fAPs - do you feel responsible for all As?

[cocorico]

In another thread, someone posted that they expected members of LS who were fAP to apologise to her (and presumably other BS) for having hurt _her_ - presumably by having loved someone else's SO. It's a claim that appears to me so outrageous I simply cannot get my head around it - as it seems to imply that any AP, no matter what the individual circumstances of their particular A, is jointly and severally responsible and accountable to all BS for all and every A ever committed.

 

Are there any fAPs, or any current APs, who feel that they have incurred such a liability, and who do feel they have a responsibility personally to apologise to every single BS for having loved someone who was at least notionally committed to another?

[Catplates]

CRAP .. stupid analogy.

 

Let's apologise to all the people Hitler killed or Attila the Hun or.... it could go on and on.

 

Cat

[cocorico]

I just visited the US and I find it so amusing that when I bump into someone they apologize. Perhaps that is the mentality of the poster in question?

 

The reverse mentality, I assume - or she'd be apologising to you for being M to the man you love.

[Silly_Girl]

I honestly believe my relationship with an MM was beautiful and only able to happen because both of them were guilty of such utter neglect towards their marriage. So No, in answer to the question.

[waterwoman]

No, you aren't responsible for all affairs. And no apology is needed to all BS. I dont want your apology or your sense of guilt.

 

But sometimes a little humility and some sort of understanding of the pain BS are going through might be nice.

 

BTW I think this is teensy bit of a strawman ? Its not a sentiment I have seen expressed often here......

[Got it]

In another thread, someone posted that they expected members of LS who were fAP to apologise to her (and presumably other BS) for having hurt _her_ - presumably by having loved someone else's SO. It's a claim that appears to me so outrageous I simply cannot get my head around it - as it seems to imply that any AP, no matter what the individual circumstances of their particular A, is jointly and severally responsible and accountable to all BS for all and every A ever committed.

 

Are there any fAPs, or any current APs, who feel that they have incurred such a liability, and who do feel they have a responsibility personally to apologise to every single BS for having loved someone who was at least notionally committed to another?

 

Yeah, no. I am sympathetic that someone is in pain. I am sorry that someone wronged them. But I can't speak for their spouse's AP and I will not take responsibility for a stranger's actions.

 

I have been hurt by my parents and some of their parenting skills. I don't hold all parents responsible for their actions and feel like they should apologize to me for my parent's fumbling mistakes. Though if anyone would like to do so, I won't stop you. I also take apologies in the form of baked goods and candy. Just a FYI.

[LFH]

 

Are there any fAPs, or any current APs, who feel that they have incurred such a liability, and who do feel they have a responsibility personally to apologise to every single BS for having loved someone who was at least notionally committed to another?

 

Oh but of course. Because I am in an affair, I must be personally responsible for every guy that doesn't know how to keep it in his pants. It must also be MY job to safeguard the marriage of every person who ever took vows, despite the fact that I currently have fullfilled every vow I've ever made, I am now the keeper of all vows. ADDITIONALLY I must right the wrongs of every person who has hurt anyone else.

 

Um. No. Just... no. Do I feel bad for other people's pain, of course I do, but I dont' feel responsible for the actions that the people in somone elses lives have taken or not taken.

 

Just because actions I take are similiar or perceived as similiar to what someone else has done does not mean I owe someone I've never met an apology. If I say something that personally hurts someone, I'm going to apologize. If I post something that triggers their pain, I'm going to feel bad that that happened, but I'm not responsible for the pain that caused them to trigger. I'm sorry that they were hurt, but I am not the one responsible for the root cause.

 

I don't have any problem owning my stuff and I honestly don't have a problem saying I'm sorry when it's warranted, but the recent influx of this attitude has me a little on edge.

 

 

No, you aren't responsible for all affairs. And no apology is needed to all BS. I dont want your apology or your sense of guilt.

 

But sometimes a little humility and some sort of understanding of the pain BS are going through might be nice.

 

BTW I think this is teensy bit of a strawman ? Its not a sentiment I have seen expressed often here......

