double standards...

[Got it]

Do people really find it satisfying to live their lives based on what others might think of them?

How incredibly unfullfilling that must be, how sad.

Never being comfortable enough in your mind, your own skin to stand for what you believe in, or even know what you actually believe in or who you are.

 

At the end of the day, I know I'm a good person, I may not have made all the right choices in my life, but I'm overall very content with where I'm at in my life. I know I'm at peace with my decisions and that people that matter know me for me, not for some model of what they would like or what I think they might like.

 

How lonely it must be to have to live with acceptance of others as your main goal in life.

 

Isn't that the epitome of external validation!?! (dum dum dummmmmm!!!! )

[LFH]

Isn't that the epitome of external validation!?! (dum dum dummmmmm!!!! )

 

I thought it was the defintion of high school.

I must not need external validation because I don't give a rats behind what most people think of me... and yet ironically that seems to make most people (irl) like me more.

[Pierre]

Is that what drives your behaviour, Pierre? What other people think?

 

Straw man alert!:D:D

 

Living a life based on the perception of others is ultimate external validation. You are praying to the choir.

 

However, one needs some degree of decorum, that is all!

[Pierre]

Omg lmao sometimes it's just not that deep I used to be a very insecure person but now I live to please myself

 

I am happy you have improved yourself.

 

But, your quest for happiness should not include harming others. That is not the same as paying attention to what others say.

[Got it]

Straw man alert!:D:D

 

Living a life based on the perception of others is ultimate external validation. You are praying to the choir.

 

However, one needs some degree of decorum, that is all!

 

So, you do live your life based on the perception of others? Confused by the preaching/praying to the choir comment. If so, why!?!

[imperfectangel]

I am happy you have improved yourself.

 

But, your quest for happiness should not include harming others. That is not the same as paying attention to what others say.

 

Other than the mm I was involved in - who at first I didn't even know was married - I have never and would never do anything to intentionally hurt anyone but you have to live for yourself.

 

A mum might not want her son to join the army - should he follow his dream and risk hurting his mum or should he take a career path that would suit others? Where do you draw the line?

[underwater2010]

That is right...because chosing to serve your country and stand up for those that cannot do so themselves is so much like screwing someone's spouse. Try again. Oh....and the mother is not lied to. She just cannot handle the hurt of knowing her son/daughter is putting themselves in harms way. The key word being KNOWING.

[imperfectangel]

I don't understand why you hang around on this forum the clues in the name - 'the other man/woman'

 

People come here for support not to be belittled by bitter bs'

[underwater2010]

I don't see alot of bitter BSs here. What I see is alot of analogies that just don't work. Yes this forum is for support, but it is also for discussion. OW/OM, just like BSs, need to realize that not every post is directed at their situation.

[Got it]

I don't see alot of bitter BSs here. What I see is alot of analogies that just don't work. Yes this forum is for support, but it is also for discussion. OW/OM, just like BSs, need to realize that not every post is directed at their situation.

 

Like being OP in an affair?

[AnotherRound]

People who thoroughly don't care what others think end up in jail or hospitals. A certain level of not caring about other's perceptions can be healthy, disregarding social contracts all together is very unhealthy.

 

Attitudes like yours are why so many APs get hurt in crimes of revenge, the law even minimizes the punishment of the aggressors under passion defenses because legislation recognizes how "not caring" for another can help contribute to the motive...

 

I disagree. You can not care what others think of you and still follow rules. Problem is - not all rules are universal. I don't break laws. If having an affair was breaking a law - I wouldn't do it. It is not illegal - I didn't break any laws.

 

If you choose not to eat meat on fridays - that is YOUR rule, not mine. I love having a steak on Friday night.

 

Just because one person thinks something is right/wrong - doesn't make it universal. And some people, myself included, take each situation on a case by case basis. I broke no rules in my relationship - no laws were broken. I may have broken one of your rules - but your rules aren't the end all, so, it's irrelevant what you think about my actions.

 

Following laws and rules is something I do - and I don't care what anyone else in this society thinks of me. They won't be successful in convincing me that I'm a "bad" person, or that my rules are less than theirs - bc then it's about morality, and no other human has the right to judge my morality, just as I don't have the right to judge theirs.

[Owl]

I disagree. You can not care what others think of you and still follow rules. Problem is - not all rules are universal. I don't break laws. If having an affair was breaking a law - I wouldn't do it. It is not illegal - I didn't break any laws.

