The Tallest One Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It was hard enough getting over the end of my marriage almost five years ago, but now getting over an almost two year relationship from my last gf who I was crazy about is just too much. It's difficult at my age only because most of my friends have moved away over the years and I don't have more than three friends in town but there usually too busy. I hate bars and I just don't know how to make friends anymore. I'm too messed up to date right now as well. It will be three weeks tomorrow since gf ended things and I'm still really hurting. I guess it doesn't get any easier as you get older. I spend the day with my six year old son today and it was fun, but then I come home and feel so alone and heartbroken. Nothing seems to lift my spirits and other than being on this site or surfing the net, I don't feel like doing anything else other than going to bed. At least I can hit the gym tomorrow and then take in a show in the evening alone. What do people my age do with themselves when there not at work? Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm sorry your heart is broken. Yeah that relationship after marriage is a strong one right? I feel you. But maybe you can be friends? Link to post Share on other sites
Author The Tallest One Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 She wanted to see if we could be friends, but I don't think I could just settle for being friends when I still love her, it would be too painful! Link to post Share on other sites
adelia Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Sorry to hear you're lonely there's lots of us in the same boat. I think it's worse when you've been in a marriage and been removed from the singles scene. Are there any special interests you have aside from the gym? Maybe start with that then strike up conversations and make some friends. Increase your social circle. Joining groups with common interests is a great start.maybe a sport of some kind? Keep busy that's the most important thing to avoiding the loneliness. Of course it is totally natural with a BU to feel lost. Hope youconnect with some others and feel better about things Link to post Share on other sites
portableversion Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 yeah break up stink bad and its not easy to make friends. I was divorced in august and have made peace with my new found solitary life, no women no friends no nothing. just me and my books and god, and the occasional visit with boys, dont really know how ive managed to not kill myself god is keeping me alive for some reason, though my ex does stop by every so often. i think i need to tell her to piss off and enjoy the ****ing divorce she wanted so bad Link to post Share on other sites
Mumbles Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It's difficult at my age only because most of my friends have moved away over the years and I don't have more than three friends in town but there usually too busy. I hate bars and I just don't know how to make friends anymore. Yep, been there bud. Took me a bit more then three long years to get over my divorce. I noticed, as you have, that I was so consumed by my marriage, the striving to succeed, the couple stuff, that I basically dropped out of the social scene. Like you, friends married or otherwise moved on (and out of town) and I was genuinely surprised when I popped out my marriage just how isolated I'd managed to let myself become. Whilst I used to love clubs when I was a fair bit younger, I don't feel comfortable in them now .. I can probably learn to enjoy them again, but at the moment I just feel like I'm passing time and really am not in the groove. I've never had a ONS either, so I don't really know what I think I'm doing in a club anyway as mostly the 'good ones' seem to be ONS meat markets. I'm too messed up to date right now as well. It will be three weeks tomorrow since gf ended things and I'm still really hurting. I guess it doesn't get any easier as you get older. Umm, no, I guess not. At least not initially. Counselling helps if its appropriate for you, it helped me. I was spiralling down to a really bad place. Desperation about where this bad place was going led me to eventually have to mix my life up significantly, take some counselling (which I'd never have dreamed of doing before), get back in touch with my body pleasure responses (gym, jogging, generally re-learning how to have fun in my physicality). I spend the day with my six year old son today and it was fun, but then I come home and feel so alone and heartbroken. Nothing seems to lift my spirits and other than being on this site or surfing the net, I don't feel like doing anything else other than going to bed. At least I can hit the gym tomorrow and then take in a show in the evening alone. Interesting you should mention coming here. I got a lot of support from LS. I've made recent decisions which have helped me enormously, really, enormously, by reading others reflections and endeavours. Its a form of therapy, and the anonymity it allows means you can really open up if you want and explore thoughts and scenario's that would (perhaps) be difficult with those close friends you do have. What do people my age do with themselves when there not at work? I got into a bad pattern of living to work and working to live. My ex-wife and I were pretty driven to succeed