Why does the BS dismiss the pain of the OW

[stevie_23]

If I were a BS, I could not care LESS about the feelings or pain of the OW!

 

I AM an ex-OW and I KNOW the hideous, heartbreaking pain of my ex-MM leaving me, but I would NEVER expect his BS to care about that!

 

The OW shouldn’t even BE in the equation to begin with, they knew what they were getting into from the start and chose to proceed nonetheless, and at the end of the day, the BS has more than enough to deal with in terms of the hurt, betrayal and shock the A causes them without having to think of the OW’s feelings! AND they most likely feel the OW (as well as the MM) have brought this pain on themselves and that they are the one who has hurt HER (the BS) so why should SHE feel bad for THEIR pain? There would BE no pain for anyone if the OW hadn’t been with the MM in the first place.

 

Having said that, of course I believe the OW deserves empathy and sympathy and care and support, as anyone going through a painful situation does, but I don't think the BS is the person that needs to come from.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's a crap analogy

 

How about a drunk driver that smashes into a car and everyone, including the drunk driver, is disfigured? For whom do you have the most empathy? The driver or the other victims of the crash?

 

How about if the drunk driver lashes out afterwards saying, "Fuc k everybody! Fuc k the victims, too! I'm in pain here!" Do you still have empathy for the drunk driver? Or would you perhaps dismiss her and feel for the innocent victims?

 

Perhaps I would empathize with the drunk driver if they were remorseful and tried to make up for their mistake. But sheer defensiveness after it's happened and peoples' lives are ruined? Do you want them to send you flowers?

 

YOU have a serious problem with empathy, TOW.

[waterwoman]

I don't. I'm sorry for h's XOW. I can see what a mess she's in and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The fact that the mess is of her own making is irrelevant.

I'm not so medieval that I believe people deserve suffering.

 

Pain is pain. It can't be dismissed.

 

For a time after d-day I was so angry and hurt I wouldn't have cared if she really had gone under the wheels of a bus!!! I would never have expressed that or done/said anything to hurt her. That anger has gone. Maybe your BW just needs more time.

[TheOW]

[quote=BetrayedH;4680901

 

YOU have a serious problem with empathy, TOW.

 

 

 

No I don't

[ThatJustHappened]

Maybe I'm being obtuse..but I'm just wondering. TheOW..are you asking about BS's in general, or the BS in your specific case?

[Pierre]

No I don't

 

 

TOW:

 

 

Hmm, yes and no.

 

As OWs go you show greater than average empathy, no doubt. That is what makes you attractive as a woman.

 

However, one also needs to have some lack of empathy to engage into an affair. SO there is a bit of a contradiction.

 

In any event any empathy is better than no empathy.

 

 

 

The fact that you asked the question is this thread is very telling about your makeup. Most folks would not think about this question. Why did you ask?

[Owl]

There are a number of BS's here who not only don't dismiss the pain of OW/OM who post on this site, but who in fact have spent a good amount of time trying to help them cope/deal/recover from that pain.

 

I'd like to think that I'm one of them, but even if I'm not, I can name several others if you'd like.

 

The only time I tend to dismiss an OW/OM's pain is if they demonstrate a lack of sympathy/empathy for the pain of others themselves, or if they refuse to make changes in their life to resolve their own pain, and appear to wallow in it instead.

 

Most OW who come here typically aren't looking to wallow in it. They're usually looking for some solid advice on how to either cope with it, or end it. Those are the ones that can be helped by virtually anyone on this site.

[Got it]

The BS dismisses your pain because he/she does not see it as legitimate. And likely, they also see it as a situation where you should have known better than to invite the pain into your life by entering into this type of relationship.

 

It may not be fair to say that, but I think that's the case. I'm newly married and I spent a long, long time dating because I got married for the first time as an old lady. As a single woman, I wouldn't have dated a married man - just didn't seem like a fair deal to me. You either offer me what I can offer you or I'm outta here. As a married woman, I see what I've invested into my marriage. I have joined families, resources, houses and I have committed my heart, even when times are tough and I don't really feel loving to my husband. That is a huge gamble.

