Marriage Blahs

[Glowy sun]

I'm not really in crisis mode. I just wanna hear from other people who have gone through marriage and divorce and see what you all have to say.

 

My wife and I are teetering on the edge. My wife and I opened up our relationship last year after she cheated on me. We both wanted to explore more because we hadn't had very much experience outside each other. She hadn't been much interest in sex for a few years before.

Well we closed our marriage back up after I fell in love with another woman and my wife and I almost separated. Lots and lots of drama. Now we've been back to just being with each other for the past three months and we've been in counseling for five.

Our relationship has been...ok. Nothing special. It mostly feels like it did before all this happened. Very blah. We've just started having sex again. But it's maybe once a week or every other week and very cautious sex, like we don't want to set anything off. And my wife has wanted a lot of "alone time" away from me. After I broke things off with the other woman, my wife talked about how she wanted to be independent. In the meantime I've been doing nice loving things for her, romantic gestures to try to show her how important she is to me. Our therapist says that my wife suffers from self esteem issues and that a lot of her actions from cheating and opening up the relationship were a desire for attention, so I've been trying to give her that while also giving her the space she needs as well.

 

At this point I'm not sure where this all heading. From those who have been there, does it seem like we are heading towards divorce or reconciliation?

[carhill]

Welcome to LS

 

Have you tasked your counselor to assist in an accounting of your marriage? Clarifying the positives and negatives and weighing them against the love and/or commitment which remains?

 

Have you considered a managed separation with a fidelity agreement and perhaps a change in professional therapy to address your separate issues?

 

TBH, if a marriage appeared to be over, this would be the one. Sometimes one just has to let go. Of course, you know your dynamic best. I've been on the outside looking in on a couple of similar M's since my D and I must admit I'm glad I'm single. Good luck.

[Glowy sun]

Welcome to LS

 

Have you tasked your counselor to assist in an accounting of your marriage? Clarifying the positives and negatives and weighing them against the love and/or commitment which remains?

 

Have you considered a managed separation with a fidelity agreement and perhaps a change in professional therapy to address your separate issues?

 

TBH, if a marriage appeared to be over, this would be the one. Sometimes one just has to let go. Of course, you know your dynamic best. I've been on the outside looking in on a couple of similar M's since my D and I must admit I'm glad I'm single. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the Welcome!

 

We've definitely been clarifying the positives and negative with the counselor. Actually most of our sessions have been separate so far, although now that things have quieted down, we're starting to do more joint sessions.

 

The counselor said that nothing would really come into focus until we gave up our "extra" lovers and given a few months to settle down. And she was right. I really think that separating at our crisis point a few months ago would have been a terrible idea (especially since my wife was talking of moving to another state). A rash decision made under emotional duress. But I'm not sure that anything has become clearer by this point, although we are happier with each other. I guess I am trying to be patient. I wouldn't want to stay married if things stayed the way they are right now (which isn't terrible, just a bit blah). But I'm willing to give things a chance to get better.

 

A more managed separation might be a better idea. We talked about it before but it didn't seem like it would work since we both don't want to stay in the city we currently live in (which is why my wife was talking of leaving). But now that we've made more of a commitment to each other, maybe we don't have to take such drastic steps like moving.

[dichotomy]

I am always curious about open marriage events.

 

Is/has she been setting the tone for the sex with you - or are you? You seem to be hinting she is sexually blah with you. So how was her sex life with others? Or was that hidden from you?

 

You seem to indicate it got better for you outside of the marriage (love with another).

 

Trying to understand who you are with and without each other - sex, passion, happiness.

Edited March 18, 2013 by dichotomy

[Mr. Lucky]

Well we closed our marriage back up after I fell in love with another woman and my wife and I almost separated. Lots and lots of drama. Now we've been back to just being with each other for the past three months and we've been in counseling for five.

Do you have children? What caused you to choose your marriage over the other relationship? And did you open your marriage to somehow balance the scales with your wife for her affair?

 

Mr. Lucky

[stevie_23]

To me, it sounds more like you and her love each other but are sort of trying to cling onto a relationship that just isn’t going to make both of you happy…

 

Obviously I don’t know everything, and maybe you two CAN somehow find a way to BOTH get your needs fulfilled by each other so you’re happy together, but…firstly, you went into an open marriage. So you were no longer “enough” for each other in all ways and you wanted more (I know this is a very black & white statement, but I’ve been in an open relationship myself and this is how I saw it when I made myself finally face the reality of what it was), and then you fell in love with someone else…and I applaud you for ending that and re-committing to your wife to see if you could work things out…do you REALLY believe you were in love with the other woman? Was it very hard for you to end things with her? Do you still think of her? Would you PREFER to still be in an open marriage or ideally, would you want to only be with your wife but to be happy and excited with her and only her?

[CarrieT]

What are your ages? It is important...

 

I got married at 20 and a few years into our marriage, we both decided we wanted an open marriage because we hadn't had the opportunities to experience other people. It failed miserably and we were divorced at 25.

