fAPs - do you feel responsible for all As?

[Decorative]

Here's the quote:

 

 

I don't see where she indicates that she's looking for an apology for someone here, or from each and every OW/OM here.

 

She appears (to me) to be talking about the OW specifically in her own situation.

 

Why not ask the original poster directly her intent and context???

 

Oh. Well? Yeah. That's not asking for an apology to all!

[Got it]

They may have been. That makes the premise no less silly...even if it were originally stated by one of the BS's that post here.

 

It would be silly for anyone to expect OW/OM here to apologize for an affair they weren't part of. I'll have to go looking for this other thread, and read the context in which this statement was apparently made.

 

By the same token...the way this thread was presented to begin with posted this question in what I would consider a foolish context, and I can't imagine anyone actually "finding an answer" here.

 

So you are deciding what is proper to post and what is not? I agree, there are many topics that are posted that leave me scratching my head. But if you don't agree with the time worthiness of the topic, why post at all?

 

Obviously someone didn't find it silly to post it. Someone believed it. Others took interest in that that premise and started another thread about said topic. I believe that is acceptable and allowed on LS?

[cocorico]

Oh. Well? Yeah. That's not asking for an apology to all!

 

No, it is not asking for one. It is expressing an expectation thatthereshould have been one, without asking.

[Cali408]

I'm probably going to anger some people here, particularly the betrayed spouses.

What I'm telling you is the truth. I don't need therapy, but am being asked if I owe the BS an apology.

 

Now I'm going back and time and accept FULL responsibilities for my actions toward my wife and jeopardizing what we had and have. And I made the right choice. I apologize to her. My marriage has never been better.

 

As for my AP's spouse. Screw him, I'd punch him out if I ever saw him in the street. He is a nasty human being who bullied and emotionally abused my AP. I made the mistake of trying to be a savior, and fell hook line and sinker. Not enough bad things can happen to that guy. I wished I could tell him all the things I did with her, if I knew it would get back to my wife, just to let him know how his actions drove her away from him. And boy do I have some stories. Thankfully for her, they've been divorced for a year.

 

Indulgence over.

[cocorico]

Again...rather than post this to ALL BS's on the site...why not PM the poster and ask her directly? Or ask her directly via a post, rather than make this about all BS's here?

 

Non sequiter

 

I did not post it to "all BS", I posted it to other fAPs to see if any of them found resonance in it, since the post which sparked this thread didn't speak about " all BS" but about "certain posters" who hurt the BS, which I took to mean APs since the BS usually ascribes that to APs rather than other BS.

[veryhappy]

It's not about a random single post. There are users, and not necessarily BS who come around here trying to squeeze an apology out of every AP.

 

Last person who comes to mind not actively posting is MF70 or whatever her name was. It didn't matter what the topic was about and that there was no mention of the W, herresponse would be along the lines of "how can you live with what you did to the pure, innocent wife? Why aren't you torturing yourself?" etc. etc.

 

There is a real expectation of certain people that AP here act remorseful and apologetic. There are people who demand that and are very shaken to not get what they demand.

[AnotherRound]

In another thread, someone posted that they expected members of LS who were fAP to apologise to her (and presumably other BS) for having hurt _her_ - presumably by having loved someone else's SO. It's a claim that appears to me so outrageous I simply cannot get my head around it - as it seems to imply that any AP, no matter what the individual circumstances of their particular A, is jointly and severally responsible and accountable to all BS for all and every A ever committed.

 

Are there any fAPs, or any current APs, who feel that they have incurred such a liability, and who do feel they have a responsibility personally to apologise to every single BS for having loved someone who was at least notionally committed to another?

 

My situation is a little bit different, but of course I don't feel responsible for the pain that others have causes others. I feel empathy - but in my mind, everyone feels pain - it's a necessary evil of being human, so we deal and we move on.

 

I think it's a common theme that some people feel the need to structure a very chaotic world into little categories - black and white, so that they can make sense of it all. I am perfectly content accepting that there is much gray - it doesn't scare me or freak me out and I have no desire to try to sweep everything into categories that are easily sorted.

