My Russian Penpal......

[Moose]

My Russian Penpal wants to come to the US to meet me!!!! She's a wonderful person who's been through a lot!!! My wife hasn't been on this forum in a long time so I thought I'd better post this now and hopefully it'll get buried before she sees it.

 

I don't know what she would think when Elena, ( That's my penpal ), comes out to visit. Elena knows I'm married, but she wants to spend time with me. She doesn't know my wife at all and says she'd be uncomfortable if she were around with us. She wants to check out some of America while she's here on her visa. And of course, I told her I'd be more than happy to show her around KC at least.

 

I have no intentions at all to cheat on my wife. But how do I convince her that we are just penpals and she should trust me enough to show her the sites, and spend maybe a weekend in KC? I of course would stay at my Mom's and she of course would be in a hotel.

 

Elena and I have known each other for several years and I know so much about her. She probably knows a lot more about me than even my wife. I know that sounds bad on my part. But my wife isn't all that lovey, feely, emotional type and could care less what my feelings are. I can share all of my feelings with Elena and she listens to me! She sends me words of affirmation and such care. She gives me that emotional support that my wife doesn't. I've talked to my wife before about how she makes me feel and what I wish she would do differently. She alters her habits for me but it only lasts for so long then it's back to the same ole, same ole.

 

I just want to be able to spend time with a friend that has been a huge support for me through the years, that's it.

 

What should I do?

[Papillon]

Come, Elena, see how the kapitalist peegs live the good life....

 

Nice, you seem like a straight shooter, and I' sure your wife won't have a problem.

 

Have to ask yourself the question: what would you do if Elena lived closer?

[Moose]

I think that if Elena did live closer that she and my wife would be cool buddies. Too bad my wife's little brother got married, they would make a cute couple.

[tiki]

 

If she's nothing for the wife to get upset about, why hide her?

[Moose]

On the contrary, I'm trying to get help on how to make her understand that I want to spend time with Elena. I'm not hiding her at all.

[Matilda]

" I can share all of my feelings with Elena and she listens to me! She sends me words of affirmation and such care. She gives me that emotional support that my wife doesn't. I've talked to my wife before about how she makes me feel and what I wish she would do differently. She alters her habits for me but it only lasts for so long then it's back to the same ole, same ole."

 

Moose,

 

I gotta tell ya', this would make me a little nervous if I were your wife. I don't think I would be too thrilled, if my husband were going to meet his more emotionally compatible Russian penpal, that doesn't want to meet me.

[tiki]

Moose -

 

Good. If it's that innocent, wifey shouldn't mind at all.

[Moose]

Matilda,

 

I see your point. However, I can't tell you how many times my wife is on the phone with her mom for hours at a time. What could they be talking about? She's just sharing things with her I know, and that's all I do with Elena.

I just think that sometimes I can tell Elena things that would normally cause my wife to turn her selective hearing to, "Ignore husband's mushy stuff", mode.

 

The things that Elena and I talk about are usually about my wife and her SO. Your point is exactley why I'm so worried about asking my wife if it's ok with her.

[Matilda]

I guess the only thing to do is ask her. Tell her everything you've told us, and see how she feels. Once it's out in the open, at least you can have some sort of dialog about it.

[ShareHer]

Moose my friend, you never cease to amaze me. When you and I first butted heads, you made it very clear that there are certain things that should be kept between a husband and a wife… in particular, sex. Now you’re telling us that you want to share some personal information with another woman. You want to spend time out of town with this other woman, albeit in separate sleeping quarters. You feel your wife isn’t in tune with your sensitive side but this other woman is. Wow, I’m shocked. As you know, if my wife asked to have sex with another man I would be more than happy to have her do so. But if she said she wanted to hang out with this other guy because he understood her more than I do, if she said that they had more in common than she and I did, if she said that I ignored her sensitive side, holy hell! I believe I’d have to re-evaluate my marriage. To me sex is sex but looking for all those other features outside the marriage sounds like someone is unhappy at home. What if you do meet this woman you and you two just absolutely hit it off? What if you two click on every level? What if you two even have a physical attraction? Don’t you think this is going to amplify your problems at home ten fold?