 

If you choose not to eat meat on fridays - that is YOUR rule, not mine. I love having a steak on Friday night.

 

Just because one person thinks something is right/wrong - doesn't make it universal. And some people, myself included, take each situation on a case by case basis. I broke no rules in my relationship - no laws were broken. I may have broken one of your rules - but your rules aren't the end all, so, it's irrelevant what you think about my actions.

 

Following laws and rules is something I do - and I don't care what anyone else in this society thinks of me. They won't be successful in convincing me that I'm a "bad" person, or that my rules are less than theirs - bc then it's about morality, and no other human has the right to judge my morality, just as I don't have the right to judge theirs.

 

True...but your choice to eat steak on Friday night doesn't impact anyone else's life...well, except perhaps for that poor cow, but that's another issue entirely!

 

It's fine not caring about other other people think...as long as your lack of concern doesn't negatively impact anyone else.

 

It may not be illegal to wipe your snot on a doorknob...but doing so is not ONLY something people frown upon, but it also has the potential to get them sick...which is a quantifiable negative impact.

 

Having a relationship with someone who is married is similar...not only does it require a lack of care about what people think...but a lack of care about who it hurts. THAT is the kind of behavior someone was referring to as being the type of mindset behind that of people in jails and such.

 

It's more than a lack of care about what they think...it's a lack of care about who is hurt by those actions.

[ComingInHot]

AnotherRound," 5

 

Quote: Originally Posted by AtheistScholar People who thoroughly don't care what others think end up in jail or hospitals. A certain level of not caring about other's perceptions can be healthy, disregarding social contracts all together is very unhealthy.

 

Attitudes like yours are why so many APs get hurt in crimes of revenge, the law even minimizes the punishment of the aggressors under passion defenses because legislation recognizes how "not caring" for another can help contribute to the motive...

 

I disagree. You can not care what others think of you and still follow rules. Problem is - not all rules are universal. I don't break laws. If having an affair was breaking a law - I wouldn't do it. It is not illegal - I didn't break any laws."

 

Just a quick question, & I apologize if you think I am "following you around" , I am really not, you just have a-lot of posts right now and I have question

Anyway, the above in quotes has me confused and a little concerned as you state you help others who are hurting greatly and help lead them to a better state of mind, but how does the above put anyone in a better state... So, my main question is does what you post here Show or give insight into how you guide clients? Or is LS more of a personal place for you to vent your true feeling?

(Man it's hard sometimes to ask a question w/worry the recipiant will be offended or take it as an insult. )

But then again AR, I care about how I make you feel even though I don't know you or agree w/you. I STILL would feel awful if I hurt you*

[AnotherRound]

True...but your choice to eat steak on Friday night doesn't impact anyone else's life...well, except perhaps for that poor cow, but that's another issue entirely!

 

It's fine not caring about other other people think...as long as your lack of concern doesn't negatively impact anyone else.

 

It may not be illegal to wipe your snot on a doorknob...but doing so is not ONLY something people frown upon, but it also has the potential to get them sick...which is a quantifiable negative impact.

 

Having a relationship with someone who is married is similar...not only does it require a lack of care about what people think...but a lack of care about who it hurts. THAT is the kind of behavior someone was referring to as being the type of mindset behind that of people in jails and such.

 

It's more than a lack of care about what they think...it's a lack of care about who is hurt by those actions.

 

Some people consider it the way you do - some don't. I have to go with what I know and feel - and that's not going to line up with everyone all the time, for sure. I didn't hurt anyone in the affair with my exMM - and didn't do anything wrong. Although, there will be people that will tell you that he "should" have gotten divorced and not had a relationship with me until he was divorced. What you think is wrong, not everyone thinks is wrong.

[AnotherRound]

AnotherRound," 5

 

Quote: Originally Posted by AtheistScholar People who thoroughly don't care what others think end up in jail or hospitals. A certain level of not caring about other's perceptions can be healthy, disregarding social contracts all together is very unhealthy.

 

Attitudes like yours are why so many APs get hurt in crimes of revenge, the law even minimizes the punishment of the aggressors under passion defenses because legislation recognizes how "not caring" for another can help contribute to the motive...

 

I disagree. You can not care what others think of you and still follow rules. Problem is - not all rules are universal. I don't break laws. If having an affair was breaking a law - I wouldn't do it. It is not illegal - I didn't break any laws."

