Partner's former porn use and my self-esteem

[Arabella]

A couple of days ago I moved in with my boyfriend. We're pretty serious about each other and have discussed marriage and children down the line, so figured this section was more appropriate than Dating.

 

Back when we first got involved, I stated many times that I felt porn use was inappropriate when in a relationship and told him upfront that I expected him not to use it. I did tell him that I have no problems with masturbation itself, just with the use of porn, but he said that to him they go together because he can't finish without it. Nevertheless... given that we weren't having sex as often as I'd like, I asked him if he was masturbating. He denied doing so and said he was just tired for the most part.

 

A few months later, I noticed that the quality and frequency of our sex life improved significantly, but I didn't think anything of it. I figured that our talks about the topic were finally yielding results.

 

The porn topic came up again after a couple of months and I had this gut feeling... I can't even explain it, but it caused me to probe at it. Sure enough, he came clean that he had been using porn and masturbating for a few months, but that he had stopped (right around the time I noticed the difference in our sex frequency) because he knew how I felt about it and the guilt was eating up at him. He also came clean about one other unrelated thing that he had been dishonest about, that I would never had a way of finding out if he hadn't told me. The lying hurt me and caused a few pretty bad arguments, but ultimately I appreciated that he had tried to rectify his behavior so I forgave him and we moved on.

 

Then this weekend, we got into an argument about a comment that he made on a girl's picture on Facebook a few months ago. I got upset that when I originally brought it up, he said she was just a friend, then it turned out that he used to be interested in her, but she rejected him a couple years before. Somehow we got into an argument.... one thing led into another and it came up that back in the beginning, he had found something about my body off-putting.

 

A few years ago I made a huge effort for weight loss, and managed to shed 150 lbs. He wasn't aware of this when we first got involved. I am still overweight, but my body recovered fairly well from the weight loss and there is some loose skin on my stomach. I guess he found this to be a turn off, but he also said he got over it and it didn't bother him anymore. He said he had always found me attractive regardless.

 

This made me think about the porn issue back then in the beginning. I asked him if he ever misses it, and he said yes. I asked him if he missed the porn or the act of masturbation itself, and he said both. Although he's no longer doing it, it hurt to hear that he still wants to seek satisfaction by watching other women. He admitted he would not be okay with me doing the same thing. He said that this had nothing to do with me and that he enjoys sex with me just fine.

 

Now my self-esteem is shot. I love him, and I've felt for a while now that he's it for me. I am trying to cope with all these feelings and trying to rationalize these events, and take things for what they are NOW.... but I don't know how to. I feel inadequate and unattractive, and I don't think he's as into me as he could be. I told him that it feels that he's settling, but he disagrees. I have a horrible history with cheating exes, and now this is making me paranoid that it may cause him to cheat if he's somehow dissatisfied.

 

I feel so insecure, and I don't know how to begin coping.

 

-A

[xxoo]

Why does your bf need porn to finish with masturbation? Can't he try to be a little more creative? What about photos/videos you make together?

 

That said, porn use isn't always about looking at other women. It can be about watching sex. That's hot. Can you imagine any kind of bodies in porn that wouldn't make you feel insecure? What about women who look sort of like you? What about watching middle aged couples? Is there any common ground that works for both of you?

[USMCHokie]

That said, porn use isn't always about looking at other women.

 

Hate to say it, but more often than not, it is...

[Arabella]

Why does your bf need porn to finish with masturbation? Can't he try to be a little more creative? What about photos/videos you make together?

 

That said, porn use isn't always about looking at other women. It can be about watching sex. That's hot. Can you imagine any kind of bodies in porn that wouldn't make you feel insecure? What about women who look sort of like you? What about watching middle aged couples? Is there any common ground that works for both of you?

 

He knew about this from day 1 and he chose to lie and pursue a relationship with me regardless. If I'd known, I would NEVER have made it this far with him. Why should I have to compromise on it now?

 

I don't know the specific reason why he 'needs' it, but he has stated that he can't masturbate without it or he won't get anywhere regardless of how much stimulation. That aside, his sex drive is lower than mine, so if he starts masturbating, he rarely wants sex. When I didn't know he was doing this, he said he didn't want it more than once a week (which is sorely insufficient to me). Sure enough, as soon as he stopped, it went up to 3-4 times a week like any red-blooded 25 year old male.

