The 'other woman' - common background themes?

[Bailey14]

Pierre, I have been reading your posts for a long, long time and I am wondering why you think you know it all. You have never been involved in an affair but, you think you are an expert because you have done a lot of reading on the subject. You know, just because I read a medical textbook does not make me a doctor. Please stop with your pronouncements.....it is getting really, really old.

[LadyGrey]

Acknowledging that you have foo issues or a past that is troubling, does not mean that that one places blame on someone else for their own choices. For me, understanding my past and why I have failed to make good choices at times is empowering. Nor does having been a victim mean that one always remains a victim. I am a survivor! Flawed yes, but I'm still here, smarter and wiser now in spite of some of the shyte sandwiches I was handed and some I fed myself.

[Pierre]

I don't know you Pierre, but I will presume that you're human and need love just as anyone else does. If you don't then perhaps you are not human. Forgive me if I am wrong.

 

All of us want to be loved. But, to turn to a married person to get that love shows a greater than average desire for love. Anything in excess is not a good thing.

 

All I have done in this thread (and many others) is point out the numerous posters that express the desire to be loved.

[Pierre]

Pierre, I have been reading your posts for a long, long time and I am wondering why you think you know it all. You have never been involved in an affair but, you think you are an expert because you have done a lot of reading on the subject. You know, just because I read a medical textbook does not make me a doctor. Please stop with your pronouncements.....it is getting really, really old.

 

No, I don't know it all. But, one can learn a lot from reading the forum. The story repeats itself many times. At some point one tends to have an understanding.

 

 

 

All I have done in this thread (and many others) is point out the numerous posters that express the desire to be loved.

[Pierre]

Well excuse me for being human. I would really like to have somebody who cares for me. It's a natural feeling.

 

 

I am not making this stuff up. All I am doing is quoting the posters.

 

Sure, everybody likes to be in a loving relationship. But, this should not be pathological or drive a person to do the wrong thing.

[Pierre]

and my heart was ready to love again.

 

Here is another one.

 

I get the desire, but if the desire drives a person to do something stupid then the desire was way too intense.

[AnotherRound]

All of us want to be loved. But, to turn to a married person to get that love shows a greater than average desire for love. Anything in excess is not a good thing.

 

All I have done in this thread (and many others) is point out the numerous posters that express the desire to be loved.

 

I would disagree that having a relationship with a married person shows a greater than average desire to be loved.

 

I have always thought that love and legality should be completely separate. That, in making a legal contract about love, that we sacrifice the love for security.

 

Maybe it's a difference in needs - some people value love more, some value security more. I would rather be loved and don't believe that there is ever a true infinite security where love is concerned. Love is flaky sometimes - it just is bc it's just an emotion. I'm not banking on forever - maybe hoping forever, but not banking on it with my life, I think that's unrealistic.

 

I think it's a priority of needs. Granted, they can be close in priority - but one has to be stronger than the other, that's nature. For me - I don't need security in love (I don't believe it can truly exist on a huge level), I just need love. Security comes second to love - so, the confines of my exMMs marriage didn't negate the love, just the imagined security that some people seem to need, and which I don't value bc I find it untrue.

 

Not sure if I said this in a way that makes sense, but it's a clear concept in my head, lol.

[stevie_23]

I don’t consider any past event or experience an excuse for future behaviour, but everything we experience in our lives does of course influence us, shape us and impact upon us, and the earlier these experiences occur in our lives, the bigger impact they have.

 

I grew up in a good home but my dad was an alcoholic from when I was 4-14 years old. Saw much verbal abuse from him to my mum and I think I formed strange emotional attachment outlooks because of that though I’d never blame him for anything.

