hold grudges as I believe all that negative energy is bad for my health.

 

As for the checking or tracking on a former WS after d-day, I have never done it!! I give him my trust, and if he ever chooses to break it by cheating again, he knows I'm definately gone. I will never let another person take away my happiness in life.

 

Yes, you are exactly right about how hard it is to make yourself vulnerable again after being cheated on!! But I look at it as I will give my all to my marriage and H, and if it doesn't work out in the end, at least I will know I did my best!

[beenburned]

Coco,

 

You are exactly right about how we both changed for the better!

 

I knew if I drew that line in the sand, I had to be prepared to back up my words with actions.(in case he cheated again)

 

Lady Grey,

 

Thank you so much!

 

Looking back, I now realize there were many things that contributed to both of our being naive about marriage in general.

 

1) We were too young when we got married.

2) We had a mortgage and 2 car payments right after the marriage.

3) We had 2 babies that were born soon after we married.

 

All of this, plus H working a lot to support us, did not give us the opportunity to bond(as a newly married couple), because of the shear amount of daily responsibilities on both of our shoulders!

 

Then he started hanging around with a group of single guys at his job that were definately a bad influence on him.(and the rest is history)

[AnotherRound]

I have always been curious about the "once a cheater, always a cheater" line. I always think of it and think, "why don't people see the obvious flip side of that coin? Once a cheater, never a cheater again?"

 

I think of it like this - if a child grows up in a home with an alcoholic parent, there are two very distinct extremes that become a statistical possibility for them - they NEVER drink, or they ALWAYS drink (obviously extremes) - so, they choose to be opposite of their parent, or they are unable to avoid becoming the same as their parent.

 

So, with a WS, the opposite is just as likely. Unless they are a sociopath or antisocial personality disordered (less than 1% of the world population), they are going to feel the guilt from the repurcussions of their actions - they are going to see the hurt that their inability to walk away (divorce) caused, and they are going to learn from that. Yeah, it could be easier to "cheat" once they've crossed that boundary - OR, they might see the chaos it caused (if it did) and NEVER go there again.

 

I honestly believe that my exMM will NEVER have another affair. I think he gets it - and now realizes that he should have left his marriage a LONG time ago. Long before he convinced himself that cheating was the answer to save his children from being from divorced parents (because he now sees his children are very resilient and are MUCH happier). I think, if anything, in future relationships - he will walk away because he has now crossed THAT boundary. He won't stay because society expects him to, he won't stay because his family is religious and thinks he should - he will ONLY stay in a relationship if it is healthy and happy for him - and his children.

 

I don't know, I think that sometimes we get so hyperfocused on being afraid of things that we forget that ALL the circumstances are different now. Everything in the WSs life has changed - so, it would make sense that he/she has changed also in certain ways. So, their reactions to things, their choices, can't be based on what they did in a previous relationship (especially one that took half their life) as that relationship is over now, and they are not in that situation any longer.

 

It's an interesting thing to me that I hear the "once a cheater, always a cheater" thing - it seems so cliche and so unrealistic that I'm not even sure why it is repeated so often, tbh, other than just pure fear of investing in a relationship. But, in reality, EVERY relationship is a risk - every single one.

[beenburned]

AR,

 

I totally agree that former WSs that have done the introspection, and understand why they made unhealthy choices are less likely to cheat again!

The exception would be people who don't believe in monogamy at all but try to conform anyway. It would be much better for them to be honest with their spouse/partner, and come to a compromise that is acceptable to both people.

 

But there are still many people in this world who don't own responsibility for their personal choices or actions.(they blame others) These are the people that will keep repeating the cycle over and over because they never learn from their mistakes.

[AnotherRound]

Agreed. I just see it going the other way at times too - so, I'm not sure that this "once a cheater, always a cheater" is as true as some would have us believe. And I'm sure that getting statistics on this is difficult.

 

I just know that I personally have made MANY choices in my life as a result of mistakes I have made to NEVER make those mistakes again. I realize not everyone does this - and some people take longer to learn - but I cant' be the only one who does it, ya know?

[White Flower]

well, you're right. I forget the statistic, but most people that cheat and are caught never do it again. They were unaware of just how deep the pain they would cause was and they don't want to be responsible for that level of pain again.

 

Ah, except for the SC who is M to a SBW (serial betrayed wife) that will take him back no matter what sh*t he dumps on her. She will always be looking over her shoulder.

[LFH]

well, you're right. I forget the statistic, but most people that cheat and are caught never do it again. They were unaware of just how deep the pain they would cause was and they don't want to be responsible for that level of pain again.

 

I'd be very interested in seeing that statistic, because from what I've seen and read something like half never actually give up their AP and just get REALLY good at hiding it.

I did do some research, but couldn't find anything to support the above. I'd really like to look into that, could you direct me to what book or study it is please?