financially and it consumed both of us. Life isn't easy right? Even in the west. If you want to get ahead you have to break your balls and really make some sacrifices. Then my marriage ended and I had to really consider, _really_ think, what is it all about? How much of my precious life am I willing to martyr to the god of the dollar bill? I'd been engaged for more then 10 years in building something I thought would last for ever ... any any sacrifice was worth that .. or so I'd convinced myself. Wrong! You only get one life, and you gotta enjoy it, because its gone all to quickly. I'm mid forties, contemporaries and old friends are already starting to die. This shocked me. In the modern western world we easily forget that many _many_ people (men particularly) really don't live to reach 80+ years. So now, what I do is travel, a lot. When I'm not actually at work, even if its just a 4-5 day break, I'm off, seeing the world or my country. This has contributed significantly to bringing me out of my 'shell' at home too. I have interesting tales to tell and experiences which are making me much more agreeable to interact with. I smile more, people, including women, smile back. My point? Change your life. I wish I'd taken this view 10-15 even 20 years ago. My initial reaction to my divorce was to act and conduct myself as if nothing had changed. I went to work, and worked hard, as I always had. I went home and worked some more. I didn't change anything ... except, I was always alone - things _had_ changed and I had to recognise it. Get out into the world. Go to the gym, do it for you (though the ladies at the supermarket look me up and down now, so there is a dual benefit there hehe). Learn a new language. Get a hair cut, change your clothing style. Its an opportunity to re-invent and so long as you do all these things for you, your happiness levels are likely to rise and rise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
misswillow Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I understand how you feel. My 2.5 year relationship ended a week ago and I feel like my life was so wrapped up with him, there is not much left. I am 41 and I wonder, where do I go from here? I don't have kids, and I only really have one close friend who is also single. My other friends are married with kids that keep them occupied most of the time. Plus it's a little depressing to hang out with happily-married people who just cannot relate. I don't really have much close family either, just my mom. So for now, I just work and spend most of my time alone at night and on the weekends. I have a dog, so I go out for long walks with her when the weather allows. The breakup is still so new that I'm not ready to force myself to do more right now. But eventually my plan is to get back to the gym, join a running club and train for a half-marathon, and do some more traveling. I also may check out meetup groups and see if there are any that interest me (although I will avoid anything "singles" related...I would only be looking for friendship). So I have all these grand plans, but I have no idea when I will be able to implement them. I am just trying to get through each day right now. I'm not sure when, if ever, I'll be ready to date again. But if I ever am, I wonder if there is really any chance of anything at this age...I feel like my good years are behind me, hopefully this is just the sadness talking right now. Link to post Share on other sites
adelia Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Your good years are just starting! Sounds like some great activities. Great ways to meet people. It's not always the people you meet directly but who you meet through them. I understand how you feel. My 2.5 year relationship ended a week ago and I feel like my life was so wrapped up with him, there is not much left. I am 41 and I wonder, where do I go from here? I don't have kids, and I only really have one close friend who is also single. My other friends are married with kids that keep them occupied most of the time. Plus it's a little depressing to hang out with happily-married people who just cannot relate. I don't really have much close family either, just my mom. So for now, I just work and spend most of my time alone at night and on the weekends. I have a dog, so I go out for long walks with her when the weather allows. The breakup is still so new that I'm not ready to force myself to do more right now. But eventually my plan is to get back to the gym, join a running club and train for a half-marathon, and do some more traveling. I also may check out meetup groups and see if there are any that interest me (although I will avoid anything "singles" related...I would only be looking for friendship). So I have all these grand plans, but I have no idea when I will be able to implement them. I am just trying to get through each day right now. I'm not sure when, if ever, I'll be ready to date again. But if I ever am, I wonder if there is really any chance of anything at this age...I feel like my good years are behind me, hopefully this is just the sadness talking right now. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mumbles Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Your good years are just starting! I have to agree. I never would have thought, post breakup that it would be true, but yes, it is. I can't speak for others, but for me, single in my mid forties is turning out to be a blast. 3 years ago or so when we realised our marriage was finished I thought I was finished too. I was exhausted, emotionally and physically. But the good news is that with some self improvement and some time to get over the emotional impact, things are better then they have probably ever been. Hang in there. You're bottoming now, but up is the only way 2 Link to post Share on other sites