 

I'd have agreed with you a couple of weeks ago. I've seen at least 4 posts in the last couple days where it was implied that we should be apologizing pretty much non-stop.

I said it in a different post and waterwoman, I hold nothing but respect for you, so I hope you don't think I'm being mean when I say this, we sometimes need a place where we can say what we need to as well. That's the purpose of a support board. I can't speak for others, but I try to be very gentle on the infidelity board, but I am NOT as cautious here on the OW support board because I view that as a place I'm supposed to express my feelings, and yet I still censor them out of a desire not to hurt any BS that might be reading. I think that sometimes maybe it should be assumed that if you're reading on a board that is primarily "for the other side" you are going to read things that might be upsetting. Trust me, I don't like reading about how all OW are <insert nasty names> but I know that if I read on infidelity I might see that, and I accept it and on days I know that will hurt me, I avoid it.

 

Does that make sense to anyone else but me?

 

And now I will apologize in case my post offended someone.

[sweet_pea]

I just visited the US and I find it so amusing that when I bump into someone they apologize. Perhaps that is the mentality of the poster in question?

 

Probably because they thought that they were the ones to bump into you I guess it's just a courtesy thing?

 

 

BUUUUT, I don't recall reading a BS ask this and I think it is a little wild to expect complete strangers to apologize for actions they didn't specifically commit to said poster.

 

Sorry I'm not a AP!

[loredo21]

I have a hard enough time working on my own forgiveness and my H's forgiveness. I don't have time to worry about every BS that ever was. Does the pain of what I did plague my life every single day? Yes. It is something I will have to live with forever. And likely never forgive myself for. Even H says I need to move on and forgive myself because people make mistakes. It isn't that easy for me. Maybe that sounds selfish but it is in all honesty that I say I can barely hold my own weight in suffering right now let alone a million others...

[Pierre]

I have a hard enough time working on my own forgiveness and my H's forgiveness. I don't have time to worry about every BS that ever was. Does the pain of what I did plague my life every single day? Yes. It is something I will have to live with forever. And likely never forgive myself for. Even H says I need to move on and forgive myself because people make mistakes. It isn't that easy for me. Maybe that sounds selfish but it is in all honesty that I say I can barely hold my own weight in suffering right now let alone a million others...

 

You are normal!

 

Congratulations!

[waterwoman]

LFH you didn't offend me. I don't offend easily!. And I quite agree that on this board BS should read and post at their own risk. But I have also seen some posts on the 'other side' that make me wince a little.

 

BTW posting with consideration and awareness goes for BS too.

[thefooloftheyear]

I actually agree. People with integrity end the marriage first and then go into another relationship. However, I tend to give a pass to a person that needs that extra push to end the marriage. It may not work out in the end, but at least they are not as malicious as the cake eaters.

 

From the point of view of an AP the exit affair is one of the rare instances where the cheating souse is not actually lying about ending the marriage.

 

 

And if you talk to ANY divorce lawyer, its probably the most common reason for divorce, They met someone else that "gave them the push".

 

TFOY

[Owl]

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? I don't believe the OP is discussing her particular situation or her feelings towards her BS.

 

And why the driving need to get her to confess? She doesn't feel that way, agree to disagree but stop harping on it.

 

I think his post was QUITE relevent.

 

The original post here is ludicrous. No one expects an OW/OM to be 'responsible' for every affair ever had. Just plain silly, and an inflammatory comment designed to set the stage for another BS vs OW battle.

 

Pierre's comment here is on the money. No one expects every OW/OM to be accountable...or apologetic for...any affair they weren't personally part of.

 

BUT...the apparant lack of ability by many OW/OM posters on this site to demonstrate any perceivable EMPATHY for others who have been impacted by affairs that the OW/OM weren't involved in is astounding...and THAT is the clear 'dividing line' here, rather than some completely ridiculous belief that every OW/OM here should apologize for an affair that they weren't part of.

[Owl]

That's what I mean: her marriage is bumping into my world and she expects me to apologize?