 

Hate to say it, but more often than not, it is...

 

Precisely. He says that to him it was just a habit that he was trying to kick. He chose to be single for a number of years during which he wasn't having sex at all, and took up masturbation. Could it be that it was such a strong habit, despite the fact that he now has a woman ready and willing to give him as much sex as he can manage?

 

I just find that hard to believe.

[xxoo]

He knew about this from day 1 and he chose to lie and pursue a relationship with me regardless. If I'd known, I would NEVER have made it this far with him. Why should I have to compromise on it now?

 

He knew how he felt, but you didn't know how he felt. Did you ask for his perspective, or just tell him what you expect?

 

If he goes for 3-4x a week to ONCE a week with porn, that sounds like he is choosing porn over you. That's a real problem, and not normal at all. If his drive is that low, why wouldn't he want to masturbate just once a week or twice a month for variety, and save the bulk of his energy for you? These are the kinds of questions I'd ask, trying to get to the heart of the issue. What exactly does he want, what would his ideal sexual relationship with you look like, and really listen.

[pteromom]

1 - your self-image can't come from someone else, or someone else's issues. Who knows why porn is so important to him? But I am pretty dang sure that the reason ISN'T because you are lacking. And if it is, it's still his problem because he is choosing running away to porn over communication with you.

 

2 - you can force him to be someone he's not, but it is only going to cause resentment on his part. You said yourself that when he did it, he felt so much guilt because he knows how you feel about porn. Is that what you want - that his feelings toward you are GUILT and SHAME? Or do you want him to smile and feel love when he thinks of you?

 

3 - the issue isn't porn. It's what is lacking in your relationship. You aren't getting enough sex/romance. THAT is what you need to focus on fixing rather than focusing on changing him. If his values don't line up with yours, you are within your rights to leave and find someone who fits with you better.

[Mr. Lucky]

Back when we first got involved, I stated many times that I felt porn use was inappropriate when in a relationship and told him upfront that I expected him not to use it. I did tell him that I have no problems with masturbation itself, just with the use of porn, but he said that to him they go together because he can't finish without it. Nevertheless... given that we weren't having sex as often as I'd like, I asked him if he was masturbating. He denied doing so and said he was just tired for the most part.

Both your actions and tone come across as controlling. As your spouse, when and how I masturbate is none of your business. How I fulfill the sexual portion of our marriage is entirely your business. Don't confuse the two...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dreamingoftigers]

Both your actions and tone come across as controlling. As your spouse, when and how I masturbate is none of your business. How I fulfill the sexual portion of our marriage is entirely your business. Don't confuse the two...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

What a large percentage of men FAIL to understand is that one inversely affects the other.

 

Furthermore, a woman's worthiness and attractiveness as well as her "mateability" are often judged by her appearance. If a man is so callous as to "trade her in" on a regular basis because he prefers the visual imagery he masturbates to as opposed to the whole-real-sex and relationship she is offering him, why doesn't he just go and stick to his porn?

 

Why bother getting into a relationship with a woman that he doesn't truly appreciate enough to be solely intimate with?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Plus this guy made sure to mention that he doesn't want Arabella to do the same SO he MUST see a problem with her masturbating that way. Could it be that he wants his partner loyal to him and not comparing his "mateability" to other men, knowing he could very easily come up "short" as it were?

 

Or is that just more stuff they shouldn't talk about?

[Mr. Lucky]

Plus this guy made sure to mention that he doesn't want Arabella to do the same SO he MUST see a problem with her masturbating that way. Could it be that he wants his partner loyal to him and not comparing his "mateability" to other men, knowing he could very easily come up "short" as it were?

 

Or is that just more stuff they shouldn't talk about?

Have to admit that I missed that part in her post, totally hypocritical on his part. He can't ask her to do something he's not willing to do himself.

 

I'd still have a problem with a partner telling me I can't masturbate. By the same token, I'd understand if my partner had a problem were my attention to her lacking. Two separate things...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dreamingoftigers]

Have to admit that I missed that part in her post, totally hypocritical on his part. He can't ask her to do something he's not willing to do himself.

