Is the world trying to screw me over?!

[somedude81]

I edited my previous post a little bit to add some details.

 

"I don't know what I could have done that was different."

 

and

 

"BTW, I don't have a clue what tension even is. I don't think I've ever had a sexual tension moment with a girl."

 

I'm going to get some food, I'm starving and just didn't really feel like eating lunch for some reason.

[ThaWholigan]

I edited my previous post a little bit to add some details.

 

"I don't know what I could have done that was different."

 

and

 

"BTW, I don't have a clue what tension even is. I don't think I've ever had a sexual tension moment with a girl."

 

I'm going to get some food, I'm starving and just didn't really feel like eating lunch for some reason.

Tension is the opposite of comfort. In a sexually charged conversation, there should be at least a hint of tension - hence teasing and stuff like that. It's fun and frustrating at the same time. It leads to intrigue. It's not just a neutral interaction.

 

When you were at school, did you play with girls? Did you tease them and call them names and tell them they had cooties? (dat american sh*t . In England, it was "lurgies"). Did you pull their hair occasionally and play fight? Did they reciprocate and do the same to you?

 

Well, we haven't changed much from school .

[somedude81]

Tension is the opposite of comfort. In a sexually charged conversation, there should be at least a hint of tension - hence teasing and stuff like that. It's fun and frustrating at the same time. It leads to intrigue. It's not just a neutral interaction.

No, I've never experienced anything close to that. I don't think I've ever even had a sexually charged conversation.

 

I tease and play with girls now but it's just innocent fun.

When you were at school, did you play with girls? Did you tease them and call them names and tell them they had cooties? (dat american sh*t . In England, it was "lurgies"). Did you pull their hair occasionally and play fight? Did they reciprocate and do the same to you?

No, not at all.

 

Up until I was 18 I barely interacted with girls at all. I just stuck to my guy friends. Every once in a while I'd get a crush on a girl and try to talk to her but usually I was too shy and awkward.

 

I never did any of the teasing or play-fighting or anything like that. I really didn't get comfortable being around girls till after I graduated high school.

[ThaWholigan]

No, I've never experienced anything close to that. I don't think I've ever even had a sexually charged conversation.

 

I tease and play with girls now but it's just innocent fun.

 

Well the time has come to not be so innocent .

 

I would experiment with this a little and I would probably try to get some help if I were you - so that you can learn how to do something like this. How to charge a conversation up a little. It's difficult to give examples but lets say you make several spaced out double entendres or you use words that could be construed in a sexual way. Words like hot or hard and sh*t like that.

 

It would probably require you to present yourself differently though - I think you need to start believing in yourself as a sexual being. You may need some help in this area too. This is where people start talking about sh*t like "confidence" and stuff. Accepting and conveying that you are a sexual man who likes women.

 

No, not at all.

 

Up until I was 18 I barely interacted with girls at all. I just stuck to my guy friends. Every once in a while I'd get a crush on a girl and try to talk to her but usually I was too shy and awkward.

 

I never did any of the teasing or play-fighting or anything like that. I really didn't get comfortable being around girls till after I graduated high school.

 

Neither did I . Interacting with girls only became regular when I started college. I was never any good at teasing or even play-fighting anyway . But you recognize the dynamic if you're observant enough and look closely. All the boys who did well with girls, were the same boys who teased the girls and play-fought with them.

[somedude81]

You waited till today.

So she would have said yes if I asked her out last week, last month, the day I met her?

 

Is class the only way you ever meet girls these days?

Pretty much, and every semester I meet 4-5 girls that I want to ask out and ask out 2-3 of them. I've also met girls on campus clubs and coed sports teams. I've asked out a few of them over the years too. I'm not working now, but I usually ask out 3 girls from my job whenever I'm working. One of the best things about retail is that there are always college age girls around.

 

Why didn't you talk to her outside of class? When you see her outside of class, what do you do? How do you engage them whenever you do talk to them?

How am I supposed to see her outside of class?

 

When class ends, she walks with her friends to the next class. I'd like to see her outside of class, which is why I asked for her number.

 

If neither the girl or I have a class next and the class ends between 11 and 1, I'll bring up having lunch with the girls I'm interested and I've done that with several girls from my school. I've also hung out with girls I wasn't interested in but it's been a while since I did that.

 

Still, the hard part is actually getting a girl to be willing to see me outside of class. If we both don't have a break after the class we're in, I'm not sure how to see her outside of class.

 

I'm sure you're not boring to talk to, but that isn't really a particularly mean feat, especially in college (trust me, I know). I wonder how far you do push the boundary - that would be an interesting view.

I probably don't push things that far unless the girl brings up the "dirty" things first, then I'm fine. I'm never the one to initiate.

