Dealing with the abuse aspects of infidelity

[Spark1111]

Emotional abuse is subjective depending on the relationship. Things I would never accept others view as commonplace.

 

I disagree with abuse.

 

I don't really know how I reconcile it, as I can't necessarily argue that keeping secrets isn't abusive, but I can say that her health has never been placed at risk sexually and that no one has ever placed a hand on her in anger.

 

As far as they physical/sexual risk, I am more obsessive about safety than anyone I know. They use condoms and I require him to complete regular testing with me. (The fact that I think this is a need for all smart people to do this was discussed thoroughly in another thread last week) I am completely exclusive with him. If she has an STD risk it isn't from me or from him.

She knew that there was going to be a sexual relationship before it happened, so that choice wasn't taken from her.

 

I don't honestly know. It's entirely possible I've never thought of it that way. I just don't know. I guess you've given he and I a topic of conversation for this weekend. I hope this thread has some good discussion, I'll be following it. I'm not interesting in debating my relationship but I did want to answer and participate.

 

MY H's OW insisted he use condoms.

 

We HAVE never used them and never used them during their affair, which is ironic since she tried to convince him I MUST have a BF because he had convinced her we rarely to never had sex.

 

But it certainly felt abusive to have to confide to our family physician, the one who delivered our babies and see the fleeting look of disillusionment on his face as he wrote the script for HIV and STD testing.

 

Yep. That was abusive to have to be subjected to that.

[eleanorrigby]

I'm sorry you had to deal with that, no one should have to go through that the way you or anyone here did. That sucks.

It goes back to my basic philosophy, that no matter what your sexual relationship, if you're having sex with anyone, a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a spouse, anyone, you owe it to yourself to be tested first, then at least yearly anyway.... even if you are monogamous or think you are.

 

Even if a person does get tested for STD's yearly whether they "need to" or not isn't going to change the fact that they could still have gotten something disgusting or deadly since the last check up.

 

And even if you go in once a year, having to make that extra visit because your spouse is cheating is still going to be humiliating or deadly.

 

So I don't see how putting the onus on the BS to get checked up yearly makes any difference.

 

(or maybe we need to test our spouses for STD's nightly before having sex with them.)

Edited March 9, 2013 by eleanorrigby

[stevie_23]

I think a lot of the time people are very much in denial about this sort of thing. The risks, exposure etc. The cheating partner loves / knows their OW so they just "KNOW" that they're fine, healthy, etc. Many wouldn't even get checked because then it may be too serious, ruin the mood, or whatever. They're in a bubble (not necessarily the same bubble that's been discussed previously in other threads) and just probably wouldn't even consider that their OW could be a potential risk to either them OR their spouse at home. I think there can be such a total disconnect between the spouse and the OW (in the husband's mind) that they cannot even imagine anything of the OW touching or affecting the spouse, in a way.

[Realist3]

Most reputable sources state than infidelity is abusive behaviour by one spouse to another.

 

Do we have any links to these 'reputable sources'?

[Phoe]

I remember the look on my dr's face when I was sobbing hysterically in his office and asking for STD testing and anti-anxiety meds. I think my husband was VERY lucky he wasn't there for that appointment.

 

Being forced to essentially have sex with others without my knowledge was a tough pill to swallow, and as a survivor of sexual assault I really didn't feel much differently.

 

I felt dirty, ashamed, and guilty.

 

For the OW who knowingly share, I don't get it. I am still traumatized from knowing that after sexual encounters, my husband would come home and KISS me after his mouth and hands had been somewhere else.

 

My God, I didn't ask for that or consent to it and there aren't enough condoms in the world to make that ok.

 

Yes, it was abuse.

 

THIS x1000

 

I'll never forget the night he came by late... I went to give him a blowjob and his penis tasted like pure vagina. I nearly vomited.

 

There I was, patiently waiting at home for him while he F**ked the gogo dancer from the bar downtown.

 

I didn't help that she was so freakin beautiful... I look like a troll next to her. Of course he wanted to have sex with her!

 

I moved on from HIM long ago, but the emotional pain of what he did still is in the back of my mind every now and then.

[SidLyon]

Do we have any links to these 'reputable sources'?

 

There are so many...

 

Try Google or the search engine of your choice. Also try authors who write about infidelity. Many of these are specialists in their field and very reputable.