 

If my husband ever chose to hurt my marriage in that way, it would simply be over and I would have no sympathy for him or for the other person. I'm outta there.

 

So, when I assess situations of posters here, I try to set that aside and genuinely understand someone's pain because it does hurt and it is real. But, in the back of my mind, I do think that an OW has invited this pain by choosing to get into a highly risky relationship and that they are also treading on what someone else has invested into their own marriage. It's hard to disconnect from that. I hope I am not dismissive, but empathetic in a way that is also not enabling.

 

To me, that is like saying, I have a friend who is married to a guy that I don't think treats her as well as she deserves, doesn't prioritize her like I feel she should be. He has said some crappy things and leaves her alone a lot. So when they fight and when she is upset, while I comfort her, I think in the back of my head what does she expect the signs are all there, and think that she has invited it to some degree.

 

I may not agree, I may not approve, but my sympathies are not tied to my validation of another's actions. I will comfort because that is the easy thing I can offer someone regardless of my thoughts on it. Enabling would be to continue for them to chase the clown which I am not going to do, but I am not going to kick someone when they are already on the ground and writhing.

[georgia girl]

Gosh, I truly hope I don't do that. Instead, I try to give advice that is empowering for the poster and reflects both strength in action and a course for positivity. But, I can also accept criticism if it's well deserved, so thanks for your comments.

[2sure]

None of my exes OW were in pain as they hardly knew him.

My X was dismissive in general about them and I felt that was further violation of them and myself as well.

 

But. I've been OW. And I knew MM was married. I chose to not think about his wife or think about any pain my affair with her husband may cause her. I dismissed her.

 

Under the circumstances, as OW having dismissed the BS...why would I expect her to treat me differently?

[2sure]

BS is a big part of OWs pain. OW is a big part of BSs pain.

 

Most people come here because they are in pain.

 

To seek validation from each other while still in pain just seems nearly impossible.

[MissBee]

If I were a BS, I could not care LESS about the feelings or pain of the OW!

 

I AM an ex-OW and I KNOW the hideous, heartbreaking pain of my ex-MM leaving me, but I would NEVER expect his BS to care about that!

 

The OW shouldn’t even BE in the equation to begin with, they knew what they were getting into from the start and chose to proceed nonetheless, and at the end of the day, the BS has more than enough to deal with in terms of the hurt, betrayal and shock the A causes them without having to think of the OW’s feelings! AND they most likely feel the OW (as well as the MM) have brought this pain on themselves and that they are the one who has hurt HER (the BS) so why should SHE feel bad for THEIR pain? There would BE no pain for anyone if the OW hadn’t been with the MM in the first place.

 

Having said that, of course I believe the OW deserves empathy and sympathy and care and support, as anyone going through a painful situation does, but I don't think the BS is the person that needs to come from.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

I think it is unreasonable to expect a BS to care about the OW's pain. I'll add a caveat, and that is: if one is a BS and is gonna support on a forum of OW/OM, then yes one should try to be empathetic if one is trying to help them, but outside of that, a BS isn't required to care about the OW's pain...for reasons you and others have stated.

 

It's like if I were drunk driving and ran down someone's child, who then becomes paralyzed, and it results in me going to jail. It would be a bit loony for me to wonder why doesn't the family care about my pain as a prisoner who no longer has freedom, can't see my family etc. My pain was a consequence of a poor choice I made. The pain is indeed valid and I don't need to be punished for life...however, I can't reasonably expect the family with the paralyzed child to be the ones who are going to embrace me and say they get my pain.

[Eggplant]

But, in the back of my mind, I do think that an OW has invited this pain by choosing to get into a highly risky relationship and that they are also treading on what someone else has invested into their own marriage.

To me, that is like saying, I have a friend who is married to a guy that I don't think treats her as well as she deserves, ... while I comfort her, I think in the back of my head what does she expect the signs are all there, and think that she has invited it to some degree.

Got it, the difference in your analogy is that the married friend has the right to take her own risks for her own happiness, reckless as they may be, as she is not hurting anybody else. In the case of the OW, there is an innocent 3rd party, as georgia girl mentions in the second part of her sentence.