 

I thought I was gay from the age of about 17 until 2 years ago when I fell for my ex-MM. I don’t know if I am or not now, and I don’t really care. But being gay at a fairly young age, I felt I had to hide, avoid and lie to the people closest to me because being open about who I really was and what I really needed to be happy would cause them unhappiness and pain and disappointment. So I think me accepting my role as an OW was not so much a huge lack of self esteem (because I didn’t intend to be the OW forever. I never WANTED to be the OW and was never content being that to someone) but more that I didn’t know what I wanted in life. Girl, guy? What I already have, or what I potentially could have? And as I was unfamiliar with feeling anything towards a man, I didn’t realise what was happening until I was already deeply in love. And then I reverted back to my old familiar “friend” of lying (to my partner), hiding and avoiding in order to be happy. Because to be open about it would inflict pain and unhappiness.

[Pierre]

I would disagree that having a relationship with a married person shows a greater than average desire to be loved.

 

I have always thought that love and legality should be completely separate. That, in making a legal contract about love, that we sacrifice the love for security.

 

Maybe it's a difference in needs - some people value love more, some value security more. I would rather be loved and don't believe that there is ever a true infinite security where love is concerned. Love is flaky sometimes - it just is bc it's just an emotion. I'm not banking on forever - maybe hoping forever, but not banking on it with my life, I think that's unrealistic.

 

I think it's a priority of needs. Granted, they can be close in priority - but one has to be stronger than the other, that's nature. For me - I don't need security in love (I don't believe it can truly exist on a huge level), I just need love. Security comes second to love - so, the confines of my exMMs marriage didn't negate the love, just the imagined security that some people seem to need, and which I don't value bc I find it untrue.

 

Not sure if I said this in a way that makes sense, but it's a clear concept in my head, lol.

 

This is uncanny. So many people here continually express the desire to be loved (see bold).

 

I do agree, that it takes more than the desire to be loved to seek a married boyfriend. There are several other factors which are rather well known and I will not discuss them.

 

In any event the concept of wanting love keeps appearing in these threads (not only this one). "Wanting to love" is not the same as "wanting to be loved". There is a huge difference! There is no point in seeking love to fill a gaping hole and this is almost always pathologic. It is better to love for the sake of loving and not because there is a huge need to be loved.

 

If I had a break up I would hope that whomever broke up with me does not love me anymore. That would certainly speed up my healing process. Once there is a break up the concept of whether I was loved or not is moot. The relationship is over! That does not negate I loved the person, but if there is a break up I rather see no love on the other side------I don't need it to survive.

[georgia girl]

I was prompted to login after years to respond to this post.

 

For the most part, I think it is rare that someone is so beyond the ability to control the past that they are simply adults responding to childhood stimulus. That said, I genuinely believe that we all also script our own disasters and author our own successes.

 

To that end, I think there are times when we compromise when we shouldn't. All relationships take compromise - I find my husband's decorating tastes somewhat lacking (think early bachelor/industrial), but I still include his tastes in our home. It's not singularly mine anymore and there has to be compromise. But there are some areas where compromise is simply not healthy. And yes, as women, I think we are genuinely more open to compromise than men.

 

So, when one meets a married partner with whom there is a strong sense of mutual attraction, I think it can be the path of least resistence to compromise and give yourself what you really, really want - especially when the other person pursues it.

 

But, I think it takes a highly developed sense of self-preservation not to give in. Giving in doesn't seem like such a big deal and holding out for more almost seems silly. You just met this person and you think he should give up an entire life and lifestyle for the possibility of you? It's tough to say yes to that question. But self-preservation dictates that you and that you walk away. If someone really wants you, they will come to you with the ability to offer you what you're offering him or her.

 

I just think there are areas where you can't compromise. I also think for many people - when a great deal of what they've always been looking for is quasi-available in a married partner - it's difficult to not compromise.

 

So, no, it's not that someone is less of a person. It's that they took a chance that likely didn't have a high probability of payoff.

[2sure]

I was raped as a teenager and defended myself from the trauma by becoming emotionally unavailable to men. Married men were a safe option for me. I thought I was using them. They didn't notice I was not emotionally invested in them.