I want you to go back through my links and download a program called "Alpha Man Conversation and Persuasion" and I actually want you to f*cking listen to it - don't pay me lip service . If you want to know how to bridge your conversations into something that can make women want to talk to you more and be interested in you, then get it. You need to get the resources and listen more instead of stumbling about not knowing what you're doing.

Let me go through my PM's. I think I still have that link.

 

Again, after how long? You have to be brave earlier. That's good that you weren't "expecting a reward", but that doesn't mean you should "expect failure" either. It doesn't have to be an either or situation. Again, that only arises because you TAKE THIS STUFF TOO SERIOUSLY!.

With a zero percent win ratio, it's impossible to not to expect to lose. I'd have to be mentally ill to believe I actually have a chance with a halfway decent girl. As I said before, I'm always being reminded that girls don't like me. My self-esteem is systematically being broken down and I don't know how to stop it other than just not take any chances. But I want a girl too badly to give up, even though it might ultimately kill me.

 

 

Yes it is hard.

. Everybody gets rejected. Yes women do too, and so do even the "hot" guys. Show me a "hot" guy, and I'll show you a girl who rejected him.

There is a difference between hard and soul-crushingly difficult.

 

He brought weight lifting and how it's hard to get stronger. That's fine. But dealing with women is like I went to the gym, worked out for an hour twice a week, doing the proper exercises (bench, squat, dead-lift etc) and for some reason never get stronger. It's really hard to stay motivated when results don't come.

 

I'd have a much easier time with this if I've actually experienced some success with women. But it's just failure after failure

 

It's possible if you stop being a slave to your emotions. Learn how to have greater control over your emotional response and how it affects you. This is stuff they should be showing you in therapy. You also need to find SOMETHING ELSE to do besides agonizing over girls, something else to invest emotional energy into.

Therapy was about a lot of mind tricks to try and change how I think and process things. But it was basically ignoring reality.

 

No matter what I do to occupy my time or invest emotional energy, I'm always going to want to be in a relationship. What I want is completely natural and I'm always being bombarded by the media about how important romances are. I will always feel that I'm missing out on life.

 

 

You've been told over and over by approximately 25 women out of probably millions in your state alone. Step out of the small box that is your current reality and look out into the world.

I don't need to be rejected my millions of women to understand that something is wrong with me. I don't even need to be rejected by 100 women. I've asked out a wide variety of women and I believe that it is a significant sample size. The only thing I haven't done is try to date non-American women. Perhaps I should leave the country to a place where I might have a chance.

 

You take rejection personally mainly because you believe yourself that you aren't good enough. You project that onto women and they oblige to tell you subconsciously that you aren't good enough. That's not your fault really - you just don't know any better it seems. Much like I didn't. EDIT: Also, you need to have things to do outside of college where you might actually meet some more girls.

I really don't think I do any projecting beliefs on to women, and they reject me because of that. That's a little too new age/psychic for me.

 

I only ask out girls that I feel I have some sort of connection with and might actually have a chance. They are the ones I have the most fun talking to and I'm not negative at all because I'm genuinely having fun being around them. Yeah I get a bit nervous when I'm expressing my interest, but I still am sure I'm not projecting any "I'm not good enough for you" signals.

 

And also, this will sound mean, but any truly sane person would get over being rejected and find something more important to be worried about. The only reason your entire life is nothing but being turned down by girls you're interested in is because outside of going to college and going home - what else do you do?

No, any sane person will be depressed after continually being rejected, this applies to both men and women.

 

Also few things are more important in life than love, having a companion and raising a family. If anything, that is the reason for life and why we are actually on this planet.

 

What is your life? And what do you want your life to be?

 

I'm gonna ask you again, and this is really important because you have to answer this honestly and please elaborate:

 

What the f*ck do you actually want in life besides a GF?

I want to enjoy life. I want to have a good career where I have money and I can buy the toys I want and see the world. I want to have friends to spend time with.

 

Though without a woman, I'd still feel hallow. I'm scared of being 50 years old, having the above yet still being alone. That would tell me that I failed.

 

Well the time has come to not be so innocent .

 

I would experiment with this a little and I would probably try to get some help if I were you - so that you can learn how to do something like this. How to charge a conversation up a little. It's difficult to give examples but lets say you make several spaced out double entendres or you use words that could be construed in a sexual way. Words like hot or hard and sh*t like that.

Every now and then I try to use some double entendres but they usually fall flat. Maybe I might get a laugh out of a girl but that's as far as it goes.

It would probably require you to present yourself differently though - I think you need to start believing in yourself as a sexual being. You may need some help in this area too. This is where people start talking about sh*t like "confidence" and stuff. Accepting and conveying that you are a sexual man who likes women.

