extremely mixed messages from close friend/colleague

[JamaisVu]

I've recently broken up with a 5 year GF and turned to my close friend and colleague for help getting through the tough times. Well, she certainly "helped" me--just not in the way I expected.

 

We've known each other and worked together for 4 years and during that time we were both always in a relationship (never single). Just before I broke up with my long time GF, she had confided in me that she'd been having serious sexual problems with her 7 yr BF, to the point at which she couldn't get an orgasm, etc....

 

Well to make an extremely long story short, within 2 meetings with her after the breakup (coming back from abroad), we found ourselves sitting in a dark bar at 1 am making out, her jamming her tongue down my throat when we were both drunk. After about an hour of hard core making out, I took her back to her place and dropped her off, my head spinning from the evening. The funny thing is, the whole night before this she was telling me how I'm like family, just like a brother, it's great that we'll never have sex, etc...

 

We both pretended not to remember the evening when we saw each other at work the next few weeks--it wasn't awkward exactly--I think it was just a shock, and I think we were both excited with the secret of what we'd done. I noticed some subtle changes in her--her voice catching when talking to me, making up excuses to see me, etc...

 

Anyways, last night it happened again, we made out for around 7 hours total, over the course of a bar and a club. When she's drunk she's shoving her tongue down my throat, biting my tongue when I kiss her, and even pushing my hands down to her ass and asking why I wasn't feeling her body. She's asking me where I've been for 4 years? But then she started to sober up and went cold on me, telling me "This is making me sick to my stomach." and "It's so wrong--you're like my brother" and "I kiss my girlfriends all the time and this is like that" and she didn't feel attraction between us and so on. But I got bold and I kissed her sober after that and then she said she wanted to leave at around 4:30 am.

 

She's got a boyfriend but it's been her initiating these makeout sessions with me after drinking, even though she keeps saying "I'm like a brother". Then she sobers up and acts disgusted at herself and me. What's going on here? I especially want female perspectives on this.

[TaraMaiden]

In vino veritas. In wine, there is truth.

With alcohol, her inhibitions are down and I guess she's expressing her true intentions. Sober, suddenly she's all self-righteous and proper, remembering her BF, and your positions at work.

 

personally, I'd keep her drunk. It's when she's most honest....

 

You need to confront her when she's sober and tell her, either you two have a thing going and she dumps her BF, or it's never going to happen again, because you can't stand this hot 'n' cold schytt she keeps blowing.

 

YOU know it happens.

SHE knows it happens.

No point pretending....

 

What is it she wants, exactly? Because she can't have it all ways.....

[JamaisVu]

Do you really think confronting her would be the best option? It's not as though I feel in some kind of hurry to make her "decide" on me or him--after all, I've known her for 4 years as being with him and that kind of strong ultimatum seems a bit absurd after all this time. I guess I'm more wondering what to make of the whole "You're like my brother" or "I don't think of you like that" line she keeps throwing at me when she's sober and then goes for it full on when she's drunk. Is she just really conflicted or only finds me attractive when she's drunk or what? Are these mixed messages just a normal part of transitioning from friends to lovers? I'm not used to being with this type of woman--wine soaked, sex-obsessed, and ultra emotional.

[TaraMaiden]

Look.

You are seriously messing with her, even though you know she has a BF.

 

Nobody's holding a gun to your head and MAKING you let her stick her tongue down your throat, as you so delicately put it () so either man up, resist her overtures and act like a friend and not like a rabbit in headlights - or get her to come clean and explain herself.

 

But you're into this as much as she is.

 

While you hit the ball back, she's going to keep swinging it.

[JamaisVu]

After she sobered up, we did talk about it with her saying "I don't know why I'm acting that way when I'm drunk with you", "I don't have those kind of feelings for you", and "you're like a brother, don't kiss me on the mouth" and "I'm secretly only attracted to guys I don't like". But she is the one who kisses me when she has one too many and it goes on for hours, getting more and more intense. What I want to know is whether what she's saying sober is actually possibly true despite the way she's suddenly coming on to me drunk?

 

I want to understand the way she's acting before I decide how to respond.

 

Would any women out there act like this and if so why?