 

I like the messiness of life - it's what makes it interesting. I enjoy the fact that each situation is different and I have to use active thinking to figure it out and can't just go on autopilot and assume it's exactly like anything similar - it keeps me on my toes, and I enjoy that.

 

I like having to take all the variables in each situation and making sense of that particular situation - knowing that I will never have an exactly identical situation in my life ever again - it's called LIVING and not just coasting.

 

If there was a map for life, it would be super boring as we would know exactly how each situation would play out and end - that's the wonder of it all, imo. That each one is a crap shoot - you just never know - and you change the course by your actions and reactions - interactions.

 

It's all so unpredictable and random and not able to be categorized. For some people, that is hella scary and anxiety producing. They can't function that way - so they delude themselves that it's all sortable into piles. I guess it works for them - except when it's upset and reality creeps in and their piles get mixed - they can't handle it and react accordingly - flailing to put it BACK into piles bc that makes them feel safer, more in control.

 

I'm not talking about anyone in particular - just noting the phenomena. It's well documented in psychology - the need that some people have to make the world black and white (we've had this convo here, but it triggered a LOT of people). A simple google search will bring up tons of information regarding the psychology of it, those who need it, and how it negatively affects their lives.

[cocorico]

My situation is a little bit different, but of course I don't feel responsible for the pain that others have causes others. I feel empathy - but in my mind, everyone feels pain - it's a necessary evil of being human, so we deal and we move on.

 

I think it's a common theme that some people feel the need to structure a very chaotic world into little categories - black and white, so that they can make sense of it all. I am perfectly content accepting that there is much gray - it doesn't scare me or freak me out and I have no desire to try to sweep everything into categories that are easily sorted.

 

I like the messiness of life - it's what makes it interesting. I enjoy the fact that each situation is different and I have to use active thinking to figure it out and can't just go on autopilot and assume it's exactly like anything similar - it keeps me on my toes, and I enjoy that.

 

I like having to take all the variables in each situation and making sense of that particular situation - knowing that I will never have an exactly identical situation in my life ever again - it's called LIVING and not just coasting.

 

If there was a map for life, it would be super boring as we would know exactly how each situation would play out and end - that's the wonder of it all, imo. That each one is a crap shoot - you just never know - and you change the course by your actions and reactions - interactions.

 

It's all so unpredictable and random and not able to be categorized. For some people, that is hella scary and anxiety producing. They can't function that way - so they delude themselves that it's all sortable into piles. I guess it works for them - except when it's upset and reality creeps in and their piles get mixed - they can't handle it and react accordingly - flailing to put it BACK into piles bc that makes them feel safer, more in control.

 

I'm not talking about anyone in particular - just noting the phenomena. It's well documented in psychology - the need that some people have to make the world black and white (we've had this convo here, but it triggered a LOT of people). A simple google search will bring up tons of information regarding the psychology of it, those who need it, and how it negatively affects their lives.

 

I've never been one for black and white, or even grey. I love living life in glorious technicolour!

[AnotherRound]

CRAP .. stupid analogy.

 

Let's apologise to all the people Hitler killed or Attila the Hun or.... it could go on and on.

 

Cat

 

Or slavery - which has actually come up in my life. Where someone thought that all Caucasian people owed all African American people an apology. Thing is - I hate that we had slavery here in the US - it disgusts me when I read about it. And it breaks my heart (If you haven't read the Slave Diaries, you should!). BUT - I have never had slaves - I would never have slaves - I wouldn't condone it, I wouldn't participate - and there isn't anything I can do about it except have empathy and guarantee it will never happen again on my watch (as much as I can do, I would do to prevent it!).

 

But to expect me to apologize to each African American is - again, weird. I have a very diverse family and we have had in depth discussions about this exact topic and it's an interesting thing. That some people do hold an entire group responsible for their own pain - or that of their ancestors. It's an interesting disconnect that ignores the individuality of every human and thankfully, those in my family don't prescribe to that feeling or we'd be apologizing to them at every dinner for the fact that their ancestors were slaves to our ancestors! (As an aside, I do genealogy and my ancestors have never owned slaves - which makes me feel even better about the whole thing in that I know I am not connected with that atrocity at all!)

