fAPs - do you feel responsible for all As?

[georgia girl]

Darn it. I had a great response crafted and somehow deleted it. This one will never be as good.

 

The question is: do the APs need to feel responsible to the BS. Here's my answer:

 

There will be no greater commitment you will ever make than committing in a marriage. It's all-encompassing and it takes every thing you've got to make a good marriage a great one. When a WS cheats, he violates not just everything about your marriage, but everything about you personally. He invalidates your history, every experience you've ever had together and a lot of times, even your views about yourself.

 

So, when an AP helps a WS cheat, it is a violation and it is hard to think that a fellow woman - knowing how critical commitment is to a woman - would ever do that to you.

 

But conversely, when an OW gets into a relationship, they also commit. And they're encouraged to commit by a man who pursues her, gives him the best of himself and makes promises I think he may genuinely intend to keep in the moment when he makes them, but could never really keep when considering his whole reality. He pursues her into this commitment and validates that commitment she makes by his words, thoughts and actions.

 

So, when a DDay happens, he has two committed women. One, who - for the lack of a better phrase - legitimately committed duringa courtship and marriage. And the other, who committed because he pursued her as if he were single. They both are devastated. Now, maybe one is a bit more accountable for the hurt, because they were aware at the time that the situation was not ideal and took the risk anyone. And to that end, I do think we do owe each other an apology when our actions, particularly actions we took knowingly, hurt another person.

 

But what about the WS between them? Why does he get off scott-free with everyone thinking he's some kind of decent guy? If my husband ever cheated, I would love him to pick me. Then, I would kick him out. I'd love for him to go running to his AP for her to laugh and shut the door in the face. I'd love for him to spend the rest of his life alone and considering why he'd never be a good partner to anyone.

 

And I'd wish that the AP was happy. Because deep down, I'd know that the jerk pursued her. I'd know that he did all of the things he did to make me fall in love. And I'd wonder what kind of man could ever deliberately do that to two women he supposedly loved.

 

I guess my point here is that the one who owes the real apologies is the WS. And I just see them getting away with everything. It makes me sad.

[OpenBook]

Are there any fAPs, or any current APs, who feel that they have incurred such a liability, and who do feel they have a responsibility personally to apologise to every single BS for having loved someone who was at least notionally committed to another?

 

No. I just wish the BS's would clean up their own backyards so their WS's would stop coming after me. Maybe then they might have a leg to stand on in expecting me to apologize to them.

 

But I'm not holding my breath.

 

The damage was already done in the M before I ever even appeared on the horizon.

[Decorative]

Where do these mythical wayward spouses who get off with no consequences live?

 

Seriously. Where? Not in my house. Heck, my wayward wasn't even allowed to live here for a very long time.

 

I am confused by many of the posts going on. They don't match my reality, or the reality of majority of people I know going through reconciliation.

[Decorative]

No. I just wish the BS's would clean up their own backyards so their WS's would stop coming after me. Maybe then they might have a leg to stand on in expecting me to apologize to them.

 

But I'm not holding my breath.

 

The damage was already done in the M before I ever even appeared on the horizon.

 

This is unintentionally hilarious.

 

Yes. That's it.

 

because other people control other people.

 

We're that powerful that we control other people's decisions.

 

Uh huh. Yup. That's it.

 

( or maybe not)

[ComingInHot]

So interesting to me as I NEVER in a Million Trillion years expected any OW/OM anywhere Ever to be apologetic to the BS.

Why would she be sorry? Sorry because she willingly slept w/a married man? Sorry because she inserted herself on purpose? Sorry it didn't work out w/MM after all so you wasted her time as much as your own?

 

Why on earth would you be sorry?

 

What I learned here from some amazing, wonderful ex or former OW's, was that some Were sorry for the pain the helped inflict while some simply do not. But this group of ladies sorry or not are still kind AND respectful.

 

Still, I was pleasantly surprised* It is because of these women, I have learned SO much, and can see beyond those that really don't show much humanity at all.

[MissBee]

oh jesus, I don't think black people are expecting a personal apology from every white person either!

 

These threads are getting weirder and weirder.

 

It's really absurd now...

 

I'm not quite sure what the point was initially, as I think the answer to the original absurd claim was obvious enough and didn't need a thread for it to be discussed.

 

But just last week we had a lecture at my university in which the speaker gave the example of people feeling that stuff is not their problem or is wasn't them so they bear no responsibility as ridiculous and useless towards social change. I agree with him. Frankly, I think it is a sophomoric and nonsensical argument to talk about whether or not any one person should go around making apologies. Why are we playing that game? It's clearly nonsense. The point being conveyed, based on the quote which was supposed to be the original source, is that there is a difference between people in the world who are empathetic and work towards making things better in life and then there are those who are super self-centered and flippant who are always quick to say "It wasn't me", "I don't need to apologize" "All I did was love someone" "My ancestors had slaves, I don't" and other remarks of the like.