Presenting myself as a sexual being, who never has sex. That's like a mouse trying to present itself as a hawk.

 

While I'm not a virgin, I might as well be one deep-down. I also feel that my sexual side has been punished and it's been locked away. It's basically been broken, kind of how like one would break the spirit of a prisoner. Whenever I try to express my sexual side to a girl the answer is always to keep it in my pants. For once in my life I'd like to know what it's actually like to let myself go with a girl and be sexual. All of the sex I've had has been fake and constrained. No passion or lust, anything like that.

Neither did I . Interacting with girls only became regular when I started college. I was never any good at teasing or even play-fighting anyway . But you recognize the dynamic if you're observant enough and look closely. All the boys who did well with girls, were the same boys who teased the girls and play-fought with them.

Hah, not the answer I was expecting from you. Yeah all the guys who did that were the ones who were more comfortable with girls, or simply just didn't give a damn.

[Lonely Ronin]

So she would have said yes if I asked her out last week, last month, the day I met her?

 

Most likely no, but you wouldn't have wasted a bunch of time.

 

Pretty much, and every semester I meet 4-5 girls that I want to ask out and ask out 2-3 of them. I've also met girls on campus clubs and coed sports teams. I've asked out a few of them over the years too. I'm not working now, but I usually ask out 3 girls from my job whenever I'm working. One of the best things about retail is that there are always college age girls around.

Ok, this is an issue. You are only interacting with women in places where they pretty much have to be nice to you.

 

 

He brought weight lifting and how it's hard to get stronger. That's fine. But dealing with women is like I went to the gym, worked out for an hour twice a week, doing the proper exercises (bench, squat, dead-lift etc) and for some reason never get stronger. It's really hard to stay motivated when results don't come.

Dating can be exactly like weight lifting in the sense, that on the surface it can seem like you are doing everything you are supposed to but in reality you are doing it all wrong. For example when I go to the gym, i see people who do to few reps, wait to long between sets, use bad form, or a combination of the 3.

 

 

 

I only ask out girls that I feel I have some sort of connection with and might actually have a chance. They are the ones I have the most fun talking to and I'm not negative at all because I'm genuinely having fun being around them.

Hof do you sense they feel? do you get the sense that they are attracted to you? do they express interest in what you do outside of class? are you always the ones initiating conversations?

 

 

 

 

Every now and then I try to use some double entendres but they usually fall flat. Maybe I might get a laugh out of a girl but that's as far as it goes.

You need to keep stuff basic, just be yourself, and avoid trying smooth stuff.

[Fugu]

I can relate to what somedude is going through. I used to feel that way myself a lot when I was younger. Sometimes, people just don't get the dating thing until later. I didn't understand dating and women until I was in my mid 20s or so, and I probably didn't feel confident or comfortable dating until I was in my late 20s or early 30s. Some of course are confident at a young age, and they know what to say, when to say it. It took me longer.

 

My advice is to come here once in a while and get pointers. There are also some other good 'how to' advice sites. One column I used to read almost religiously was the Doc Love column on the Ask Men website. Some of it is kinda hokey but the basic points are tips are spot on. I think he and some others have the right approach. ONce I had digested enough of his material, I started implementing some of the advice and paying attention to some of the 'signs' as he put it. It got the ball rolling a bit.

 

But there was this other column actually written by a female (can't remember the name now but it, too, was enlightening, as she talked about the whole dynamic of attraction from a female point of view, and that was actually the bit of information that put me over the top. This column was my breakthrough. I think I began to understand what was b.s. and what wasn't. It also made me realize that you just have to be comfortable being yourself. You also have to know that you can only attract what you can attract. You can't attract women with zero attraction to you. Work with the ones that have some attraction and try to crank it up.

[ThaWholigan]

So she would have said yes if I asked her out last week, last month, the day I met her?

 

In the immortal words of Dwayne Johnson - it doesn't matter if she would have said yes or not. Or at least it shouldn't. It should just be a girl in your class you chatted to then asked out one time. Not this agonizing "ahh, she's gonna reject me, I'm not gonna do it" until like the last available opportunity then she does reject you and your whole world crashes down. You have to try and not attach so much of yourself.

 

Pretty much, and every semester I meet 4-5 girls that I want to ask out and ask out 2-3 of them. I've also met girls on campus clubs and coed sports teams. I've asked out a few of them over the years too. I'm not working now, but I usually ask out 3 girls from my job whenever I'm working. One of the best things about retail is that there are always college age girls around.

 

So your job and college. Shouldn't you be trying to find something to do to meet people outside of those things? Seriously. Meetup is there for a reason. Even CL. Try something different, you never know.