[stevie_23]

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

I think it is unreasonable to expect a BS to care about the OW's pain. I'll add a caveat, and that is: if one is a BS and is gonna support on a forum of OW/OM, then yes one should try to be empathetic if one is trying to help them, but outside of that, a BS isn't required to care about the OW's pain...for reasons you and others have stated.

 

It's like if I were drunk driving and ran down someone's child, who then becomes paralyzed, and it results in me going to jail. It would be a bit loony for me to wonder why doesn't the family care about my pain as a prisoner who no longer has freedom, can't see my family etc. My pain was a consequence of a poor choice I made. The pain is indeed valid and I don't need to be punished for life...however, I can't reasonably expect the family with the paralyzed child to be the ones who are going to embrace me and say they get my pain.

 

Yes, that's right. The OW deserve support but not from the BS. Unless the BS specifically finds it helpful and cathartic to do so of course. Then that's a really helpful scenario, but...definitely not required or to be expected.

 

As for BS who come here...I still don't think they should necessarily be expected to support the OW's pain, but if they are interested in being here, in my opinion, it's because they're interested in understanding the feelings of the OW as to how they might relate to the overall A situation, to help the BS understand better their own feelings and the situation.

[Got it]

Got it, the difference in your analogy is that the married friend has the right to take her own risks for her own happiness, reckless as they may be, as she is not hurting anybody else. In the case of the OW, there is an innocent 3rd party, as georgia girl mentions in the second part of her sentence.

 

I disagree. Whether there is an innocent third party or not we are talking about someone making "risky" decisions and the level of sympathy given to them for it. The premise of her rationing was tied to the the risky behavior. The argument was not made that you directly hurt someone else so your allotment of sympathies is less. That might be the/one of the arguments but not on the piece bolded.

[Got it]

Yes, that's right. The OW deserve support but not from the BS. Unless the BS specifically finds it helpful and cathartic to do so of course. Then that's a really helpful scenario, but...definitely not required or to be expected.

 

As for BS who come here...I still don't think they should necessarily be expected to support the OW's pain, but if they are interested in being here, in my opinion, it's because they're interested in understanding the feelings of the OW as to how they might relate to the overall A situation, to help the BS understand better their own feelings and the situation.

 

I agree in that I don't think that it is at all reasonable to expect sympathy from the BS in my case, his wife. That would be foolish and quite unreasonable.

 

I do think, in a broader context, if a BS comes to a board that is about the OP, one should wear the appropriate hat and a level of reasonable compassion should be extended. If one is not in the frame of mind to do so, completely understandable, stay away from the things that trigger you. It seems to be a bit like being afraid of being electrocuted but continuing to stick your finger in the socket. Same goes for OP who frequent boards geared towards BS. Don't go expecting everyone to sing Kumbaya with you. It isn't reasonable and it is not going to wield rewarding results.

 

I think there is the ability, with the right emotional frame of mind on all sides that all three parties can come to the table and discuss the areas with the least amount of emotional triggering and analytical abilities but it takes time, distance, and the appropriate frame of mind.

 

I do not expect the general BS to support the OP as that is an easier rule of thumb. At best you will be surprised to find the reverse. I think, somewhat similar, you will find both the OP and the BS struggle with offering support for the pain of the WS.

[whichwayisup]

One question though - Why is an OW wanting a BS to accept her pain, validate her pain? Does it really matter? Pain is pain and if someone feels it, it's there whether or not a BS, a WS or anybody else gives empathy or sympathy. Whomever IS in pain, is in pain. Hope this all makes sense..It did in my head!

 

Are we talking about BS's and OW's on here or in each of your situations offline?

[stevie_23]

One question though - Why is an OW wanting a BS to accept her pain, validate her pain? Does it really matter? Pain is pain and if someone feels it, it's there whether or not a BS, a WS or anybody else gives empathy or sympathy. Whomever IS in pain, is in pain. Hope this all makes sense..It did in my head!

 

Are we talking about BS's and OW's on here or in each of your situations offline?

 

Yes exactly. Why would an OW need the BS specifically to feel her pain?

 

I don’t need my ex-MM’s wife to acknowledge or understand or sympathise with anything that I feel. Why the hell would I? The whole idea just baffles me, frankly.