 

By the time I got into my 30s, I met a lot of people who were having open marriages and now that I am approaching 50, feel confident that I can heartily advise against open marriages unless you are mature (in age and experience) and very, very open about sharing and discussing EVERYTHING.

 

Yes, a marriage IS "blah" unless you both work hard to make it otherwise. You can't just expect it to return to the romance stage unless you reignite all those things and reasons that brought you two together in the first place.

[ver13]

Why do you want to stay M? The reason that I'm asking is because if you want to have other sex partners just go do it and end the M. Why go to a MC and sit there talking about something that you really are not going to commit too. M is a complicated adventure to say the least I've been doing it for 20+. I stay because my W is my best friend and I treat her like the grilfriend that she will always be to me. My first M was quite different we both needed to explore and find out who and what we wanted and it wasn't each other. There is no such thing as open M it's just two people refusing to commit fully to each other. This is okay not all people need to be M to have a wonderful time here on this earth. If you are both not ready to do the M thing with all that it entails now is the time to move on.

[Glowy sun]

Thanks for the responses everyone. It is nice to be able to talk to folks about this.

My wife and I are about to turn thirty. No children. We've been together for ten years and married for five. She went outside the marriage because she wanted to explore sexually, specifically domination and submission. She had tried with me and after a couple successful go rounds she suddenly decided that she just didn't see me that way. That she needed someone that she was less intimate with. This was the hardest element to take because I had always thought our sex life was pretty dull (she would resist attempts to change up our sex life before) and i wanted to explore as well. We decided to open up our marriage because we'd thought being together for ten years we had a strong enough relationship that it would work. Plus we told each other everything. Looking back that was pretty foolish after an infidelity. I was afraid she would leave me to find something that fulfilled her more. Instead a month later, I was the one falling in love with someone else (although my wife developed a pretty strong attachment to someone else too).

The connection to the other woman caught me off guard. I hadn't developed feelings like that for someone that fast and strong ever before, not even with my wife (which developed more slowly over the course of a year). The attachment and the sex were much better with the outside people. You could say of course it would be with someone you've only been with a couple months vs ten years.

The reason I ended it with the other woman (and it was extremely hard and i still miss her) was that I felt my feelings for her were distorting my perception of my marriage. I felt like I wasn't giving my wife a chance. The blame game has stopped, but I'm still unsure about the marriage. It's been ok but the sex will be a stumbling block for sure. I'm willing to say for now we're just being cautious around each other. But I definitely don't want to resign myself to boring infrequent sex the rest of my life, although I'm definitely done with open relationships. The amount of juggling and jealousy was way too much to handle. Props to those who can distance themselves enough to do it, but I don't have those skills.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Glowy sun

[Glowy sun]

New update to anyone who might care to read. Things were going relatively well and we have been relatively conflict free the last couple of weeks until last night. I had a bit of a downer weekend because there's a music festival ive wanted to go for years and the other woman (who had never even heard of it before she met me) had told me she was going a few weeks ago. My wife is not the type of person who would do something like that and I told her I wished she was the type of person to enjoy that. She said she had no problem with me going by myself. I said I didn't know of anyone to go with and soon the argument devolved and I (stupidly) brought up that she would still like an open relationship. It was a low blow. Our sex life is still pretty lacking. We've been having it about once a week. The couple times she has initiated it have been satisfying but mostly it's been a "just get it over with" proposition. When we talked to our therapist about she said she was fine having awkward sex once a week from now on! The therapist says that if the quality of the sex gets better then the quantity won't matter and tasked her with trying to find wayside of exploring her sexuality to make it more satisfying but I'm not sure if she has been doing that or not. I know she can get plenty turned on still because she had no problem with the other guys. Meanwhile, she's been getting plenty of the alone time she wants because I have met some new friends and have been going out more. She seems bored the times she has gone out with me and says she would be fine just seeing friends every other month or so (a reversal from when we were in college and she was a lot more social). She says she doesn't do anything different when she's alone than what we normally do, she just likes not having to worry about what anyone else likes. I dunno, it feels isolationist to me. So are we making progress or digging more of a hole for ourselves?

[dichotomy]

No kids, no obligations, you both had sex with outsiders during your marriage... that's way better.... or kinkier than with each other... she won't even put her own needs/wants aside to join you for a concert that YOU would really enjoy and like her company.

 

Why are you married? What do you bring to each other? How do you give, or put the needs of the other above yourselves, how are you helping each other grow?

 

In other words whats the upside to staying married. What is good about it? I get the downside stuff.

 

and yes for married folks - especially long time married folks, once a week is not out of the norm, in fact its probably average (add kids and probably less). And the therapist is right we have been consoled in the past to have sex - even awkward - lets just do it sex...to keep the "sexual wheels greased and rolling" between more fun sexual episodes. Fake it till you make it. Its sometimes not fun - and more like work, but then that's marriage.

Edited April 15, 2013 by dichotomy

[Object_a]

This sounds so similar to me and my ex it's spooky. Even the ages and time married are the same.

 

My advice is that if you continue dragging this out it's just going to cost you a lot of time and agony that you could spend moving on. It's almost impossible to rebuild the connection after you have both started seeing other people. The sexual side of things will become a huge source of resentment for you and to be honest when the sex dries up it's because the woman has emotionally checked out of the relationship already.