 

How am I supposed to see her outside of class?

 

When class ends, she walks with her friends to the next class. I'd like to see her outside of class, which is why I asked for her number.

 

Why don't you talk to her friends too? Simple solution. Oh yeah, you and friends - don't really work out unless it's a potential GF. I forgot.....

 

If neither the girl or I have a class next and the class ends between 11 and 1, I'll bring up having lunch with the girls I'm interested and I've done that with several girls from my school. I've also hung out with girls I wasn't interested in but it's been a while since I did that.

 

Still, the hard part is actually getting a girl to be willing to see me outside of class. If we both don't have a break after the class we're in, I'm not sure how to see her outside of class.

 

*you're gonna hate this part

 

This is where having some kind of social circle comes in handy. If we're going bowling or some sh*t, I can say "Hey ms, it would be cool to chill after college - me and some friends are going bowling this Friday evening - you should come ;)". You can even engineer such an event for this kind of purpose! If you're gonna ask her on your own, that's cool too actually, so you don't necessarily need a social circle to do this. It just seems better because you're in a more organic environment and she sees a natural you in your element with a few friends. Again - meetup .

 

There has to be some kind of incentive that implies excitement or at the least something that can invigorate her - if it's just lunch with you talking about the same stuff then it's a bit boring for a college chick. Someone your age might fancy some lunch, but even then they might go for a spot of bowling rather than just lunch or something. Bowling is just an example.

 

I probably don't push things that far unless the girl brings up the "dirty" things first, then I'm fine. I'm never the one to initiate.

 

That's OK. But don't always wait for her command - pushing boundaries can actually be good in terms of flushing out whether she responds to you or not. Saying that, I'm not sure that you currently have the confidence to carry it off so maybe I could be jumping the gun with you there.

 

Let me go through my PM's. I think I still have that link.

 

There's a bunch of them you could/should download, not just that one - it's just that this one is geared towards talking to people, particularly women. If I were you, I would also get hold of Ultimate Inner Game and Secrets of the Alpha Man.

 

With a zero percent win ratio, it's impossible to not to expect to lose. I'd have to be mentally ill to believe I actually have a chance with a halfway decent girl. As I said before, I'm always being reminded that girls don't like me. My self-esteem is systematically being broken down and I don't know how to stop it other than just not take any chances. But I want a girl too badly to give up, even though it might ultimately kill me.

 

A few things: Every dog has his day. But nonetheless, expecting to lose is as retarded as expecting to succeed immediately. You should be expecting NOTHING. Not winning or losing. It should be organic to talk to women regardless of whether it goes anywhere. When I don't get somewhere with a girl, the rejection does not register - it's simply a conversation with a girl that didn't proceed into something substantial.

 

Repeat after me: my self-esteem is not tied to women. Keep saying that till you start to believe it and take control of your own self-worth. You are the one who reminds yourself that girls don't like you, just because a few girls don't bite, doesn't mean that no girls will like you. And besides, it's still a pretty small pool of women anyway no matter what you say.

 

There is a difference between hard and soul-crushingly difficult.

 

That difference is all in your head. I learned that myself.

 

He brought weight lifting and how it's hard to get stronger. That's fine. But dealing with women is like I went to the gym, worked out for an hour twice a week, doing the proper exercises (bench, squat, dead-lift etc) and for some reason never get stronger. It's really hard to stay motivated when results don't come.

 

He was using an example - lots of people don't get stronger from weight lifting, sometimes they f*ck themselves up before they even get anywhere. Poor form, posture, not enough reps, too many reps, always targeting same muscles, sh*tty diet before they even come into the gym.

 

In fact, think about it. Your diet f*cks you before you even get to the gym. Just like your mind f*cks you before you start talking to a girl or being able to let loose around her. Your mind makes it harder for you.

 

I'd have a much easier time with this if I've actually experienced some success with women. But it's just failure after failure

 

Success may pick your spirits up temporarily, but with the way you think, a few failures after that will make you fall back down. You can't rely on success to keep you balanced.

 

Therapy was about a lot of mind tricks to try and change how I think and process things. But it was basically ignoring reality.

 

It was ignoring YOUR reality that you created for yourself. Perhaps out of necessity or as a coping mechanism, but it's a way of taking control of your reality or at the very least creating a new one for yourself. You are the one sabotaging yourself by telling yourself it's "ignoring reality" and talking about how hard it is, like you do below:

 

No matter what I do to occupy my time or invest emotional energy, I'm always going to want to be in a relationship. What I want is completely natural and I'm always being bombarded by the media about how important romances are. I will always feel that I'm missing out on life.

