My Russian Penpal......

[Tracy]

You know your situation better than anyone...certainly more than a few lines in this thread could describe.

 

Personally, I think it only causes more problems, maybe even more fuel for your wife's fire to be distant, to turn to someone else for an emotional connection. You should do whatever it takes to make that connection with your wife, and if you can't--get out of your relationship to find it with someone else or just don't have a connection with anyone. Emotional intimacy is a need in marriage, just as sex is a need. I don't mean to blow it out of proportion. But, the slightest "soul-bearing" with member of the opposite sex can be too easily distorted into something else. Especially for women.

 

 

She probably knows a lot more about me than even my wife.

I'm sure you meant that you share exactly the same thoughts and feelings with both women, but PP seems to pay more attention, where your wife disregards this info. It just sounded like you share more stuff with your PP than your wife.

[Moose]

I'm sure you meant that you share exactly the same thoughts and feelings with both women, but PP seems to pay more attention, where your wife disregards this info. It just sounded like you share more stuff with your PP than your wife.

 

That is absolutley correct. She has learned a lot more about me by paying attention. My wife just lets my personal feelings bounce right off of her.

[Tracy]

That's sad. My H and I are trying to reconcile after being divorced. I find myself doing the same thing to him....not really paying attention. For us, it is a sign, result of other issues.

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm ragging on you I like reading your stuff, you sound like a very thoughtful man and husband. I think you've already answered your original question....you decided to talk to your wife about PP visiting. I just believe personally that emotionally communicating with someone of the opposite sex while you're married isn't good. I know I would be hurt if my H was talking to someone else. Perhaps it's because we are attempting reconciliation. But, I would have been upset when we were in marriage bliss as well

[Moose]

kooky,

 

I did read your post. And yes, I think she may have feeling for me. But I never thought of it as love. I mean, yeah I think she loves me, but as a friend, not a lover if you know what I mean. And I do wish that Elena liked my wife more. But she told me the reason she would feel uncomfortable around her is because she can't understand why my wife treats me the way she does.

 

I guess I just really need to set my wife down yet again and tell her my feelings even though she's likely to ignore them again. It's a tough battle, let me tell you.

[VivianLee]

Originally posted by Moose

kooky,

 

I did read your post. And yes, I think she may have feeling for me. But I never thought of it as love. I mean, yeah I think she loves me, but as a friend, not a lover if you know what I mean. And I do wish that Elena liked my wife more. But she told me the reason she would feel uncomfortable around her is because she can't understand why my wife treats me the way she does.

 

I guess I just really need to set my wife down yet again and tell her my feelings even though she's likely to ignore them again. It's a tough battle, let me tell you.

 

Moose, everything you've said about her and your relationship sounds so much how an EA starts. No matter what your intentions are, you have overstepped bounds (now this is coming from someone that has been there) and you really are treading on even dangerous ground with this chick coming into your neck of the woods...

 

You said she can't understand why your wife treats you the way she does....you admitted on another thread that you have abused alcohol throughout your marriage and that both your wife and children are still getting used to you sober. You admitted while drinking you did some bad things that really hurt your family.

 

Have you thought perhaps this Russian chick may not have a great attitude towards you either, if she'd had to give birth and raise 5 children and live with an alcoholic??

 

Your wife does need to forgive, it may take time. She does need to see to your needs and you need to understand where her disrespect may be coming from..

 

The Russian chick is just grass that's greener, anyone can listen and be understanding 1 bizzillion miles away but let them trying it for 20yrs!!

 

You know good and well you'd poop gold bricks if your wife was in this situation!!

 

Try and be fair to your wife and if you do see this lady, take your wife with you and let that lady understand that the wife comes first....then I'd reset the friendship you have with this lady where it isn't so verbally intimate!! (that's what we are for! )

[wideawake]

Originally posted by Moose

But she told me the reason she would feel uncomfortable around her is because she can't understand why my wife treats me the way she does.

 

 

Dude....

 

You're building your own bomb my brother.

 

You've got a Russian pen-pal (which, by-the-way, pictures attached in threads would really be helpful right about now...hint...)

 

ok..anyway....you've got this soul-mate emo Russian chick that already resents your wife because of how you've been dragging her ass in the mud (I'm guessing that it hasn't always been the rosy prose of love when you're speaking of the Mrs. Moose...), coming to visit you and your wife in your home....

 

Dude...what are you going to do when the Russian chick gets pissed off about some comment your wife makes to you at breakfast and calls her out about not treating you right and how crappy a wife she is?

 

Dude...your wife is going to stab this bitch through the heart and than she's coming after you!

 

Moose. Tell the Russian chick to stay home, or at least not visit bro, I just don't think it's smart, nor even remotely cool toward your Mrs.