 

Just a quick question, & I apologize if you think I am "following you around" , I am really not, you just have a-lot of posts right now and I have question

Anyway, the above in quotes has me confused and a little concerned as you state you help others who are hurting greatly and help lead them to a better state of mind, but how does the above put anyone in a better state... So, my main question is does what you post here Show or give insight into how you guide clients? Or is LS more of a personal place for you to vent your true feeling?

(Man it's hard sometimes to ask a question w/worry the recipiant will be offended or take it as an insult. )

But then again AR, I care about how I make you feel even though I don't know you or agree w/you. I STILL would feel awful if I hurt you*

 

I work with my clients to find internal validation and the ability to self- soothe. I don't judge their choices or what they consider to be right and wrong. I work with a very diverse population, and no two cultures are alike. What is acceptable in some cultures is not in others, religious beliefs vary, family dynamics vary etc. etc.

 

There are some things that are universally taboo. Some things are only taboo to religious folks. There are things in each culture that other cultures may find barbaric, harmful, unhealthy, wrong, etc. In the US, most world cultures are represented to some extent. To try to force a very JudeoChristian code on everyone would be not only unhealthy for those who don't subscribe, but would make counseling NOT work for them. I have to meet them where they are and take into account all of those cultural markers.

 

There ARE cultures that accept having "mistresses" - and I have worked with people in those cultures. There is a protocol of discretion and such - but two immediately come to mind where it is expected that the men will have outside relationships from their marriage - both cultures are very common in the US.

 

If a client comes to me and says, "I want to have an affair" - I would not tell them that it is a "bad" thing to do - that is NOT my job, I am completely neutral for that client and their situation. I would discuss with them why, explore all options, perhaps there is a healthier option for them - perhaps not. I don't discourage or encourage decisions to go either way - that is their choice. If it works for them, and they feel good about themselves and are healthy and functioning - who am I to tell them it's the "wrong" way to do it? I can't tell you how many situations I have dealt with in my career that I would NEVER allow in MY life - but that is irrelevant. My choices are mine, theirs are theirs.

 

Counselors don't place their moral guidelines on others. If they do, they aren't counseling. I have my own beliefs and opinions, but they have no bearing on my counseling - I truly put them aside and help the client go where they want to go. Where they have decided they need and want to be. Through the process, they may change their minds and figure out a better way to go - they may not. If something isn't working for them - they usually let me know and we go from there.

 

I'm not sure if I answered your question at all - but it's really hard to explain sometimes bc this isn't something most people can imagine doing. They think that bc I do have my own thoughts and beliefs that I MUST use them to coerce people to my way of thinking or behaving - but I truly don't. UNLESS - what they are doing is not working for them - but even then, my way doesn't come into play - they have to do what is right for them, what they can feel good about.

 

LS is my place to talk about what I feel and think - bc I have to suppress it all day at work. It's a place for me to discuss my feelings and thoughts, especially about affairs, without having to be neutral. I obviously cannot talk to my clients about how I feel or what I think in regards to my own situation, would kind of defeat the purpose of their session, lol. I also found when I came here before, that I could be helpful to others here. Because I do have a specialized skill set that comes in pretty handy for people here - not everyone, but some.

 

If that doesn't answer it, I'm sorry! Lol I had a LONG day at work today and my brain is a bit mushy! And, as an aside, I do point out double standards to clients when they are believing them - to bring this back to the thread. That kind of thinking can lead to some issues in handling life, and some unrealistic beliefs - and I do like to help my clients see the world realistically bc sometimes they have a very difficult time doing so and that is actually what is impeding them from healing or improving their quality of life.

[LFH]

AnotherRound," 5

 

(Man it's hard sometimes to ask a question w/worry the recipiant will be offended or take it as an insult. )

But then again AR, I care about how I make you feel even though I don't know you or agree w/you. I STILL would feel awful if I hurt you*

 

That is how I feel every time I post these days. If I post how I feel someone is going to act all hurt about it and if I don't then it doesn't exactly help me.

 

It is maddeningly frustrating.

[stevie_23]

I guess all you can do is post what you want to post and hope there will be at least SOME people here who WILL understand and be able to offer constructive and helpful responses.

 

You can't please everyone, and in this kind of place (full of emotional, love and relationship-related stuff), people WILL get offended and hurt because so many topics are sensitive or touchy or painful. But everyone's story is different, and every person is different, and the more we each post about our own feelings and experiences, hopefully the more understanding there will be. And I truly believe, with understanding comes learning and healing and moving forward to a happier place.