 

Let’s turn the tables for a moment. What if your wife had a male pen pal and wanted to meet him for a couple of days in another town? What if she told you that this guy liked it when she wore sexy clothes in public and that he was understanding and open minded when it came to women having desires for other women? (I used these two because I know you had to deal with these issues in the real world) What if she said he never nagged her or maybe he was rich and wanted to take her to the islands to show her his villa? She told you that they were just friends, nothing more. Would you be ok with this?

 

Even if your little meeting is like you said, strictly on friendly terms, do you think your wife would be wrong in thinking that you were taking on a surrogate wife?

[Moose]

Shareher,

 

Once again you've shown me, "another view". I do share these intimate feelings with my wife. Like I've said before, I don't hide anything from her at all. She even knows about Elena. There isn't anything that I've shared with Elena that I haven't shared with my wife. It's my wife's attitude towards my feelings that concern me. Remember how she tossed my feelings right out the window about the way she dresses? Well, it's the same whenever we discuss any feelings that I have. I don't really blame her. I blame the way that she was raised, her daddy's genes, the way her feelings where stomped on, now she treats everyone like that.

 

I would even be happy if she'd, ( My wife ), would tag along with us. I just don't know how uncomfortable that'll make Elena. I mean, Elena knows alot about my wife but she doesn't agree with the ways that my wife deals with issues that her and I have talked about. I would almost say she gets kinda pissed at my wife.

 

I want to show Elena a good time while she's here, but I don't want to piss my wife off either. You're right, I probably wouldn't want the tables to be turned and I would be suspicious that my wife may be cheating. But if it was something she felt strongly about and wanted to do, I don't think I'd have much of a choice but to let her go. I would just have to trust her is all.

[ShareHer]

Originally posted by Moose

What should I do?

 

Ok Moose, I'm not trying to bust on you, I'm just trying to get some feedback. You said something about you hoped this thread would drop off the boards before your wife sees it. You may have been kidding but what if she did indeed read your original post? I guess what you're saying is that she wouldn't be learning anything about herself that she didn't already know. If I were your wife and even considering how non-jealous I am, I would be upset by it. She is aware of how she is, isn't she?

 

Elena and I have known each other for several years and I know so much about her. She probably knows a lot more about me than even my wife. I know that sounds bad on my part. But my wife isn't all that lovey, feely, emotional type and could care less what my feelings are. I can share all of my feelings with Elena and she listens to me! She sends me words of affirmation and such care. She gives me that emotional support that my wife doesn't. I've talked to my wife before about how she makes me feel and what I wish she would do differently. She alters her habits for me but it only lasts for so long then it's back to the same ole, same ole.

 

Wow. That's a big chunk of honesty there and like they say, the truth hurts. I know what you mean about how some spouses will change their ways for a short time and then revert back to their old ways. My ex was definitely like that.

 

Again Moose, I'm not busting on you but I want to ask this ... When spouses cheat, at what point are they actually cheating? When they have sex maybe?Why do spouses cheat? Isn't it to fulfill something that's missing in their marriage? Is it the sex that's missing? Actually, I don't think so. I think what's missing is the adoration, the sympathetic ear, the understanding. The sex is just the end product after those other things have happened. I suppose my point is, if a man is going to another woman to fulfill certain attributes that are missing in his marriage, even if sex is not one of those attributes, isn't that like cheating in your book?

 

If you don't mind, please quote and answer some of my questions.

[FolderWife]

In this situation, I would say do what the Bible says.

 

Cling to your wife, forsaking all others.

 

In other words, put your wife before everyone else, including YOU...yes, you.

 

YOU want to hang out with your little Russian pen pal. YOU know that it will be innocent. Your wife on the other hand, may feel threatened, and none of us blame her, because you've already voiced in not so many words that your pen pal knows and understands you better than your wife, and your wife has little things about her that you want her to change, whereas your penpal does not.

 

that's threatening. How would you feel if your wife had a friend that understood her, and cared for her, and supported her....and she pretty much told you that you have problems, you don't care about her, and she wishes that you'd change.

 

You would feel threatened by this friend.