[TaraMaiden]

To be perfectly honest with you - WHY she's acting that way, is not your business.

 

First of all, it's in her head, and probably, she's not 100% sure either. But she surely must be experiencing some confusion. Heck, half the time she's drunk. The other half she's sober. Those are two diametrically opposite states and confusion is bound to arise!

 

But one thing is abundantly clear: You have to stop playing into it.

 

You merely add to that confusion.

You mess with her knowing she has a boyfriend.

You actually enjoy it. Of course you do. Having a drunken woman throw herself at you and seduce you is something you get a kick out of.

 

But it's drunk. And it's wrong.

And if you're more sober than she is, you have to quit, because it's not decent behaviour.

it doesn't matter why she does it, or whether other women do it.

 

She's doing it.

you have to stop encouraging it, or permitting it to happen.

 

Maybe if you stop responding, she will come to her senses, the cloud will lift and she will see more of what's happening.

[sweetheart5381]

To be perfectly honest with you - WHY she's acting that way, is not your business.

 

First of all, it's in her head, and probably, she's not 100% sure either. But she surely must be experiencing some confusion. Heck, half the time she's drunk. The other half she's sober. Those are two diametrically opposite states and confusion is bound to arise!

 

But one thing is abundantly clear: You have to stop playing into it.

 

You merely add to that confusion.

You mess with her knowing she has a boyfriend.

You actually enjoy it. Of course you do. Having a drunken woman throw herself at you and seduce you is something you get a kick out of.

 

But it's drunk. And it's wrong.

And if you're more sober than she is, you have to quit, because it's not decent behaviour.

it doesn't matter why she does it, or whether other women do it.

 

She's doing it.

you have to stop encouraging it, or permitting it to happen.

 

Maybe if you stop responding, she will come to her senses, the cloud will lift and she will see more of what's happening.

 

Excellent advice Tara Maiden, as usual

[JamaisVu]

Thanks TaraMaiden for the advice (especially since you are the only person offering any). I know that basically what you're saying is right, but I still feel that knowing her as a friend for 4 years, it would be good to get some insight into why she's suddenly acting completely differently with me (thought someone out there may be able to help me come to a better understanding of what this is all about). I am concerned that she may either be consciously or unconsciously doing this as either A. to make her 7 yr BF jealous and more passionate towards her or B. to demolish that relationship using this as an excuse.

 

I don't know if these are true, but my mind is running rampant with possibilities.

 

I wrote her a long email today, editing it many times, but couldn't press the send button because I don't know if it's exactly what I want to say or not. I'm also wondering whether it really is my responsibility to make the next move, seeing as though she knows that I've just broken up with my GF and has been kissing me anyways.

 

I hate all of this. Do you think a good idea would be to just not communicate with her until she seeks me out? I'm concerned that I was too forward with her the other night but then again she started it, and I gave her a clear chance to not invite me out on this night at all, and she was seriously pushing things when she was drunk.

[TaraMaiden]

Thanks TaraMaiden for the advice (especially since you are the only person offering any). I know that basically what you're saying is right, but I still feel that knowing her as a friend for 4 years, it would be good to get some insight into why she's suddenly acting completely differently with me (thought someone out there may be able to help me come to a better understanding of what this is all about). I am concerned that she may either be consciously or unconsciously doing this as either A. to make her 7 yr BF jealous and more passionate towards her or B. to demolish that relationship using this as an excuse.

 

I don't know if these are true, but my mind is running rampant with possibilities.

 

I wrote her a long email today, editing it many times, but couldn't press the send button because I don't know if it's exactly what I want to say or not. I'm also wondering whether it really is my responsibility to make the next move, seeing as though she knows that I've just broken up with my GF and has been kissing me anyways.

 

I hate all of this. Do you think a good idea would be to just not communicate with her until she seeks me out? I'm concerned that I was too forward with her the other night but then again she started it, and I gave her a clear chance to not invite me out on this night at all, and she was seriously pushing things when she was drunk.

 

OK.

You are still NOT getting it.

 

Your role in this is not to necessarily find out why she's doing it.

 

Your role is to prevent it from happening, and not agree to engineering situations where this happens.

 

Distance yourself.