 

Peace, and good luck you crazy mofo...

[Anais]

Moose,

 

If you care about your wife don’t meet this woman, please!

Is she beautiful and young? Does she looks better than your wife? Who pays for her trip?

[moimeme]

I know it's already been said, Moose, but let's recap:

 

She probably knows a lot more about me than even my wife.

 

You have since backpedalled on this one but I have a feeling you were truthful first time 'round.

 

I know that sounds bad on my part. But my wife isn't all that lovey, feely, emotional type and could care less what my feelings are. I can share all of my feelings with Elena and she listens to me! She sends me words of affirmation and such care. She gives me that emotional support that my wife doesn't.

 

This is emotional intimacy. This is the reason we have mates. This is the stuff of which love is made. This, Moose, is an emotional affair. No if's, and's, or but's. Your wife keeps house and provides a warm body at night but you are emotionally attached to this person. You count on this person for your emotional well-being.

 

a friend that has been a huge support for me through the years

 

Again, this is the role of the spouse or a family member or a guy pal, not a woman other than your spouse.

 

Now maybe your wife, not being 'touchy feely' (though I suspect that the earlier speculation that she's trying to heal from living with an alcoholic is closer to the truth) wouldn't give a hoot about your emotional connection with Elena, but I'd not bet on it. Maybe your wife is one of those women who think men are supposed to be 'macho' and so she is uncomfortable knowing about your feelings. Or maybe she's ticked that you didn't care much for her feelings when alcohol was your best pal. Whatever the cause, the trouble in your marriage needs to be fixed within your marriage.

 

The 'expert' on affairs used to say that an affair makes marriage more bearable - just as your emotional affair is making your marriage more bearable.

 

Don't try to claim that it's not an affair because no sex is involved because it won't wash.

 

Sex to me would be more of a form of cheating rather than her sharing her feelings with someone else of the opposite sex.

 

Interestingly, men often think that way.

 

But I suppose sharing my feelings with someone other than my wife could be a form of infidelity....I don't know.

 

And women think that way.

[binturong]

No other woman should know that much about the problems you are having in your marriage. That penpal relationship has crossed a line about 100 miles ago. Do you really want to risk your marriage for that? Because that's what you're doing.

[tokyo]

Ok, Moose, after reading the other posts who said you had problems with alcohol, I tend to agree that your wife indeed is still struggling with that and therefore might be pushing you away. If you give your emotions to someone else you will hurt her. She decided to stay with you, so I don´t think that´was an easy decision, but she´s tired by now to pay too much attention to your feelings all the time and maybe needs someone who listens to her feelings. Sometimes people expect to be understood and not have to beg for things that should be natural.

 

I stick to what I said before, Elena is interested in you, not as a friend. The fact that she says she feels uncomfortable meeting your wife shows me she is seeing you as someone who is victimized by his wife and obviously feels the need to protect you, her feelings for you are too strong. I would feel sorry for a friend if he had a bad partner, but I wouldn´t feel uncomfortable to be around his partner. I would say, you either get out of this relationship and if not then obviously your partner is not that bad. I think her saying she might feel uncomfortable should be translated she might get jealous, because you still stay with your wife who doesn´t love you. This is the message that probably most women would see, a wife who doesn´t care for a men´s feeling doesn´t love him.

 

Also, this is a Russian woman, I´m not sure if you are aware of the differences between American women and Russian women. She might be an experienced traveller and know your culture well, or she is a traditional Russian woman who has a different view on marriages.

[Adunaphel]

You and Elena have a great emotional connection.

You shared with her very personal information about your marriage...as other posters said, it is not stuff other women should know.

She acts like she is interested in more than a friendship.

She told you she'd be unconfortable if your wife was around..... huge red flag.

I believe that the first thing a visiting pen-pal (who is just interested in friendship!) would do is asking if your SO is okay with it. And asking to be introduced to your SO.

Meeting her in person would be totally wrong even if your wife was with the two of you all the time...even if your wife was okay with it.

Please be really careful.

[Papillon]

Moose, wat I think, after readin everything you've written, is that you need some perestroika in you marriage, and some glasnost with your wife instead of with foreign women.

[Moose]

Well, I asked my wife about it. She said she would love to meet Elena. She didn't say she was upset at all about her coming out, to begin with. I then told her that Elena said she'd be a little uncomfortable around her. Of course my wife asked why. At first I just said that she doesn't know her at all like she knows me. The wife said that that would be ok, that she was sure she could warm up to her quick enough. Then I told her that Elena and I talk about everything. Carole asked, "Everything", and I said, "pretty much". Well, Carole's tone did change as you might of guessed......but, it wasn't at all like I expected!!! She goes, "My Mom and I talk about everything too, it's no big deal". Well, then I changed tone. I'm thinking, GREAT!!! my Mother-in-law knows every little detail and every little piece of dirt Carole can come with!!