 

I am in no way insinuating that your relationship with your PP is inappropriate, but I am clearly saying that your wife has a valid reason to be uncomfortable with your relationship with your PP.

 

I said all of that to say this. Your best option is to tell your wife that your PP is coming to America, and you'd like to spend time with her. Tell her that she is your friend, and nothing more. Tell her that you'd stay at your mom's, and your PP would stay at a Hotel.

 

If she's uncomfortable with this in the LEAST, you'll call the whole thing off. Tell your wife that you want to hang out with your PP, but it's up to her, and if she's comfortable with it.

 

REGARDLESS of what your PP wants, invite your wife to come along. Explain to your wife that your PP said that she'd be more comfortable with just the two of you, but if it makes your wife more comfortable, she's more than welcome to come along.

 

Your wife comes FIRST, not your pen pal. You need to consider your wife's feelings before your PP's. Who cares if PP would be more comfortable if your wife wasn't there. What matters is how your WIFE feels, because your wife is the one you live with, AND she's the one you vowed to love honor and cherish...so act like it.

 

Your best chance for getting some alone time with your PP is to put your wife first. Again, invite her along, but voice that your PP said she's be more comfortable without your wife there. Also, tell your wife that if she's at all uncomfortable with you hanging out with your pen pal, then you won't hang out with her.

 

DO NOT say that you should be allowed to hang out with whomever you want. DO NOT say, "Well I'm just going to do it any way."

 

Let your wife decide this time. Don't tell me, "Well, she's allowed to hang out with whoever she wants!" Because that's neither here nor there. She may be completely devoted to you, and you have no doubt that she loves and will be faithful to you. You, on the other hand, have given loveshack 3 or 4 reasons why your wife would be uncomfortable with this.

 

So respect her this time. Put her needs and wants before yours. Don't be selfish. Tell her that she can make the decision, and stick with what she says. Maybe she'll be ok with you showing your friend around, as long as you are home by midnight

[Leikela]

I totally agree with Monday. Your wife's feelings should come first. So the Pen Pal isn't comfortable hanging out with your wife? Then tough s**t because your wife is more important.

 

Your relationship with this Russian woman is threatening whether you choose to face that or not right now. You're getting something from her that you DON'T get from your wife. Spending alone time with this woman is a recipe for disaster. This is how cheating happens whether you intend to or not.

 

When you're married, you should be getting all the components for a happy relationship from her and only her. Seeking it from a female friend is never a good idea. Sure, we can all click with other people of the opposite sex but choosing to take it to a deeper level is your choice. I've met many other guys that I could have gotten closer with on a friendship level, but I purposely distance myself from that because not only do I get everything I need from my boyfriend, but it's asking for trouble.

 

I wouldn't meet this Russian lady at all without your wife by your side. Who knows what the Russian lady's intentions are too. You have to take that into consideration. She knows about some issues between you and your wife and maybe views this as a chance to interfere or get you to cheat. You never know...

 

Overall, you are playing with fire.

[Tracy]

No question, you should tell your wife. And, red flag to penpal not being comfortable with wifey around.

 

Personally, I think the fact that your penpal knows more about you than your wife is a red flag also......if you've been sharing thoughts, feelings, emotions with your PP while you've been married......there are no excuses.

But my wife isn't all that lovey, feely, emotional type and could care less what my feelings are.

STILL no excuse.

[Moose]

Ok, sure, I'll answer as well as I can:

 

Ok Moose, I'm not trying to bust on you, I'm just trying to get some feedback. You said something about you hoped this thread would drop off the boards before your wife sees it. You may have been kidding but what if she did indeed read your original post? I guess what you're saying is that she wouldn't be learning anything about herself that she didn't already know. If I were your wife and even considering how non-jealous I am, I would be upset by it. She is aware of how she is, isn't she?

 

If she did read my original post, and after being married to her for so long I can almost predict what she'd say:

"Not this, I don't think about your feelings crap again, we've been through this already". So yes, she is aware how she is. Will she change? Like I said earlier, for a time she does, then it reverts back to the way it was.