 

And THIS is the central, critical crux.

 

YOU view that your affair with Neo takes precedence over her marriage. (she's bumping into you)

 

SHE views that her marriage takes precedence over your affair. (you're bumping into her)

 

In this kind of circumstance...people will keep bumping into each other until someone gets knocked on their behind...or until someone finally admits fault and steps aside.

 

I've got to say...this analogy that you've provided speaks volumes to how you view things.

[LFH]

And THIS is the central, critical crux.

 

YOU view that your affair with Neo takes precedence over her marriage. (she's bumping into you)

 

SHE views that her marriage takes precedence over your affair. (you're bumping into her)

 

In this kind of circumstance...people will keep bumping into each other until someone gets knocked on their behind...or until someone finally admits fault and steps aside.

 

I've got to say...this analogy that you've provided speaks volumes to how you view things.

 

Just because you don't agree with her, doesn't mean she's not entitled to her opinion.

 

I view MY relationship with Alex as much more important than his relationship with his wife. I'm not going to apologize to you, or anyone else on this board for feeling that way. Someday if it came down to it, I might possibly consider apologizing to his wife, although I really doubt it.

 

I'm not going to "admit fault" for feeling way either. He views our relationship as more important than theirs and consistently demonstrates it through his actions. WHY on earth would I then view a relationship he places as a lower priority above ours? That would be kinda screwed up.

 

The fact is that people are very focused on their own relationships. Everyone, whether they admit it or not thinks that their relationship matters more....and it does...TO THEM.

 

I'm no more responsible for Trinity's affair than I am for your reconciliation. Everyone has the power to make their own choices. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Unless of course I've suddenly actually been made keeper and guardian of the vows, what other people do isn't up to me to apologize for.

 

Expecting people to act the way you feel that they should or the way that you yourself would personally respond is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[MissBee]

In another thread, someone posted that they expected members of LS who were fAP to apologise to her (and presumably other BS) for having hurt _her_ - presumably by having loved someone else's SO. It's a claim that appears to me so outrageous I simply cannot get my head around it - as it seems to imply that any AP, no matter what the individual circumstances of their particular A, is jointly and severally responsible and accountable to all BS for all and every A ever committed.

 

Are there any fAPs, or any current APs, who feel that they have incurred such a liability, and who do feel they have a responsibility personally to apologise to every single BS for having loved someone who was at least notionally committed to another?

 

 

The phrasing of the question belies your opinion of it and presumes the answer, it's a leading question, but in any case: I didn't see the original claim and if someone said that, it is indeed outrageous and no I don't feel responsible to personally apologize for all As.

 

But I think a clear difference can be noted between those apologetic about their own A or at least concerned that it wasn't the most stellar course of action, and those who are unabashed and even brazen at every turn. I again didn't see the original comment, so I can't really say anything about it, as without seeing it, I have no idea if it is being misconstrued here, but the difference between those two types of attitudes will incur different responses.

Edited March 14, 2013 by MissBee

[LFH]

I again didn't see the original comment, so I can't really say anything about it, as without seeing it, I have no idea if it is being misconstrued here, but the difference between those two types of attitudes will incur different responses.

 

I don't think it was taken out of context at all. The comment has been made by at least 3 people in less than a week. I've seen it 4 times personally and that was the implied meaning in each case.

Generally, the overwhelming feeling I got from a couple of the posts was that I should pretty much be apologizing for even still existing.

We've done "bad" and as such should be apologizing to EVERYONE for what we've done because they were hurt by someone else who did the same thing.

I don't discount their pain, but I'm not personally responsible for it.

[Got it]

I think his post was QUITE relevent.

 

The original post here is ludicrous. No one expects an OW/OM to be 'responsible' for every affair ever had. Just plain silly, and an inflammatory comment designed to set the stage for another BS vs OW battle.

 

Pierre's comment here is on the money. No one expects every OW/OM to be accountable...or apologetic for...any affair they weren't personally part of.