 

I would imagine that it might be possible to find sources that categorically state that infidelity is never abuse, so if you find some please feel free to say so. I guess it's possible to construct a scenario where infidelity is not clearly abuse, as I'm sure some posters on this thread have already said.

 

What do you think?

[AnotherRound]

I don't believe that having an A is abusive in itself - although, dishonesty can be abuse in certain circumstances. Thing is, if someone feels abused - then they were abused - regardless. Their feelings are valid simply because they feel them.

 

The problem is that the WS may not feel as if they were abusive, or they may feel abused themselves. If it works one way, then surely it works the other? I've heard WSs state that the reason they had an A was that they themselves were being abused in their relationship by a neglectful spouse, a spouse that belittled them, etc.

 

I'm curious as to how many BSs would disagree that they were, in fact, abusing their WSs? It seems that this could be used both ways - and to say that one is abusive and the other is not. Or, we accept that everyone's feelings are valid (and have truth in them) and that both partners were abused in the relationship that resulted in an A. Interesting thread.

[Furious]

I don't believe that having an A is abusive in itself - although, dishonesty can be abuse in certain circumstances. Thing is, if someone feels abused - then they were abused - regardless. Their feelings are valid simply because they feel them.

 

The problem is that the WS may not feel as if they were abusive, or they may feel abused themselves. If it works one way, then surely it works the other? I've heard WSs state that the reason they had an A was that they themselves were being abused in their relationship by a neglectful spouse, a spouse that belittled them, etc.

 

I'm curious as to how many BSs would disagree that they were, in fact, abusing their WSs? It seems that this could be used both ways - and to say that one is abusive and the other is not. Or, we accept that everyone's feelings are valid (and have truth in them) and that both partners were abused in the relationship that resulted in an A. Interesting thread.

 

 

Why would any woman find a MM, who whines about being neglected and "abused" by his wife, attractive.

 

Women should run for the hills from such a cowardly man that's so "abused" that the only solution is to have an affair rather than divorcing their evil spouse.

 

Funny how so many women fall the poor abused WS, who for some reason or other just seems to stay in that awful marriage and keeps that loving OW waiting for years and years.

[AnotherRound]

Why would any woman find a MM, who whines about being neglected and "abused" by his wife, attractive.

 

Women should run for the hills from such a cowardly man that's so "abused" that the only solution is to have an affair rather than divorcing their evil spouse.

 

Funny how so many women fall the poor abused WS, who for some reason or other just seems to stay in that awful marriage and keeps that loving OW waiting for years and years.

 

 

 

I think you missed my point. I was saying that I know of WSs who would claim abuse - and that I would consider that real and true simply because they felt it.

 

It's not about the BS being "evil" in many cases - it's just about a dead relationship and being legally tied to it with societal expectations and fears of losing time with your children and/or half (or more) of your life's work.

 

Your perception of that post is telling to me in that you immediately saw such a lopsided scenario? Do you see it as abusive to have an affair but not abusive to neglect your SO? Automatically?

[2sure]

To me, a big part of the psychological abuse that often is a result of a spouses infidelity....is the denial by the WS that it is even happening. Telling and convincing the BS that it isnt happening. The abuse comes in making someone's feelings and instincts completely invalid by pretending the abuse isn't occurring.

 

By telling people here that the abuse they experienced ..wasn't really abuse is just so wrong and mean and small.

[Furious]

I think you missed my point. I was saying that I know of WSs who would claim abuse - and that I would consider that real and true simply because they felt it.

 

It's not about the BS being "evil" in many cases - it's just about a dead relationship and being legally tied to it with societal expectations and fears of losing time with your children and/or half (or more) of your life's work.

 

Your perception of that post is telling to me in that you immediately saw such a lopsided scenario? Do you see it as abusive to have an affair but not abusive to neglect your SO? Automatically?

 

 

I didn't miss your point, just don't agree with it.

 

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Have a nice day:bunny:

[Realist3]

Can't you just believe those of us who have gone through the experience?

 

I believe it hurts terribly. The word abuse I don't think fits.

[Furious]

I believe it hurts terribly. The word abuse I don't think fits.

 

Just say that to betrayed spouses who ends up with a life long STD, and tell them it's not abuse or even criminal.

[Realist3]

There are so many...

 

Try Google or the search engine of your choice. Also try authors who write about infidelity. Many of these are specialists in their field and very reputable.