[cocorico]

well, you're right. I forget the statistic, but most people that cheat and are caught never do it again. They were unaware of just how deep the pain they would cause was and they don't want to be responsible for that level of pain again.

 

I'm pretty sure my H falls into this category. For him, the A was a means out of a difficult and damaging R, and a way of learning many very I portent life lessons, and gaining the life skills and tools that would prevent him having to resort to that strategy again if faced by similar challenges again.

[White Flower]

AR,

 

I totally agree that former WSs that have done the introspection, and understand why they made unhealthy choices are less likely to cheat again!

The exception would be people who don't believe in monogamy at all but try to conform anyway. It would be much better for them to be honest with their spouse/partner, and come to a compromise that is acceptable to both people.

 

But there are still many people in this world who don't own responsibility for their personal choices or actions.(they blame others) These are the people that will keep repeating the cycle over and over because they never learn from their mistakes.

This is the concern isn't it? When does a BS truly ever know if their WS is done wandering? In the case of xMM and his BW, she always claimed that if he strayed she would cut his b*lls off. Well, her first Dday (decades before I came along) was an anonymous phone call in which she was informed of an OW. She inquired with xMM who denied it. That was easy, wasn't it? She gave him trust but that didn't stop his wandering. And he kept his b*lls.

 

Dday 2, again, years before I came along, she was informed by her daughter that an A had been found in an email between xMM and his new lover. He admitted to not loving his W but would go to IC. Easy, she didn't punish him, he kept his b*lls, and he kept right on wandering. He slept with that woman another 3 years and all through his first round of IC.

 

And though there were only those two small Ddays over the course of 35 years or so xMM actually had many overlapping As with OOW and many clues lay all around for BW to see but she was happy with her very entertaining life and so she never cut those b*lls off.

 

Then I came to town. He dropped all OOW for me and he began a path of counseling, introspection, and growth. I won't bore you with all the details as those are in my 5000+ posts over the years. After deciding he was going back to her, after telling me he was moving in (conflicted much??!), I decided in the heat of the moment that if she was going to take him back she really ought to know WHO he really was and with that I forced him to confess his 20 year A with her best friend. It didn't matter though, she still wanted him knowing what he'd done to her and he still has his b*lls.

 

If you don't punish them they'll only do it to you again. You have to walk away. Well, at least with some guys. If there is a second time you're a fool if there is a third.

[cocorico]

This is the concern isn't it? When does a BS truly ever know if their WS is done wandering? In the case of xMM and his BW, she always claimed that if he strayed she would cut his b*lls off. Well, her first Dday (decades before I came along) was an anonymous phone call in which she was informed of an OW. She inquired with xMM who denied it. That was easy, wasn't it? She gave him trust but that didn't stop his wandering. And he kept his b*lls.

 

Dday 2, again, years before I came along, she was informed by her daughter that an A had been found in an email between xMM and his new lover. He admitted to not loving his W but would go to IC. Easy, she didn't punish him, he kept his b*lls, and he kept right on wandering. He slept with that woman another 3 years and all through his first round of IC.

 

And though there were only those two small Ddays over the course of 35 years or so xMM actually had many overlapping As with OOW and many clues lay all around for BW to see but she was happy with her very entertaining life and so she never cut those b*lls off.

 

Then I came to town. He dropped all OOW for me and he began a path of counseling, introspection, and growth. I won't bore you with all the details as those are in my 5000+ posts over the years. After deciding he was going back to her, after telling me he was moving in (conflicted much??!), I decided in the heat of the moment that if she was going to take him back she really ought to know WHO he really was and with that I forced him to confess his 20 year A with her best friend. It didn't matter though, she still wanted him knowing what he'd done to her and he still has his b*lls.

 

If you don't punish them they'll only do it to you again. You have to walk away. Well, at least with some guys. If there is a second time you're a fool if there is a third.

 

I think it takes a rare kind of denial to survive 20 DDays and pretend your M is just peachy.

[Got it]

There are other punishments besides walking away or removing round objects

 

I agree if there are no consequences then there is no reason to stop the behavior, and lets face it - they like the behavior or they wouldn't repeat it.

 

And completely agree - If there is a second time, it's over. If not, the BS either doesn't care or is in some serious denial.

 

Or cares, understands and acknowledge things but does not have at least the financial, emotional, or physical capability to enforce change. I learned from my ex husband, fear of the unknown is crippling and no matter how much you want something, the fear can keep you back because of what may go wrong. I feel a BS could be in the same boat; like the lobster in the boiling water scenario.

[stevie_23]

I think it takes a rare kind of denial to survive 20 DDays and pretend your M is just peachy.

 

What about someone who survives 4 D-days over a 3 year relationship (including a 4 month marriage within that relationship?) Denial much? Or...something else?