 

So am I. I'm always gonna want to be in a relationship too. I would LOVE a GF right now, trust me. But you know what? I'm not gonna die if I don't get into one soon. I can be patient - even without the sex, I lasted before. That missing out feeling is because you don't do anything else. You don't have a life outside of college, work, games, LS and trying to get a GF. You don't find anything else worthwhile except a woman in your life. So of course you're gonna feel like you're missing out. It's natural to want a relationship, but it's not natural to not want anything else IMO.

 

At the bolded - what exactly do you do to occupy your time or invest your emotional energy?

 

I don't need to be rejected my millions of women to understand that something is wrong with me. I don't even need to be rejected by 100 women. I've asked out a wide variety of women and I believe that it is a significant sample size. The only thing I haven't done is try to date non-American women. Perhaps I should leave the country to a place where I might have a chance.

 

It's not significant, trust me. I eclipsed that in the space of 3 months, during which I was an anxious shy person trying to get over myself. No matter how wide you think that variety of women you asked out is, it's not. Maybe leaving America might be a good idea, but where would you go? What would you do once you got there? See this is what I'm talking about - only thinking about the girl, and not about what you're gonna do yourself.

 

I really don't think I do any projecting beliefs on to women, and they reject me because of that. That's a little too new age/psychic for me.

 

I thought you would say that, so I'll leave it at that, but I believe that is true. Projecting is a real thing - your feelings about yourself can indeed manifest in other people before you know it.

 

I only ask out girls that I feel I have some sort of connection with and might actually have a chance. They are the ones I have the most fun talking to and I'm not negative at all because I'm genuinely having fun being around them. Yeah I get a bit nervous when I'm expressing my interest, but I still am sure I'm not projecting any "I'm not good enough for you" signals.

 

What connection? How do you connect with them? Why do you think you might have a chance with them?

 

I hate to say but you can't rely on connection right now - screw that. Just ask them out and find out later. Saves time, saves energy, and saves face if it doesn't work out.

 

No, any sane person will be depressed after continually being rejected, this applies to both men and women.

 

Maybe, but it depends. When Sun Devil says he's depressed about being continually rejected, I can understand - in the space of the year he's been here, dude has asked out more than 100 women. In fact, on sheer numbers alone, he puts a lot of us to shame . It's just his own detriment that he happens to be very small, but more importantly he cannot pinpoint where he's going wrong outside of that and lashes out at women while on here.

 

You on the other hand are different. You marinade on the same chick for ages agonizing over her every move and second guessing yourself at every turn, and then when she inevitably rejects you after you dilly and dally, you use that as further confirmation that you suck and girls hate you and thus the cycle continues.

 

Also few things are more important in life than love, having a companion and raising a family. If anything, that is the reason for life and why we are actually on this planet.

 

Yeah sure, but I'm not gonna be depressed about it. It's counterproductive and will make those things even less of a possibility. What part of that don't you understand? It's not as simple as "don't be depressed", but you should be doing anything else you possibly can to alleviate that problem while you eventually find love. You can't use a girl to cure your depression - you just can't. You have to cure it yourself, preferably before you find a girl otherwise it will just go to sh*t.

 

I want to enjoy life. I want to have a good career where I have money and I can buy the toys I want and see the world. I want to have friends to spend time with.

 

Well then go and do those things. You don't need a GF to do those things, just f*cking do it. And also, please elaborate, because you just say these vague things but for all I know they don't mean anything because it's all about the woman. What about YOU? What kinda friends do you want? What kinda hobbies do you wanna do? Spill, dude. Step into the void. Come on.

 

Though without a woman, I'd still feel hallow. I'm scared of being 50 years old, having the above yet still being alone. That would tell me that I failed.

 

If you can sort out the above, start being bold and stop dilly-dallying with women then you won't have that problem once your life is sorted.

 

 

Every now and then I try to use some double entendres but they usually fall flat. Maybe I might get a laugh out of a girl but that's as far as it goes.

 

Well just get the program I told you about, that should help you out. Start slow though. And look for some torrents about that kind of stuff. Look for that Bobby Rio program I sent you too.

 

Presenting myself as a sexual being, who never has sex. That's like a mouse trying to present itself as a hawk.

 

Everyone's a sexual being. How do you think I lost my virginity? By presenting myself as a meek boy who can't be sexual? Been there, done that, T-shirt is in the laundry. I reinvented myself. I studied everything about women's body, about sex, about talking to girls, about confidence, about everything I could think of. I was still a virgin, but it didn't matter. I was Wholigan - I was sexual regardless of that. Girls were like "So your a virgin", I was like "Yeah, no big deal ;)". It went from being a stumbling block, to literally nothing. By the time I put my cock in the mouth of the eventual lucky girl, it didn't matter whether I was inexperienced or not. I was comfortable being sexual with girls by that point.