 

Again Moose, I'm not busting on you but I want to ask this ... When spouses cheat, at what point are they actually cheating? When they have sex maybe?Why do spouses cheat? Isn't it to fulfill something that's missing in their marriage? Is it the sex that's missing? Actually, I don't think so. I think what's missing is the adoration, the sympathetic ear, the understanding. The sex is just the end product after those other things have happened. I suppose my point is, if a man is going to another woman to fulfill certain attributes that are missing in his marriage, even if sex is not one of those attributes, isn't that like cheating in your book?

 

Interesting concept. And I think you're right. We do think differently though. Sex to me would be more of a form of cheating rather than her sharing her feelings with someone else of the opposite sex. But I suppose sharing my feelings with someone other than my wife could be a form of infidelity....I don't know.

[Craig]

Moose, how about asking your wife what she thinks you should/could do when Elena comes? You could explain that Elena would like to see America and so on. Your wife might come up with some ideas similar to your own.

 

You are married and I don't see a problem bringing your wife along with you and Elena. If Elena has a problem with that then maybe she has different motives than you.

 

[color=red]BIG RED FLAG [/color]regarding the emotional "connection" between you and Elena. Maybe, the last thing you need is a couple of days away from the responsibilities of home spent in carefree, happy, sight seeing with Elena. Just think . . . a walk in the park, a trip to the museum, lunch in an open air restaurant . . . feeding the pigeons in the park . . . happy people everywhere around the two of you. And all the while you and Elena are so connected emotionally . . .

 

You get my point, just be careful.

 

P.S. Regarding sharing your feelings with someone other than your wife possibly being a form of infidelity. Have a look at the posts on LS regarding "Emotional Affairs" for more perspective on this issue. TTYL.

[tiki]

Moosey, Moosey, Moosey...

 

I say it all too often, but you're playing with [color=red]fire[/color]. Deep down, you know it's not right.

[Moose]

Tiki, Yep I know. I've already decided that my wife is going to have to tag along.....not because I can't be trusted, but just because it isn't right for a married man to be alone with another woman who knows my feelings and the problems my wife and I have.

[Stone]

I don't think there is a problem with an "emotional connection" you can have connections with peers, co-workers, faimly and friends. so Why would it be diffrent if it was a Man rather than a woman. good friends have no "sexual criteria"

 

Moose if I were you I would let her stay with you and get to know your wife. Let them hang out go shopping, the salon or whatever they like to do. So your wife can judge her without "prejellously" let your wife know how important your friendhip with her is and I am sure she will understand. Maby you should try to hook her up with a mutual friend of you and your wife's while she's here. You said they would probably be great friends so let them be. Ask for your wifes input on who else to introduce her to so they can help show her around a give her a good time here.

[tiki]

Originally posted by Moose

Tiki, Yep I know. I've already decided that my wife is going to have to tag along.....not because I can't be trusted, but just because it isn't right for a married man to be alone with another woman who knows my feelings and the problems my wife and I have.

 

Such an intelligent gentleman. Good luck breaking the info to the wife.

 

Do the right thing!

[quankanne]

¡ayayiiiiiiii, Moose! this sounds like a potentially explosive situation and you really oughta establish some base rules.

 

If you've been open about your friendships (male or female) with your wife, and she's been cool with them so far, then share with her the fact that your e-pal is planning to visit the states. Take your direction from her response -- if she's still okay with it, be sure to include her REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR FRIEND TELLS YOU ABOUT WANTING TO SPEND TIME ALONE WITH YOU because your wife (i.e. your very first best friend by fact of marriage) comes first. She may be okay with the idea of hanging out with y'all, or she may just say for you to have fun showing her the sights. If she's dead-set against it, respect her feelings and take a rain-check. But, you've got to talk this out with your wife before you make any solid decisions about being Elena's tour guide.

 

Personally, I think it's more troubling when you say your e-pal doesn't want your wife around for whatever reasons, because you don't know how Elena feels about your friendship with her, whether she sees y'all as just pals, or has it in her head that it's potentially more. She said she'd be uncomfortable with your wife there because she doesn't know her? Well, this is the perfect time to introduce the two!

 

I've got a couple of guy roommates from college who I visit from time to time, and my husband seems to be okay with it because he knows they are pretty much my "family." But it's only been because I've made very sure that he knows I love them in a much different way that I do him, and no way in hell would I do anything with either of them to compromise my marriage, or my relationship with them, they're that special to me.