[Pierre]

So, no, it's not that someone is less of a person. It's that they took a chance that likely didn't have a high probability of payoff.

 

Exactly!

 

For some this is a natural "NO WAY".

 

For others, any hope is better than nothing.

[Pierre]

I was raped as a teenager and defended myself from the trauma by becoming emotionally unavailable to men. Married men were a safe option for me. I thought I was using them. They didn't notice I was not emotionally invested in them.

 

Hmm, for many of these MM you were probably ideal.

[White Flower]

All of us want to be loved. But, to turn to a married person to get that love shows a greater than average desire for love. Anything in excess is not a good thing.

 

All I have done in this thread (and many others) is point out the numerous posters that express the desire to be loved.

A greater than average desire for love? Where do you come up with these things? I'd like to see you quantify this theory with something substantial, something other than your own overblown judgments of people.

 

I'm wondering if you're feeling left out, like nobody ever had a greater than average love for you.

 

I was raped as a teenager and defended myself from the trauma by becoming emotionally unavailable to men. Married men were a safe option for me. I thought I was using them. They didn't notice I was not emotionally invested in them.

I'm sorry to hear this 2sure. And about them not noticing your emotional non-investment they were probably enamored enough with you that that was looked over.

 

Hmm, for many of these MM you were probably ideal.

 

As they were ideal for her.

[Pierre]

A greater than average desire for love? Where do you come up with these things? I'd like to see you quantify this theory with something substantial, something other than your own overblown judgments of people.

 

 

I am just quoting the words of the posters. They wanted to be loved. I did not make this up. I simply say it is the common denominator.

 

Big difference between wanting to be loved versus wanting to love someone.

[kristismiles]

I agree... how absolutely dreadful if a woman would like to feel loved !!!!!

 

Well excuse me for being human. I would really like to have somebody who cares for me. It's a natural feeling.

 

I'm sure there are some others here who feel the same.

 

Cat.

 

If he really cared for you he wouldn't allow you to be hurt by this triangle. He would leave his wife.

 

I do believe many ow come from broken families and just don't have a lot of respect or the same feelings about marriage as those from happily married parents. Different boundaries from different life experiences.

[Pierre]

 

 

As they were ideal for her.

 

I disagree. In fact she has admitted it was not a good idea and she no longer does it.

[Pierre]

I don't think that was the point. I believe the point was that to throw caution to the wind in order to get the love is very telling. It is also telling in the same sense when someone, whether it be OP or BS, continues to allow the WS to cake eat for year after year after year, they are not commanding respect. They are taking what they can get just to get that love.

 

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

[Quiet Storm]

The problem with this question is that most people do not usually see the correlation until they discover it in therapy. The will just view it as a strong attraction, with no introspection as to "why" they are so attracted. A very good therapist will prompt their patient to see the connections, in a way that doesn't sound preachy. And then suddenly all the choices make sense.

 

These choices are subconscious. Most don't consciously accept a MM's love in a backwards attempt to resolve old hurts. They don't even know they are doing it, nor do they question why the feelings are so intense.

 

I will use the term "broken" but I don't mean it in a bad way. Most of us have emotional issues of some kind or another. Not just OW. It is not negative to recognize and work on resolving our issues. It is very empowering, especially when it all starts to make sense, because it helps us to make better choices going forward. It allows us to see our weaknesses, so that we can keep ourselves out of circumstances that are likely to result in emotional pain.

 

Wanting to be loved is a common theme because for many with "broken" backgrounds, love feels so validating. It is soothing and comforting. Rejection brings back the feelings of abandonment that many people experience in childhood.

 

Most people that were raised in environments where they felt completely loved & cherished, do not have that need for outside validation. They feel "whole", regardless of the status of their romantic lives. To those that have a need for outside validation, seeking it doesn't feel wrong, and they assume that everyone else is like that, too. "Who doesn't want to feel loved?". The thing is, most emotionally healthy women wouldn't see a married man's love as valuable, or validating. It could even been seen as insulting, because they don't have that need for validation.