 

Because I told myself I was, I supplied myself with the resources and knowledge and then I immersed myself in it until I believed it.

 

While I'm not a virgin, I might as well be one deep-down. I also feel that my sexual side has been punished and it's been locked away. It's basically been broken, kind of how like one would break the spirit of a prisoner. Whenever I try to express my sexual side to a girl the answer is always to keep it in my pants. For once in my life I'd like to know what it's actually like to let myself go with a girl and be sexual. All of the sex I've had has been fake and constrained. No passion or lust, anything like that.

 

Well you need to find it and own it. Express your sexual side like it's nobody's business. Don't be apologetic about it. Don't be too excessive but still - own it man. I understand what it's like to be in fear of people's reaction to you being sexual. Just find the resources, find your niche and go out there and do you.

 

I would say that you need to download some Xuma, some David Shade, all those programs I recommended to you. You can even PM me your email address and I will literally send you all the torrent files myself. You need to use this information to help yourself out.

 

Then, I want you to find something else to do. Learn an instrument, go do a martial art, learn a new skill or something, go to meetup and meet people who want to do those things and expand your boundaries beyond "college, work, home".

 

Make some new friends, even wingmen who go sarging or some BS. Meet some new women outside of college and work. Outside your comfort zone.

 

Start experimenting with your life and your reality. Look for something new to inject into it. Do some random sh*t or something. Just try to switch it up because your reality sounds bleak and miserable. If I thought the way you did, I'd be pissed off too. I would probably be incapable of doing most of the things I do now. But the good news is it doesn't have to stay that way. You can change that, and you have to think better and do better.

 

Hah, not the answer I was expecting from you. Yeah all the guys who did that were the ones who were more comfortable with girls, or simply just didn't give a damn.

 

I think you need to start "not giving a damn". Maybe you will get more comfortable as a result. You care too much.

 

---------------------

 

This took f*cking ages, you better read it

[somedude81]

Most likely no, but you wouldn't have wasted a bunch of time.

At most I wasted two to three hours on her. Instead of going to the class to talk to her, I would have just stayed at home for an hour longer using the computer before I went to school.

 

Ok, this is an issue. You are only interacting with women in places where they pretty much have to be nice to you.

Nope, I've had a few girls in work and school be rude to me. Why would you even say that girls have to be nice to me?

Dating can be exactly like weight lifting in the sense, that on the surface it can seem like you are doing everything you are supposed to but in reality you are doing it all wrong. For example when I go to the gym, i see people who do to few reps, wait to long between sets, use bad form, or a combination of the 3.

Sure I guess.

 

But I meant it in a way that even though I know weight lifting is hard, I do see results, I get stronger and bigger. With women, I'm just not seeing any results at all. I try different approaches, different types of girls, meet them in different situations and the result is always a failure.

 

How do you sense they feel? do you get the sense that they are attracted to you? do they express interest in what you do outside of class? are you always the ones initiating conversations?

No, I don't get the sense that they are attracted to me or even care what I do. The most I get out of them is the feeling that they like talking to me. It's never anything more than that. The only girls that I think might like me are the ones that I would never date because they are far below my minimum standards.

 

As far as I can tell, I'm not the kind of guy that halfway decent looking girls like. They are simply not attracted to me and I have to somehow make up for that. Of course it's nearly impossible and why I keep striking out.

 

@TheWho

 

I saw your long ass post. Thanks for that, I'll get to it tomorrow.

[Lonely Ronin]

At most I wasted two to three hours on her. Instead of going to the class to talk to her, I would have just stayed at home for an hour longer using the computer before I went to school.

 

No, what I meant is you have been thinking about and trying to come up with a way to talk with this girl since the beginning of the semester right? if so, you have put a lot of effort into trying to put yourself into a position where you could date her.

 

Why would you even say that girls have to be nice to me?

Because very few women are going to be very rude to you, when they know they are going to have to interact with you for the foreseeable future. In a class, she is going to see you two or 3 times a week for a semester. At work it's going to be even more often. In a club/activity setting, she is there because she wants to be, so she doesn't want awkwardness to detract from her enjoyment of the activity. In these 3 settings, a women is only going to be directly rude/mean to you for one of two reasons. Either she just has a mean/negative personality, or you have done something that she sees as a bad thing and thus is feed up and wants to send a clear picture that she doesn't like you in that way.

 

 

No, I don't get the sense that they are attracted to me or even care what I do.

ok, then you are wasting your time pursuing her. If a woman is open to dating you, or even to just being your friend, she will take some interest in what you do outside of the times you interact with them. questions like the following come to mind?

 

1. how was your weekend?