 

Be open with your wife, be sure to make her feel part of the friendship; likewise, make sure Elena knows that while you might have shared some not-so-nice thoughts about your wife (guilty! my guys hear all about DH when he does some über-redneck thing), she's still very much someone who needs to be part of y'alls relationship because she's also a friend you love.

[Tracy]

I don't think there is a problem with an "emotional connection" you can have connections with peers, co-workers, faimly and friends. so Why would it be diffrent if it was a Man rather than a woman. good friends have no "sexual criteria"

 

I disagree. I think it is ok to have friends of opposite sex, but you have to keep it in perspective. Regardless of the state of your marriage. In the case of Moose, I do think that "sexual criteria" is an issue, as he shares thoughts, feelings, emotions with this woman that he doesn't even share with his wife. This would affect bond of even a rock-solid marriage. I also think emotional chit-chat online is dangerous. It opens the door for fantasy and allows you to justify or detach from intimacy you are sharing because other person isn't really there.....either way, whether sharing person-to-person or online....those are things you are taking away from your spouse. There is no way to measure the impact it has, but it does.

 

My H had female friends that he treasured since he was very young. They remained good friends throughout our marriage. However, their relationship changed when he and I were married. Some of the needs his friend met before now belonged to me. I don't think you should cross those boundaries with opposite sex (while married) under any circumstances.

[tokyo]

Moose,

 

do you think Elena is in love with you? Her behavior indicates it a bit. She has a strong emotional bond to you otherwise she wouldn´t feel such a strong dislike for your wife.

 

I think I´m a very emotional person and I wouldn´t be very happy with a husband who is too cold. I would certainly fall for someone who understood my feelings. I don´t think you would cheat on your wife physically, but you probably do it emotionally. She doesn´t want your feelings, so you give them to someone else who obviously appreciates them more. I don´t know if this hurts your wife or not, if she doesn´t care, go ahead and meet Elena alone, but who knows where it will lead. You might be sending her wrong signals, because whether she likes your wife or not, whether she thinks your wife treats you badly or not.

 

One of my friends said that he believes friendship between man and woman are not possible - the Harry and Sally phenomenon. To a certain degree I have to agree with him. The moment you have strong emotions for someone of the other gender things are not that innocent anymore. If your pen-pal is not extremely ugly, you might have a little crush on her. That´s certainly not the end of the world, but you should be aware of it.

 

Your post caught my eye, because I have a pen-pal (more like an email-friend) for 4,5 years whom I´d like to meet, too, one day. I can´t say we are exchanging much emotional stuff, I might, but he never really talks about his feelings, I don´t even know right now if he has a girlfriend or not, he never asks me about this either, so I won´t start talking with him about these things, he might feel uncomfortable to reveal that much about him and I´m fine with the way things are. If I had a boyfriend and my pen-pal came to visit me I´d love them to meet each other, because I care for both of them. I wouldn´t mind meeting him alone, because I know there´s not such a strong emotional attachment to him, he´s my friend, but not my best friend who understands all my needs, but I´m not sure if I really wanted to spend a couple of day with him alone, that seems to be a little bit inappropiate for me.

 

Your best option is to tell your wife that your PP is coming to America, and you'd like to spend time with her. Tell her that she is your friend, and nothing more. Tell her that you'd stay at your mom's, and your PP would stay at a Hotel.

 

If she's uncomfortable with this in the LEAST, you'll call the whole thing off. Tell your wife that you want to hang out with your PP, but it's up to her, and if she's comfortable with it.

Sounds like good advice. As I said above, be prepared that she feels more for you than you might expect.

[Moose]

In the case of Moose, I do think that "sexual criteria" is an issue, as he shares thoughts, feelings, emotions with this woman that he doesn't even share with his wife.

 

I just wanted to correct you.....I do share all my thoughts and feelings with my wife. The thing is that she quickly discards them. She doesn't seem to understand that I need someone who can listen and to help me through these feelings. She just turns her mute button on whenever I try to talk to her. Just like a teenager whenever he/she is getting a lecture.