My “Good Guy” fiancé doesn’t know about the “bad boy” in our circle

March 10, 2013

I don't see the part where she says she spent time alone 1 on 1 with Joe, or a lot of time. Where are people getting that from?

I think Matt's way too insecure. I think him asking about details after she told him was his insecurity coming to the surface. I think that's a ticking time bomb.

I also think that in any situation like this, it takes two to tango. This isn't a problem she created...this is a problem they both created in their relationship. It isn't a war. No one has to be entirely wrong or right here. And it needen't be a problem if they can act like mature adults about it and put it in perspective. Ok, so she and Joe slept together. Temptation happens. It happens in relationships, and in marriages, too. Either she's going to sleep with Joe, or she isn't.

How is that a good reason to ostracize someone entirely, because they MIGHT be a temptation?

It's not like there's no other temptation in the world.

Whatever happened to people acting like adults?

If I'm her, especially if I have the slightest interest in Joe, I wouldn't make a single move to "remove him" from the social circle, especially unless Matt acts like a man and tells her what he wants, and whether he wants to move forward.

March 10, 2013

OP, if you want to get married...that means no more former boyfriends hanging around the house, PERIOD. This shouldn't even be a question.

March 10, 2013

I'm a little bit late to this party, and not privvy to all the details, but this story reminds me of what I see when I look at my list of 5 Million Things That Killed My Marriage.

One huge issue was my wife's insecurity. Off the friggin charts. So, there was a girl I hooked up with AFTER I met my wife but way BEFORE we started dating. She was obsessed with the fact that something happened and then convinced herself that I was STILL hooking up with this girl. Caused so many problems, and really started the ball rolling on her insistence throughout our whole relationship that I was cheating on her.

Had I known then what I know now, our relationship would have lasted about 2 months.

March 10, 2013

Exactly.

Everyone has some insecurities. But serious insecurities can be relationship killers, and I see insecurities on both sides here. That is something that needs to be dealt with, via counseling or some serious soul searching, if this is to move forward.

March 10, 2013

If you plan to be married and stay married for life, both of you need to be able to share difficult things and listen to difficult things before they become huge issues.

It's like weeding a garden... pull out the little ones on a daily basis or allow it to become overgrown to the point where the weeds take over and there is no more 'garden'.

A couple of things for you to sort out... Matt needs to be the kind of person who encourages an atmosphere of truth-telling... in addition to you offering truths about important things that affect Matt and your relationship. How does he react to other things you share with him?

You might open with a discussion about values and how you both came to yours. Was he raised in a certain religious tradition? How did he come by his? When he says he wants someone who shares his values... what are the underlying concerns?

Is it his own performance? Is it fear of being compared? Or is it basic boundary setting overall? Can he share how he came to his values? When I was about six years old, I was caught trying to steal a pack of red hots at the local convenience store... I was so embarrassed, I never did it again. So, THAT I learned when I was six. You learned about people like Joe when you were the age you were. That is how it goes. I'm sure Matt has some concrete example of some life lesson he had to learn too.

So, as you find a way to ease Joe out of your life, have some more discussions about your shared values and Matt's underlying concerns. That way, you are in a better position to address the real core issue at hand rather than a blanket one. It will also be a good test to see how Matt handles difficult conversations...

... and regarding how he feels about Joe.... I think it says something about Matt that he blames the women for things. Does it not occur to him that maybe Joe is a good liar? Because you let Matt into your heart... Does he assume women are supposed to be stone walls and mind readers? Because the same desire that let Joe in... also let him (Matt) in... He wants to share more adventurous sexual things with you. Why should you agree? I mean... who is to say he isn't like Joe? These are hypothetical questions meant to push the buttons of people with double standards... but also ones you might ask Matt.

Oh, and I agree with the others that it is disrespectful to have Joe around without sharing with Matt the details of your situation with Joe. Get Joe out ASAP.

Edited: I think Joe needs to go not to brush anything under the rug or to soothe anyone's insecurities... but because I know people like Joe (men and women). They are trouble makers.

Edited March 10, 2013 by RedRobin

March 10, 2013

He said he can accept that I’ve had “some partners” but he does notwant to meet any of them but if we were to run into any of them to tell him. I said no problem and that I’ve had “so few” that this would probably never happen.

For people who've missed this key piece of information, she agreed to tell Matt about past lovers. Had she not agreed, it wouldn't have been any of Matt's business where she wouldn't have been under any obligation to tell.

Also, what's all the "get Joe out of your life" urgency? The two had a fling, one that she regretted. No where has she expressed any continued interest in the guy and if Matt can't handle the other guy around, he won't invite him.

The OP has done the right thing. She's abided by her end of the agreement. How Matt continues reacting to the information will define whether he's the man she should be marrying. If he's going to continue being butt-hurt over something that happened before they got together, then she's dodged a "nice guy" silver bullet.