 

My Mother-in-law has went through very much the same thing I went through growing up. So really it was ok with me. BUT!! The light bulb went off in my head, ( And it has to do with this forum ), Carole and I are talking to the wrong people about our feelings!! About our thoughts, about our plans!! Then I told her some of your thoughts, (everyone who posted). That by essence, with Elena paying more attention to my feelings and me willing to share them with her that it was a form of infidelity. She started to crack up. She said she didn't feel that way at all. She said that she would've been more worried if I was sharing all these feelings and thoughts with our neighbor Ken. But, to be totally fair she wants to see the emails I've sent to Elena and the ones that Elena responded.

 

Well, I came up with a better idea!!!! And I want you guys to tell me your opinion, if this was a good idea or not. I left myself room to back off so here it goes:

 

I'm going to send her every letter, from my first one to my last one every day. I'm not going to alter them at all and Carole is going to respond, as Elena. THEN, on the weekend, probably Saturdays, we are going to compare them to the way Elena actually responded and see how close they come to eachother. This gives Carole a way to get to know Elena, and for Carole and I to back up a bit and give her a chance, and me a chance to get to know each other more.

 

Carole even said that doing it this way, you guys couldn't consider it emotional infidelity because she would know every thought that was communicated. Anyway. I think that since she's willing to do this, that she'll have to really concentrate this time and hopefully she won't revert back to the, "same ole, same ole", anytime soon.

 

Well, what do you guys think about doing this?

[Papillon]

I think it's dangerous. It's obvious that the two of you have been living past each other for a long time now, and you probably have some set ideas about the other which are probably way off. Being the last to find out about some of these things and thoughts, by reading a personal letter addressed to someone else, while she should have been the FIRST to know, will come off as a shock, and she will resent you for it.....

 

my $0.02....

[Matilda]

I think I like that plan. I was going to suggest that you have your wife read this thread. If my husband felt the way you do, I would want to know, so we could try to work out the problem between ourselves. Let us know how it all turns out. I think you will be surprised at your wife's responses.

[tiki]

Sorry Moose, I don't much like your idea either.

 

Your wife shouldn't have to be compared to ANYONE. You made the solemn vow to HER. Your utmost obligation should be to her. Even if that means sacrificing your friendship/relationship with Elena.

 

If your wife cannot provide you adequate emotinal necessities, that's a situation you must take up with her. You don't seek otherwise from another woman.

 

That's no other woman's business. Bottom freakin' line.

[Moose]

tiki,

 

I didn't think of it as comparing Carole to Elena, or Elena to Carole at all. I just thought of it as an avenue in which she and I could use to better evaluate how she can better repond to my thoughts and feelings. AND, will give her an opportunity for her to open up to me instead of her Mom.

 

If your wife cannot provide you adequate emotinal necessities, that's a situation you must take up with her. You don't seek otherwise from another woman.

 

How do you suggest I do that? Seems like whenever that's adressed, she changes for a bit then it's back to the same thing. And not to sound closed minded, but counceling won't do it either. Been there and done that.

[tiki]

You just make it work Moose. If it doesn't work well enough for your satisfaction, then that's *your* call. Wasn't she like this when you married her? Just because she won't listen to you as you'd like, you run to another woman to bear your soul to? What happens if she's not satisfying you sexually, you run to another woman then too? Of course you don't Moose, you live with what ya got....and thank God ya got it.

 

I've read your other threads. And I agree with most of what you say. I liked the commitment that you and your wife share with one another. Then I read that you've really connected emotionally on a high leven with this Elena woman. And that just sucks. A connection is a connection.

 

Your wife wanted extra-marrital perks and you said 'no'. But you say 'yes' to yourself and your own situation? What do you think you're doing? Isn't what you're doing considered an extra-marrital perk? I just don't understand why YOU can do this. You know you wouldn't want her doing this to you.

 

I stand in agreement with the poster that states to "foresake all others". Others = Elena! Haven't you already foresaken her enough? Put your wife first and foremost. And I hope that she will do the same for you. That's what marriage is about, right? And if you guys can't do that, get out. But Moose, you made the promise to HER. Keep it! Just as you've taught US to do!

[Fayebelle]

At the end of the day- Carole is the one you go home with. If you want to see Elena- do whatever Carole feels is important to make this meeting OK by the standards of YOUR marriage. If Elena is uncomfortable- she'll just have to get over it... or not visit at all. Her choice when you put it in those terms will give you an idea of what she had in mind for this meeting.