Say nothing, refuse invitations and let her do the explaining, if any should be forthcoming at all.

Simply because you've been friends for 4 years, doesn't mean it's a healthy situation. Longer marriages have ended for less....

 

The situation is fraught with issues, and continuing is sheer stupidity.

Stop playing into it, deny intimate contact, refuse invitations.

She's indulging in an emotional affair, and you're the patsy.

 

Got it?

[tigerlily94]

JamaisVu - here's what I think:

 

There is obviously some romantic tension between you two. She is in a vulnerable + confused state (not that you aren't), but I think she is more intensely so.

 

I think she likes you and deep down is not in denial about it, but she obviously is wrestling with some conflicting feelings about that. When she drinks, she drops her inhibitions as well as her pretenses - which means the conflicting feelings/her own arguments with herself about you are exposed for you to see. The whole "oh, you're like a brother to me" and "this is like kissing women, I do that all the time" etc. stuff is her sharing with you the excuses + reasons she tells herself why she shouldn't pursue anything with you. But then, in the meantime, she is passionately making out with you because that's what she really wants.

 

Yes, it's confusing. Even moreso because I don't think you can discount her actions nor her words.

 

I definitely think you are the stronger person emotionally in this situation, and that you thus should be the one to blow the whistle and call a time-out on this happening again in the imminent future. I think separation is important for clarity. You'll have more honest breakthroughs + realizations when you're not caught up in the madness, and so will she. I think two weeks is a good amount of time to give each other some space and hopefully reach some inner peace on things. THEN you can revisit each other but not by jumping into making out again - by carefully and respectfully talking, and not drunkenly.

 

I know that all might read so lecturelike, but I mean it sincerely and with care. These things are tough enough without ongoing/current drama + alcohol influencing your thoughts + feelings!

[carhill]

I'm not used to being with this type of woman--wine soaked, sex-obsessed, and ultra emotional.

 

That's a trend you might wish to continue. One aspect to consider in this was the last time you got properly laid by a non-wine-soaked, non-sex-obsessed, non-ultra-emotional, non-involved with someone else woman. Process that.

 

I've dealt with this a lot, to the point of some MW's copping a feel on the sly in front of their H's just for titillation, so can empathize with your position. I've been celibate since divorced and sometimes this kind of stuff is hard (literally, since I'm old, not dead) but, man-to-man, you know what is right and what you have to do.

 

My instinct is that you are 'filler material' and that is a pretty demeaning place to put a friend, especially a long-time friend. Your side is that you're accepting the totality of treatment and words and refraining from asserting boundaries of propriety. Trust me, I know how hard that is. It's the 'd@mn, I can't let this one slip by' syndrome most men have running in the background, even if they don't admit it openly.

 

Unless she's an alcoholic, her actions while sober/not drinking are her truth. That they vacillate wildly from sober to drinking is a canary of a potentially incompatible relationship/personality characteristic. I've seen this most markedly in alcoholics and have had more experiences with such dynamics than I care to remember.

 

Be kind, but step away. That's my advice. Good luck.

[kamani]

Is she still with her boyfriend? Your original post mentioned something that she had a breakup and then again something like she's with her bf.

 

I have never consumed alcohol, so I can't tell you about the influence of it.

 

Are you in love with her? It sounds as if you like her more as a FWB, than a girlfriend. Yet it's wrong if she's still with her bf.

 

From what you've written this is my understanding. She desperately wants to have sex with you, may be she loves you even, but she backs off due to one of these two reasons.

 

1. She's still in a relationship.

2. In the making out sessions, you didn't make a move to go further and have sex. So she feels rejected and her self esteem is harmed. She lies to herself and you using the excuse 'You are like a brother to me'.

 

I'm sure she doesn't treat you as a brother, even as a friend. How can it be?

[JamaisVu]

Thanks TigerLily and Carhill for your input. Yes, she does have alcohol issues but it's really hot/cold. For example, she can go out and not drink at all, but if she does drink, she can get to the point where she collapses in public. The funny thing is she said she doesn't often get to the point of drinking until collapse unless she's with me.