March 10, 2013

Time to move on.

Yes he still is a nice guy, but has standards.

March 10, 2013

Also, what's all the "get Joe out of your life" urgency? The two had a fling, one that she regretted. No where has she expressed any continued interest in the guy and if Matt can't handle the other guy around, he won't invite him.

Agreed. It's a bit ridiculous.

March 10, 2013

Matt finally did call me back and we decided to get together for breakfast. We had a long heart to heart conversation and basically Matt decided that he wanted for us to break up.

He was as Matt always is. He spoke softly and did not shout or call me names. He does not see the situation as some of you guys here said he should and as I hoped he would.

He figures I lied to him about Joe and insulted him by keeping Joe around. To make matters worse, Matt said that on the occassions he did interact with Joe, Joe would make sideways smarmy comments. Matt thought Joe was being a "dick" but now he knows that Joe was hinting at the "thing" he and I had.

Matt asked if I also lied about the stuff we've talked about doing together. Specifiaclly he asked if if Joe "f-ed me in the ***". I kinda sputtered and Matt took that as a yes. So Matt figures Joe "got all the goods" and he hasn't.

I guess his biggest issue was (and I knew it would be) that he said he can't see himself marrying a girl who was only his third girl knowing that she's been Joe's 100th. He can't deal with that. He also figures our friends know that I was one of Joe's notches and Matt finds that humiliating

People here have said that I should be with someone who accepts me for how I truly am and that I shouldn't have to hide anything. Well, I tried that with idiots in the past and it has never worked out LONG TERM. All the players are more than willing to accept your past as long as they're having fun. But they don't want to commit or get married. So, I decided to change course and was lucky enough to finally meet a genuinely nice respectful guy. That's my Matt. Unfortunately for me, guys with Matt's background and views just don't want a former half party girl. I know that so I fudged things. This is not Matt's fault so calling him insecure and manipulating and so on really does me no good. I screwed it up with him and I just wish I couldmake things better.

Our talk sort of ended when Matt stopped talking. I said I really wanted to talk more later and Matt kinda just shrugged.

Not much else to say. I am like so completely depressed I don't know whether to cry or to laugh. Even if we do meet up later I don't even know where to begin.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Jessie2013

March 10, 2013

Jessie, if you were to do this all over again starting at meeting Matt, how would you have handled it?

March 10, 2013

Matt finally did call me back and we decided to get together for breakfast. We had a long heart to heart conversation and basically Matt decided that he wanted for us to break up.

He was as Matt always is. He spoke softly and did not shout or call me names. He does not see the situation as some of you guys here said he should and as I hoped he would.

He figures I lied to him about Joe and insulted him by keeping Joe around. To make matters worse, Matt said that on the occassions he did interact with Joe, Joe would make sideways smarmy comments. Matt thought Joe was being a "dick" but now he knows that Joe was hinting at the "thing" he and I had.

Matt asked if I also lied about the stuff we've talked about doing together. Specifiaclly he asked if if Joe "f-ed me in the ***". I kinda sputtered and Matt took that as a yes. So Matt figures Joe "got all the goods" and he hasn't.

I guess his biggest issue was (and I knew it would be) that he said he can't see himself marrying a girl who was only his third girl knowing that she's been Joe's 100th. He can't deal with that. He also figures our friends know that I was one of Joe's notches and Matt finds that humiliating

People here have said that I should be with someone who accepts me for how I truly am and that I shouldn't have to hide anything. Well, I tried that with idiots in the past and it has never worked out LONG TERM. All the players are more than willing to accept your past as long as they're having fun. But they don't want to commit or get married. So, I decided to change course and was lucky enough to finally meet a genuinely nice respectful guy. That's my Matt. Unfortunately for me, guys with Matt's background and views just don't want a former half party girl. I know that so I fudged things. This is not Matt's fault so calling him insecure and manipulating and so on really does me no good. I screwed it up with him and I just wish I couldmake things better.

Our talk sort of ended when Matt stopped talking. I said I really wanted to talk more later and Matt kinda just shrugged.

Not much else to say. I am like so completely depressed I don't know whether to cry or to laugh. Even if we do meet up later I don't even know where to begin.

Ahhh lame.

You both seem like genuinely nice people. I have nothing to say, but hopefully this all works out between the 2 of you.

March 10, 2013

He sounds really insecure, and almost as if he's blaming you for the way that Joe has treated him in general.

You probably did the right thing, given the situation. I'm disappointed in him, and honestly don't think he has much passion for this relationship, based on what you've said, and how quickly he made up his mind.

I know it hurts, but if you do break up, you'll be fine. There are men out there who aren't obsessed with your past. You don't have to find a party boy to have someone accept that you were once a party girl.