2. you have big plans for the holiday?

 

The most I get out of them is the feeling that they like talking to me.

 

what makes you think this, what are they doing to show that they are?

 

 

The only girls that I think might like me are the ones that I would never date because they are far below my minimum standards.

Just as a side note, this is what we (others on LS) mean when we say you negativity/depression can leak out. A better way to think about and express the above is by saying women I'm not interested in, you don't need to quantify why you aren't interested.

 

 

As far as I can tell, I'm not the kind of guy that halfway decent looking girls like. They are simply not attracted to me and I have to somehow make up for that. Of course it's nearly impossible and why I keep striking out.

I have seen your picture, and i don't think this is the case. what I think is you see a woman you are attracted to, and you do any number of the following, and you don't realize it.

 

1. start trying to impress her

2. extending a conversation beyond it's natural ending point.

3. stop acting like you normally do and start acting like you think you should act

4. get awkward

 

I strongly believe that's why the women you aren't interested in, seem attracted to you. You aren't interested so you are yourself, instead of getting flustered or awkward etc....

[Els]

Well, I have news to report, though unfortunately it isn't anything good.

 

I sat through the math lab, thankfully it was only a short session. When the lecture ended I got out of my seat and sat next to the girl I like. We casually chatted off and on for a half hour or so. I also made sure to let her and her friends know I probably won't be coming to the next class session depending on how I did on the test, basically telling them that I'm going to drop the class.

 

When it came time go to our next classes the girls were walking and I asked the one I like if I could talk to her for a minute. Right away she seemed nervous and maybe shy. I told her that I liked talking to her and asked for her phone number, then she said that she doesn't immediately give out her number or something and that I could talk to her in class, I told her again that I'm dropping the class and that I won't see her again. She then said something about possibly seeing me in salsa (which is never going to happen) then her friend called her over before I could finish talking to her.

 

I knew from the first day I saw her that she was a shy girl since she sat in the very back row, not next to anybody. I figure I've built up some comfort with her, sitting next to her almost every week but maybe it wasn't enough?

 

Later on I'm going to friend her on Facebook and try to see if she'll have lunch with me on campus. If she's unwilling to do something as casual as that, then I'll forget about her.

 

I didn't talk at all to the girl in my salsa class as I just wasn't up to getting rejected again. I'll wait to Thursday for that.

 

Sucks to be me.

 

Well, you can't immediately assume that it was something wrong that you did, each time something doesn't work out. She could very well even have a bf, or not want to date at the moment, or have personal issues preventing her from dating. That's a risk you always have to take when you ask out a girl you don't know very well.

 

Chalk it up to a good opportunity to practice, and go on to the next?

[Eclypse]

Oh well, better you find out now than months down the track. Elswyth is right, maybe she has a bf already. Maybe she has a sick family member and feels she can't date right now. Hey, maybe she's a lesbian or asexual. It doesn't mean you stuffed something up this time round. Or maybe you did, no one knows. The point is not to beat up on yourself. I've done that after being rejected (and it's happened a lot) and it's not productive. I don't know what to say apart from: keep trying. You'll get there eventually. I refuse to believe you are so broken that you can't get a girlfriend. I know tons of short guys who have girlfriends. Honestly I never even THOUGHT about height in dating until I came to this website. It really clouds your mind and you have to realise most girls just don't care about height IRL if they like someone.

[clia]

Pretty much, and every semester I meet 4-5 girls that I want to ask out and ask out 2-3 of them. I've also met girls on campus clubs and coed sports teams. I've asked out a few of them over the years too. I'm not working now, but I usually ask out 3 girls from my job whenever I'm working. One of the best things about retail is that there are always college age girls around.

 

The elephant in the room is that you aren't a college aged guy, yet you keep going after girls who are 10+ years younger than you and then wonder why they keep rejecting you.

 

Have you tried asking out women your own age? You can meet them through Meetup groups. Specifically look for groups targeted at people in either their late 20s or 30s and start going to some of their events.

 

(And save your explanations that all these girls think you are only 23. Trust me, they don't; they are just too polite to challenge you when you lie about your age.)

[somedude81]

LOL, I can't find her on Facebook. Which isn't that surprising because I can't even find myself on Facebook.

 

Yeah I know I'm wasting my time. Just bored early in the morning. I could email her through the school blackboard system but that's like really stalkerish.

[Els]

Why are you still trying? Next!!

[cerridwen]

LOL, I can't find her on Facebook. Which isn't that surprising because I can't even find myself on Facebook.

 

Yeah I know I'm wasting my time. Just bored early in the morning. I could email her through the school blackboard system but that's like really stalkerish.

 

Good instinct.

 

Why are you still trying? Next!!