 

I simply cannot imagine her acting this way unless it means something significant because we are and have been such close friends for so long and she knows I've just broken up with my long term GF. We haven't talked now for 4 days and I'm pretty sure we have no idea what to say to each other. I know it's normally not considered good if there's no ability to be open with each other sober, but I have to admit I'm enjoying the craziness that ensues when we're drinking together these days. It's going to be very hard to resist if this happens again. I trust this girl so much that I've just been following her lead on this. Am I crazy? Maybe I'm figuring that at some point she'll have to bring all of this up sober...

[imtooconfused]

She sounds like someone I used to know. It's pretty scary with the hot and cold behavior and not something I would wish on anyone.

 

It's kind of hard to put the genie back in the bottle though after those heavy makeout sessions. All the more reason to step back to "just acquaintances" for a while.

[WordvAction]

OK.

You are still NOT getting it.

 

Your role in this is not to necessarily find out why she's doing it.

 

Your role is to prevent it from happening, and not agree to engineering situations where this happens.

 

Distance yourself.

Say nothing, refuse invitations and let her do the explaining, if any should be forthcoming at all.

Simply because you've been friends for 4 years, doesn't mean it's a healthy situation. Longer marriages have ended for less....

 

The situation is fraught with issues, and continuing is sheer stupidity.

Stop playing into it, deny intimate contact, refuse invitations.

She's indulging in an emotional affair, and you're the patsy.

 

Got it?

 

Read this over and over again.

[sweetheart5381]

All I can hear in this thread is how 2 friends of 4 yrs cannot communicate at all.

 

If you cannot simply ask the other friend what is going on and get an honest answer, then distance yourself. Friends, 101. It doesn't matter if sex/making out is on the table, you should be able to talk about this stuff openly. Hell, I refuse to make out with or have sex with a man unless I believe he is my friend first.

 

Talk to her. If you don't buy her story let her go.

[cipherblaze]

Everyone here has already said it, but you really need to talk to her. You need to be able to discuss things honestly with your friend, for your sake and hers.

[JamaisVu]

I finally discussed all of this with her tonight openly for the first time and she basically is either completely aghast at the way she's been acting with me drunk or was just acting shocked and disgusted by it. She said we are just friends and that's it--I basically said "Of course we are friends, but you know I can't stop you from jamming your tongue down my throat when you're drunk, and you've got to have self control." It's clear to me that she's confused about her actions, but she's insisting sober that she doesn't feel this way toward me and that she's struggling herself to understand why she's suddenly all over me. My question is this (and I would hugely appreciate any insight on this):

 

1. Is it possible to for someone to "suddenly" develop sexual feelings toward someone after 4 years of not having them? (I can't know what's in her mind, so can't know for sure she didn't have them before.) She actually said "If I wanted you, I wouldn't have waited 4 years, I would have had you in 4 weeks". (This is absurd of course because I never would have cheated on my GF with her). Could this be triggered by my suddenly becoming single, as we have never been physical before, although she has suggested sexual things to me before (always really wasted).

 

2. What does it mean that she's saying sober, "I don't feel that way about you" (very convincingly), but is aggressively sexual with me drunk?

 

Anyone else dealt with this type of situation?

[tigerlily94]

JamaisVu, in answer to your questions, here's my take...

 

"1. Is it possible to for someone to "suddenly" develop sexual feelings toward someone after 4 years of not having them? (I can't know what's in her mind, so can't know for sure she didn't have them before.) She actually said "If I wanted you, I wouldn't have waited 4 years, I would have had you in 4 weeks". (This is absurd of course because I never would have cheated on my GF with her). Could this be triggered by my suddenly becoming single, as we have never been physical before, although she has suggested sexual things to me before (always really wasted)."

 

I don't think people "suddenly" develop sexual feelings - I think sexual attraction can be dormant though and if people aren't open to something, they won't be made conscious of them or otherwise dismiss them. I think now that you're single, her being aware of that status may have made you more aware to her as a possibility. She may have had a latent attraction to you...and of course, alcohol removes inhibitions. So I think that her drunken actions + confessions are perhaps a bit more *intense*, there is some honesty to them. It doesn't mean that's what she wants with her head+heart, but there is some truth in there.

 

 

"2. What does it mean that she's saying sober, "I don't feel that way about you" (very convincingly), but is aggressively sexual with me drunk?"