[eleanorrigby]

oh jesus, I don't think black people are expecting a personal apology from every white person either!

 

These threads are getting weirder and weirder.

[Owl]

Exactly. It's not that we lack empathy, it's that this is how we view the world.

 

I feel empathy - but in my mind, everyone feels pain - it's a necessary evil of being human, so we deal and we move on.

 

 

Everyone feels pain...so it's ok to inflict it on others???

[AnotherRound]

oh jesus, I don't think black people are expecting a personal apology from every white person either!

 

These threads are getting weirder and weirder.

 

I actually had a colleague demand an apology from me for this! I know, it IS weird! These things do happen though, and there are people of this mindset. We are simply discussing it here. Just because it doesn't happen a huge amount of times doesn't make it irrelevant.

 

You seem bothered that we are discussing it? Why is that? It's just a discussion of one possible scenario... ??? And it was triggered by another post (that I noticed too) that was not misunderstood - as it was perfectly clear what the poster "expected" of Others.

[AnotherRound]

Everyone feels pain...so it's ok to inflict it on others???

 

Nope not okay - not even on an anonymous board like here.

 

But I can't control the world - people are going to hurt you and there is NOTHING I can do about it. I won't hurt you - but that's the ONLY promise I can make.

 

I can only be responsible for what I am in control of - ME.

[eleanorrigby]

I actually had a colleague demand an apology from me for this! I know, it IS weird! These things do happen though, and there are people of this mindset. We are simply discussing it here. Just because it doesn't happen a huge amount of times doesn't make it irrelevant.

 

You seem bothered that we are discussing it? Why is that? It's just a discussion of one possible scenario... ??? And it was triggered by another post (that I noticed too) that was not misunderstood - as it was perfectly clear what the poster "expected" of Others.

 

I'm bothered because you are bring slavery into the discussion! wtf, let's throw abortion and unicorns in there as well. Why not?

[Owl]

Pain is an inevitable part of every relationship. There is however a huge difference between intentionally hurting someone and it being an unavoidable consequence of other actions or emotions.

 

Ahhhh...the KEY!!!

 

Pain caused by infidelity...by choosing to engage in a relationship with someone who is married...most certainly is avoidable. It's a choice.

 

Having a relationship with someone is a CHOICE. Continuing a relationship with someone is a CHOICE.

 

Ergo...the consequences are also...yep...here it comes...a CHOICE.

 

Not unavoidable. Not unintentional.

 

Deliberate. Active. Intentional. Done with awareness, understanding, and intent.

 

What will happen with Neo's wife is all of those things...and you've known that from the beginning. But that's still ok.

 

Done with little or no empathy or sympathy for what she'll suffer.

 

AP's aren't responsible to all the other people out there in the world...but they are responsible for those impacted by their choices.

[LadyGrey]

You might as well blow smoke out your owl ears........ya know. :D

[Cali408]

Interesting. How is it that you apologize to your BS when you clearly have fond memories of the A? How does one sincerely apologize for what, to them, is a time of pleasure?

 

Again, learning, not judging. thank you.

 

I apologized because I made a huge mistake. I hurt someone I love and still do, my wife. She took me back.

 

Because honestly, I do have fond memories of the affair. I'm not going to say, "I had an affair and it was horrible. The high you get from falling in love is the greatest! An alcoholic has some great times when they are drinking. A cocaine addict when he is high, a gambler when he is winning. It was a great time until D Day. I'm still fond of her, love her as a matter of fact. I don't have any contact with her and wish her nothing but the best. And I mean that.

 

To use a metaphor to describe, An affair is like a great vacation for awhile. You have the time of your life, and then DDay comes. You get the bill. Which can be really ugly (You have the decision. Be moral and pay it off and end it. Or be a deadbeat and don't) Yes, the cost isn't worth it, but how was Hawaii?

