Dealing with the abuse aspects of infidelity

[Decorative]

You mean that and the other clear pattern that "emerges" - when the MM contacts the OW again once the dust settles.

 

There's all kinds of abuse patterns in the way people treat each other.

 

I absolutely agree that an unmarried affair partner gets emotionally abused by their married partner.

 

For sure.

 

Yes- the unmarried AP makes bad choices and gets into the situation, in most instances. But it is still likely to end up as emotional abuse. We see the results of it on these boards every day.

 

I am just not sure that a lot of affair partners recognize it.

[MissBee]

Perhaps it will interest you that Emily Brown has written a chapter in the book "Handbook of the Clinical Treatment of Infidelity". Several PhDs have reviewed this book prior to it being published. The editors of the book are also PhDs.

 

I am very good at conducting research. In my search on her, I made sure to search scholarly/clinical articles and books written by her or in which she was cited. I read her acknowledgements so that I would have a feel for her background and I did read who she said helped and critiqued her etc. However, it still stands that being a PhD/PsyD and having one as your editor are not the same things.

 

As I said, I am not trying to paint her as some charlatan, I was just pointing out, esp since Spark and probably many others assumed she was a doctor, that she is not, but she is a psychotherapist, and one can understand her work in that regard and within that context.

[TheBladeRunner]

This thread has gotten REALLY interesting, it's touched a nerve in that I am the BS. What stuns and disgusts me is how we have all these folks that are cheating on their spouse and trying to justify what they have done. I forget who's post it was, but the poster justified an affair for financial reasons, kids, what the family might think, etc..

 

Sorry, but I think that is chicken sh$%! If your relationship has gone south as it did with my WS, get out, sort yourself out, and then move on to another. Betraying someone YOU took a vow and made a promise with may or may not be abuse, but in my opinion it is one of the highest forms of torture and betrayal "I" have ever experienced.

 

Keep justifying your infidelity, whatever you have to do to make yourself feel better, that's what my SBXW does and it SEEMS to be working for now.....for now. All you WS's out there that think you cause no harm are sorely mistaken; you lie to your spouse, your family, and even worse, YOURSELF.

 

I will not insult anyone on this forum by saying I have never lied, I have lied, but never cheated. I will say this though, when I have lied it ALWAYS came back to bite me hard square in the a$$ just as your betrayal, lies, and deception will bite you.

 

Affairs are abuse in my opinion and can NEVER be justified. If you need this site to justify what you are doing you already know what the answer is. JMO

[Decorative]

I am very good at conducting research. In my search on her, I made sure to search scholarly/clinical articles and books written by her or in which she was cited. I read her acknowledgements so that I would have a feel for her background and I did read who she said helped and critiqued her etc. However, it still stands that being a PhD/PsyD and having one as your editor are not the same things.

 

As I said, I am not trying to paint her as some charlatan, I was just pointing out, esp since Spark and probably many others assumed she was a doctor, that she is not, but she is a psychotherapist, and one can understand her work in that regard and within that context.

 

Agreed.

 

I am a first order nerd. I crave information- it's how I handle the world.

 

I found the same results on Ms. Brown that you did.

 

As a side note, my spouse's IC, my IC, and our MC were not fans of her hypothesis. I read her, because I was in a search for anything that would help me process what happened.

 

Although , again- I have to say- I cannot figure out why a person who was an unmarried single AP would endorse Brown. Her view of the AP is not flattering at all, and her split self hullabaloo seems like a first order justification for the affair partner stringing the AP along indefinitely.

 

I don't understand Trinity's push for this author.

[MissBee]

Just found an interesting chapter in this Handbook named "'Accusatory Suffering' in the Offended Spouse". Will read it.

 

This is appropriate to the discussion, as reading on accusatory suffering, in it likens this response of a BS making a living memorial to the betrayal, to the response of victims of domestic violence and incest, who don't allow their psychic wounds to heal.

 

So on the topic of affairs as abusive, indeed, it seems to be that they are to many BSs who then end up feeling and responding like victims of other kinds of abuse, and the accusatory suffering seen in infidelity serves the same function it does in domestic violence and incest abuse.

 

The question isn't if accusatory suffering is a good coping mechanism btw, but especially with regards to the topic of this thread, it is a coping mechanism for those feeling abused, which answers some of the questions posed by the OP. Thank you for that!

[MissBee]

Agreed.

 

I am a first order nerd. I crave information- it's how I handle the world.

 

I found the same results on Ms. Brown that you did.

 

As a side note, my spouse's IC, my IC, and our MC were not fans of her hypothesis. I read her, because I was in a search for anything that would help me process what happened.