 

BUT...the apparant lack of ability by many OW/OM posters on this site to demonstrate any perceivable EMPATHY for others who have been impacted by affairs that the OW/OM weren't involved in is astounding...and THAT is the clear 'dividing line' here, rather than some completely ridiculous belief that every OW/OM here should apologize for an affair that they weren't part of.

 

Owl, there have been comments lately where just that premise was stated in other threads. I think those comments were the catalyst. I can't speak for others ownership just as I can't take responsibility for others actions.

[cocorico]

 

The original post here is ludicrous. No one expects an OW/OM to be 'responsible' for every affair ever had. Just plain silly, and an inflammatory comment designed to set the stage for another BS vs OW battle.

 

Pierre's comment here is on the money. No one expects every OW/OM to be accountable...or apologetic for...any affair they weren't personally part of.

/QUOTE]

 

 

BTW I think this is teensy bit of a strawman ? Its not a sentiment I have seen expressed often here......

 

 

 

BUUUUT, I don't recall reading a BS ask this and I think it is a little wild to expect complete strangers to apologize for actions they didn't specifically commit to said poster.

 

For those who have not seen the post where a BS expresses the expectation that fAP members of LS apologise to her, it's post no 57 on page 4 of the thread "why is it?"

 

Its intention is pretty clear. I did not misread it, nor create a straw man.

[Owl]

Owl, there have been comments lately where just that premise was stated in other threads. I think those comments were the catalyst.

 

They may have been. That makes the premise no less silly...even if it were originally stated by one of the BS's that post here.

 

It would be silly for anyone to expect OW/OM here to apologize for an affair they weren't part of. I'll have to go looking for this other thread, and read the context in which this statement was apparently made.

 

By the same token...the way this thread was presented to begin with posted this question in what I would consider a foolish context, and I can't imagine anyone actually "finding an answer" here.

[LadyGrey]

AS a fow, I don't feel I owe any BS here an apology but I do have great empathy for them and I make no apologies at all for my empathy. I'd much rather be me, with my empathy then be cold and heartless and cruel. I also have great empathy for many ow's and try to apply this in my postings toward anyone, no matter the label we have here. However there are some posters who is is difficult to find empathy for because they extend very little empathy themselves.

 

I saw the comment that sparked this thread, I think it has been misunderstood.

[Decorative]

I want to know who is making all of these ridiculous comments. I read most threads, and I am missing this uprising against affair partners calling for a mass apology.

[Owl]

For those who have not seen the post where a BS expresses the expectation that fAP members of LS apologise to her, it's post no 57 on page 4 of the thread "why is it?"

 

Its intention is pretty clear. I did not misread it, nor create a straw man.

 

Here's the quote:

Nah, we aren't incredibly limited in our understanding of the breadth and depth of human experience.

 

We are just sitting back waiting for an apology for hurting us, which rarely, if ever comes from certain posters.

 

If you do not get that, you will NEVER understand a BS who loved their spouse.

 

You will never understand the depth and breadth of the pain and it is obvious to all.

 

You will never empathize or apologize because you must be right and defend your position at all costs.

 

Two simple words, I'm sorry...will NEVER drip from the mouths of the defensive, arrogant, fearful.

 

We understand the breath and depth of that experince just fine.

 

I don't see where she indicates that she's looking for an apology for someone here, or from each and every OW/OM here.

 

She appears (to me) to be talking about the OW specifically in her own situation.

 

Why not ask the original poster directly her intent and context???

[Owl]

I feel the need to quote a song...Pink Floyd comes to mind.

 

"All in all, you're all just bricks in the wall"

 

Feels like some wall building going on here.

[cocorico]

Here's the quote:

 

 

I don't see where she indicates that she's looking for an apology for someone here, or from each and every OW/OM here.

 

She appears (to me) to be talking about the OW specifically in her own situation.

 

Why not ask the original poster directly her intent and context???

 

It's pretty clear. " we are just sitting back waiting for an apology for hurting us, which rarely, if ever, comes from certain posters."

 

If the apology was not expected " from certain posters", why would anyone be sitting back waiting for it?