 

I'd still have a problem with a partner telling me I can't masturbate. By the same token, I'd understand if my partner had a problem were my attention to her lacking. Two separate things...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

She said he COULD masturbate, no problem.

 

It was the PORN she had an issue with.

 

Men often link the two together (behooves me in fact that often the difference has to be precisely explained). It wasn't the masturbating, it was the PORN.

[Arabella]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

 

Dreamingoftigers did a pretty good job of defending my point of view, so I'll just make some clarifications.

 

I am nothing but proud of myself for having lost 150 lbs. I had NO self-esteem issues prior to this event. No matter what weight I am at, I've always been quite successful at attracting men. Even now, men at my workplace ask me out regularly. I know that I am not objectively unattractive... the issue is that I feel unattractive and inadequate to HIM. He's the only one whose opinion matters to me.

 

He and I started out as friends, as he helped me cope with my dying engagement back then. He knew all about the inner workings of my mind. He knew my values, and my expectations. He also knew I wouldn't compromise on the things I felt very strongly about.

 

At some point, when I became single and began considering him for a relationship, I asked pointed questions about things that were important to me to gauge compatibility... and he wasn't honest with me. He told me he used porn in the past but no longer. He also told me he had never had casual sex. TWO things I felt very strongly about. Both turned out to be untrue.

 

Regardless of how you guys feel about these things, I should choose my boyfriend based on whatever criteria I deem acceptable. That's my right, and I was very upfront with him about it. I would never have gotten with him if I'd known the truth.

 

Sure, I could walk away now. But now we're in love, and despite these two things, the man I've come to know is worth the effort to me. He makes me the happiest I've ever been in ANY relationship.

 

But it doesn't mean that the fact that he lied, and the difference in values, aren't causing a problem. And that's what I'm trying to cope with...

 

The issue is two-fold. One, the fact that he apparently had issues with my body in the beginning and chose to continue onward (another thing that if I'd known, I would've walked away). Two, he gave up porn because he felt guilt at knowing that I wouldn't be okay with it, but now he misses it.

 

When he was using porn regularly, we barely had sex once a week, sometimes twice if I pushed it... and I never felt like he was really into it. The difference was nothing short of dramatic when he stopped.

 

So what am I supposed to do? Just deal with the fact that he wants to get off looking at other women, at the expense of our sex life, and let him do it? This was a deal-breaker to me from the beginning, and it feels SO unfair.

 

How is this NOT going to affect my self-esteem? It's devastating to me that he wants to do that, when I can only thing of being with him.

 

-A

Edited March 12, 2013 by Arabella

[Toddbt12y1]

Probably been said already, but:

 

Your BF is being rather disrespectful of you, as his Lady-of-Choice. It's one thing to look at porn(and let's be honest...there is an element of disrespect, even in that.) But to actually comment on these other women is disrespectful.

 

Many people look at porn, but IMO, it is worthless to look at, especially when one has a partner.

[Arabella]

Probably been said already, but:

 

Your BF is being rather disrespectful of you, as his Lady-of-Choice. It's one thing to look at porn(and let's be honest...there is an element of disrespect, even in that.) But to actually comment on these other women is disrespectful.

 

Many people look at porn, but IMO, it is worthless to look at, especially when one has a partner.

 

He didn't comment on those women at all. In fact, even when he was doing it, he denied it and kept the whole thing private.

 

The argument that started out this whole thing was a separate, unrelated issue altogether.

 

I do agree with your views about porn. In fact, my ex felt very strongly against it also... so we reserved our energies for each other. It's not just women who feel this way.

[Toddbt12y1]

He didn't comment on those women at all. In fact, even when he was doing it, he denied it and kept the whole thing private.

 

The argument that started out this whole thing was a separate, unrelated issue altogether.

 

I do agree with your views about porn. In fact, my ex felt very strongly against it also... so we reserved our energies for each other. It's not just women who feel this way.

 

Not at all. Both can feel this way. I apologize, thought I read that he did comment on a girl's fb...i must have misread or misunderstood it, sorry.

[Arabella]

Not at all. Both can feel this way. I apologize, thought I read that he did comment on a girl's fb...i must have misread or misunderstood it, sorry.