 

My ex and I tried all this stuff but we realised very early on that we couldn't or wouldn't be able to go back to how things were. We were too scared of being alone to separate but we didn't really want to be together either. We were just trying to have our cake and eat it too. I can only recommend giving some serious thought to cutting your losses by ending this relationship sooner rather than later. It will be far better in the long run.

[Glowy sun]

Thanks for the responses. Once a week is probably the norm for long termers. It represents a compromise on our part somewhat. I don't really believe that when the woman stops having sexual desire she's checked out of the relationship because I think sexual connection and emotional connection aren't one and the same.

There's a lot good about us. I enjoy being with her more than anyone else and we live with each other well. I don't know if we are still growing together though. I want to grow and explore but I feel like she is comfortable where she is and doesn't feel any pull, at least not with me.

As to whether to call it quits, well as far as I'm concerned I feel like we're in a nothing to lose stage. It feels like we've plateaued though. Is it even possible to get a higher connection at this point? I want a life partner not a really great friend.

[Mr. Lucky]

I want a life partner not a really great friend.

That's funny because the thing I prize most about my wife is that she's been a really great friend .

 

The segmented comparisons you're making would be like contrasting your wife's cooking with a great restaurant meal prepared by a talented chef. Anyone, given the budget and motivation, can get it up for a special occasion. But the reality is, if we're talking decades, that the context and priorities are different. Kindness, consideration, respect, regard, companionship and yes, friendship, matter as much as passion. And I'd offer that, over the course of years, passion can't exist outside those aspects.

 

You want a better sex life? Be better to each other. You're both putting the cart before the horse...

 

Mr. Lucky

[whichwayisup]

Need to ask why you are still talking to the exOW? You say you spoke to her a few weeks ago.. That has to stop completely otherwise what you feel or could feel for your wife won't happen because of what you feel for your exOW. hope you get that..

 

You and your wife both need to make time for one another. Go out on date nights and have fun! Laugh and try to reminise about the times you two were younger and when you started dating, before marriage.

 

Make out and be silly. Seriously, pick each other up at the bar, play that game, and make it sexy and fun! Even pull over to a darkened alley and have sex in your car! Spice it up and be creative!

 

The love is there, you both just need to dig down deep and put 100% effort in daily.

[sabre80]

Does anyone else notice (and I may have read the posts wrong) that the wife in this situation appears very manipulative.

 

Wife has affair and suggests open marriage.

Husband agrees

Husband gets attached to another woman

Open marriage gets closed up

Wife still wants her 'independence'

 

I read that as wife wants to sleep around but you have to stay monogamous. I would start checking out anytime a woman says she wants her independence. She is either currently in or laying the groundwork for an affair.

[Glowy sun]

Does anyone else notice (and I may have read the posts wrong) that the wife in this situation appears very manipulative.

 

Wife has affair and suggests open marriage.

Husband agrees

Husband gets attached to another woman

Open marriage gets closed up

Wife still wants her 'independence'

 

I read that as wife wants to sleep around but you have to stay monogamous. I would start checking out anytime a woman says she wants her independence. She is either currently in or laying the groundwork for an affair.

 

I'm fairly positive she's not currently having an affair. Although she has said she is worried she'll cheat on me, that was during the most stressful period right after I closed the relationship back up. I don't think she'd say the same thing today now that things have calmed down. She isn't the one advocating to monogamy now, I am. She still wants to have an open relationship someday but considering the result the first go round, I've taken that off the table.

 

For the earlier poster's suggestion of trying to spice things up, make out and have fun together, believe me I'm trying. It's just that my wife's idea of a good time is an evening watching Netflix. So it's been hard to really spice things up. She has been making a little effort to do more a few times, however. One problem has been that she says that she feels "like a piece of meat" when we have sex. So I've been pretty skittish about doing anything too sexual or coming off too aggressively. This is ironic because she was looking for that kind of sexual relationship with the other guys. She has admitted having a bit of Madonna/whore complex towards me.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Glowy sun

[Glowy sun]

Well, a few more weeks of therapy and I find that my marriage is still at a standstill. This is frustrating because I feel other parts of my life are improving. I'm getting out more and have been doing well in my job and getting freelance work. My mood overall has been better because of the above and my good friend Lexapro.

 

The counseling seems like it has mostly focused on our communication techniques the last couple weeks. Avoiding definitive statements like "You never" or "you always." And she has told us that we avoid conflict, which is true. I told my wife I was lonely for a good portion of our marriage and she said that it really hurt to hear that. That I should've told her before.

 

Actually we started to get to something this week in counseling before the conversation got switched to communication where our therapist told us that we've had a few months to settle down after closing the marriage. And we've compromised on most of our issues, sex, going out, etc. Now that we've compromised, can we live with the compromise. I dunno. I just want a wife with more energy. Who's more ambitious. Has more lust for life. And lust for lust. The only thing giving me hope now is that she has compromised a little on going out a bit. Is that just a last gasp or is it time to call a day?