 

I guess I am pointing this out because I want OW to know that just because they don't feel like their relationship with MM has anything to do with their past, does not mean that it doesn't. These types of things happen "behind the scenes" in our brains, and are not conscious choices that are made.

 

It's not enough to blame the affair on intense attraction. You have to look into why you were so attracted. That "chemistry" that happens may not be about phermones and personality connection. It is often a dysfuntional way that people attempt to resolve old hurts. Imagine that the two "broken" people were puzzle pieces. Their issues fit together in a way that feels so right, but it's not really about the other person. It's about yourself. This intense attraction should not be mistaken as a sign that the person is good for you.

[Pierre]

Quiet Storm you are amazing!

 

I have been saying this from day one, but they think I am insulting them. I don't know double psychology.

 

Seriously, one does not need to be a psychiatrist to see the common denominator. When looking from the outside it is SO OBVIOUS!

[psm04]

I actually never thought that I'd end up in an A, but it literally 'just happened'. I cannot blame my parents or my husband for my actions, since at some point, you become an adult, and you choose your way of life. I could say that my parents were really strict when I was growing up, and that I never got the chance to really think or do anything for myself, and that my H isn't an exciting person, and all of that caused me to run to my MM, but most of it was probably the attention that I was getting from someone new, and the feeling of being wanted. Funny thing is, my H has never stopped wanting me, and I still appreciated someone else's desire more than his

[Pierre]

I actually never thought that I'd end up in an A, but it literally 'just happened'. I cannot blame my parents or my husband for my actions, since at some point, you become an adult, and you choose your way of life. I could say that my parents were really strict when I was growing up, and that I never got the chance to really think or do anything for myself, and that my H isn't an exciting person, and all of that caused me to run to my MM, but most of it was probably the attention that I was getting from someone new, and the feeling of being wanted. Funny thing is, my H has never stopped wanting me, and I still appreciated someone else's desire more than his

 

 

the attention that I was getting from someone new, and the feeling of being wanted.

The quotes keep coming Scarlett5, I am not making this stuff up (see bold).

 

Dear psm04:

 

it literally 'just happened' is a universally used phrase by 99% of OWs. I assume it really mitigates your own sense of guilt. In many ways it was out of your hands. Maybe that is why it is such a popular phrase. It is certainly powerful.

 

my H has never stopped wanting me, and I still appreciated someone else's desire more than his

 

Some people are "black holes" for attention. That your H paid attention was not enough. You needed new attention because it was more exciting and gave you greater validation.

 

And validation is everything!

[LadyGrey]

Once again QS, you have nailed it.

 

I found it sad reading some of the responses in this thread, as some seemed to minimize/deny how foo issues can contribute to choices that are hurtful to oneself and others down the road and look upon those who do admit issues as weaker than.

 

Personally I think it takes a lot of courage to be able to look deep. Looking deep does not mean that you are shirking the responsibility on daddy or whoever, but that you are willing to explore how the past affects.

 

I say kudos to the women who are able to do this.

 

 

The problem with this question is that most people do not usually see the correlation until they discover it in therapy. The will just view it as a strong attraction, with no introspection as to "why" they are so attracted. A very good therapist will prompt their patient to see the connections, in a way that doesn't sound preachy. And then suddenly all the choices make sense.

 

These choices are subconscious. Most don't consciously accept a MM's love in a backwards attempt to resolve old hurts. They don't even know they are doing it, nor do they question why the feelings are so intense.

 

I will use the term "broken" but I don't mean it in a bad way. Most of us have emotional issues of some kind or another. Not just OW. It is not negative to recognize and work on resolving our issues. It is very empowering, especially when it all starts to make sense, because it helps us to make better choices going forward. It allows us to see our weaknesses, so that we can keep ourselves out of circumstances that are likely to result in emotional pain.