 

It was just a mildly suggestive comment on a girl's picture, that I noticed and questioned a few months ago. He blew it off at the time, and made me feel like it was in my head. I let it go, but then it turned out that he had been interested in this girl at some point in the past... but she was unavailable or uninterested. So... not in my head after all.

 

Of course, this turned out to be a meaningless matter in light of the other troubles this argument unearthed... but I guess it was a contributing factor to my insecurity.

 

It doesn't help that all these girls he seems to like are Asian, short and skinny (he's Chinese himself) and I'm... well, not.

[sweetkiwi]

I have been on both sides of this coin my dear!!! It's terrible to feel *less than* in the eyes of someone you love. And it's also terrible to be forced to hurt someone by doing something relatively innocent such as watching porn.

 

The only way I got over my aversion to porn was watching it myself. Stuff I liked. Now I completely understand Why people do it. I am not saying its the proper route for you but it helped me incredibly!!!! Also having a partner who made me feel sexy and appreciated helps too.

 

It sounds like your guy is going to do as he wants and only hide it from you. So now the only choice is your own. Will you accept he's a porn watcher, try to compromise or understand? Or will you not accept it, he'll end up doing as he wishes and you'll end up finding out about it and then be faced with these choices all over again. Or you could dump him but I doubt it.

[Arabella]

I have been on both sides of this coin my dear!!! It's terrible to feel *less than* in the eyes of someone you love. And it's also terrible to be forced to hurt someone by doing something relatively innocent such as watching porn.

 

The only way I got over my aversion to porn was watching it myself. Stuff I liked. Now I completely understand Why people do it. I am not saying its the proper route for you but it helped me incredibly!!!! Also having a partner who made me feel sexy and appreciated helps too.

 

It sounds like your guy is going to do as he wants and only hide it from you. So now the only choice is your own. Will you accept he's a porn watcher, try to compromise or understand? Or will you not accept it, he'll end up doing as he wishes and you'll end up finding out about it and then be faced with these choices all over again. Or you could dump him but I doubt it.

 

I've tried your route with other exes when I was younger, and while it seemed to work and it made me the "cool" girlfriend who watches porn and goes to strip clubs with her boyfriend, it made me feel like ****.

 

This is how I got to acquiring the values I have today when it comes to porn.

 

I will not compromise on porn. It was one of my absolute deal-breakers when choosing a man, and I communicated that very clearly. He could've chosen to walk away. He had a choice. He chose to hide it from me, at least in the beginning.

 

If you've read my post, you know that he has stopped doing it for the past few months. He did this because he knew my feelings on it, and he chose to give it up. I only found out about it later. I have NO intention of becoming accepting of this now.

 

The question now is how to deal with my feelings about it now that I know what he was doing, and the resulting self-esteem issues.

[xxoo]

The question now is how to deal with my feelings about it now that I know what he was doing, and the resulting self-esteem issues.

 

If his actions could affect your self esteem negatively, then presumably they can also affect your self esteem positively. Give him some time to prove to you that he doesn't feel that way anymore. It takes time to re-earn trust.

 

But he's also told you that he misses the porn. That's worrying. If it were me, I'd try to get the candid truth out of him. How does he really feel about no porn? Is he just telling you what you want to hear?

[Arabella]

If his actions could affect your self esteem negatively, then presumably they can also affect your self esteem positively. Give him some time to prove to you that he doesn't feel that way anymore. It takes time to re-earn trust.

 

But he's also told you that he misses the porn. That's worrying. If it were me, I'd try to get the candid truth out of him. How does he really feel about no porn? Is he just telling you what you want to hear?

 

He and I talked about all this and I didn't think he could offer anything more that wouldn't make things worse. It felt like every time we talked about the topic, I'd ask some question that would lead to another hurtful answer.

 

So I posted here instead looking for some insight to help me process all this. I've spent the past two days obsessing over the whole thing, and this is what I've come down to.

 

The only one that is really unresolved and bothering me is the fact that he "misses" porn and still has the desire to use it. To me, this equates to him actively desiring other women, period. It clashes strongly with my feelings because I only want him. :/

 

A year ago, he would've been the one listening to all my boyfriend troubles. I miss his unbiased feedback.