 

I would imagine that it might be possible to find sources that categorically state that infidelity is never abuse, so if you find some please feel free to say so. I guess it's possible to construct a scenario where infidelity is not clearly abuse, as I'm sure some posters on this thread have already said.

 

What do you think?

 

It pulled up a bunch of BS's claiming it was abuse on blogs and perhaps one or two 'experts', but nothing more.

[Ellin]

Just say that to betrayed spouses who ends up with a life long STD, and tell them it's not abuse or even criminal.

So if WS wears condoms, then the criminal / abusive element of infidelity is gone?

[Furious]

So if WS wears condoms, then the criminal / abusive element of infidelity is gone?

 

 

Condoms don't protect all STD's, check your facts.

 

Are you saying if your boyfriend or husband cheated on you and you got an STD you'd ok with that?

 

Wouldn't that be abuse of your trust and abuse of your health or do you disagree?

Edited March 9, 2013 by Furious

[MissBee]

I am not doing anything to her, but I do feel pity, thinking, dang, that's messed up. I've seen her pictures. She was never beautiful to begin with in my opinion, but the most recent pictures do indicate a decline over the last few years. I find that indicative of something.

 

 

 

Nope.

 

 

Can you say more about this?

 

Not sure what her beauty or lack thereof has to do with the topic of spousal abuse in an A.

 

If she were beautiful (to you) then it would matter and if she isn't then it doesn't? Not sure if that's your argument.

 

In any case, you aren't the one marrying her, so you don't have to be attracted to her. Your boyfriend however, is though, and I imagine he is attracted to her.

 

But again...not sure what this has to do with spousal abuse.

 

To answer for myself: he wasn't married in my case and they did not live together so that I think changed some of the dynamics, in that, unlike a man living with his wife/partner, who would logically have to lie or gaslight a lot more, he didn't have to as much, because she wasn't around so he could get away with doing his own thing without severe lies. I had never felt the A was acceptable while in it personally, but I think the factors above made me feel at the time that it was less damaging. I truly do not believe if he were in fact married or they lived together would the situation have persisted, as I wouldn't be able to reconcile it. Even as it were, eventually it bothered me too much, and it had to end. So I was always conflicted during the A and felt what he was doing wasn't right, but I don't think I ever thought about it as abuse per se...and again, it's largely because in his case, since she wasn't his spouse who lived with him, I don't think his lying and deception had to be a systematic and bold as with married men living with their wives.

[Spark1111]

To me, a big part of the psychological abuse that often is a result of a spouses infidelity....is the denial by the WS that it is even happening. Telling and convincing the BS that it isnt happening. The abuse comes in making someone's feelings and instincts completely invalid by pretending the abuse isn't occurring.

 

By telling people here that the abuse they experienced ..wasn't really abuse is just so wrong and mean and small.

 

And stilling ONGOING on a daily basis here by those actively involved in them!!!

 

IT boggles the mind, doesn't it??????????

 

 

HAVE an affair, DON'T HAVE an affair BUT DO NOT DEIGN to tell infidelity survivors WHAT THEY FELT was NOT ABUSE!!!!

 

Scoot, scatter, be off and start reading relationship web sites....NOT just the few that support affairs. Seek the truth of all sides, NOT just YOUR side.

 

That is how you educate yourself.

[MissBee]

It isn't that "a" particular AP is diseased rather if a WS can choose to sleep with one AP without protection that means the spouse slept with those same people unprotected (no all AP don't sleep around) and without our permission or knowledge. Shouldn't I get to decide who I have sex with? Why should I take the chance that "an" AP might be disease free? And if there is one case that a person has gotten a disease (which I can only go by my experiences) that is a chance that I am unwilling to take or make allowances for. I have children, a family, friends who love me and I them. NO one should take liberties with my life or the way my life intersects with others. I am not an island...I am connected.

 

Also if a WS is willing to cheat with "a" particular AP then how many others has they been involved with? How many people have the AP been involved with? Am I having additional sex with one other person or dozens? My life...my choice. Since a great deal of life is based on generalizations I would have land on the side of caution. Sexual activity outside of my knowledge and consent = possible exposure to people I would never have sexual contact with otherwise.

 

Thanks for this.