March 10, 2013

I know you don't want to hear a lecture Jesse but Im still astounded you kept Joe around this whole time. You really disrespected Matt. In the end you chose your reputation and/or your social circle (and Joe as well) over Matt. And so he dumped you so he can find a woman who actually puts him first---BEFORE her friends and reputation.

If you are at all sincere of getting Matt back you need to get rid of your social circle. Whatever it takes to get rid of Joe. THEN when or if you and Matt talk again you will actually have shown with your actions that you are putting Matt first (for a change). If you arent willing to do that then you're crying crocodile tears.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Imajerk17

March 10, 2013

He sounds really insecure, and almost as if he's blaming you for the way that Joe has treated him in general.

You probably did the right thing, given the situation. I'm disappointed in him, and honestly don't think he has much passion for this relationship, based on what you've said, and how quickly he made up his mind.

I know it hurts, but if you do break up, you'll be fine. There are men out there who aren't obsessed with your past. You don't have to find a party boy to have someone accept that you were once a party girl.

It's not really the "past" if the guy is hanging around.

I don't know one guy OR girl who would tolerate someone hanging around like the jerk guy does. 1.) He sounds like a jackass 2.) He banged the fiance, every which way apparently, at some point

This thread reeks of internet forum conjecture if you ask me.

March 10, 2013

I know you don't want to hear a lecture Jesse but Im still astounded you kept Joe around this whole time. You really disrespected Matt. In the end you chose your reputation and/or your social circle (and Joe as well) over Matt. And so he dumped you so he can find a woman who actually puts him first---BEFORE her friends and reputation.

If you are at all sincere of getting Matt back you need to get rid of your social circle. Whatever it takes to get rid of Joe. THEN when or if you and Matt talk again you will actually have shown with your actions that you are putting Matt first (for a change). If you arent willing to do that then you're crying crocodile tears.

Even if she cut Joe out of her life and Joe died tomorrow, Matt would still be upset that his "third" was some d-bag's "100th." There's nothing she can do to help or make him get over that. Even if she had told him the truth from the start, he probably would've had a problem with it since it sounds like he's judging her for what she did with Joe in the past above the actual lying.

March 10, 2013

Matt finally did call me back and we decided to get together for breakfast. We had a long heart to heart conversation and basically Matt decided that he wanted for us to break up.

He was as Matt always is. He spoke softly and did not shout or call me names. He does not see the situation as some of you guys here said he should and as I hoped he would.

He figures I lied to him about Joe and insulted him by keeping Joe around. To make matters worse, Matt said that on the occassions he did interact with Joe, Joe would make sideways smarmy comments. Matt thought Joe was being a "dick" but now he knows that Joe was hinting at the "thing" he and I had.

Matt asked if I also lied about the stuff we've talked about doing together. Specifiaclly he asked if if Joe "f-ed me in the ***". I kinda sputtered and Matt took that as a yes. So Matt figures Joe "got all the goods" and he hasn't.

I guess his biggest issue was (and I knew it would be) that he said he can't see himself marrying a girl who was only his third girl knowing that she's been Joe's 100th. He can't deal with that. He also figures our friends know that I was one of Joe's notches and Matt finds that humiliating

People here have said that I should be with someone who accepts me for how I truly am and that I shouldn't have to hide anything. Well, I tried that with idiots in the past and it has never worked out LONG TERM. All the players are more than willing to accept your past as long as they're having fun. But they don't want to commit or get married. So, I decided to change course and was lucky enough to finally meet a genuinely nice respectful guy. That's my Matt. Unfortunately for me, guys with Matt's background and views just don't want a former half party girl. I know that so I fudged things. This is not Matt's fault so calling him insecure and manipulating and so on really does me no good. I screwed it up with him and I just wish I couldmake things better.

Our talk sort of ended when Matt stopped talking. I said I really wanted to talk more later and Matt kinda just shrugged.

Not much else to say. I am like so completely depressed I don't know whether to cry or to laugh. Even if we do meet up later I don't even know where to begin.

very honest post Jessie!

And I think you made it well: not every guy has the looks, skills to become a joe. But they all have options to lower or own value's (like sleeping with hookers, going to stripclubs, going on sex vacations etc) The problem is guys like joe are doing those things!

Guys like matt just keep a low profile and are looking for something in the longrun and are saving them self in some way and are looking for girls that are doing the same thing. Like you pointed out perfectly they don't want a former party girl (maybe they couldn't get girls easy, but having allot of sex is easy like I said by going to hookers etc). The party girl want (prefers) something stable and love what they hope to get from joe. People like matt think: well party girls don't look at me, but when I have my own house, have a great job and my life in order for something serious they nock on my door and "now I am good enough". They see that guys like them cheated on million times more then guys like joe

It looks for them that they should be happy because a girl is wanting to be with them (and they don't like partygirls, because they think and experience those girls don't want them, only when they are hurt by players and then they settle for guys like matt.