 

Wanting to be loved is a common theme because for many with "broken" backgrounds, love feels so validating. It is soothing and comforting. Rejection brings back the feelings of abandonment that many people experience in childhood.

 

Most people that were raised in environments where they felt completely loved & cherished, do not have that need for outside validation. They feel "whole", regardless of the status of their romantic lives. To those that have a need for outside validation, seeking it doesn't feel wrong, and they assume that everyone else is like that, too. "Who doesn't want to feel loved?". The thing is, most emotionally healthy women wouldn't see a married man's love as valuable, or validating. It could even been seen as insulting, because they don't have that need for validation.

 

I guess I am pointing this out because I want OW to know that just because they don't feel like their relationship with MM has anything to do with their past, does not mean that it doesn't. These types of things happen "behind the scenes" in our brains, and are not conscious choices that are made.

 

It's not enough to blame the affair on intense attraction. You have to look into why you were so attracted. That "chemistry" that happens may not be about phermones and personality connection. It is often a dysfuntional way that people attempt to resolve old hurts. Imagine that the two "broken" people were puzzle pieces. Their issues fit together in a way that feels so right, but it's not really about the other person. It's about yourself. This intense attraction should not be mistaken as a sign that the person is good for you.

[Quiet Storm]

I actually never thought that I'd end up in an A, but it literally 'just happened'. I cannot blame my parents or my husband for my actions, since at some point, you become an adult, and you choose your way of life. I could say that my parents were really strict when I was growing up, and that I never got the chance to really think or do anything for myself, and that my H isn't an exciting person, and all of that caused me to run to my MM, but most of it was probably the attention that I was getting from someone new, and the feeling of being wanted. Funny thing is, my H has never stopped wanting me, and I still appreciated someone else's desire more than his

 

 

It's not about blame though. It's about figuring out why we make certain choices. It's beneficial to do this because it keeps us from repeating unhealthy patterns.

 

You have figured out that your affair was probably about the attention from MM and the feeling of being wanted. It is good that you acknowledge that.

 

Now you have to go further and ask yourself, why do I need that attention? Why does that attention feel so good to me? Why does MM wanting me feel more special & validating than my husband wanting me?

 

People that have this need for validation will say "who doesn't want to to feel wanted?" or "who doesn't like attention?". They rationalize this need by assuming that everyone is the same way. They're not.

 

Most emotionally healthy people wouldn't choose to particpate in something that is against their values. They would not choose to risk causing pain to others, especially children. Even if they don't believe in marriage or monogamy, they would not be comfortable with the dishonesty in an affair. Instead of seeing MM as sexy, attractive and trapped ...they wouold see MM as pathetic.

 

Why is the need for attention, love, validation so powerful for some that they go against their values and risk hurting others? Where is that boundary that says "Stop, don't go there". Where is that inner voice that says "This can't be good for me". If they do have internal warning bells that go off regarding MM, why is his attention so addicting that those warnings are ignored?

 

A common theme from OW is "I love the man, not his circumstances", which indicates that they tolerate his marriage in order to have a relationship with him. Why is the love from that particular man so strong that they would accept a married man? What is different about that MMs love, compared to the love of a single, available man? OW's answer would probably be something like "It's the way he makes me feel". My point is that there is a reason, usually rooted in your past, that causes those feelings to be so strong. There is a reason that particular person sparks such feelings of attraction and attachment. That intensity causes some women to proceed past a hundred red flags. It's blinding.

 

It can be scary and uncomfortable to figure this stuff out, but it's very freeing in the long run.

[Catplates]

If he really cared for you he wouldn't allow you to be hurt by this triangle. He would leave his wife.

 

I do believe many ow come from broken families and just don't have a lot of respect or the same feelings about marriage as those from happily married parents. Different boundaries from different life experiences.

 

Well Hellooo Kristi. Haven't seen you around here for a while.

 

I was speaking in general terms of the universal human need for warmth and closeness. It doesn't make everyone a potential OW.

 

I did not come from a broken home or dysfunctional family myself.