 

Maybe I do need to talk to him again about this though...

[CarrieT]

The only one that is really unresolved and bothering me is the fact that he "misses" porn and still has the desire to use it. To me, this equates to him actively desiring other women, period. It clashes strongly with my feelings because I only want him. :/

No offense to your feelings, but I don't think you are being very empathetic to how a male brain works.

 

You are wanting him to feel and act a certain way without realizing that guys use porn and think about it differently than women do. It rarely has anything to do with desiring other women because YOU are seeing the people in the porn as a viable threat when most men are just looking at the sexual act - and often fantasizing about their own partners within the contexts of those scenes.

 

That last part is critical.

 

Personally, I think anyone who tries to regulate another person's internal thoughts is wrong which is what I feel you are trying to do. If it were an issue of a guy preferring porn to sex, then it is an issue. But to supplement is a different matter.

[Arabella]

No offense to your feelings, but I don't think you are being very empathetic to how a male brain works.

 

You are wanting him to feel and act a certain way without realizing that guys use porn and think about it differently than women do. It rarely has anything to do with desiring other women because YOU are seeing the people in the porn as a viable threat when most men are just looking at the sexual act - and often fantasizing about their own partners within the contexts of those scenes.

 

That last part is critical.

 

Personally, I think anyone who tries to regulate another person's internal thoughts is wrong which is what I feel you are trying to do. If it were an issue of a guy preferring porn to sex, then it is an issue. But to supplement is a different matter.

 

Frankly, and no disrespect to you (I do appreciate your input), but I don't really care how SOME guys work.

 

When he used porn, he wasn't really supplementing our sex life. He was replacing a huge chunk of it. We would have sex once a week and he wasn't even that into it. There was a dramatic change when he stopped. We started having sex more, and you could tell he was a lot more excited when we did have it. I even commented on it at the time... I just never knew the reason for it until I found out that he had been using porn.

 

This is precisely the reason why I did not want to be with a man who uses porn. I did NOT sign up for this and I am not looking to be "sympathetic" towards his feelings about it.

 

I am not trying to regulate anything. I am trying to understand it to see how I can live with it.

[CarrieT]

When he used porn, he wasn't really supplementing our sex life. He was replacing a huge chunk of it. We would have sex once a week and he wasn't even that into it. There was a dramatic change when he stopped. We started having sex more, and you could tell he was a lot more excited when we did have it. I even commented on it at the time... I just never knew the reason for it until I found out that he had been using porn.

Than your feelings are very understandable and I totally get where you are coming from.

 

I am not trying to regulate anything. I am trying to understand it to see how I can live with it.

You may not be able to. And that is okay too...

[Arabella]

Than your feelings are very understandable and I totally get where you are coming from.

 

 

You may not be able to. And that is okay too...

 

I need to find a way to rationalize it enough that I can somehow deal with it. I am NOT willing to give up this relationship. :/

[xxoo]

I need to find a way to rationalize it enough that I can somehow deal with it. I am NOT willing to give up this relationship. :/

 

I need to understand things to let them go and move past them. From what you are telling us here, I would have more questions and concerns. I'd push for more explanation. Specifically, I'd ask him what he prefers: porn or sex with me. I'd also ask what he preferred when he was using porn. Further, I'd want to know if he could feel completely comfortable about giving up porn forever for me--or was it something he was doing for me, but resented.

 

He and I talked about all this and I didn't think he could offer anything more that wouldn't make things worse. It felt like every time we talked about the topic, I'd ask some question that would lead to another hurtful answer.

 

If his answers make you feel worse, that isn't a reason to stop asking. That would be conflict avoidance and denial--both which contribute to relationship demise, cheating, and all sorts of bad stuff.

[Dragonfruit]

SO SORRY THIS TURNED INTO A NOVEL, LOL

 

Arabella. About porn, Please hear me out because I think this is different and takes some thinking to consider fully:

 

Don't judge men by women standards. What you would mean if "you" did something is NOT always the same as what he means when he does it. Men think very differently from women in some ways.