 

I was interested also to read about how not caring at ALL what others think can be dangerous or land you in jail or something. That's quite interesting, and I kind of agree to an extent.

 

I think it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE not to care at ALL what people think about you. Everything we do has some kind of reaction from someone or something, or we'd never really do a lot of what we do. There'd be no point cause it wouldn't impact on anyone else and thus have no result for us. I don't mean things that fulfill us internally, like passions and hobbys that provide satisfaction with no external validation. I mean everything in life that is kind of required to get us through ok...in your job, you HAVE to care what people think or else you could get fired. You HAVE to generally do something FOR someone else in order to get paid. All jobs offer a service or a product or something that others cannot do so YOU get paid to do it for them or give it to them. So if THEY don't like your service or your product? You're kinda screwed. That's just one example. It HAS to matter to get along ok in society, so most people DO care what others think of them, and that can unfortunately carry over into somewhat extreme ways like it affects you greatly what strangers on a bus think of you, what people on this forum think of you, what people you barely know on Facebook think of you, etc. There just needs to be a balance, that's all.

[AnotherRound]

I guess all you can do is post what you want to post and hope there will be at least SOME people here who WILL understand and be able to offer constructive and helpful responses.

 

You can't please everyone, and in this kind of place (full of emotional, love and relationship-related stuff), people WILL get offended and hurt because so many topics are sensitive or touchy or painful. But everyone's story is different, and every person is different, and the more we each post about our own feelings and experiences, hopefully the more understanding there will be. And I truly believe, with understanding comes learning and healing and moving forward to a happier place.

 

I was interested also to read about how not caring at ALL what others think can be dangerous or land you in jail or something. That's quite interesting, and I kind of agree to an extent.

 

I think it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE not to care at ALL what people think about you. Everything we do has some kind of reaction from someone or something, or we'd never really do a lot of what we do. There'd be no point cause it wouldn't impact on anyone else and thus have no result for us. I don't mean things that fulfill us internally, like passions and hobbys that provide satisfaction with no external validation. I mean everything in life that is kind of required to get us through ok...in your job, you HAVE to care what people think or else you could get fired. You HAVE to generally do something FOR someone else in order to get paid. All jobs offer a service or a product or something that others cannot do so YOU get paid to do it for them or give it to them. So if THEY don't like your service or your product? You're kinda screwed. That's just one example. It HAS to matter to get along ok in society, so most people DO care what others think of them, and that can unfortunately carry over into somewhat extreme ways like it affects you greatly what strangers on a bus think of you, what people on this forum think of you, what people you barely know on Facebook think of you, etc. There just needs to be a balance, that's all.

 

That's the secret - it's not about living your life for others. Of course we all have people in our lives that we want to "like" us or whatever. I have a few select people in my life whose opinion really matters to me. Because I know that they are good people and know me well enough to point out when I'm being illogical. I do not, however, take the input of everyone I come across seriously - why would I? I mean, I have no idea what those people are like or whether or not their opinion is worthy. I can tell pretty quickly if someone is logical and intelligent and a critical thinker - those are the people I listen to. The others? Eh... Everyone can talk, everyone can have an opinion - but I'm not going to change course or base my life off of everyone else, nor let them convince me the sky is green when I KNOW it's blue (and some do try!).

 

So I agree with you that there is some balance. To each his own. I think for me though, the double standards thing is super frustrating because it is such an illogical stance. To believe that something is always one way and never the other shows, imo, a real lack of understanding of how the world truly works. I like to approach something from all angles - I have no idea usually initially which angle is correct - but I want to consider all possibilities. Not pigeon hole myself into one way only so that I cannot even consider all the other possibilities. When I see someone doing this, I imagine a child with their fingers in their ears singing loudly - anything to avoid seeing or hearing something that upsets your apple cart. Sometimes, the world is upsetting - I don't ignore that possibility - to me, that would be emotional and learning suicide. I take it ALL in. At some point, in most situations, the truth becomes clear - and the other possibilities are deemed untrue - but until then, I don't want to be blindsided simply because I refused to consider everything.

[stevie_23]

I'm the same. I am very open minded and really enjoy working out the reasons for people's behaviour and feelings, and there is SUCH complexity in this world and in the various interactions we experience, if you're closed off and narrow minded or judgemental or too concerned with what others think about you (and all of those things are related and stem from the one source, which is fear / threat), you're simply going to be like that child with your fingers stuck in your ears, saying LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! What's the point?