ComingInHot Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 trin, " was sharing something I thought might be helpful to BSs. Unfortunately it seems to me most BSs on LS would rather perpetuate their sense of being a victim than strive to heal from the infidelity." I am So excited right now because of the above post! We do have something in common. * You are here to "help" the BS and I am here to Help OW/OM. * Difference is, I am sincerely kind, and honest and will bend over backwards to lend support to those that want/ask for it And try to show respect for those that don't want need it while You, well, don't. But maybe it's me I guess I don't classify victims/non-victims even though I play a non-victim in real life. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 No one is arguing that a BS can never abuse a WS or that a BS should be the "victim" forever. I find that those bringing this up seem to at all cost, in EVERY thread, find some way to come down hard on the side of BSs and coddle or completely ignore the WS's behavior. It is so apparent and biased that sometimes I wonder if it can even be real how skewed these opinions are. Healing doesn't mean you can't acknowledge being victimized or admit someone did you wrong. It's like if someone was raped or molested, instead of first allowing them to be angry and hold the abuser accountable, you try to say, "well what if he was abused too? huh?do you want to be the victim forever? don't blame him" WTF? Please get away...you would be the most useless person and sadly, there are people who do just this, which screws with that victimized person's well-being even more. How terrible it is to be abused and when you speak out or voice your upset/anger, people simply try to downplay it or tell you to just get over it and not bother to hold this person accountable. Anyway: healing comes in stages. It is ridiculous, insane and self-serving for those who want to live in delusion and who unsurprisingly are aiding in an affair, to believe that a BS should bypass the stage of anger and hurt at the betrayal and just sail off into some blameless healing. It is perfectly normal and logical to hold the cheating party accountable for their behavior. "Empathy and understanding" can be codewords for being so scared of confrontation and so scared of self-care that you never stand up for yourself and never allow anything to be black or white. That isn't being enlightened, it is having an issue which you wrap in a smoke-screen of being "nice and understanding." One can hold them accountable and blame them for THEIR PART, then go on to other stages of healing and also owning your part. To be on the side of "I never judge. I never blame. etc" has always proven to be the platitudes of people suffering with their own issues of self-worth and who act like that in hopes that this will gain them the love and understanding they too desire...but usually it simply leads them to being doormats who accept any and everything because they are too afraid to have any firm stances. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Assault, then? Which is better? You pick the word. In legal terms I would suggest negligence. If someone knowingly had an STD was trying to give it to you, that would be assault. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheBladeRunner Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 OK, maybe it's not abuse (I think it is), but it is certainly torture! My SBXW's infidelity drove me to a level of depression that I have never felt before in my life. The break up has changed everything about me, my life, and my relationship with my daughter. Call it abuse, call it torture, call it a bite of the big Sh$%^ Sandwich w/o mayonnaise! No matter how you slice it, infidelity sucks eggs and hurts other people.....nuff' said! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Abuse just really does not apply here. Can abuse be coupled with an affair? Certainly. But the act of an affair does not in andof itself constitute abuse. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellin Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 One can easily choose whatever book says what they need to hear to feel okay about something. Doesn't mean it's right. That can be said about anyone citing any source to support any POV. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 That is unfortunate, but it does not constitute abuse. You yourself described you married other woman's husband as an abusive philanderer. Say it ain't so. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellin Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 So you alone are right whilst they are all wrong? Well that makes sense, doesn't it. Once everybody believed that the Earth was flat, you know. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Decorative Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 In legal terms I would suggest negligence. If someone knowingly had an STD was trying to give it to you, that would be assault. So having an affair is negligence? LOL I don't even know what to say to that. Hopefully, someday, you'll understand the damage done to betrayed spouses and unwitting affair partners, and you'll drop this routine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellin Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'm sure she wasn't crazy. Because.... there are no crazy people in any US hotels? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Decorative Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 You yourself described you married other woman's husband as an abusive philanderer. Say it ain't so. OH! Good catch. You're right! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Wisernow, "It's really not a huge surprise that the people who are actively in affairs would be so adamant that they are not abusers. I can understand that. Who wants to be labeled a cheater AND an abuser. Doesn't make it any less true though." Or, labeled a "Negligent cheater" 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 You yourself described you married other woman's husband as an abusive philanderer. Say it ain't so. No, I have not. I have never said he abused her. I said he was controlling. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I have never ever EVER said she was bing abused. Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 No, I have not. I have never said he abused her. I said he was controlling. Controlling and cheating on her is not abusive in your opinion? Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 In terms of abuse? No. Link to post Share on other sites