 

Although , again- I have to say- I cannot figure out why a person who was an unmarried single AP would endorse Brown. Her view of the AP is not flattering at all, and her split self hullabaloo seems like a first order justification for the affair partner stringing the AP along indefinitely.

 

I don't understand Trinity's push for this author.

 

I think the split-self aspect is what has been often brought up and I can see how if you're in a years long affair, that that kind of theory may help you to feel better about your MM's inability to make decisions, and help you to feel comfortable staying put. But even then, Brown characterizes the third party/OW in split-self scenarios as one who has unresolved issues with her father which she plays out in the affair, she's often a generation younger and unmarried and is attentive, understanding and accommodating (oh yess) of this MM.

[Decorative]

I think the split-self aspect is what has been often brought up and I can see how if you're in a years long affair, that that kind of theory may help you to feel better about your MM's inability to make decisions, and help you to feel comfortable staying put. But even then, Brown characterizes the third party/OW in split-self scenarios as one who has unresolved issues with her father which she plays out in the affair, she's often a generation younger and unmarried and is attentive, understanding and accommodating (oh yess) of this MM.

 

Exactly. That is exactly what I took away from it.

[MissBee]

Reading her theories were what solved the war that was going on between my mind and my heart. I finally understood the mindset of my MM. She gave me the missing puzzle piece which made everything make sense.

 

I think that for both BSs and OPs, if we can understand the MP so much is won. The MP is someone we love, he/she is not our enemy, so to understand the MP is helpful to us and our relationship with him/her whether we are the BS or OP.

 

It makes me sad to see the way many BSs speak of the WS in general, using terms as cheater, liar, cake-eater, and yes abuser. This is not helpful, this is not trying to understand why someone you love caused you pain. How can reconciliation work if these are the kind of thoughts that thrive in the mind of the BS? I can not see it. I can not understand it. I feel for all of you and hope you will eventually find a path to healing rather than being stuck blaming those whose actions caused you pain.

 

Well clearly many here have reconciled while calling a spade a spade.

 

It seems though that being in a place of "understanding" or from what I and Emily Brown would call it: extreme accommodation, hasn't really changed your status as OW, but simply enabled the same situation to continue. You said your former common law spouse had several OW and that reminds me of my mom who is also extremely accommodating and "understanding" and that has left her with a serial cheater for a spouse. None of her understanding has made any difference in her situation. So in my own observation, there is healthy understanding, which CAN and DOES include anger and not sugarcoating someone's behavior and then the other extreme, which is enabling. What is the goal of "understanding" if it leads to no change for you or your situation but leads to complacency?

 

I cannot say that your stance hasn't helped you. Maybe you are happy, I don't know. But it doesn't seem like if a BS changes their mentality to yours it would suddenly improve anything. Many seem to have done fine and either kicked their spouse to the curb or are reconciling/reconciled while being able to look the ugly behaviors in the face and call it what it is.

[MissBee]

2-5 YEARS, Trinity.

 

I have a PHD for a therapist and he tells me and my husband we're both perfectly healthy and normal for where we are in the healing process.

 

I would say that you are not qualified to tell us whether we're healing in a healthy way or not, but our therapists are.

 

How I choose to take advice is based on several things:

 

1) The source and their positionality

 

2) Their life and how this advice has helped them or not.

 

If one is instructing me on healing and wholeness, yet one is still in a situation I would define as stagnant or not my definition of healthy or whole...then I will think twice about taking your advice, as in my mind, it hasn't really helped you, or rather, what it has done for you doesn't match what I want for myself - so I will try something else.

[Robert]

******Moderators Note *******

I'll try one more time before closing down this thread.

 

ALL posts are to remain topical to the thread starters first post.

This thread had ZERO to do with physical abuse and is discussing whether or not Infidelity or the act of cheating being abuse.

 

Thanks

[AnotherRound]

Having an affair, in and of itself, is not abusive. It depends on HOW the WS has the affair. Having an affair with active deceit, gaslighting, etc., can be abusive - and probably is in most cases. But having an affair (a relationship outside of your primary relationship) is not in itself abusive. There are some activities associated with many (not all) affairs that are abusive in a subtle way (sometimes).

 

Affairs aren't abusive - some WSs participate in abusive behaviors to have an affair.

[MissBee]

Having an affair, in and of itself, is not abusive. It depends on HOW the WS has the affair. Having an affair with active deceit, gaslighting, etc., can be abusive - and probably is in most cases. But having an affair (a relationship outside of your primary relationship) is not in itself abusive. There are some activities associated with many (not all) affairs that are abusive in a subtle way (sometimes).