 

I am genuinely confused about the confusion . I am also a former other woman and wonder why I do not feel like I have ever been made to apologize to all BSs? A better question IMO is why do some OW or fAP feel that way? :confused:We can all read the same thing and then how we interpret it is solely on us...if you feel defensive or like someone is calling you out specifically or that you are being made to lay prostrate at BSs feet...why is that? I certainly have never felt that way and never have done that so it doesn't resonate with me.

[Spark1111]

It's my post folks, and I still stand by it.

 

I actually am agreeing with most of you, but if you choose to be upset, so be it.

 

it won't be the first time I have been cherry-picked and taken out of context.

 

I am a grown up and can handle it.

 

Sometimes, the giving of a little empathy goes a long way to getting some. That's human nature.

 

And please, please, read the thread before responding. that is only fair and kind to the original poster who I felt for.

 

you do not have to apologize to me, as none of you were the arrogant, nasty narcissistic OW in my sitch, the one I forgave and forgot about immediately because I empathized with her, felt sorry for her.

 

But PLEASE show kindness to someone in pain, someone baring their soul, before you discount her thread AND her feelings.

 

she's a real kind person. Show kindness and empathy in return.

 

it is what this forum always asks for, and often, rightfully so.

 

Extend it to others, BSs, too.

[spice4life]

Okay, so I went back and read the post that sparked this conversation and I'm confused. Spark, what did you mean exactly? Were you saying there are a few posters here that owe a you and someone else an apology specifically? Just curious.

[spice4life]

Okay, so I went back and read the post that sparked this conversation and I'm confused. Spark, what did you mean exactly? Were you saying there are a few posters here that owe a you and someone else an apology specifically? Just curious.

 

Nevermind...we crossed posts! I didn't read your latest response where you explain everything.

[Spark1111]

honestly, timing can be everything....read the thread and show compassion...is all I am saying.

 

Actually, chapter and verse have been cited here, so it is easy to find.

[Silly_Girl]

Where do these mythical wayward spouses who get off with no consequences live?

 

Seriously. Where? Not in my house. Heck, my wayward wasn't even allowed to live here for a very long time.

 

I am confused by many of the posts going on. They don't match my reality, or the reality of majority of people I know going through reconciliation.

 

All my MM had to do was stop seeing me, and they could 'go back to how things were before'. Which were so good that er... both spouses had affairs. Well done!

 

The W wanted the status quo because it suited her (and her man-friend) more than it suited him. So it definitely does happen.

[Spark1111]

All my MM had to do was stop seeing me, and they could 'go back to how things were before'. Which were so good that er... both spouses had affairs. Well done!

 

The W wanted the status quo because it suited her (and her man-friend) more than it suited him. So it definitely does happen.

 

but I doubt she is posting at LS.....

 

generally, you can get a sense of those who are angry and devastated (rightfully so), and those who are still angry for reasons I can understand but where are they stuck?

 

like I said to a friend today, you can choose to be right, rigidly and defensively so, or you can choose to be happy and understand the bigger picture.

 

that is the process that leads to true healing, IMHO.

[LadyGrey]

honestly, timing can be everything....read the thread and show compassion...is all I am saying.

 

Actually, chapter and verse have been cited here, so it is easy to find.

 

 

Let's just clear this up once and for all. I believe Spark was saying the apology in that thread should have been made to me. I disclosed something I had never uttered to another soul and she was aghast at some of the later responses that had nothing at all to do with the original thread or my disclosure. Spark, thank you for being kind and considerate.

[Silly_Girl]

Let's just clear this up once and for all. I believe Spark was saying the apology in that thread should have been made to me. I disclosed something I had never uttered to another soul and she was aghast at some of the later responses that had nothing at all to do with the original thread or my disclosure. Spark, thank you for being kind and considerate.

 

Not meant unkindly LG, but an observation from above - I'm not very familiar with the thread but if subsequent responses had 'nothing at all to do with' your post why would you be aghast and why would you be receiving an apology? Or am I missing the point?

[LadyGrey]

Not meant unkindly LG, but an observation from above - I'm not very familiar with the thread but if subsequent responses had 'nothing at all to do with' your post why would you be aghast and why would you be receiving an apology? Or am I missing the point?

 

I disclosed that I had been molested by a mm for 2 years starting when I was 14. Many responses were very kind, some were not because they had an agenda that had nothing at all to do with my disclosure.

[Silly_Girl]

I disclosed that I had been molested by a mm for 2 years starting when I was 14. Many responses were very kind, some were not because they had an agenda that had nothing at all to do with my disclosure.

 

I'm probably better off reading it properly

[Catplates]

I feel that the thread has lost the original intention.

 

As a fAP do you feel you should apologise to all the BS everywhere on the LS site ?

 

No. It's, it not their damned business what I happened with the xMM.