 

As far as sharing your correspondence w/Carole- it's not a bad idea but why don't you and Carole BOTH make a list of things you want to address w/one another? The truth is if there are areas you feel a bit slighted in from Carole - than she prob has a few topics she needs more support on from you.

 

I'm sorry- I'm not feeling well today so that's not worded how I'd like but I hope you get the idea.

[Moose]

What can I say, you're right Tiki. Hey, at least I'm workin' on it. And it's not like I was hiding anything at all. I'm trying to make that connection with my wife, I'm not going behind her back at all. As far as me saying no to what my wife wants to do, that's a different story, and my wife would agree. What my wife was, "curious", about doing is involving another woman in our bed. To me that is just un thinkable for a healthy relationship. Sharing my thoughts and feelings, whether it be with Elena, or my neighbor, or my Mom, or my Step Dad or my Brother seems a lot less harmful.

 

I don't know if I'd confess that I'm connected at a high level with Elena either. We're just friends. She has her man and I have my woman. She just knows things about me, and I about her. We share our thoughts and feelings and none of them involve thoughts or feelings towards one another. They are feelings towards our signifigant others. She just listens is all, which is something my wife doesn't do when her and I talk.

 

There have been times where I though Elena was trying to get to close and I held her off. One of the posters asked if I thought Elena was in love with me. I couldn't say for sure. But if I knew she was, I would adress that as a married, very married man.

[Tracy]

I have to agree with Pap and Tiki....your plan sounds dangerous. It may sound good in theory and it sounds like you are desperately looking for something different so things don't go back to the same ol same ol. But, I think that one could backfire on you. It's likely things won't be the same ol same ol afterwards, but she could likely take a few steps back. Everything you two do together should be a well-thought, planned step forward right now.

 

The light bulb went off in my head, ( And it has to do with this forum ), Carole and I are talking to the wrong people about our feelings!! About our thoughts, about our plans!!

 

I thought you were really onto something when I read this statement. But, then you went into your big idea. It's easy for us to sound critical as we read this stuff online. You're the one in the middle of it, and getting frustrated because you keep going to her and nothing changes. So, I can see why you are eager to try something different. However, try to take a step back and get a different perspective on things....

 

Maybe take your quote above and search for a different solution. From your conversation with your wife, it sounds like she is more open minded and receiving than you think right now. Is there any other way besides her responding to Elana's emails....that you two can have a heart-to-heart about all of this. I hope she is being completely honest with you and not just saying it doesn't bother her. Tell her you REALLY want to know how she feels. It sounds like a good opportunity for the two of you to "connect emotionally". But, I don't think evaluating her responsiveness to you through another woman's emails will work out like you hope.

[moimeme]

It actually might be an interesting exercise. Do it with the guidance of a counsellor, though, or it could turn out to be a minefield.

[Matilda]

I agree with you Moose. I think the issue of your emotional needs not being met needs to addressed. I'm sure Carole has needs that are not being met too, since she is doing a lot more talking to her Mom than you. You two need to talk about this one way or another. I can see, however, like Moi said, that reading and responding to the letters might be a mine field. However, it is something you have both agreed to. I am right in saying that you did not coerce Carole into doing it?

 

At the end of the letter exercise, Moose is not going to be making a decision about who is the better responder. This is simply a chance for he and his wife to improve their marriage. He already knows that Carole is the one he wants to be with, that is not an issue. I do think there could be potential hurt feelings. But, after being married for years, both partners tend to get complacent, and don't really try as hard as they should. This is an opportunity to really get to the bottom of this problem.

[Tracy]

Well, if it works....let me know!! I'm desparate for a breakthrough also

 

Maybe it will be a great success and Moose can write his own book, make millions and we will be the first to witness it!!!!

[binturong]

The letter idea is stupid. He WILL BE comparing his wife to Elena. I could see if he wants to send his wife the emails, then see how she responds, then they can go over her responses together. He can tell her what it is she's saying that is making him feel slighted or how she could have responded better. I just have a feeling that it'll turn out to be "Carol wrote this, but what Elena wrote is so much better. See, Carol? You need to be more like Elena."

 

Moose, all I can tell you is how I would feel if my fiance had been telling another woman everything about our relationship. I would feel like it was an emotional affair. As other posters have said, just because you're not getting what you need from your wife, it doesn't make it okay to go outside your marriage to look for it. I'll say it again...it's not right for someone outside the marriage to know more about how you feel in it than the other person who's in the marriage with you. You said that if you thought Elena was interested in you as more than friends, you'd respond as a very married man. Well, you're really not acting like one right now. All JMHO, of course.