 

Affairs aren't abusive - some WSs participate in abusive behaviors to have an affair.

 

I think having a relationship outside of your primary relationship isn't by definition an affair, I think what makes an extramarital relationship an affair, is if it is a secret relationship hidden from the spouse. Infidelity is a good word to further clarify the difference. One can have extramarital relationship not considered infidelity, but infidelity, by it's definition contains deceit, disloyalty and other qualities that abuse someone's trust and emotional well-being.

 

Infidelity (colloquially cheating, adultery, or having an affair) is a breach of an expectation of sexual and or emotional exclusivity expressed or implied in an intimate relationship. Infidelity can be physical intimacy or emotional intimacy. Infidelity also involves trust, betrayal, lying and disloyalty.[1] Sexual infidelity by a marriage partner is commonly called philandery, adultery, or an affair.

[AnotherRound]

The damage caused to the BS because of the affair is mind blowing. Affairs are emotionally damaging - unbelievably emotionally damaging. To engage in an affair is a willful act that will emotionally devastate the BS.

 

Yes, affairs are absolutely emotionally abusive. To say otherwise is to blindly deny the destruction of the emotional stability of the BS.

 

Many WSs or former WSs, and also many APs may not like that the behavior they have chosen will utterly destroy another person's emotional well being, but that is what is happening. By partaking in an affair, a person is engaging in the emotional abuse of another.

 

There is no argument against it. A person can be a model spouse while in an affair. If the affair is discovered, the BS is shattered. The affair, all by itself, is abuse. Being involved in an affair is abusive.

 

Would the affair have been abusive if the WS was honest about it? Try to separate the actions - the lying was abusive, the gaslighting, the pretending - but the actual affair (having a relationship with another person), was that actually abusive?

 

I don't think it is - as there are people who agree to having more than one relationship throughout their lives. Are Mormons who practice multiple marriages abusing their partners by being in more than one relationship? They would argue no, so the act itself is not abusive. If your WS was completely honest with you - would it have been abusive?

 

The acts of lying, manipulating, etc, (if they occurred) are most likely abusive. The act of having a relationship with someone else is not abusive UNLESS you add in the actual abusive behaviors.

[MissBee]

Would the affair have been abusive if the WS was honest about it? Try to separate the actions - the lying was abusive, the gaslighting, the pretending - but the actual affair (having a relationship with another person), was that actually abusive?

I don't think it is - as there are people who agree to having more than one relationship throughout their lives. Are Mormons who practice multiple marriages abusing their partners by being in more than one relationship? They would argue no, so the act itself is not abusive. If your WS was completely honest with you - would it have been abusive?

 

The acts of lying, manipulating, etc, (if they occurred) are most likely abusive. The act of having a relationship with someone else is not abusive UNLESS you add in the actual abusive behaviors.

 

AR...don't you get that no one is discussing that?

 

This is the Infidelity board, not a polyamory/polygamy/open marriage board, so it stands to reason that when people discuss affairs, they are not speaking about simply having an alternative marriage where consensual sexual/emotional liaisons are agreed upon. Not sure what there is to be gained by pushing an affair as simply a relationship outside of your marriage, when in the context of an Infidelity board, the situations presented here are not at all of the variety in which you speak, but are specifically infidelity, specifically not agreed upon, deceitful affairs. People here are talking about if infidelity is abusive, maybe that will clarify what the meat of the matter is.

 

You will continue to talk at cross purposes if you insist on defining or using the definition of an affair that is not relevant to this board or the thread.

[AnotherRound]

Polygamy isn't an affair; people agreeing to more than one relationship is not an affair.

 

Infidelity is abusive. Very simple concept.

 

 

Okay, affair not abusive, infidelity is. I can agree with that by the definitions of the words. Affairs are simply another relationship - no lying assumed. Infidelity assumes lying and such, abusive behaviors, therefore abusive.

[SidLyon]

Okay, affair not abusive, infidelity is. I can agree with that by the definitions of the words. Affairs are simply another relationship - no lying assumed. Infidelity assumes lying and such, abusive behaviors, therefore abusive.

 

On this board an affair/infidelity are virtually synonymous with each other but nothing to do with open marriages, polygamy, polyamory or whatever. This thread was not meant for discussion about whether all and any relationships outside of a marriage are abusive, but specifically about affairs/infidelity where the BS is gaslighted, or kept in the dark about the extent of the affair/infidelity

 

This thread was also meant for discussion about abuse of the BS by the WS, not about any abuse of the WS by the BS that might have occurred, so whoever wanted to discuss that should start their own thread.