[Decorative]

All my MM had to do was stop seeing me, and they could 'go back to how things were before'. Which were so good that er... both spouses had affairs. Well done!

 

The W wanted the status quo because it suited her (and her man-friend) more than it suited him. So it definitely does happen.

 

Were you in their marriage , living in their house?

 

If not, then I would posit that you don't in fact know that there were no consequences.

[cocorico]

I disclosed that I had been molested by a mm for 2 years starting when I was 14. Many responses were very kind, some were not because they had an agenda that had nothing at all to do with my disclosure.

 

The disclosure was not the topic of the thread. The community guidelines state that members should respond to the issues raised in the opening post. IIRC, that was all that those members were doing - respecting the community guidelines. So I'm confused as to why an apology was being sought, or expected. If someone starts a thread, and members respond on topic, ignoring any off-topic meanders (whether good, bad or indifferent), how is it reasonable for the OP to demand that they not follow the thread topic, but instead focus on something entirely different?

 

Were any of those posts disrespectful in terms of the opening post / topic of the thread? If so, report them. Were any personally antagonistic to the OP specifically pertaining to the "confession"? If so, report them. But to be disgruntled because some members went back to discussing the original topic of the thread, as they are instructed to do by the community guidelines, is a little disingenuous, IMO.

[Silly_Girl]

Were you in their marriage , living in their house?

 

If not, then I would posit that you don't in fact know that there were no consequences.

 

No silly me! I only use things like emails, texts, voicemails, discussions with the man living in the house, and latter conversations with friends and family, plus I know from elsewhere about the affair she had first.

 

Good job you're here!

[Decorative]

No silly me! I only use things like emails, texts, voicemails, discussions with the man living in the house, and latter conversations with friends and family, plus I know from elsewhere about the affair she had first.

 

Good job you're here!

 

Sweet.

 

I just was attempting to point out that as an observer - it's unlikely you know the full story.

 

Liars lie, in case you didn't know that. And a cheater? Lies.

 

So again? Unless you lived in that house as one of them? You truly don't know everything.

[Silly_Girl]

Sweet.

 

I just was attempting to point out that as an observer - it's unlikely you know the full story.

 

Liars lie, in case you didn't know that. And a cheater? Lies.

 

So again? Unless you lived in that house as one of them? You truly don't know everything.

 

And I bet even the people living in the house at the time have a different take on things. Life's like that.

[ComingInHot]

Wanted to way in on the question of do AP's feel responsible for ALL A's?

 

I can't necessarily answer as I'm not a cheater but I think the AP should take responsibility for Only their own A.

 

It's right up there w/should an AP apologize to ALL BS's? I don't think so. And the AP should Only apologize IF they sincerely mean it. Not use the apology to open lines of communication to hurt, degrade and share un-asked for information. Same goes for the BS.

 

The BS should take responsibility for (if there is any) issues w/in the M but Not for the WS cheating.

 

I actually apologized to the exow for my H's behavior after she wrote she was sorry. I probably shouldn't have done that, but I was concerned that she was hurt and confused.

Turns out, she wasn't "hurt" or confused. She was just angry at ME. Okay , I believe her ego was hurt and maybe pride but that was about it.

 

I then looked at our M and what it was that I had contributed, NOT to his cheating, but to some issues the M had.

My H tells me the only issue really was that I was being pulled in TOO many different directions to make him feel Important.

I felt horrible about that. Of course I gave him attention, but he didn't feel the admiration that so many men crave...

[Got it]

Wanted to way in on the question of do AP's feel responsible for ALL A's?

 

I can't necessarily answer as I'm not a cheater but I think the AP should take responsibility for Only their own A.

 

It's right up there w/should an AP apologize to ALL BS's? I don't think so. And the AP should Only apologize IF they sincerely mean it. Not use the apology to open lines of communication to hurt, degrade and share un-asked for information. Same goes for the BS.

 

The BS should take responsibility for (if there is any) issues w/in the M but Not for the WS cheating.

 

I actually apologized to the exow for my H's behavior after she wrote she was sorry. I probably shouldn't have done that, but I was concerned that she was hurt and confused.

Turns out, she wasn't "hurt" or confused. She was just angry at ME. Okay , I believe her ego was hurt and maybe pride but that was about it.

 

I then looked at our M and what it was that I had contributed, NOT to his cheating, but to some issues the M had.

My H tells me the only issue really was that I was being pulled in TOO many different directions to make him feel Important.

I felt horrible about that. Of course I gave him attention, but he didn't feel the admiration that so many men crave...

 

CIH - This is an interesting point and may be a case by case basis. But do you feel that one should only shared asked for information? Is that what you are saying? A little confused and think interesting if that is indeed your thought. If that is what you were meaning, can you explain why?

[Decorative]

And I bet even the people living in the house at the time have a different take on things. Life's like that.

 

For sure.

 

But you still weren't there.