Even tough I have the impression from your posts, you love matt for who he is but it was unfair to him.

Just keep in contact and see how things go. ask him how he is doing and show him by your action he is the one you want and the life you want. So dont go dating other people soon, don't hook up etc. Because when you do that you only give him the idea he has at the moment was right..

March 10, 2013

Even if she cut Joe out of her life and Joe died tomorrow, Matt would still be upset that his "third" was some d-bag's "100th." There's nothing she can do to help or make him get over that. Even if she had told him the truth from the start, he probably would've had a problem with it since it sounds like he's judging her for what she did with Joe in the past above the actual lying.

If she tolled him, judging by his action now (breaking up with his fiance because she lied to him). He would't even be with her.

March 10, 2013

Sounds like Matt wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

It's ok for HIM to want to do the things you and Joe did... but not ok for you? Are you grilling him about what he did with his exes? No.

Matt sounds like a hypocrite... I don't imagine you'd have much luck having conversations of any depth or substance in a marriage with a guy like that. Seriously. If it wasn't this, it would be something else with guys like this. They need to have something to hang over a woman's head so that they can stay in control.

My advice is not to chase after him. Let him go.

March 10, 2013

I wouldnt go into the graphics of hwo he has made love to you........and joe is not important to you now is he? so as other posters have said phase joe out..I am friends with my exes and i actually like nice guys....my exes have been dicks to me in a relationship that is why they are now my exes..cheats...but out of a relationship they have redeeming qualities...and i would like to introduce the guy who is with me to them.......if the guy i was with felt insecure.......which fi he truly knew me he wouldnt....but if he did....my choice would lie with the guy i was with...my exes know i am faithful in a relationship....they were both players.....they have settled a bit as players often do .....the fact is i am not a player.......but again i fit came to the crunch.......i would choose the guy i was with, thats has a future, my past isnt changeable and needs to be accepted .....as yours does....

but you, i guess now, have to make a choice, on who is more important to you....mr right now and all the tomorrows that you share together with matt...or.......mr yesterday JOE who has no say in any tomorrow you have....

you also need to tell matt the truth...secrets when they bite you in the butt sting more than the truth given as to forgo the sting(preemptive strike) and truth is necessary to build a relationship that is based on honesty and understanding.......i wish you all the best in honesty and the tomorrows that are based on that honesty.......deb

March 10, 2013

Sounds like Matt wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

It's ok for HIM to want to do the things you and Joe did... but not ok for you? Are you grilling him about what he did with his exes? No.

Matt sounds like a hypocrite... I don't imagine you'd have much luck having conversations of any depth or substance in a marriage with a guy like that. Seriously. If it wasn't this, it would be something else with guys like this. They need to have something to hang over a woman's head so that they can stay in control.

My advice is not to chase after him. Let him go.

I don't understand why everyone is getting on Matt like this.

He seems like a good guy that was just hurt because Jessie wasn't upfront with him. I think he's more naive than insecure.

Jessie seems good too. She just made some mistakes and didn't really know how to handle the situation.

She was honest and did the right thing, but it bit her in the butt.

I think a good lesson for her next time is to either be honest about it up front or cut that Joe guy out of her life. I don't think anybody would be comfortable with her ex-FWB coming around all the time, ESPECIALLY if he's a douche, which it sounds like this guy (Joe) is.

March 10, 2013

Sounds like Matt wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

It's ok for HIM to want to do the things you and Joe did... but not ok for you? Are you grilling him about what he did with his exes? No.

Matt sounds like a hypocrite... I don't imagine you'd have much luck having conversations of any depth or substance in a marriage with a guy like that. Seriously. If it wasn't this, it would be something else with guys like this. They need to have something to hang over a woman's head so that they can stay in control.

My advice is not to chase after him. Let him go.

There's nothing in her descriptions of this guy that suggests what sort of conversations they may or may not have. This is ridiculous.

March 10, 2013

There's nothing in her descriptions of this guy that suggests what sort of conversations they may or may not have. This is ridiculous.

just accept: that some girls have a big problem when guys have there own boundaries and values.

When those guys say I don't want to marry girls type a, because of this... he is insecure and douche.

when a girl says I dont want to date/marry guys like B. it is normal and girls with the same mindset saying: you go girl!

double standards double standards.

the choice a former party girls made: for stopping with the players is the same choiche people like matt make for not dating former party girls. It is only from a different angle.

March 10, 2013

It's not really the "past"if the guy is hanging around.

I don't know one guy OR girl who would tolerate someone hanging around like thejerk guy does. 1.) He sounds like a jackass 2.) He banged the fiance, everywhich way apparently, at some point

I know plenty of them. They’re called mature adults. Mature adults understand that people have needs, and that people occassionally sleep with someone and still are able to be social, without running away from that person they slept with once and pretending that they don't exist.