soccerrprp Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Just ended a relatively short and stagnant (emotionally for me) relationship. Couldn't and wouldn't give more time than she wanted and I realized that I was way too busy to be in a relationship and give 100%. 44-yr old, male, have 2-kids, 7 and 5 AND loving my time away from dating and spending more time with my kiddos! I know it's tougher for some who have no children to occupy at least some of the loneliness, but enjoy your free time and make the best of it. You'll get into another relationship and the rat-race will begin all over again. I feel free to call, visit, go, meet friends w/o feeling guilty. Now I can schedule ME time w/o feeling guilty. But, I do want a LTR....eventually. I just need to work on me and my priorities to be ready for the next person I meet. Such freedom, release can be used to your advantage. Cherish it and regroup. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author The Tallest One Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 I can relate to misswillow, I made my last gf my whole world, which in hindsight, I know was a mistake. It's hard when you get so attached to someone and when it's over you feel so empty. I know a lot of this has to do with my self esteem. I know I'm a good person with good values and have a lot going for me. My only real issue is that I'm coming out a bankruptcy and it will take time before I'm where I'm in a good place. This was the main reason why the relationship ended. I'm still in that phase where I miss her and wonder what she's doing and if she thinks of me, but this will pass in time. I just wish I had more friends and family to spend time with and not feel so alone and disconnected. I will go to the gym and a movie today and try and grab drinks with a buddy tonight. Tomorrow I might go to church as well. Link to post Share on other sites
adelia Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Church is a great venue to meet people as well. I'm in my thirties but I have friends in my forties who are single and they have more fun than the twenty somethings. Life is what you make it I can relate to misswillow, I made my last gf my whole world, which in hindsight, I know was a mistake. It's hard when you get so attached to someone and when it's over you feel so empty. I know a lot of this has to do with my self esteem. I know I'm a good person with good values and have a lot going for me. My only real issue is that I'm coming out a bankruptcy and it will take time before I'm where I'm in a good place. This was the main reason why the relationship ended. I'm still in that phase where I miss her and wonder what she's doing and if she thinks of me, but this will pass in time. I just wish I had more friends and family to spend time with and not feel so alone and disconnected. I will go to the gym and a movie today and try and grab drinks with a buddy tonight. Tomorrow I might go to church as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
misswillow Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The Tallest One, I guess we have to learn from our mistakes and not make someone else the center of our worlds again. It's not very healthy and probably a lot of pressure for that person. For me, I am naturally introverted and like to be at home, so it was easy for me to spend most of my time with my ex, but now I know I have to fight against those tendencies, at least sometimes. I'm in no way close to even think about dating again, but if that day ever comes, I want to first work on having a more full life. And then I will work on keeping it, even if I do meet someone. But for now, I'm still working on NC with my ex! Link to post Share on other sites
Author The Tallest One Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 miss willow, I agree 100% with you that we need to have fuller lives before we start to see someone! I made the classic mistake of letting other people slide a bit while I was seeing her. Trying to stay busy right now is what I struggle with. I went to the gym, now I'm treating myself to lunch at a restaurant. I'm trying to make plans with my sister to go for a drive and then a coffee later. And tonight I will see a movie hopefully with a friend. What kind of things do you do to try and get through all this? Link to post Share on other sites
Mcnulty Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm 41 and have just come out of poor health, lots of ops over the last year. Single and not liking the solitary life I lead. Can't exercise yet or go back to work. Yes, it seems all my friends are coupled up and going to bars is just a cattle market, hate it. Getting my health back is a good start, but the fall out is hard, PTSD and low self esteem and confidence due to the illness has left me quite weary of the opposite sex. i wonder where my life is going and feel at this age, like the above posts, opportunities to meet new people are quite scarce. Link to post Share on other sites