 

Do some OWs feel the need for that because it’s somehow another connection with the ex-MM? Or do they feel like the BS is the ONLY person who could ever understand, because this MM has hurt them BOTH? I mean…come on, people. Get with the program. YOU chose to be in an A with this MM. And now…unfortunately (for you), it’s over. Very sad, but…what do you expect the BS to do about it? She’s most likely trying to salvage something of her own life and your presence and pain as the OW may be nothing more than a bug in her ointment.

[Got it]

Yes exactly. Why would an OW need the BS specifically to feel her pain?

 

I don’t need my ex-MM’s wife to acknowledge or understand or sympathise with anything that I feel. Why the hell would I? The whole idea just baffles me, frankly.

 

Do some OWs feel the need for that because it’s somehow another connection with the ex-MM? Or do they feel like the BS is the ONLY person who could ever understand, because this MM has hurt them BOTH? I mean…come on, people. Get with the program. YOU chose to be in an A with this MM. And now…unfortunately (for you), it’s over. Very sad, but…what do you expect the BS to do about it? She’s most likely trying to salvage something of her own life and your presence and pain as the OW may be nothing more than a bug in her ointment.

 

Who has stated they expect the specific BS in their situation needs to appreciate their pain?

 

I never expected or considered that? Seems like asking for the seas to part as well or as likely to happen.

[LFH]

One question though - Why is an OW wanting a BS to accept her pain, validate her pain? Does it really matter? Pain is pain and if someone feels it, it's there whether or not a BS, a WS or anybody else gives empathy or sympathy. Whomever IS in pain, is in pain. Hope this all makes sense..It did in my head!

 

Are we talking about BS's and OW's on here or in each of your situations offline?

For me, it's about not hurting someone further.

I know that there will be cases where someone will read something someone says, like me for instance, where I say that I will never give him up... and they may be totally and completely unable to offer me any compassion for pain I might be feeling. I think it's ok that they don't feel any empathy or compassion but I don't think it's ok to seek out a situation that might trigger you, or upset you or however you want to phrase it and then use that as an excuse to be nasty. That's all I've ever meant by accepting it. Taking the person where they are at and not trying to hurt them more.

 

I don't know if that makes sense or not, I need sleep, but that's nothing new.

[stevie_23]

Oh, I have no idea. I was just referring to this post here ...

 

One question though - Why is an OW wanting a BS to accept her pain, validate her pain? Does it really matter?

[stevie_23]

No no, I think you DO have the “right” to express your pain. Yes, you shouldn’t have been in that particular relationship but you STILL have a right to express your pain. Just not to the BS.

[cocorico]

I think two issues get conflated here:

 

* Some BS express the view that OW / OM /WS pain is self-inflicted, thus less deserving of support than "innocent" pain such as that which many BS suffer. Thus, they feel these fora should approximate "real" life and deal out consequences rather than kid gloves when it comes to the pain of the OW / OM / WS.

 

* these fora are not "real life". The BS here are (by and large) not the BS of your MM / MW, and the OW / OM are not the AP of your WS, and the WS is not your WS / MM / MW. It provides a space where you can discuss with others in similar, or "opposed" positions, and seek support or insight that you may not as readily source in your "real life" situation.

 

Some members argue that the first scenario should hold sway, that Community Guidelines calling for civility and respect are anomalous since the very premise of an A means civility and respect were long ago abandoned by the APs who thou automatically cede their own "rights" to civility and respect from others.

 

Other members accept that other members have personally done them no individual wrong, and can put aside any resentment toward the role to recognise the humanity of the individual and to respond to that, providing support and insight, and themselves learning in the process.

 

The former group supply most of the "bashing" posts, and the latter group most of the thoughtful, supportive posts. Sometimes members start out in one group and, with time and exposure, graduate to the other, while others dig in and entrench themselves even more firmly in their starter group.

 

It's a open forum, there are guidelines setting out appropriate behaviour, but beyond that, people will respond as their values, experiences, insights and opportunities constrain. Some will "get it", others won't but will think they do, and others won't care much either way.

[TheOW]

TOW, I support you. I think you are a kind woman who has her defenses up, which would be totally expected right now.