[TheOW]

Again I haven't read through the whole thread

 

I think that BS can only understand the pain for each other and this is exactly the same for OW - we understand our pain and not so much the BS and vice versa (I hope I'm getting my point across cos I suck donkey baws at explaining myself clearly)

 

This is why I think in there are so many arguments/disagreements with each other ..... until we walk a mile in each others shoes we have no clue what the other thinks/feels

[Pierre]

Again I haven't read through the whole thread

 

I think that BS can only understand the pain for each other and this is exactly the same for OW - we understand our pain and not so much the BS and vice versa (I hope I'm getting my point across cos I suck donkey baws at explaining myself clearly)

 

This is why I think in there are so many arguments/disagreements with each other ..... until we walk a mile in each others shoes we have no clue what the other thinks/feels

 

Hi TOW:

 

This is my take regarding your post. The betrayed wife may not care if the OW is hurting because the OW was having sex with her H. However, I believe the wife understands the pain.

 

The OW does not empathize with the pain of the BW because this is a pre-requisite for the affair. If the OW was fully cognitive she is putting a dagger in the chest of the BW then there would be no affair.

 

If you read the forum you will see the rationalizations that may induce the OW to believe there is no pain in the BW: "she must know, she just looks the other way, she does not love her H she gives her attention to the children, MM said marriage is over and that wife is not interested, BW does not like sex, etc". So a priori the OW is conditioned not to feel anything for the BW.

 

And lastly, the BW is your opponent for the prize.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Pierre

[TheOW]

Hi TOW:

 

This is my take regarding your post. The betrayed wife may not care if the OW is hurting because the OW was having sex with her H. However, I believe the wife understands the pain.

 

The OW does not empathize with the pain of the BW because this is a pre-requisite for the affair. If the OW was fully cognitive she is putting a dagger in the chest of the BW then there would be no affair.

 

If you read the forum you will see the rationalizations that may induce the OW to believe there is no pain in the BW: "she must know, she just looks the other way, she does not love her H she gives her attention to the children, MM said marriage is over and that wife is not interested, BW does not like sex, etc". So a priori the OW is conditioned not to feel anything for the BW.

 

And lastly, the BW is your opponent for the prize.

 

Naw

 

She was never an opponent for the prize he was hers not mines always was and always will be hers.

 

MM and his wife didn't have sex (this is know as his wife even said so herself) he was happy at home with his life and family until I came along, it was a mutual attraction that went too far and when the feelings became involved it was really hard to let go.

 

What I am beginning to realise though is that I can move forward start anew and forget him (I will always love him) She can't she will have to look at him everyday and know what he has done long after I have forgotten about him, this is what is starting to sink in, I can go on my merry way and forget about them, she can't forget about us.

 

My defences are finally starting to come down and I'm beginning to understand the reality of things.

 

But I still don't regret knowing and loving him, never will either.

[anne1707]

What I am beginning to realise though is that I can move forward start anew and forget him (I will always love him) She can't she will have to look at him everyday and know what he has done long after I have forgotten about him, this is what is starting to sink in, I can go on my merry way and forget about them, she can't forget about us.

 

TOW

 

If you will always love him then you will not have forgotten him.

 

Plus you cannot know that she won't be able to move on from this. Plenty of BS do.

[TheOW]

TOW

 

If you will always love him then you will not have forgotten him.

 

Plus you cannot know that she won't be able to move on from this. Plenty of BS do.

 

But you can forget someone for a while then think about them and the love you once had for them, or still do.

 

I really hope she can she deserves to, but what I've read from BS's on here is that they can forgive their WS but they will never forget and that was the point i was trying to make.

[anne1707]

I really hope she can she deserves to, but what I've read from BS's on here is that they can forgive their WS but they will never forget and that was the point i was trying to make.

 

Sorry but I read your post as almost relishing that she will not get past this. You seem to want her to suffer.

[TheOW]

Sorry but I read your post as almost relishing that she will not get past this. You seem to want her to suffer.

 

Oh god no, that statement actually brought bile into my mouth.

 

No no no I hope she does get over it, I wish I never involved myself with him, the highs and love we felt for each other are nothing in comparison to the destruction and chaos we have brought around us. And most of all the pain and humiliation both our BS's are feeling.

 

I will move on (but not for a very long time, I need to stay away from relationships until I figure myself out) I will focus on my children and give them the best upbringing I possibly can, with as much involvement from their father.

[anne1707]

That's more like it TOW