TheBladeRunner Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Force yourself to get out there!!!!!!! I am 46 w/ a young child and I went through the same lonely stuff in the beginning. I never really had a lot of friends, but the few I had are still around. While I was with my SBXW I seldom got out, but now that I have some time on my hands I see them more often. I am also fortunate that my neighbors here at my apartment have taken me in as well. Through the neighbors I tend to go out more as well as I took up bowling and I am on a league one night a week; this helps me meet others as well. I took up target shooting as well and I usually at least have a conversation with someone else there every week or two. I really need to get back in church, I am not a religious type, but I have made friends in environments like that when I lived in other states. As far as dating goes, I have dabbled with it and feel that I really don't feel like doing it right now, who knows, maybe I am just not ready yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
misswillow Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 miss willow, I agree 100% with you that we need to have fuller lives before we start to see someone! I made the classic mistake of letting other people slide a bit while I was seeing her. Trying to stay busy right now is what I struggle with. I went to the gym, now I'm treating myself to lunch at a restaurant. I'm trying to make plans with my sister to go for a drive and then a coffee later. And tonight I will see a movie hopefully with a friend. What kind of things do you do to try and get through all this? I haven't really done much yet to get through this, as the breakup is only a week old. I'm just trying to get through each day at the moment. The fact that I cleaned my condo and took my dog for a long walk today were pretty big accomplishments for me! I'm just still really in the "need to be by myself" phase b/c I think I would be even more sad to be out doing things with anyone other than my ex. It's a little awkward sometimes to get back in touch with the friends that you kind of let go during the relationship, because (at least with women), they can resent that. And I don't really want to be around any couple friends right now. Like I said, I really only have one single friend, and she has been very supportive. I have another good friend who lives in another state that I would like to visit, but she has been very sensitive to the fact that we haven't kept in touch much lately. But I would also like to try and meet new people (fairly) soon. I'm going to join a running club and look into other types of groups...I like to be physically active, so maybe some type of hiking club. The hard thing is that I'm pretty shy with new people, so joining groups is not going to be easy for me. Plus it's sad, because these are the things my ex and I liked to do together. I also am going to try to volunteer at an animal shelter, because I love animals. I'm also planning a spa weekend with a friend within the next few weeks. I also just like to spend time alone, reading, watching movies, etc. Hope you had a good day...it sounds like you had some fun things planned! Link to post Share on other sites
Author The Tallest One Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 miss willow, hi!, just for in from seeing a movie by myself! I usually go to movies alone! I enjoyed seeing my sister but she talked a lot about my ex which I wasn't expecting and this evening being at the movies seeing so many couples just made me feel sad! I know how you feel about just wanting to be alone! I force myself to be around people only because when I'm alone I think and miss her too much! I hope you really begin to heal soon and be able to move forward, it's so lousy feeling the way we do! I don't know why but it bothers me that when my ex ended things three weeks ago via text (which was cowardly) she didn't respond when I said good bye and that I would miss her! Any time in the past when she had tried to end things, she always said goodbye! (She's done this break up thing numerous times with me before)! Yes she's the confused sitting on the fence type who's afraid to make a mistake either way, so in stead she lead me on for over a year and a half! Ouch that hurts! I hope you can manage to to make small daily goals in order to help you have some routine and a bit of normalcy that will help you! Take care of yourself and I'll be here if you need someone to listen! Link to post Share on other sites
misswillow Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hey Tallest, I can't believe your ex broke up with you by text. Ouch, that's cold. My ex also broke up with me more than once (this is actually the third in about a year, we were together 1.5 breakup-free years before that), so I also have to feel like a fool on top of everything else right now that I kept taking him back. I go to movies alone sometimes, and probably will again if there is something I'm dying to see. I've told myself this will be my last weekend of wallowing around - even if I have to force myself to do things. I'm usually very into going to the gym, which I haven't been doing, so that will probably be my first goal next weekend. I'll probably check out new gyms, since my old one will just remind me of my ex. And hopefully the weather will allow me to run outside soon, that's something that usually makes me feel better. It is hard when you don't have much of a social circle to turn to. And at this age, I'm not sure how you go about making new friends. And it kills me to know that my ex is Mr. Social Butterfly, so I'm sure he's going out, meeting new people, probably already dating even though it's only been a week, because he's one of those people that can't seem to be single. Ugh. Link to post Share on other sites