 

My postings have not been about minimizing your pain, but to help you see from all angles why people (the BS) may be acting the way they are. I also want you to see that, while you don't have to hang your head, aggression is not the way, either.

 

I do believe you'll get there. Have empathy, compassion, and heartfelt remorse, and it will be returned. Maybe not right away, but it will.

 

And I AM sorry for your pain, I truly am. I don't like to see anyone hurting.

 

Thanks bring

 

I think a lot of people have got me a bit confused, I was not referring to the BS in my own situation to me that's unthinkable at the moment. I was again being defensive against a few posters who thought the ow deserved the pain she got and much much more and it raised my hackles .. Sometimes on here BS act like the are all high and mighty and just look down on us ow (not all of you only a few i have noticed the last few days) Yes I brought this down on my self and I am paying the biggest price of all, but again my choice, my mistake and I will learn and grow from it. I know one phone call from me to MM and he will come running to me he's not in a good place either and I think he is very confused about his feelings for both of us. But I won't allow that contact as much as I love him we are at 2 different stages of life and it just wouldn't work out long term.

 

I do not know what I expected to happen I just fell hard for him really really hard, I was ok with things as neither of us were in sexual relationships with our spouses so I kind of accepted that as it being ok (how wrong I know) he told me I had to let him go numerous times and that if he fell in love with me he would find it almost impossible to let me go again (he had never loved anyone accept his wife) I didn't/couldn't let him go, he was the only thing that was keeping my family together without him I would have left long ago, I was blissfully happy and so was he, although he really struggled sometimes with the deceit - I did not. He and I both knew he couldn't resist me and I know I should have let him go but I just couldn't, I don't expect anyone to understand that.

 

I have been reading through some of my posts and I agree with most of you on here I seem like a silly, stupid, little arrogant girl - I don't know how I became this person, I wasn't her a few years ago, I am finding it hard to care I've wrapped this bubble around me and my kids and I'm lashing at anyone who dares enter.

 

But I must apologise to a few users on here (you know who you are) I'm sorry and I really do appreciate your kind words

[AnotherRound]

To me, politeness is not the same as support. You can be polite to someone and not this support them. I think the OP may have been referring to (I'm totally guessing here) the fact that there are some folks who purposely go where they will not like what they see and then proceed to be rude. When really, it's as simple as not going where you will feel that - or at least having the ability as an adult to control yourself.

 

Also, I've seen someone say that the OW here should say that they are sorry to the WS here... ???? I have said that I'm sorry to some here - whatever their label - for their pain. I have not, however, apologized for my behavior to strangers who were not affected by my behavior. That seems a little odd to me - as I did not cause anyone here pain through my actions (unless of course the BW is here and was actually hurt by my actions, which doesn't seem to be the case).

 

This is some more of that "groveling" thing for me. That if an OW doesn't come here with their tail tucked between their legs and beg for forgiveness from strangers then it is decided that she is unremorseful and must be punished. In my life, I answer to no-one except myself and my own personal higher powers. I apologize to those that I hurt without hesitation - but I don't beg for outside forgiveness because I don't need it, nor does it matter to me what strangers think of me. They have no right to judge me or my behaviors any more than I have to judge theirs.

 

I notice that if an OW comes here and states that they are a horrible person, and apologizes profusely to strangers for hurting them, that they are accepted with open arms. And that's great - I don't think it's healthy (I know, I know), but whatever works. But I won't be beat into submission by bullies - regardless of the fact that they THINK they have a right to forgive me. I don't need their forgiveness - I have come to terms with my own behaviors in my own life, and no external validation of that is necessary. I know what I know and stand where I stand with pride - I am not diminished as a person because I participated in something others deem wrong.

 

This could be so many things, it's unreal. Here, it's about affairs - but there are a lot of behaviors that I disagree with - I don't go around telling those people to apologize to me if they partake in those behaviors! I will let the universe do its work as it sees fit. It all balances out in the end, and nobody will ever convince me that I am not a good person worthy of respect and politeness.

 

*This does not pertain to everyone here, only a select few - as with any population, there are always "those" people, lol.