 

Masturbation

 

Women's Masturbation:

 

It is done to "Porn in their minds." That's what a fantasy is. So ladies, don't be smug. The only difference is YOU can't get busted because there's no way to snoop through your haid and find it. LOL! Do YOU really plan to search for that sultan who captured you and... you know... and run off with him? Does it mean you don't love your guy? What, exactly, is the relationship between your masturbation fantasies in your mind and your feelings or relationship with your guy? NOTHING! Right? Same for him and his visual images or movies. Hold on...

 

Or sometimes, RARELY, women's masturbation fantasies really ARE all about their own guy. *looks around, hoping husband does not look over shoulder.* "Y'all are like girls who tell all your secrets to your moms. You are not to be trusted, lol.

 

And... I hear a lot of women like toys. Well, you are simulating ANOTHER MAN'S PENIS IN YOUR COOTCHIE, THEN! That seems to me a wee bit more personal than movies and pictures, which are at least at a "decent" distance.

 

And/or women use written erotica. You think that's better? NO. Male and female minds simply work differently. Men= visual. Women= mental. Careful there with being judgmental about his porn, ladies. When you say your mental fantasies, toys, written erotica are superior, safer, more ethical, IMO you're simply not getting it that Males and Females think differently when it comes to masturbation aids.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you ONLY think of your guy when you masturbate? Do you consider YOUR masturbation his business to monitor, restrict, and snoop around on to be sure you aren't aren't using any "threatening" aids?

 

If my husband sneakily measured the level on the lube bottle, checked out erotica stories to see if any pages were dog-eared, or tried to CLIMB INTO MY BRAIN to jealously check out my mental masturbation fantasies... I would think he was insane and unappealing and run.

 

My feeling is women who freak out over their guy's use of porn for masturbation so because they are mistakenly putting FEMALE masturbation methods on MALE minds.

 

Pleas read this over at least twice because I believe it really is true and different. It takes some considering.

 

"But. But. But. How I do it isn't REAL people in pictures/movies."

 

My answer: Blah, blah, blah. Are we making an honest effort here to understand the differences between how male mind and female mind process masturbation images, or are we just wanting to win and be right? When Porn Girl's phone number is attached, then you can talk, imo.

 

Men's Masturbation:

 

They LIKE VISUAL IMAGES. Pictures or movies. See above and all of our women's various methods and tell me who is nastier, lol.

 

JUST LIKE YOU, THEY BARELY REMEMBER WHAT THEY SAW TEN MINUTES LATER. This is NOT a threat.

 

Anyway, let me tell you this: You are no better. Understand what I'm saying? Once you get it that these two things ARE equivalents, you will NOT be threatened by his porn use (using it in lieu of sex with you IS a separate topic. But, one issue at a time here, right?).

 

Also. I suggest re-reading what all of the males have said on here. When you are getting into the male mind, do NOT assume it is the same as your female mind. This is the mistake females make. Listen closely to the men.

 

How exposed, embarrassed, horrified, would you feel if a big, teary, accusatory tirade and threats to leave you followed every time you "got caught" masturbating? Or if it was "his right" to know all about it and "make rules on it" as a condition of getting to be with him? Would you consider him overly controlling and even abusive?

 

This takes time to step out and consider it all turned around with the appropriate "male or female mind" masturbation aids substituted. If he did all that to YOU, with your "female masturbation aids" you would think he was overbearing and insane. Yes? And, you would be mortified, wouldn't you?

 

I have NEVER known a man who did not use porn. Sorry. Every boyfriend, husband, father, sons. What women use is just harder to catch them with and would seem more weirdly invasive for a man to even dare mention.

 

My opinion: If you consider the above about yourself to be YOUR private business, then his masturbation aids, which are separate but equal, are HIS private business. And they mean EXACTLY the same about his feelings for you. NOTHING.

 

I think the whole problem there is that there's a disconnect because the women don't know that it's the same thing, same meaning, but just different aids preferred for males. Once they get that, they won't be jealous or insecure or threatened by his porn.

 

As others have said, porn taking from sex time is a separate issue. But perhaps more easily resolved when he feels like he can be his real self with you, without big wild scenes. If you want to know the truth, then you MUST be able to handle the truth. NO ONE is likely to reveal themselves when they know it will lead to all kinds of craziness.

 

Them's my two cops on that.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Dragonfruit