 

Exactly.

Reserve your energy, SD.

Moving on quicker may help lessen the sting of rejection.

Who needs it compounded?

[somedude81]

Good instinct.

 

 

 

Exactly.

Reserve your energy, SD.

Moving on quicker may help lessen the sting of rejection.

Who needs it compounded?

Moving on quickly, as in getting rejected by somebody else?

 

Ugh, I wish there was some way to know which girls I had more than a 10% chance with. I can't ask out everybody who returns a smile.

[Lonely Ronin]

Moving on quickly, as in getting rejected by somebody else?

 

Ugh, I wish there was some way to know which girls I had more than a 10% chance with. I can't ask out everybody who returns a smile.

 

I just told you how above!

[somedude81]

I just told you how above!

You mean by asking

 

"1. how was your weekend?

2. you have big plans for the holiday?"

 

Yeah, girls never ask me those things. Doesn't matter if I ask them those questions they never ask me what I did or plan on doing.

 

Well actually I had a little running joke with a girl in my salsa class where we had a conversation on V-day that she planned to find a boyfriend that night so she wouldn't be alone, and I told her that I'm going to find somebody to get married to. The next time we talked which was a week or so later she asked me if I got married and I told her that I did, but then got divorced and she took everything I owned etc. She was just really fun to interact with and we regularly talked a bit for two weeks or so.

 

She's the one who seems to be avoiding me now

 

Probably realized I wanted to ask her out and now she keeps her distance.

 

FML

[cerridwen]

Moving on quickly, as in getting rejected by somebody else?

 

Ugh, I wish there was some way to know which girls I had more than a 10% chance with. I can't ask out everybody who returns a smile.

 

 

Yes.

What's with your propensity to drive the nail deeper?

She indicated no interest.

[Lonely Ronin]

You mean by asking

 

"1. how was your weekend?

2. you have big plans for the holiday?"

 

A woman that is interested, is going to want to know things about you.

 

 

Well actually I had a little running joke with a girl in my salsa class where we had a conversation on V-day that she planned to find a boyfriend that night so she wouldn't be alone, and I told her that I'm going to find somebody to get married to.

 

please find a wall or desk and bounce your head of it a few times.......

 

The first words out of my mouth when a woman I liked said something like this would have been, "look no further I'm available right now".

 

The next time we talked which was a week or so later she asked me if I got married and I told her that I did, but then got divorced and she took everything I owned etc. She was just really fun to interact with and we regularly talked a bit for two weeks or so.

Ok don't joke about stuff like this, its a very sensitive subject, and be can taken negatively very easily.

 

Probably realized I wanted to ask her out and now she keeps her distance.

 

I'm going to go with more annoyed because she expressed interest and you didn't make a move.

[somedude81]

A woman that is interested, is going to want to know things about you.

Yeah I know that already.

 

Though what do I do when nobody wants to know anything about me?

please find a wall or desk and bounce your head of it a few times.......

 

The first words out of my mouth when a woman I liked said something like this would have been, "look no further I'm available right now".

I don't exactly remember how the conversation went down. She said something about how salsa class is about or not about finding somebody to date. Then we were talking about how it can be speed dating and we had a little mock speed dating event while dancing. It was just fun and goofy.

 

I'm going to go with more annoyed because she expressed interest and you didn't make a move.

Doubt it, because the next couple of times I talked to her she was friendly and then all of a sudden it felt like she was avoiding me.

 

I'm going to try one last ditch effort with her tomorrow and then give up.

 

There's one more girl I have my eye on in that class but she's most likely out of my league. Pretty sorority girl, most likely already has a boyfriend.

[Lonely Ronin]

Doubt it, because the next couple of times I talked to her she was friendly and then all of a sudden it felt like she was avoiding me.

 

No i'd bet money on it. She gave you an opening and you didn't take it. In fact she gave you 2, as she asked you about it the next time she saw you. what she most likely did, was moved on and meet someone else, and she was giving you the cold shoulder as to make sure you don't complicate what might exist between her and the other guy.

[ThaWholigan]

Somedude.

 

That. Was. An. OPENING!

 

Trust me, I've f*cked up those kinds of interactions too, but those are the windows of opportunity where you HAVE to be bold rather than faffing about going "I know she will say no, I have to get the perfect opportunity".....there is no perfect opportunity. None. Timing is important, but only if you seize the small windows you have.

 

Chalk that one up to experience.

[somedude81]

I just don't see what happened as an opening.

 

Even if it was, why is it closed now when we were starting to talk more? It doesn't make any sense for a girl to say, "well I gave you a chance to ask me out last week and you didn't so I hate you now."

 

Unless Ronin is right and she just started dating somebody.