 

I meant comment that, if an OW knows she is disease free or not is hardly the issue. The issue is your partner having you believe that you're the only one they are sleeping with so you feel totally secure in that lie, when it isn't true. Once you add another into the sexual mix, things get more complicated and harder to control. A MM cannot guarantee an OW won't be sleeping with other people, worse if he is with a married OW on top of it, smh. I mean the whole thing is a mess frankly and the whole principle is flawed.

 

I don't care if you and your OW got STD tests...are you friggin kidding me???? The point is: you are adding a third party to the mix and at any moment between tests you're taking a risk and lying to me about it. Unless the wife gets to go to the testing too and sign off with the OW and WS, then sorry...it doesn't count. The only person who has peace of mind are the WS and OW who know what they're both up to. But as a BS, I can imagine, when you find out, you have no reason to feel secure. You don't know this woman from a can of paint and have no reason to believe you haven't been at risk. I mean all around, the whole thing is disrespectful.

 

Just like I'm sure if a MM is telling the OW he doesn't sleep with his wife and she is the only one then OW2 pops up and then says "Well we've been sleeping together too, but no worries, I'm clean, we got tested OW1, so stop freaking out" OW1 would not at all be pleased or fine that line of reasoning acceptable.

[Spark1111]

I believe it hurts terribly. The word abuse I don't think fits.

 

Hmmmm...so someone you love and trust who hurts you terribly on an ongoing basis......IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF ABUSE.

[Spark1111]

It pulled up a bunch of BS's claiming it was abuse on blogs and perhaps one or two 'experts', but nothing more.

 

 

TRY this: Best ways to KILL, destroy, end a marriage, or marriage deal-breakers.....and make sure you read WHY that is....

 

You seem like a smart man. I'm sure you will figure it out.

[Spark1111]

It's classic blame the victim mentality so the perpetrators don't feel guilty.

 

Yes!......I never meant to hurt (slap, kick, punch fill-in-the-blank) you BUT you kind of made me do it.

[Spark1111]

AR.........Bringing up WS's who are abused in THIS thread is strawman logic. You know it, everyone else knows it too.

 

I'm sure it would be a good topic for a new thread.

 

And to equate abuse with being unhappy in a relationship

is a slap in the face to EVERY abuse survivor out there.

 

GIVE. US. ALL. a break, PULLEAZE.

[ComingInHot]

Hmmmmm... I've had to sit on this a couple days to be able to respond according to LS guidelines.

 

Abuse as relating from the WS to his BW (or WW to BH whichever*) was a fact with regards to my H's A that was substantiated through documentation in the form of eye witnesses, actual recordings and written receipts from 2 dinners and icecream noting reason which were not according to either company's policies.

 

Forms of Abuse:

- Verbal abuse (picking fights for no reason/using profanity and demaeaning verbage and done so on occasion in front of our children)

- Psychological abuse (getting angry over nothing to leave then not answer his phone then doing the "it's all your fault thing" as well as the "I wouldn't have to be this way if you would just ____________ unattainable reason here")

- Emotional Abuse (by way of him doing things ie; sex cuddling then screaming yelling until I was so twisted into a pretzel I couldn't see straight)

 

He has anger issues and ego issues for sure, but it was NEVER so abusive as it was during his affair and shortly after he let her go.

 

Looking back now, it is all so clear. He systematically destroyed every shread of self esteem, self worth and self confidence w/out me really realizing it because I actually (and I know this sounds crazy) TRUSTED him!

I was a pathetic pile of nothing when the exow outed him months later.

I wish I could tell you how HAPPY I was (and horrified at the same time) that NONE of what he did to me was my fault!

I stood up REALLY quick and took back EVERYTHING!

 

The kicker is, the exow encouraged his treatment of me. Laughing and egging him on to a point where I believed I was pitiful and he started to believe it too. oh yuck!

 

It is truly amazing how quickly there are certain characteristics about ourselves that come right back to us when the situation or reality allows.*

He goes off on one of his tangents and I turn on him so fast his head spins and stops him dead in his tracks.

 

ps. we are still working on his anger crap...

[ComingInHot]

trinity, "Why look at it as abuse?"

 

So, you don't classify liars/non-liars or cheaters/non-cheaters and you don't support infidelity yet enable it and now you don't classify abuse/non-abuse?!

your comments make me crazy sometimes chicka*

 

Is this all because you are in an A wherefore by acknowledging anything that would be destructive to your A cannot be tolerated mentally?

 

or is it just your "culture"?