Realist3 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Being controlling can definitely contain elements of abuse, but by itslef, nope. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 In terms of abuse? No. Nice try...... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Decorative Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Healthy and non abusive relationships are not built on deception on control. I'm sorry. How is this not as obvious as Joan Rivers' plastic surgery? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Definition from wikipedia: Psychological abuse, also referred to as emotional abuse or mental abuse, is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another to behavior that may result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder. [1][2][3] Such abuse is often associated with situations of power imbalance, such as abusive relationships, bullying. Realist, I'm just reading the def. & I got a say, ya, infidelity probably does lead to abuse in the M. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherRound Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 You are managing to invalidate every single one of us and our feelings by the suggestion that we might have abused our WS. Guess what...I didn't. How. Dare. You. I said "if the BS did this"... if you didn't, it doesn't apply to you. I was specifically talking about WSs who felt abused and that led to their affair. You are touchy, and I'm not sure why. How dare I what? Express my input???? I'm sorry, I thought this was a board to discuss things. You can feel free to block me or not read what I have to say as you obviously missed where I said that if someone felt abused then they were and that their feelings were valid regardless of what anyone else said about it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherRound Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 An abuser doesn't get to define the abuse. The victim does This is exactly what I was saying. And it applies to EVERYONE, including a WS who felt abused and then entered an affair as a result of that. Even if the BS doesn't believe that they were abusive - if the WS felt it, then it's valid. And of course, vice verse. I don't see why that is hard to understand? I didn't say it made the decision to have an affair okay - just that the BSs abuse isn't more valid than the WSs abuse - abuse is abuse - and it's all valid. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherRound Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'm going to try again.. although I'm sure it won't make a dent in anyone's opinions. I know that I personally was never trying to invalidate any of the BS's here. I know that when I talk about EMA's, I can only do so from MY perspective and MY experience. In my experience, Alex's wife has some abusive tendencies. By no means do I think that means that all men or women who are in the role of the BS are abusive, nor does it mean that ANY of them act like she does nor would they even necessarily be able to relate to what she does, says or how she acts. But the wife of the man I'm in love with is. I read here often in the hopes of seeing someone, anyone who has any shreds of the same behaviors as she does in the hopes of understanding and the closest I've come has been Another Round's description of her xMM's wife and 2 posters who talked about their lifestyle being more important. I don't think eiher of the two ever continued to post. Your feelings certainly aren't invalid. I can see why you'd be upset when something so different gets brought up, but it DOES happen. No one is saying you did that... but that might be someone else's experience and just because it is foreign for you doesn't mean it is for me. Does that make sense? I try very hard not to do that. I am very aware that my MM has a lot of flaws and a lot of issues. The problem comes in that I can't say that the BS in my situation is a nice woman or that she is able to relate to people on a personal level or that she doesn't sabotage her own relationships. That doesn't mean that I don't think that others here do it. It doesn't mean I think she deserves him to be cheating on her, but it does make it hard for me to see her as a victim. That's wrong of me, but I can't change the way I view her. I've tried. I can't talk about a situation from a perspective I haven't experienced. He and I had a long talk about relationships and abuse and this entire topic today. I was going to share more than this but it gets tiring when it's implied we aren't trying to contribute and our motive is just trying to be nasty. He did confirm that she knows we still sleep together, but that he has downplayed how often. I asked why he lies if she's aware and he said it's easier to keep the peace and that she likes to have something to tell people if they ask. It's consistent with her personality and I'm well aware that he has the ability to lie, so no need to point it out, but it answered questions for me. I think this was aimed at me simply bc I brought up that many WSs felt abused prior to entering affairs. As if that somehow invalidated any abuse the WS felt that they have suffered. Obviously, that's not what I was saying - but trying to open the dialogue that abuse can be felt from MANY things - including more subtle things like neglect or ignoring. Where there is no malicious acting out towards the SO but that it can feel just as abusive to the person on the receiving end. And to me, neither is more valid than the other - abuse is felt by us mostly the same way - regardless of WHAT that abuse actually was. In fact, for some people, their partner having an affair would be far less "abusive" than their partner simply invalidating them on a daily basis by ignoring them and acting as if they don't exist. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherRound Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Isn't that the opposite of the thread topic? No, the thread topic was "is an affair abusive" and I said no, not innately - it depends on the variables, the situation. It can be - yes, but not just simply bc it exists. And it just naturally led to what if the WS felt abused FIRST? To me, it was a natural part of the discussion in that ALL feelings of being abused are valid - and if the WS felt abused first - is their feeling of being abused then invalidated bc the BS feels "more" abused? Imo, no - it is all valid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AnotherRound Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The problem with your illogical theory is that it doesn't at all account for the third party's participation, that is, the affair partner of the cheating spouse. The affair partner can't claim to have been abused by the betrayed spouse. So why is there an affair at all? Well, in some situations, the AP could certainly claim to have been abused by the WSs spouse. Why couldn't they? You can be abused by anyone - regardless of the situations surrounding you. If you feel abused, then the behavior was abusive - period, bc it hurt you. And all of those feelings are valid. I have a problem with statements like "the affair partner can't claim to have been abused by the BS" simply because it fails to take into account a million variables and situations and personalities and circumstances. This is not cookie cutter stuff - it is too broad to pin down to one sentence like that. There is an affair for reasons I stated previously. Many people are unwilling to upset their children, lose half of what they have worked for, afraid of their family's reaction, afraid of the society they live in and that reaction, on and on and on. If divorcing someone was SO easy, it would happen even more than it already does - and affairs wouldn't exist at the statistical level that they do now. Well, unless someone wants to truly believe that EVERYONE in an affair fits into a very small category of "hussy" and "cake eater". I do not believe this in the least, so I try to explore the multitude of variables possible. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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