ComingInHot Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Tallest, I'm so sorry you are feeling this way. So I'm going to TRY to give some positives** When I was seven, eighteen seemed old. When I was eighteen, thirty seemed old. When I thirty, fortyfive seemed old. Now at forty, seventy seems old(er)... YOU are NOT old! YOU were NOT designed to be a solitary creature! YOU don't have to stay lonely! The more you do WITH being single, the less likely you are to remain lonely and single As our parents tell us, "chin up, shoulders back, head high" and get moving! Although, I usually "duck & charge right in" lol!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author The Tallest One Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 misswillow, I know it's hard but you need to not worry about the ex and what he's up to, who he's seeing or not seeing, and all the things he does! It's now time you focus on you and what "you" are doing! I would do as you say and change gyms, but continue to do things you enjoy and are good for you! We both have to do what is good for us, and take back our joy! Cominginhot, thanks for your words of encouragement! Each day it gets a little easier to keep my chin up and move forward! Link to post Share on other sites
ballycastle Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi, read everyone's comments with interest. I am wondering when people repeatedly say, 'You won't be single for long', what exactly do they mean. How do you know we won't? How do you know that there actually ISN'T that person out there that wants to stay with us/work through the relationship/give a ****/treat you how you should be treated. I am mid forties, a year later struggling to come to terms with an horrific relationship breakdown. I am no way out the woods 365 days later. I have posted on LS before, partner was avoidant and I am anxious insecure as an attachment types. Due to the devastation of being dumped in the way he did, I am now turned avoidant. I will not put myself through the pain of meeting someone, as I now believe, like avoidants, getting close and showing your true self is too frightening, and too painful so why do it. Can anyone tell me if there are actually 'available' partners out there anyway? Anyone over 40 seems, in my opinion to be commitment phobic, there's a reason why a lot of them are still 40 and not married. Means that we are simply heading to be dumped again but these types that dupe you into believing they want a relationship and are committed. I did want a relationship for life, but it seems when you're older, all the secure types are married off. So now I'll settle for believing I won't meet anyone again. What chance is there that we will 'meet someone.' Who? The ones who all their life haven't dealt with their issues and just want to dump you all over again? Sorry if I sound so bitter. But I am so angry. I am dealing with my problems, but there are certainly many out there (although not on this forum because at least we are trying to work out our issues) who don't. Link to post Share on other sites
Mumbles Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi, read everyone's comments with interest. I am wondering when people repeatedly say, 'You won't be single for long', what exactly do they mean. Yep, got you. I felt this way too. I can only base my words on my own experience. Divorce and roughly 3 years of no relationship, no sex, nothing. I think whats meant is that when you are ready, really ready, potential partners will appear before you as if by magic. It will take a directed force of your own will to be open enough to see them and to act. To be able to do this you have to first recover and get yourself into a good place. How do you know we won't? How do you know that there actually ISN'T that person out there that wants to stay with us/work through the relationship/give a ****/treat you how you should be treated. Because people, ultimately, are not that different to you. They are out there floating around you all the time - you just have to be open to them. With the end of my marriage I also gave away the silly notion I'd been brought up with that there is "the one" for me. I thought I'd married her, and when it was good it was really really good - but I now believe that nothing is meant to last forever. I am mid forties, a year later struggling to come to terms with an horrific relationship breakdown. I am no way out the woods 365 days later. Took me more then 3 years. Its a personal journey. You have to do it yourself, no new partner can take you there. I have posted on LS before, partner was avoidant and I am anxious insecure as an attachment types. Due to the devastation of being dumped in the way he did, I am now turned avoidant. I will not put myself through the pain of meeting someone, as I now believe, like avoidants, getting close and showing your true self is too frightening, and too painful so why do it. I enjoy each day. I used to not try things that were not