 

It means she feels some degree of regret or shame about her behavior while drunk. I think some of the shame or regret could be alleviated if you two were sexual without as much alcohol involved...or if you two spent more time together NOT drunk, but having a happy/positive/fun time - sexual or not. I think it would give you more insight into each other.

 

She is behaving like some sort of Jekyll/Hyde between sober/drunk - but she is the same person and must reconcile her actions and her feelings. If she is aghast/horrified (or acting aghast/horrified), why does she keep putting herself in that situation? I would also ask her if there is anything you can do to help her sort these feelings out and reiterate your interest in her , but that you want her to feel good about things and that you're willing to be there for her.

 

She's clearly aware of her alcohol issues, but she allows these situations and thus on some level trusts you (and/or herself) enough to get drunk in your presence. Hmm...

[pcplod]

She's confused and conflicted and is luxuriously wallowing in it with your abeyance and complicity. At the moment she has no intention or thought to putting a stop to it because it feels good to be so far out of control and not wanting or needing to feel in control, knowing that when she sobers up she can chastise herself for whatever guilt she feels, whether real or imagined.

 

She is controlled predominantly by her own impulses fuelled by copious amounts of alcohol that lowers her inhibitions and self-restraint. She doesn't understand herself, but then she doesn't actually want to understand herself because they would mean posing some awkward questions to herself that she would probably prefer to avoid.

 

Look, I am simply guessing, but I rather suspect that this will not end on a happy note for either of you when it does inevitably end. I'm imaging drunken banging on your door at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning, pleading for forgiveness, asking you to take her back, etc, etc. I've seen it happen. Do you fancy some of that?

 

She said to you that she was experiencing sexual difficulties with her current boyfriend but it is probably more than that, ie relationship difficulties and I am willing to bet she plays her own fair part in all of that. Guessing, but as good as it gets.

[JamaisVu]

Appreciated to those who've been offering advice. I guess part of my problem is that I myself don't know exactly what I want from the situation. It would definitely be attractive to me to try being with her on a more than friendship basis, but this would probably have to mean her breaking up with her current boyfriend of 7 years, which she would probably hold against me somehow. What seemed to be fun, sexy, and exciting the 2 times this has happened are at the moment giving me more negative feelings than positive. I don't like the fact that she can't admit having feelings for me more than friendship. It seems obvious to me that she wouldn't be making out with me for hours and pushing me to feel her up if she wasn't attracted to me in some way but she won't admit it.

 

At the moment I'm in the mood just to break off contact with her but my feelings are always changing so I don't know if I'll do that or not. It's so stupid of her to have started this sexual contact with me if she really doesn't want it to go anywhere, especially right after my breakup. We could have stayed extremely close friends and I would have been ok with that. But now I'm left wondering what could be and why she decided to go down this road.

[tigerlily94]

Any update on this, JamaisVu?? Where do things stand now?

 

If nothing's changed, I would tentatively recommend a little No Contact action. Draw some line or boundary for her - in a neutral or gently/kind way, and then retreat. Let her miss you + start to want you again...and let her reach out.

 

Some distance between you two for now might be a relief, too.

[JamaisVu]

She's out of town for around 10 days which has given me time to think things over. I'm going to take your advice Tigerlily and let her be the one to approach me when she comes back.

 

Despite really enjoying our makeout sessions, part of me wishes we had never done it if it wasn't going to lead to anything more. She had been my closest friend here and was going to be the one to help me through my break-up. The situation is just all ****ed up now and I'm at a loss for how to proceed with her. I can't believe how idiotic of her it was to start kissing me, and even more so if she really doesn't have those kinds of feelings for me like she says.

 

I'm starting to think though that she may just be saying that to alleviate some of the guilt she's feeling about cheating on her BF--after all, if she has no feelings for me, then making out doesn't mean anything right, and therefore it's not really cheating. Or at least I think that's what she's telling herself.

 

I'm just disappointed with her entire approach to me since my breakup. Not fun realizing your friend is not who you think they are.

[tigerlily94]

It's been nearly a month - I'm curious to hear an update on your situation...and happy to listen or help. Please let us know!