 

Thanks to the few OW/OM/WS that have replied. Some of you seem to be denying that you (if you are a WS) or your MM physically abuses his/her spouse, but have not really addressed the issue about whether you even accept the existence of emotional and psychological abuse as a form of abuse. If you do accept it, then how do you rationalise that this isn't what your MM (if you are an OW) or you (if you are a WS) is doing?

Edited March 10, 2013 by SidLyon

[SidLyon]

I did actually answer the question several times. I accept the existence of emotional or psychological abuse as a form of abuse. I'm not sure whether or not I feel he's doing that(in my particular situation, which I do not want this thread to turn into a discussion about please) and I said I don't know how I reconcile that and that I'm working on it.

 

Thanks LFH. I realise there are some OW/WS posters who have acknowledged the existence of psychological and emotional abuse as a form of abuse and the possibility of it occurring in their own situation.

 

My previous post was directed at those who haven't yet acknowledged that emotional/psychological abuse exists, let alone the possibility that either they (if a WS) or their MM (if an OW) might be doing it.

[Spark1111]

Reading her theories were what solved the war that was going on between my mind and my heart. I finally understood the mindset of my MM. She gave me the missing puzzle piece which made everything make sense.

 

I think that for both BSs and OPs, if we can understand the MP so much is won. The MP is someone we love, he/she is not our enemy, so to understand the MP is helpful to us and our relationship with him/her whether we are the BS or OP.

 

It makes me sad to see the way many BSs speak of the WS in general, using terms as cheater, liar, cake-eater, and yes abuser. This is not helpful, this is not trying to understand why someone you love caused you pain. How can reconciliation work if these are the kind of thoughts that thrive in the mind of the BS? I can not see it. I can not understand it. I feel for all of you and hope you will eventually find a path to healing rather than being stuck blaming those whose actions caused you pain.

 

Because the lying, cheating,cake-eating spouse with severe FOO issues that they have rug-swept though out the marriage AND the affair has to do the hard work of IC, MC and educating themselves to gain back my trust and a place in my bed for me to entertain a future with them.

 

We may have spent a lifetime forgiving their shortcomings, their inability to truly be intimate with their emotions, their undeserved anger, their emotional distancing and conflict avoidance.....until DDay. Then ALL bets are off the table.

 

We are done begging, pleading, shoring up, trying to make them a better, happier man...

 

So, the roles reverse, and now that man is begging and pleading us to reconcile, so we basically set ground rules: FIX YOURSELF MAN, be the partner I always believed you could be or get outta my life.

 

and this is what an OW or OM NEVER get to see or witness after DDay; a remorseful WS finally doing the self-work we have wanted them to do all along; to be happier within the self so they can be happier with us and our marriage and life in general.

[nofool4u]

So you can't even come up with one link? Wow.

 

He may not be the type of person that wants to do the research for you.

 

But I am. Here is one by a legal investigator, marriage educator, divorce mediator, and certified relationship coach.

 

https://www.firstwivesworld.com/index.php/experts/item/3241-infidelity-a-type-of-domestic-abuse

[nofool4u]

It would be further interesting to see a link to any kind of professional who states emphatically that the lying and sneaking and manipulating that goes along with an A is specifically NOT emotional abuse.

 

Well its all in which side of the fence you are on.

 

IMO only, MOST betrayed people will consider it a form of abuse, while MOST, and in my guess probably all, of those people who are engaging in an affair will of course not see it that way.

 

I'm sure there is a professional that will say its not abuse. They just asked for one link, and I provided it. Thats all.

[AnotherRound]

Did you read the title of this thread? We are talking about

I-N-F-I-D-E-L-I-T-Y.

 

And we all know the definition of that. Let's not belabor it further, shall we? Infidelity has ALL those aspects.

 

Yeah, we discussed that earlier in the thread - so that's why I found it interesting that you were saying that someone had insinuated that those things weren't abusive. Thanks for clarifying - I was curious as to which poster said that those things were NOT abusive and couldn't find it.

[AnotherRound]

Here's one.

 

 

Hmmmm... she didn't say it wasn't abuse - she said she didn't consider it abuse of herself in her situation. ???? We obvs have different ideas of what "why consider it abuse" means - I took it to mean "it may be helpful to look at it a different way for your own healing purposes" - not "It's NOT abuse."

[AnotherRound]

And another...

 

Lol - you conveniently left off the part where I went on to say that lying, gaslighting, etc IS abusive. And the part where we clarified an affair vs infidelity. Cherry picking - fun stuff.

[nofool4u]

And another...

 

Of course those doing the hurting are not going to think it is abuse.

[Robert]

We gave it a go, although since the topic cannot be discussed we are closing this thread.

 

Thanks all who have participated.

 

Robert