going to last the test of time. This transcended relationships. Materially I'd buy things that were built to last, I "built" I didn't really "consume". But its a fallacy in my view. Enjoy what you have, including your life, while you have it. Tomorrow is another day and anything you think you have can be lost in the blink of an eye. Can anyone tell me if there are actually 'available' partners out there anyway? Anyone over 40 seems, in my opinion to be commitment phobic, there's a reason why a lot of them are still 40 and not married. Means that we are simply heading to be dumped again but these types that dupe you into believing they want a relationship and are committed. I'm single, 45 and am in the dating scene. Its a good age to be single (if any age is), there seems to be some sort of natural pause in people lives at around this age, plus or minus a few years. The dating pool in my demographic is huge, absolutely huge, and, for the most part, they are mature and thoughtful people, not children. But dating, sex and relationships, being single at this age is not at all like it was for me when I was 20, or even 30. There doesn't seem to be the same "rush" to want to get married, or even commit in a marriage like way. Its not all swinging, don't get me wrong on that, but people are a lot more relaxed I've found, prepared to let what will be, be. Honestly, despite getting terribly hurt when I separated from my ex-wife, I'm open to the prospect of a future LTR or even another marriage. But I'm not pursuing it as a single minded goal. I did want a relationship for life, but it seems when you're older, all the secure types are married off. So now I'll settle for believing I won't meet anyone again. What chance is there that we will 'meet someone.' Who? The ones who all their life haven't dealt with their issues and just want to dump you all over again? There are a proportion of folks in our age group who are terribly scarred, its true - sheesh I was one of them for a long time after divorce. Aside from a relatively few who you will meet circa our age who never ever settled down, many will be post divorce or breakup. They are unlikely I think to want to rush into anything, and probably my own thoughts are very seriously colouring my opinion here. By the same token, I'm not convinced that everyone is simply looking for a short hook-up either? Certainly the dating websites can come across that way, but in the "real world" it seems to me that people I meet still want to make connections and have relationships. But they don't want someone who is going to be 'hard work' - and this circles me back to needing to be comfortable in your own skin. Link to post Share on other sites
ballycastle Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 thanks, I would pick up your individual quotes but I still haven' t worked out how you can take my quotes individually and add your response. thanks for taking the time to reply. 3 years is a long time and a frightening thought hence why I thought I just won't bother. When does the anger go? I can see myself being angry for the rest of my life Angry because of the situation I am in. I feel such a freak. All my friends are in relationships except me. I have never been married and would love to know or think someone out there might, might want to take the risk and want to stay and commit to me, but so far that has never happened. Again another reason not to bother. i have been in many months of therapy but i gave up with it due to cost, plus its very intense and depressing experience, you go over painful things to have to cope with by yourself after the sessions have ended. i hear you, live each day as it comes but remember the thread is 43 and lonely. its tough however you dress it up. i keep myself busy, have a social life but deep inside I am lonely. Dating website are full of those who just want sex. Where can you find the ones you describe that actually want a relationship? Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Can anyone tell me if there are actually 'available' partners out there anyway? Anyone over 40 seems, in my opinion to be commitment phobic, there's a reason why a lot of them are still 40 and not married. Means that we are simply heading to be dumped again but these types that dupe you into believing they want a relationship and are committed. Yes, there are available partners out there. But it takes work to find them. I was single from age 42 to 48. At times I worked to find a relationship and at times, I resigned myself to being single for the rest of my life. I was online, talking to hundreds of potential dates, went on over 50 coffee meet-and-greets, and struggled with the solitude. It was only after a long, arduous search that I found someone who was like me and able to commit. And neither of us thought we would ever find anyone again, so it is possible. But you have to know your demographic and the type of person you want. Meaning: if you want someone physically active, go to Meetup.org that caters to hiking or biking, etc. If you want someone religious or spiritual, start going to church. If you want someone intellectual, start going to lectures. If you want someone artistic, start going to museums and art shows. If you want someone musical, learn an instrument or sing in a choir. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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